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Gewrixlera
Posted - 2011.03.01 15:16:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Boogaloo
Sounds like you and your jerrymandering cronies have got this whole thing stitched up.


Throwing around words that don't mean what you think doesn't make you look smart.

Originally by: Merrian Webster Dictionary
Gerrymander
  • to divide (a territorial unit) into election districts to give one political party an electoral majority in a large number of districts while concentrating the voting strength of the opposition in as few districts as possible
  • to divide (an area) into political units to give special advantages to one group <gerrymander a school district>


Goons can't Gerrymander the election. They can vote as a bloc, but so can any group of players with a cohesive membership and a candidate to stand behind. Fearmongering is for crappy U.S. news networks. Leave it there "Boogaloo".
Originally by: Captain'o'Captain
Now mitten's mighty "powerbloc" took somewhat 4 months to beat the same guys. I mean IT didn't even fight for delve. Now this is just my opinion, but it seems more like that mitten's coalition was kicking a dead dog, calling that a victory is just.. well... pathetic.


Do you even know how sov warfare works in either the present or past iterations? IT was a dead horse - but they owned Fountain, Delve, and Querious for months in that state, and the only reason they still don't is because the CF went and brought down the rickety framework holding up the IT scarecrow. Four months? I'm pretty sure the Fountain/Delve invasion started in January (or at most late December), that's two (at most three) months by those of us who still live on a Gregorian calendar, and the last month hasn't been filled with battles, it's been filled with mops and buckets.

On topic, I find the attitude of The Mittani refreshing, and no, my main isn't a Goon or a TESTie. If you paid attention to the blogs of the CSM V folks, and their attitudes even here in the forums, you would realize that his position is much closer to reality than the "I'm going to save LoSec for my Pirate Buddies" candidates. Although I think he'll still come back beaten down by the internal BS of a game development corporation, he's going to last longer than the others with the attitude he's got. In addition, Goons aren't here to ruin EVE. They claim to love playing the game. In fact, former Goons even work at CCP already, so their love of the game itself isn't in question. If you don't like the fact that nullsec is tired of being trod upon by an empire-focused CSM, that says more about your lack of understanding of a huge aspect of this game, than their desire to enjoy a game they pay to play.

Aerthan
Gallente
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.03.01 15:29:00 - [182]
 

I support this product and/or service.

Zati Pasirga
Posted - 2011.03.01 15:29:00 - [183]
 

Edited by: Zati Pasirga on 01/03/2011 17:04:32
Hello Mittani

I want to know why you hate free speech and democrazy and if you believe that your hate for free speech makes you a good CSM candidate?
Will you allow other goons to pick their goon-candidates in the future or will you continue to tell everyone who to vote like this year?
Will you allow other goons to write in the goonforum about their CSM campaign in the future or will you continue to threat them with a kick out of goonswarm because you hate free speech and democrazy?


EDIT:

Mittani, could you please explain why you destroyed the tradition of goon primary elections just to make sure that you can boost your ego on a 2nd class flight to iceland guaranteed?

Please explain why you support botting in the goon region and how you supporting botting could affect your CSM run and your relationship to CCP who are against botting?

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.01 15:58:00 - [184]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 01/03/2011 16:06:10
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
It's been stated multiple times that the CSM isn't for solving issues or really bringing them up with CCP (Again, the massive backlog). It's a sounding board that CCP bounces ideas off of.


The assertion that the CSM is nothing but a focus group is flat-out wrong. CSM is a stakeholder, a status given it by CCP. As such, the CSM has an obligation to be proactive--which can be very tough given the communications obstacles that must often be dealt with.

But the CSM being proactive CAN get results. Off the top of my head, a few examples: skill queue (CSM4), recent UI changes, prioritization crowdsourcing which prompted the allocation of Team BFF to spend the current development cycle fixing annoying potholes, and limiting of microtransactions to vanity items. The CSM pushed for these things convincingly and CCP responded positively (despite initial resistance in some cases). While such victories may not have been as frequent as we would have liked, CSM5 proved that proactive, professional behavior combined with appropriate pressure management can get **** done.

No doubt there are some within CCP that would prefer the CSM be just a focus group, but until or unless CCP diminishes CSM's status from stakeholder to focus group, proactive efforts to bring issues to CCP's attention and insistence on participating in discussion about how to address them is not only the CSM's prerogative as a stakeholder, but its obligation as a representative of the community.

Turina Hollow
Shiloh Technologies
NE CEDE MALIS.
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:26:00 - [185]
 

Mittani for CSM

The No BS approach is better than all the rest
Cool

Han Pos
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:30:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
The assertion that the CSM is nothing but a focus group is flat-out wrong. CSM is a stakeholder, a status given it by CCP.

Wait...people actually believe this?

Dacil Arandur
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:38:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Han Pos
Originally by: Mynxee
The assertion that the CSM is nothing but a focus group is flat-out wrong. CSM is a stakeholder, a status given it by CCP.

Wait...people actually believe this?


By "people" you mean the current chair of the CSM?
I'm thinking Mynxee would be in a pretty good position to know...

Gamer Gyrl
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:38:00 - [188]
 

The Mittani has my vote. He's an attractive and passionate man.

Largo Coronet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:46:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
holy god pause the thread everyone go look at this at first i was just 'who is this toolshed' and it opened up a yawning gulf of ever-increasing idiocy

there's poetry in there
I added 20 lbs. & an extra chin to my mental image of this person with every piece of poetry I read.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:47:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 01/03/2011 19:49:14
Originally by: Han Pos
Originally by: Mynxee
The assertion that the CSM is nothing but a focus group is flat-out wrong. CSM is a stakeholder, a status given it by CCP.

Wait...people actually believe this?


Let's just say that since CCP gave us the name, we were determined to try and play the CSM game accordingly--even severely hampered by a lot of factors that don't affect any other stakeholder group inside CCP and well aware of the differences between all of them and the CSM. It will be interesting to see how CSM6's take on "stakeholder" status shapes up after they take office and how they choose to leverage it...or not.

Orithien Veladorn
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.01 20:00:00 - [191]
 

I support this product and/or service...

... because, i, too, want a special Hulk that fires disco lasers while it mines. Razz

Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.01 20:00:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: Skunk Gracklaw on 01/03/2011 20:00:34
Originally by: Mynxee
It will be interesting to see how CSM6's take on "stakeholder" status shapes up after they take office and how they choose to leverage it...or not.


How could they leverage it? There is no mechanism in place to do so. The whole stakeholder thing is a meaningless gesture by CCP and in real-world terms it has zero effect on the future of the game.

Lady Spanky
Perkone
Posted - 2011.03.01 21:11:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Turina Hollow
Mittani for CSM

The No BS approach is better than all the rest
Cool



Shame that the 'No BS' approach Mittani desperately claims to have doesn't extend to being honest about the fact that he and his cronies are trying to stitch up the CSM for their own political interests.

But hey, if you're criminally gullible and want to believe him then more fool you. I don't thinks he's actually managed to clearly express what 'lies' he thinks the CSM has been telling to date...


Boogaloo
Posted - 2011.03.01 21:18:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Gewrixlera
Originally by: Boogaloo
Sounds like you and your jerrymandering cronies have got this whole thing stitched up.


Throwing around words that don't mean what you think doesn't make you look smart.

Originally by: Merrian Webster Dictionary
Gerrymander
  • to divide (a territorial unit) into election districts to give one political party an electoral majority in a large number of districts while concentrating the voting strength of the opposition in as few districts as possible
  • to divide (an area) into political units to give special advantages to one group <gerrymander a school district>


Goons can't Gerrymander the election. They can vote as a bloc, but so can any group of players with a cohesive membership and a candidate to stand behind. Fearmongering is for crappy U.S. news networks. Leave it there "Boogaloo".



Hi Mittens fanboi! Shame you only know one of the definitions of the word jerrymandering.

vb
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) to divide the constituencies of (a voting area) so as to give one party an unfair advantage
2. to manipulate or adapt to one's advantage


Haha, you look stupid on an internet forum!

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.01 21:19:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: The Mittani on 01/03/2011 21:20:05
Originally by: The Mittani
holy god pause the thread everyone go look at this at first i was just 'who is this toolshed' and it opened up a yawning gulf of ever-increasing idiocy

there's poetry in there


dear page seven: did you look at this yet?

Originally by: OhThis GuyAgain

So, when the rest of Eve looks at The Mittani running for CSM, and consider the benefits of voting you in, what should we be thinking about?


The purpose of my candidacy is to attempt to fix the CSM itself by trying to solve the CCP/CSM communication problems, either through chutzpah or bastardry, I'm not sure which. If you're a 'features' voter you're not going to vote for me; you're going to vote for some guy who will promise you features to be upvoted, which will promptly be upvoted into the backlog and forgotten.

What you might ask yourself is this: what nifty Empire-related features have already been upvoted by CSM1-CSM5 that are languishing in development hell because the CSM isn't an effective advocate?

Mynxee points out that the CSM is nominally a stakeholder in CCP's eyes. Yet in practice it is only treated like a stakeholder when it suits CCP to do so. That power could be grown into a real voice, depending on how it's played.

Originally by: Zati Pasirga
Hello Mittani

I want to know why you hate free speech and democrazy and if you believe that your hate for free speech makes you a good CSM candidate?
Will you allow other goons to pick their goon-candidates in the future or will you continue to tell everyone who to vote like this year?
Will you allow other goons to write in the goonforum about their CSM campaign in the future or will you continue to threat them with a kick out of goonswarm because you hate free speech and democrazy?

Mittani, could you please explain why you destroyed the tradition of goon primary elections just to make sure that you can boost your ego on a 2nd class flight to iceland guaranteed?

Please explain why you support botting in the goon region and how you supporting botting could affect your CSM run and your relationship to CCP who are against botting?


the idea of you vibrating with frustration as you mashed that out on your keyboard just brought a smile to my face; i can only hope that this reply equally enrages you

Originally by: Skunk Gracklaw
How could they leverage it? There is no mechanism in place to do so. The whole stakeholder thing is a meaningless gesture by CCP and in real-world terms it has zero effect on the future of the game.


off the top of my head:

personal lobbying of sympathetic devs
increasing dev/csm communication on both the csm forums and elsewhere
getting the forum mod rules changed such that discussion of csm-related activities aren't mired in this backwater subforum
media relations: spotlighting issues and problems the csm is encountering
crushing scandals and idiocy from the CSM itself so that they don't distract from the message

it's pretty easy for CCP to blow off the CSM if people are stockpiling thulium or trying to yoink corporate secrets, let's not delude ourselves by suggesting that past CSMs are 'perfect victims' of CCP

digi
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.01 23:50:00 - [196]
 

Edited by: digi on 01/03/2011 23:51:38
Edited by: digi on 01/03/2011 23:51:15
Edited by: digi on 01/03/2011 23:50:38
Dear Pubbies,

I can compare this years CSM election to a perilous time in American History where a subset of the population was discriminated upon for their lack of education, their cheap work ethic and even the color of their skin. This period of history was class warfare at its finest and two regions of the United States waged a terrible and costly war to settle on the right of the State to endure the law of the united republic where democracy was said to reign supreme.

This terrible war wages on at CCP and you, pubbies, are the slaves. Democracy has failed you, much like your forefathers. You are slave to a game about internet spaceships, this Eve Online. You are chained to its features, to its content, and to its bugs. When CCP fails you, you have no recourse except to sing your low sorrowful song. When CCP breaks the database, your cries for freedom go unheard. When the logs show nothing, you, dear pubbie, are powerless to redress.

Let our candidate empower you. Elect a Honest Mitten to stand on his no BS policy and declare your rights to CCP.

You deserve a great game. You deserve a real wage, not slavery. You need someone to stand up for you and fight for what is right. You need a Mitten that will unite this previously paralyzed circle of incompetents known as the CSM. The CSM can be strong with the right direction but all previous actions are for naught. I have analyzed the results of those attempts, I have seen what the previous councils have done for you. They have done nothing but appease your smallish immediate desires. If you want real change, you will elect someone strong, someone honest, someone who will not turn his back at Ford's Theater to receive a bullet to the head, but rather meet your adversaries head on with guns blazing while riding a bear made of spite and steel.

You need this. Put aside your trolling, put aside your anger, and channel true change for the game we all love, this cottonpicking Eve Online.



Kuar Z'thain
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.01 23:58:00 - [197]
 

Digital Herpes

Zati Pasirga
Posted - 2011.03.02 00:11:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Zati Pasirga on 02/03/2011 00:39:52
Hello Mittani

You accidently forgot to answer my questions, so i will summarize the most important ones:

1)Why do you think that the tradition of primary elections in goonswarm was bad and why you cancelled them to put yourself on #1?
2)Why you threat Kalrand with removal of writing rights and/or kick out of goonswarm if he posts on goonfleet.com about his CSM campaign?
3)Since you believe that you are cool and bright enough to think for all other goons, is it not possible to let them at least elect the 2nd place or is it too dangerous, considering the low popularity of Vile Rat?
4)Why do you support botting inside goon territory and do you plan to change that if you get elected for CSM?

Thank you for taking the time to answer concerns of the voters.

BlueDiamonds
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.02 00:17:00 - [199]
 

I support this product and/or service.

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.02 00:19:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Zati Pasirga
Hello Mittani

2)Why you threat Kalrand with removal of writing rights and/or kick out of goonswarm if he posts in SA about his CSM campaign?



FYI: The Mittani has no authority on SA, only on goonfleet.com.


MoonglumX
Posted - 2011.03.02 00:40:00 - [201]
 

I just want to know what your plan B is if you are unsuccessful as CSM chairman. If you unite the CSM, get it organized, and still see no progress, what then? Will you just say "sorry guys, I tried my best", or will you do what needs to be done? If after 6 CSMs there has been no improvement I think CSM should be dismantled and the charade ended.

Zati Pasirga
Posted - 2011.03.02 00:40:00 - [202]
 

Edited by: Zati Pasirga on 02/03/2011 00:41:08
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Zati Pasirga
Hello Mittani

2)Why you threat Kalrand with removal of writing rights and/or kick out of goonswarm if he posts in SA about his CSM campaign?



FYI: The Mittani has no authority on SA, only on goonfleet.com.




Thanks, edited.

Quote:

Hello Mittani

You accidently forgot to answer my questions, so i will summarize the most important ones:

1)Why do you think that the tradition of primary elections in goonswarm was bad and why you cancelled them to put yourself on #1?
2)Why you threat Kalrand with removal of writing rights and/or kick out of goonswarm if he posts on goonfleet.com about his CSM campaign?
3)Since you believe that you are cool and bright enough to think for all other goons, is it not possible to let them at least elect the 2nd place or is it too dangerous, considering the low popularity of Vile Rat?
4)Why do you support botting inside goon territory and do you plan to change that if you get elected for CSM?

Thank you for taking the time to answer concerns of the voters.


Enriana Shlirapen
Posted - 2011.03.02 00:59:00 - [203]
 

The Mittani is a spineless confused nerd.
His tactic is to present himself as a strong leader when in fact he is not at all. The fact that he is leading goons atm says something about the state of goons, not The Mittani's abilities.
Gone are the romantic notions of **** the system. What goons have now is a calculating disturbed post-teen snake, who confuses napping the entirety of eve with being rational in a broken game.
This is a nerd who confessed there are exquisite pleasures to be had in griefing people out of this game.
People who are obviously hilariously ******ed ofc.

Two Shots
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.02 01:11:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Enriana Shli****n
The Mittani is a spineless confused nerd.
His tactic is to present himself as a strong leader when in fact he is not at all. The fact that he is leading goons atm says something about the state of goons, not The Mittani's abilities.
Gone are the romantic notions of **** the system. What goons have now is a calculating disturbed post-teen snake, who confuses napping the entirety of eve with being rational in a broken game.
This is a nerd who confessed there are exquisite pleasures to be had in griefing people out of this game.
People who are obviously hilariously ******ed ofc.



Flattery will get you nowhere, I have LARPing and a puppy to fill the void that you just can't hit right.

Enriana Shlirapen
Posted - 2011.03.02 01:36:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Two Shots
Originally by: Enriana Shli****n
The Mittani is a spineless confused nerd.
His tactic is to present himself as a strong leader when in fact he is not at all. The fact that he is leading goons atm says something about the state of goons, not The Mittani's abilities.
Gone are the romantic notions of **** the system. What goons have now is a calculating disturbed post-teen snake, who confuses napping the entirety of eve with being rational in a broken game.
This is a nerd who confessed there are exquisite pleasures to be had in griefing people out of this game.
People who are obviously hilariously ******ed ofc.



Flattery will get you nowhere, I have LARPing and a puppy to fill the void that you just can't hit right.


This may be too hard for you so let me rephrase. The Mittani is an idiot and all who follow him even more.

Airborne Ninja
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.02 03:11:00 - [206]
 

heh

Jive Burkey
Posted - 2011.03.02 03:13:00 - [207]
 

ima pour a forty on the sidewalk for my ***** "the mittani"
i suggest y'all do the same.
sho'nuff

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.03.02 03:22:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
Originally by: The Mittani
…. the war against drooling hisec missionrunners, lowsec k/d pirates, and 'elite pvp' nullsec nonsovholders is only beginning; it is CSM time, and the current crop of idiots is looking to ruin everything we know about sovereign space despite having never lived there themselves.We are now uniting with our allies (and even our nominal foes) to ensure that the Nullsec Bloc seizes control over the CSM, Jump Bridges aren't removed from the game, and that CCP is forced to get a clue……. In this past year, CCP claims they have begun to 'listen' to the CSM, and what a time to listen. Most major nullsec alliances gave up on the CSM ages ago, and this year-long term is full of nobodies and carebears.


Did you write this?



Did you?

Whether you wrote it or not it is interesting what this person said. After the nullsec alliances gave up on the CSM, CCP started to listen. Food for thought isn’t it?

Perhaps, negotiating with people in a game is a bit of a different animal than negotiating with professionals about their multimillion dollar company. I mean is it surprising that folks at ccp did not jump when the null sec alliance leaders were ruling the roost of csm?

Moreover, whoever said, what was attributed to you, also gave no indication that they understood *why* CCP is beginning to listen to the CSM. I think more than a few people have a clue about what brought that on.

But then we read this:

Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: iP0D

Honest question though. ....So, how exactly are you going to approach CCP when it is time to sit down at the table, ....


i'm going to collect intelligence, make some calls and probably wing it from there. how hostile ccp will be may depend on the composition of the CSM; the best approach may be a subtle one, outside the formal process rather than one that involves meeting minutes. it might be best done within a formal process but i doubt it…one of the easiest fixes and one that seems extremely obvious to me is just to get the whole csm on skype/conference ....



Yeah do away with formal meeting minutes and just talk on skype. I have to say, I don’t think you understood why ccp decided to start listening to the csm. I have a hunch you need to do some thinking or you will be very easy for ccp to ignore. I also think you would be well served to stop posting for your campaign and just tell your goons to shut up and vote for you. Remember, no democracy just do what daddy tells you.

I’m sorry if this is insulting to goon players but they seem to be your view. You apparently think your alliance will vote like you tell them and you don’t even need to explain a thing about what direction you think the game should go.



Originally by: Two Shots

The man can snap his fingers and say "Hey guys, this thing over here sounds like it might be fun; go do it if you feel like it," and thereby consistently summon up a fleet of a thousand people eager to go die horribly. ….


Ah yeah lets all believe that will work fine with CCP. Unfortunately history tells a different story. Null sec leaders who are used to snapping their fingers and having a thousand lemmings jump never accomplished much with csm. It was only when the “current crop of idiots” took office that CCP started listening.



Originally by: The Mittani
What I can deliver is me being a ruthless, manipulative bastard. And you need that...


Actually I don't, nor does csm or ccp. Thanks, but no thanks.

As for me I’m with one of “the current crop of idiots” who said

Originally by: Mynxee
It will be interesting to see how CSM6's take on "stakeholder" status shapes up after they take office and how they choose to leverage it...or not.




Sullivar N
Posted - 2011.03.02 03:42:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: Sullivar N on 02/03/2011 03:42:39

Originally by: Cearain
Belies his ignorance by implying that the majority of the work and influence of the CSM aren't already separate from the official "minutes"



Ooooooops! Too bad that Helen Highwater of CSM5 already stated that most of the work and important dialogue with CCP came from the internal CSM forums, mail threads, and private conversations.

Anela Cistine
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.02 04:09:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Zati Pasirga
Edited by: Zati Pasirga on 01/03/2011 17:04:32
I want to know why you hate free speech and democrazy and if you believe that your hate for free speech makes you a good CSM candidate?
Will you allow other goons to pick their goon-candidates in the future or will you continue to tell everyone who to vote like this year?


You realize that our directorate doesn't force us to vote for anyone in particular, right? Our "official support" of a candidate boils down to a link on at the top of our forums once the polls open. If we are running two candidates it gets more complicated, if your username has an odd number you push one button, if your user name has an even number you push the other button. We don't hold voting CTAs or fire the red pen, people can choose to vote for someone else, or not vote at all. The official candidates just make it easier. Most eve players don't bother to vote at all, our method just makes it as easy as possible for the common goon to do his civic duty.

We used to run primaries, the problem we had was that sometimes a guy that lost the primary wouldn't drop out. This caused dumb goons to mill about in confusion, and sometimes push the wrong button. Last time we managed to muck it up enough that we didn't win a seat at all, just an alternate. :( This year we are making it as goon-proof as possible, by eliminating the primaries. All goons that want to run are still allowed to do so, the won't be kicked from the alliance, or have their pods shot, or anything nasty like that. They just aren't allowed to split the vote using goonfleet.com resources. Any goon who is actually interested in the election can easily find information about all the candidates here.

Nulsec players are a minority, some players in highsec want to make the game less fun for us purely out of spite, so if we want to get any representation on the CSM we have to work together. We can't afford voter apathy or confusion. If highsec players decided to band together and only vote for 10 guys (rather than splitting their votes between every single eve player who has a passport and a wants a free trip to Iceland) then they would easily sweep the election every year. Organize a successful Highsec Heritage Party and no nulsec player will ever be elected to the CSM again.


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