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blankseplocked Eagle Going Extinct...
 
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.27 01:11:00 - [31]
 

The eagle still ranks as the ship with the second most kills on my kb profile. Confused

Crying or Very sad

Trader Hansen
Failure Assured
Posted - 2011.02.27 02:36:00 - [32]
 

The Eagle has always sucked. Moving right along...

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.27 09:34:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Selinate
Edited by: Selinate on 26/02/2011 20:09:55
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Hi. I do not know much about the history of balancing but if there are so much problems with balancing, why not CCP start from scratch in redesigning them?

The second time around should be easy because all ships have their roles. They only need to put some values into offense and defense and tweak on them. After all, their hulls are already defined.


The problem that not everyone realizes is that these given roles aren't always only affected by the stats of the ships themselves, but sometimes they're affected by other game mechanics also.

For example, just think of how many ways removing local would affect the covert ops, recon, and black ops ships.

This is why a simple rebalancing of the ships wouldn't help in every aspect. If you go down that route, then a re-balancing and redesigning of the entire game would be necessary. It's not worth it.

As for the eagle... I'm shooting for a zealot, so I don't really care Laughing


Yes, I agree with you that balance is not only affected by ships' stats but also modules.

The only point that I still hold strongly and I know you may disagree with me is about sometimes fixing balance requires a redesign.

Redesigning in this sense can be overhauling all ships and give them a good reboot. In addition to that, they can also make it a part of the balancing work to remove local.

It is no different than making a new forum, new character creator and all the wonderful features that CCP is planning for us.

Don't you all want a good, balanced, fun, interesting and exciting Eve? If you really do then moving forward is what we all should be doing.

Learn mistakes of the past and make a better future.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.27 09:38:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: mkmin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: mkmin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Hi. I do not know much about the history of balancing but if there are so much problems with balancing, why not CCP start from scratch in redesigning them?

The second time around should be easy because all ships have their roles. They only need to put some values into offense and defense and tweak on them. After all, their hulls are already defined.


It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.



Judging from responses on threads like this on a frequent basis on the forum do suggest that there are issues with balance in the game and maybe those that discuss about them may have a point.




This is your first MMO isn't it?


mkmin, no it isn't. I play WoW and Guildwars from time to time.

Templar Dane
Amarr
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:01:00 - [35]
 

What generation Jenny Spitfire is this? I lost count.

Commander TGK
Gallente
The Deep Space Armada
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:55:00 - [36]
 

...sounds like hybrids are progressively dying a little more each day. Look at the Rokh, or the Hyperion for example. They aren't horrible, but there's always better choices. Every ships should have a place. ESPECIALLY tier 3 BSs.

Cheekyhoe
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:57:00 - [37]
 

Hybrids need a fix then the eagle can rise again.

Seriously Hybrids just suck too much is all

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:58:00 - [38]
 

When I first started the game, I really couldn't wait to fly the Rokh and the Eagle... Then I learned how to play...

Currently flying Zealot's...Crying or Very sad

FIX HYBRIDS!

Josefius
Gallente
JOKAS Industries
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:36:00 - [39]
 

Bleh, I've done some missions with rails in my Mega and it didn't seem THAT bad, but yeah... Blasters kind of suck ass through a straw.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.27 18:40:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Josefius
Bleh, I've done some missions with rails in my Mega and it didn't seem THAT bad, but yeah... Blasters kind of suck ass through a straw.


Rails and blasters aren't bad until you use a different race's ships and weapon systems. Example: an apocalypse with short range weapons can out-DPS a megathron with any weapon. It's short range weapons can out-range the megathron's long range weapons in any non-hypothetical situation. That's just all kinds of wrong.

Imo, most hybrids can be pretty much fixed if sentry drones were able to move along with the controlling ship, and medium and small sentries were added. That would allow blaster boats to being applying damage at range, but still have the massive oomph blasters are meant to have at short range. It would let railboats apply the amounts of damage other racial ships can apply, without tying them down to one spot.

However, this thread being about Eagle, I don't fly them so I couldn't say.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.27 18:49:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Kuronaga on 27/02/2011 19:02:15
The eagle is garbage.

Quote:
an apocalypse with short range weapons can out-DPS a megathron with any weapon.


The megathron gets huge buffer on a cheap ship, 1500 dps and a heavy neut.

An apoc with 3 heat sinks might get around 1.1 to 1.2k with drones, implants, and overheating going on with pulses.

If you can't figure out how to use a megathron, stop playing eve.

Argus Greymoore
Gallente
Something for Nothing
Posted - 2011.02.27 19:12:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Templar Dane
What generation Jenny Spitfire is this? I lost count.


I think this is at least the third owner of the Jenny Spitfire account, as far as I can tell from the differences in personality over the years.

I miss the old Jenny. Sad

Hesperius
Posted - 2011.02.27 19:17:00 - [43]
 

I see the reprocessing plague has not hit the Eagles in Jita yet. Somebody save them!

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.27 23:40:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Mr Ignitious
Funny, I happen to know a couple of people who use it daily... It's use and function are narrow, but man it is quite entertaining =)


entertaining such as riding an unicycle instead of a skateboard or a sports bike.

Do you like to cruise on your bike at high speed and enjoy the sound of the powerful engine or maybe you prefer the joy of unicycle.

Eagle is very exciting, but if you see some in it, you may smile and think to yourself, what a funny guy, flying a stupid ship.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.27 23:42:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Cheekyhoe
Hybrids need a fix then the eagle can rise again.

Seriously Hybrids just suck too much is all


besides, caldari gunboats suck too, fail bonuses, fail fitting, no speed, no snipe, no tackle.

pick one... buffer pod.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.02.28 00:18:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Doddy on 28/02/2011 00:19:26
Its still a more practical ship than most of the electronic attack ships, and just as easily fixed. The eagles problem is nothing to do with hybrids either, its to do with its redundant double optimal bonus. Replace one with another damage/rof bonus a la zealot/munin and it would slot in with other sniper hacs fine (it would still have the longest range as well). Same applies to the Vulture, though as its primary purpose is always ganglinks it doesn't matter as much.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.28 00:38:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Opertone on 28/02/2011 00:42:02
Edited by: Opertone on 28/02/2011 00:39:36
eagle can be fun too

jump around space, here and there at slow speed, no control of what you are doing and performing rare stunts, such as killing pods interceptors and scaring carebears.

Achura circus back in town

now add that skill to eagle, doing nothing in empty local.


CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.28 09:26:00 - [48]
 

Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.


Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.02.28 11:52:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Doddy
The eagles problem is nothing to do with hybrids either, its to do with its redundant double optimal bonus. Replace one with another damage/rof bonus a la zealot/munin and it would slot in with other sniper hacs fine.


I make it that swapping an optimal bonus for a damage bonus would result in less DPS at 100 km, and a shorter optimal too?

Noisrevbus
Posted - 2011.02.28 13:16:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Doddy
The eagles problem is nothing to do with hybrids either, its to do with its redundant double optimal bonus. Replace one with another damage/rof bonus a la zealot/munin and it would slot in with other sniper hacs fine (it would still have the longest range as well). Same applies to the Vulture, though as its primary purpose is always ganglinks it doesn't matter as much.


If there's an issue with the bonuses, it isn't the dual range bonus as much as the combination of range and tank bonuses. You can compensate quite nicely with faction ammo (in fact, the Eagle is one of the few ships that could really utilize the current ammo balance of hybrids).

The real problem with the Eagle as a Sniper is A) fitting issues, not being able to devote all it's / the same amount of slots, to capitalize on it's bonuses and B) that as a result it's 1/4 slower than all other ships in the group, which when running fast HAC tactics means you get isolated and die.

The notion of a ship that can do just under 250 dps with superb tracking at typical ranges isn't that bad, but when you factor in that it will be so much slower than any other option, the nische of giving up some damage in favour of tracking isn't that appealing anymore.

As always with Hybrid platforms, fitting issues is the main culprit. Allowing it to cut back on one or two slots now filled by fitting mods (or not available to be filled by anything due to constraints) would allow it to double up on speed mods or close the speed gap at least a bit while putting it's range advantage to full use by extending it's lock range further.

The Vulture, well, at least it can fill up all it's remaining high slots with missiles - making hybrids a choice.

Brynhilda
Amarr
Massive PVPness
Posted - 2011.02.28 13:31:00 - [51]
 

Well, of course the Eagle is extinct. Mankind's entrance to the area and the loss of its major food source, the Moa, caused it to die out.

Willl Adama
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2011.02.28 14:25:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Willl Adama on 28/02/2011 14:26:17
Active HACS GO!
You may wanna check this out. One of the ships flown by garmon in this video is a faction fit active tanked blaster eagle!

Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.02.28 14:47:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Kuronaga
The Armageddon gets huge buffer on a cheap ship, 1500 dps and a heavy neut.

If you can't figure out how to use an Armageddon, stop playing eve.



Hesperius
Posted - 2011.02.28 17:59:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.



Ships and Modules eh...

So ships and modules, what do you guys think about the profitability in Jita for reprocessing Eagles? What is your take on reprocessing any T2 for profit?

... nice one spitfire.

Ghengis Tia
Posted - 2011.02.28 18:04:00 - [55]
 

Great! I will keep my Eagle in its hangar as a hedge against its extinction. I knew I'd find some use for it one day.


Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.28 19:55:00 - [56]
 

There are 2 ways an Eagle can become useful:
1) higher DPS, such as 5% ROF bonus in addition to 5% damage bonus (like Minmatar ships)
2) high alpha, such giving in a role bonus: 50% more damage, -33% rate of fire

Other than that, I can't think of anything that would make me want to fly one.

Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.02.28 20:07:00 - [57]
 

the last time sniper eagles were useful, was the time of 150-200km BS fleets. with changes to probing mechanics, these tactics stopped being viable.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:24:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: mkmin
Imo, most hybrids can be pretty much fixed if sentry drones were able to move along with the controlling ship, and medium and small sentries were added.


LOLwut? Fix hybrids by changing sentry drones?

Are you a CCP dev alt? Because I can't think of a real player coming up with an idea like that.

Tony SoXai
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:36:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Willl Adama
Edited by: Willl Adama on 28/02/2011 14:26:17
Active HACS GO!
You may wanna check this out. One of the ships flown by garmon in this video is a faction fit active tanked blaster eagle!


Exactly. It's not that Garmon is some "pvp god" (dont get me wrong he is the best) it's more that he isn't a narrowminded moron who believes everything he hears on the forum eg hybrids are totally and utterly and completely broken and useless.

Rick Chieve
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:39:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Perfect time to invest your Isk. Might take a while, but should get a nice return.


Just bought four the suckers today. ;)


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