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Hesperius
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:33:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Hesperius on 25/02/2011 21:52:22
A corp mate of mine discovered something very sad. The Eagle has become such a worthless ship, that it hit the value which the Eagles that could be bought off the market were profitable to reprocess.

Yesterday evening, Sinq Laison was cleaned out of all Eagles which could be reprocessed for profit. That T2 ever reaches this point is sad. I couldn't believe that it was happening, so I asked for fraps of one of the instances: vid.

It did happen. The Eagle is the flagship of deficiency in hybrids. Such a sad day... Sad

AFIK the other regions have not been hit yet. Someone with gobs of money please save the Eagles from extinction. CCP will one day fix hybrids

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:34:00 - [2]
 

Twisted Evil

Mr Ignitious
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:44:00 - [3]
 

Funny, I happen to know a couple of people who use it daily... It's use and function are narrow, but man it is quite entertaining =)

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:44:00 - [4]
 

I remember the glory days of Eagle.
I think it was around 2005

It was just half a year since t2 cruisers were released. It was before the 50% HP boost to all ships - which what really killed Eagle.

Eagle was my first really successful PvP ship. I used to roam around and insta-pop interceptors and frigs. Often times I'd be chased by gangs of 5-10 people, warping around the system and popping their tackler frigs at 40-80 km
Sometimes I could rack up up to 18 kills a day in sniper Eagle.

But after the 50% HP boost, the Eagle suddenly became worthless. I tried it, but it just didn't work. I tried it a few times years later, but it was clear that it's worthless.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:50:00 - [5]
 


Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:53:00 - [6]
 

There are 2 for sale now. And if you check the market you can see the daily shift is about 2 a day. Easy enough to buy. Just not really wanted. Just like many others.

The Eos got the same volume shifting as the Eagle for example.

Hesperius
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:55:00 - [7]
 

I have an Eagle and I have flown it as a sniper and a beagle. I almost lost it to a Rifter until my falcon friend saved me. I don't fly it anymore.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Shintai
There are 2 for sale now. And if you check the market you can see the daily shift is about 2 a day. Easy enough to buy. Just not really wanted. Just like many others.

The Eos got the same volume shifting as the Eagle for example.


I know. It's all that survived The Purges. Twisted Evil

-Liang

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.02.25 22:11:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
I remember the glory days of Eagle.
I think it was around 2005

It was just half a year since t2 cruisers were released. It was before the 50% HP boost to all ships - which what really killed Eagle.

...

But after the 50% HP boost, the Eagle suddenly became worthless. I tried it, but it just didn't work. I tried it a few times years later, but it was clear that it's worthless.


50% HP boost was the worst thing to happen to EVE imo.

Not only did it kill Eagle, it made t1 cruisers practically worthless except for very specific situations (ie too broke to afford a real ship), t1 frigates basically cyno's with engines, and most HAC's (except ones that could get away with nano fit) far too situational to be of practical everyday use.

It was the day CCP gutshot solo PvP, and it's been dying a slow painful death ever since

The reason for this is exactly what the vets at the time said it would be.
They said ships would take too long to kill with equal class (god forbid you should try to take on a larger ship), therefore the victim would be able to survive long enough for his friends to arrive in system and save him.
Therefore to prevent getting killed by your victim's blob, you don't bother going solo, you go out with a big enough blob to start with so you can kill em before their mates arrive.

Back then, I could use pilot skill and imaginative fitting to solo BC's, made short work of them in my gank ruppie.
Of course if I made a single mistake I would be quickly buttprobed and sitting in my pod.
HP Buff and rigs? heh, not even worth attempting the above scenario, BC will win 9 times out of 10.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2011.02.25 22:17:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Copine Callmeknau
Originally by: Ephemeron
50% HP killed eagle


50% HP boost was the worst thing to happen to EVE imo.




Dissagree completly.

EvE was improved massivly with the extra HP to make fights and tactics require more than more tracking enhancers and damage mods than the enemy, wihtout it we would have all the clever tactics we see today that were simply unessery before straight up slug fests.

CCPs error imo, was NOT reballencing the dps ships could do from ranges and weapon types, they kept it static. Why should the eagle for example, have LESS slots not a huge damage bonnus AND a huge range bonus but a special ability like -75% to BLASTER tracking to focus the role and keept it "dangerous from range" rather than the weaksauce LOL wagon it has become.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.02.25 22:18:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Hesperius
A corp mate of mine discovered something very sad. The Eagle has become such a worthless ship, that it hit the value which the Eagles that could be bought off the market were profitable to reprocess.


Being THAT extremely ugly I'm surprised anyone wants to fly it in the first place .. Rolling Eyes

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.02.25 22:52:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Copine Callmeknau
Originally by: Ephemeron
50% HP killed eagle


50% HP boost was the worst thing to happen to EVE imo.




Dissagree completly.

EvE was improved massivly with the extra HP to make fights and tactics require more than more tracking enhancers and damage mods than the enemy


Still is, 'cept now the number of damage mods you need exceeds the capacity of one ship, so you gotta bring a number of ships to get a quick kill.

Not sure exactly what you mean by tactics, but if you're simply talking about ewar that's not got anything to do with HP buff, ewar was completely reworked to become useful (and by useful I mean multispec ECM or NOS no longer an iwin button for all ships) in seperate patches.
You could have todays tactics if all changes went through except HP buff, you would simply require less ships on field to destroy any given ship/gang in a specific timeframe.

I'm talking strictly solo/small gang PvP here. Large fleet engagements are by definition blobby, and it didn't really change much there, BS got alpha'd out of the sky before, BS got alpha'd out of the sky after.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.02.25 23:43:00 - [13]
 

The Eagle has never been "good."
People are misremembering.

Yes it was the best sniper at one time - but even then sniping was a trick of sorts that really didnt matter.

Airu Naari
The Noxious
Posted - 2011.02.26 17:45:00 - [14]
 

I remember Frankinator sniping me with an Eagle regularly in lowsec around Tama like 5 years ago :D

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.02.26 17:58:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
The Eagle has never been "good."
People are misremembering.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.26 18:09:00 - [16]
 

Damned space-dioxins!

<reads more closely />

Oh, that… yeah. Sad. Crying or Very sad

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.02.26 18:12:00 - [17]
 

Perfect time to invest your Isk. Might take a while, but should get a nice return.

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.02.26 18:54:00 - [18]
 

Sniper HAC gangs wouldn't be the same without Eagle.

Darks Gambit
Posted - 2011.02.26 19:06:00 - [19]
 

Number of eagles sold on the 17th: 5
Number of zealots sold on the 17th: 100

Add in to that caldari outnumber amarr by what 2 to 1, plus the ease to cross train over from gallente due to shared weapon systems..

Eagle advantages: range
Eagle disadvantages: sig, speed, agility, power grid, low alpha, low dps, no drones, poor slot layout, poor lock speed.

It has a couple of nice tricks (faction ammo at range, massive spike range,) but you require bookmarks/ cloaky alt and you can move systems. Is specialised itself to extinction, I'm dubious if even a hybred boost will bring it back tbh.

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.02.26 19:08:00 - [20]
 

Confirming that CCP has finally nerfed an ship out of existence. Quick get this on all the mmo news sites.

Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
Posted - 2011.02.26 19:12:00 - [21]
 

Hooray for hybrid turrets. Sad

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.26 19:25:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Aessoroz
Confirming that CCP has finally nerfed an ship out of existence.
"Finally"?

At least the Eagle is flown, as opposed to, say, the EAFs. Crying or Very sad

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.26 19:29:00 - [23]
 

Hi. I do not know much about the history of balancing but if there are so much problems with balancing, why not CCP start from scratch in redesigning them?

The second time around should be easy because all ships have their roles. They only need to put some values into offense and defense and tweak on them. After all, their hulls are already defined.

Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.26 19:32:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Aessoroz
Confirming that CCP has finally nerfed an ship out of existence.
"Finally"?

At least the Eagle is flown, as opposed to, say, the EAFs. Crying or Very sad
or Black-Ops.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.26 19:43:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Hi. I do not know much about the history of balancing but if there are so much problems with balancing, why not CCP start from scratch in redesigning them?

The second time around should be easy because all ships have their roles. They only need to put some values into offense and defense and tweak on them. After all, their hulls are already defined.


It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.26 20:04:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: mkmin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Hi. I do not know much about the history of balancing but if there are so much problems with balancing, why not CCP start from scratch in redesigning them?

The second time around should be easy because all ships have their roles. They only need to put some values into offense and defense and tweak on them. After all, their hulls are already defined.


It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.


Well, I do not believe in such. To ask is to learn. To think of one as a fool for asking is as good as being folly.

Judging from responses on threads like this on a frequent basis on the forum do suggest that there are issues with balance in the game and maybe those that discuss about them may have a point.

Correct me if I am wrong, Eve is a game that has been through a series of ad-hoc upgrades. It means ships that were not present before then magically appear in game. Consequently, the action of adding new components causes disturbances to other components. This creates balancing problems.

Sometimes, you can fix balance issues that are caused by ad-hoc upgrades and sometimes, after too many series of ad-hoc upgrades, fixing issues that arise from those upgrades may be difficult.

When that happens, the best way to fix them is to redesign them from scratch with the original intentions in mind. It means, if Caldari is supposed to be a shield / missile / hybrids race then they can still be but their ships, equipment and weapons are changed accordingly.

Redesigning is also good because unlike a long time ago, CCP have access to all ships and can design them better with all available ships at their disposal.

When you are doing things ad-hoc, whenever you add something new, you are definitely going to disturb something else. This probably makes balancing difficult in this sense. It maybe explains why some things are better than the other or overly better.

mkmin, now where am I wrong when I suggest a redesigning may be the way forward.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.26 20:09:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Selinate on 26/02/2011 20:09:55
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Hi. I do not know much about the history of balancing but if there are so much problems with balancing, why not CCP start from scratch in redesigning them?

The second time around should be easy because all ships have their roles. They only need to put some values into offense and defense and tweak on them. After all, their hulls are already defined.


The problem that not everyone realizes is that these given roles aren't always only affected by the stats of the ships themselves, but sometimes they're affected by other game mechanics also.

For example, just think of how many ways removing local would affect the covert ops, recon, and black ops ships.

This is why a simple rebalancing of the ships wouldn't help in every aspect. If you go down that route, then a re-balancing and redesigning of the entire game would be necessary. It's not worth it.

As for the eagle... I'm shooting for a zealot, so I don't really care Laughing

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.26 20:21:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: mkmin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Hi. I do not know much about the history of balancing but if there are so much problems with balancing, why not CCP start from scratch in redesigning them?

The second time around should be easy because all ships have their roles. They only need to put some values into offense and defense and tweak on them. After all, their hulls are already defined.


It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.



Judging from responses on threads like this on a frequent basis on the forum do suggest that there are issues with balance in the game and maybe those that discuss about them may have a point.




This is your first MMO isn't it?

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.26 21:01:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Pod Amarr on 26/02/2011 21:07:12
Lets take a look at this

Zealot: Super dps at insane ranges with split second changges to optimal.
Sacriledge: I guess OK tanky has problems.

Vagabond: Hit and run good specialist
Munnin: Good in general considered 2nd best sniper hac after zealot.

Cerberus: It is ok with problems Delayed DPS but highest DPS at those crazy ranges
Most people are idiots and hate it.
Eagle: well see this thread

Deimos: See Die most
Ishtar: Drone boat with all its pros and cons has pve uses as well.

Conclusion:

In this you can see clearly the current bias of the gmae race design that is all over eve
Amarr or Minmatar or go away and come back when you crosstrain.
As far as HACs are concerned.

Long John Silver
Posted - 2011.02.26 21:19:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Hesperius
Edited by: Hesperius on 25/02/2011 21:52:22
A corp mate of mine discovered something very sad. The Eagle has become such a worthless ship, that it hit the value which the Eagles that could be bought off the market were profitable to reprocess.

Yesterday evening, Sinq Laison was cleaned out of all Eagles which could be reprocessed for profit. That T2 ever reaches this point is sad. I couldn't believe that it was happening, so I asked for fraps of one of the instances: vid.

It did happen. The Eagle is the flagship of deficiency in hybrids. Such a sad day... Sad

AFIK the other regions have not been hit yet. Someone with gobs of money please save the Eagles from extinction. CCP will one day fix hybrids


Do I mourn the Eagle's fall from popularity? Not at all. I never got round to flying one because there's plenty of other ships out there I can enjoy. And plenty of other ships you never see flown.





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