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Ein Spiegel
Minmatar
Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
Posted - 2011.03.07 19:11:00 - [331]
 

Wait.

I think you're not addressing the logical conclusion of democracy.

Bread and circuses for everybody. A new shiny Tengu in every hangar, and don't stop until EVERY player in Eve has an above average positive ISK flow.

Also, you do have a lot to overcome with that lawyer gig. But it does explain a lot of previous things I've seen about The Mittani.

Don't know who I'll vote for, but if you give me kickbacks, earmarks, and pork...


Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.03.07 23:17:00 - [332]
 

Originally by: The Mittani

Originally by: Bomberlocks
That might well be so, but it doesn't explain the need to single out Trebor, and it doesn't explain why Trebor was identified as the most dangerous member of CSM5, which lies in the past. Most dangerous member for what reason? I'm sure Goons will vote for who they are asked to anyway, so why the drama?


You're so angry that anyone would dismiss Trebor's ideas that not only did you ragepost about the topic elsewhere, you popped over here, too.

So:

.....
I notice that a good few of those comments and links are just attacks on him as a person, aka trolling (what a surprise!) but I'll bite on the rest. If you'd ever, just once, actually bothered to have a discussion with him on any of those topics, presenting him with arguments as to why they're bad ideas, do you think he would have listened, perhaps like he did when he did the crowd sourcing initiative?

You're well known for trolling and long lasting personal campaigns against your enemies in null and you carry on that same tendency here, and here comes the important part: without presenting any coherent platform of your own, apart from a vague promise that you'll somehow be more effective than CSM5 was (presumably by using the same tactics that you're using against Trebor). As Trebor is almost going to be on the same CSM as you, the only result of that will be a completely ineffectual CSM riven by internal rivalries and infighting, worse than the drivel that miss no caps or punctuation, mazzilu came up during CSM5. Unless, of course that is exactly what you're aiming for.....

Ovidia Rhianon
Caldari
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
Posted - 2011.03.08 01:14:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: Ovidia Rhianon on 08/03/2011 01:19:49
I'm a empire carebare with less than two months of play time and your getting my votes, thanks to Akay and his excellent lecture pointing me towards your TTH column.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.08 01:48:00 - [334]
 

Originally by: Ein Spiegel
Wait.

I think you're not addressing the logical conclusion of democracy.

Bread and circuses for everybody. A new shiny Tengu in every hangar, and don't stop until EVERY player in Eve has an above average positive ISK flow.

Also, you do have a lot to overcome with that lawyer gig. But it does explain a lot of previous things I've seen about The Mittani.

Don't know who I'll vote for, but if you give me kickbacks, earmarks, and pork...




Sorry, no kickbacks. If you want those, Trebor has a lovely little lottery you can sign up for if your vote is for sale~

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.08 01:53:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
I notice that a good few of those comments and links are just attacks on him as a person, aka trolling (what a surprise!) but I'll bite on the rest. If you'd ever, just once, actually bothered to have a discussion with him on any of those topics, presenting him with arguments as to why they're bad ideas, do you think he would have listened, perhaps like he did when he did the crowd sourcing initiative?

You're well known for trolling and long lasting personal campaigns against your enemies in null and you carry on that same tendency here, and here comes the important part: without presenting any coherent platform of your own, apart from a vague promise that you'll somehow be more effective than CSM5 was (presumably by using the same tactics that you're using against Trebor). As Trebor is almost going to be on the same CSM as you, the only result of that will be a completely ineffectual CSM riven by internal rivalries and infighting, worse than the drivel that miss no caps or punctuation, mazzilu came up during CSM5. Unless, of course that is exactly what you're aiming for.....


I'm just going to link everyone to your meltdown on Scrapheap so we can stop acting like you have anything serious to say without literally punching a hole in your monitor in a frothing rage. You want to attack me for 'trolling' and 'personal'?

Heh.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.08 01:57:00 - [336]
 

Edited by: The Mittani on 08/03/2011 01:57:50
Originally by: Ovidia Rhianon

I'm a empire carebare with less than two months of play time and your getting my votes, thanks to Akay and his excellent lecture pointing me towards your TTH column.


Thanks; you can also find a lecture I gave to Eve-U a few years back about espionage on the Eve-U website. Hope you enjoyed it, and remember, spying is the most fun you can have (in a bad spaceship game made in iceland) with your clothes still on.

Lotney Fratelli
Minmatar
X-Ray Factory
Posted - 2011.03.08 11:03:00 - [337]
 

The Mittani is a strong man, he will crush his opponents and be powerful like Stalin!


If you do not vote for him, he will take power!

Minerva Seraph
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.03.08 18:43:00 - [338]
 

Mittani, you're a powerful character in the game. But at the end of the day, that's all we see of you. You boast your ruthlessness, but I can't help but wonder whether that's who you are, or if it's a mask you put on when dealing with the game.

But, to your credit, you wear it very well. I've seen alleged chatlogs that feature you, and you have a fierce bite. One of my fears is that you, with VileRat, will tag-team to dominate the discourse of the CSM and scare the mouths off the other members of the council.

There appears to be a consolidated campaign to keep Trebor away from the council, yet you must understand that in the end it's likely that, whether you are on the council or not, you'll probably wind up working with Trebor. One of the alligations that stem from the anti-Trebor sentiment is that he can't actually come up with good ideas, but Trebor provides examples of successful ideas that has gained his support, so it would stand to reason that there are crappy ideas that he's supported as a member of the CSM.

GOON members have also hilighted personal ideas of his that have failed to gain traction. Are there ideas that sit in the middle - half-baked proposals that he's supported that can act as an example of shot-gun approval that exists to see which surivive long enough to make a hit? In otherwords, would you be willing to provide examples of Trebor supporting a cartload of crappy ideas to sift out a few precious good ideas?

I see him as supporting either populist ideas that players have demanded for ages, and for "making suggestions" that have been in the CCP-pipeline for years, but I'd like to know if your researchers can list false-start initiatives that would show me, the interested voter (and king of Perkone!) if this guy just supports any crappy thing that comes along. Put your money where your goony-mouths are!

Minluas
Posted - 2011.03.08 19:36:00 - [339]
 

We herd sheep, we drive cattle, we lead people. Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way.
George S. Patton

Keep Leading Mittani!!!

+1 vote

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.08 21:53:00 - [340]
 

Originally by: Minerva Seraph
Mittani, you're a powerful character in the game. But at the end of the day, that's all we see of you. You boast your ruthlessness, but I can't help but wonder whether that's who you are, or if it's a mask you put on when dealing with the game.

But, to your credit, you wear it very well. I've seen alleged chatlogs that feature you, and you have a fierce bite. One of my fears is that you, with VileRat, will tag-team to dominate the discourse of the CSM and scare the mouths off the other members of the council.


Most of the discourse of the CSM takes place on internal forums. While it's true that strong personalities can dominate a summit, I don't intend to 'scare the mouths off' other representatives at all. That said, I'll do my level best to utterly crush completely ******ed ideas, and make no bones about it.

Quote:
There appears to be a consolidated campaign to keep Trebor away from the council, yet you must understand that in the end it's likely that, whether you are on the council or not, you'll probably wind up working with Trebor. One of the alligations that stem from the anti-Trebor sentiment is that he can't actually come up with good ideas, but Trebor provides examples of successful ideas that has gained his support, so it would stand to reason that there are crappy ideas that he's supported as a member of the CSM.

GOON members have also hilighted personal ideas of his that have failed to gain traction. Are there ideas that sit in the middle - half-baked proposals that he's supported that can act as an example of shot-gun approval that exists to see which surivive long enough to make a hit? In otherwords, would you be willing to provide examples of Trebor supporting a cartload of crappy ideas to sift out a few precious good ideas?

I see him as supporting either populist ideas that players have demanded for ages, and for "making suggestions" that have been in the CCP-pipeline for years, but I'd like to know if your researchers can list false-start initiatives that would show me, the interested voter (and king of Perkone!) if this guy just supports any crappy thing that comes along. Put your money where your goony-mouths are!


From my perspective, the primary concern is not 'this guy has dumb ideas', because CCP typically ignores 'amateur game design' attempts and clearly has done so thus far. More worrying to me are the personal reports from Mazziliu and Helen about his tendency to belabor a point and drive devs away from a discussion out of sheer sperg-factor. Since Jade Constantine has now lined up behind Trebor, that's the kind of endorsement that should make knowledgeable, socially-adept players cringe in horror.

Minerva Seraph
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.03.08 22:08:00 - [341]
 

Thank you Mittani for your responses.

Originally by: The Mittani

From my perspective, the primary concern is not 'this guy has dumb ideas', because CCP typically ignores 'amateur game design' attempts and clearly has done so thus far. More worrying to me are the personal reports from Mazziliu and Helen about his tendency to belabor a point and drive devs away from a discussion out of sheer sperg-factor. Since Jade Constantine has now lined up behind Trebor, that's the kind of endorsement that should make knowledgeable, socially-adept players cringe in horror.



I'd appreciate seeing Helen and Mazziliu speak up on that. I'm not gunning for an endorsement in favour of you over another candidate, but if more of past CSMs could speak on the record about the issues of the previous CSM, it would say a lot more about the issues of the CSM and what would work out best for it.

Minerva Seraph
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.03.08 22:25:00 - [342]
 

I have another question, this one pointed to one of the more unfortunate aspects of this campaign, but a reality that I most enjoy about this game.

In the leaked comments, you seem to take a less than favourable view of the ideas of most of the other candidates, current and past. I'd like to read it from you: What do you think the negatives effects of removing jumpbridges from the game would be? Do you believe there is room for compromise?

Goonswarm has been said to have a vested interest in curtailing reform in 0.0 space. While I've tried to understand the campaign of the big players, I'd like to understand your position better. You are, after all, the leader of the alliance and you speak for them in diplomatic situations. In short, why should we all care about jumpbridges? Can you illustrate the challenges of living the 0.0 dream, despite earning hundreds of millions from Technetium every few days?

Thanks again for spending your time on this.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.08 22:37:00 - [343]
 

Originally by: Minerva Seraph
Thank you Mittani for your responses.

I'd appreciate seeing Helen and Mazziliu speak up on that. I'm not gunning for an endorsement in favour of you over another candidate, but if more of past CSMs could speak on the record about the issues of the previous CSM, it would say a lot more about the issues of the CSM and what would work out best for it.



They've made a number of posts about Trebor already. Here's Mazz:

Quote:

trebor is literally an asbergers guy in real life.

the difference between trebor and other csm candidates is that we know when were being stupid *******s and can start and stop as we please(i never stop), trebor doesnt know when he's being an *******.(im pretty sure this is a symptom of asbergers)

trebor doesn't let ignorance get in the way of sharing his opinion, on and on and on. you should have seen how he dominated the 0.0 discussions. does this guy know **** about 0.0? no, haha

trebor can end important forum discussions with devs, with the power of a thousand suns

trebor does lots of boring gruntwork that ends up unused when consulting with devs, because it says nothing new or creative. but it looks great in front of people who don't know how the csm works

the idea of inflicting trebor on ccp for a second time is hilarious to me, mostly because i do not have to deal with it anymore. but it isn't good for the csm.

voting for trebor for the grief factor is like voting for ankh the last time around Razz id do it too, for the greif. but i wouldnt do it if i wanted the csm to work smoothly with the devs

i know what mittani is trying to do and i am pretty sure it's going to backfire. he is going to find himself trapped in a room with trebor for 8 hours a day for 3 days and im laughing my ass off at the thought of it. i almost regret not running because i wont be able to watch the spectacle, but not really because it would mean i'm trapped in a room with trebor.

edit- i still support mittani in his endeavor for entertainment purposes


The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.08 22:40:00 - [344]
 

And here's what Helen had to say on Goonfleet.com, which you can't read.

Quote:
As loyal subjects of the Dear Leader we will all, of course, be casting our votes for the official GSF candidates in the CSM elections. This is almost guaranteed to get Mittens and Vile Rat comfy chairs near the window for the 6th CSM. However we should not only consider our duty in elevating these worthies to their rightful position but also to ensure that the company they find themselves in is conducive to convivial conversation. There are several candidates who are likely to get elected but who are utterly toxic to the CSM process.

Chief amongst these is Trebor Daehdoow. He's been quite possibly the most useless waste of flesh on CSM 5 and, thanks to his high-visiblity and that his idiocy has been largely camouflaged by the NDA, has built something of a following amongst the least perceptive parts of the Eve community. He has zero clue about how this game works but doesn't let his lack of knowledge get in the way of offering an opinion, he's also even more of an unfunny ***got in real life than he is on the internet - a feat that I didn't think was possible until I ended up trapped in a room with him for 8 hours a day. He wrote some PASCAL games back in the 80s and still believes that this gives him an insight into modern MMO development. He also has a Wikipedia page that he wrote himself. :cripes:

As this guy has a lot of name recognition going in to the election (he wrote most of the CSM communications that weren't done by either Teadaze or myself) he is very likely to get re-elected, he may even get the chair. This must not be allowed to happen. His weakness is game knowledge and I think it's important that he be challenged on this in his campaign thread to expose his cluelessness for all to see, he's pretty hard-headed and doesn't back down even when he has literally everybody else in the room telling him that he's wrong so this shouldn't be difficult.

Seriously, **** that guy.



David Carel
Caldari
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.09 00:18:00 - [345]
 

Of all the CSM candidates, I'd vote for Mittens or Krutoj.
Now who should I choose..?

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.09 00:27:00 - [346]
 

Originally by: David Carel
Of all the CSM candidates, I'd vote for Mittens or Krutoj.
Now who should I choose..?


Krutoj owns. Vote for him.

Ovidia Rhianon
Caldari
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
Posted - 2011.03.09 01:46:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 08/03/2011 01:57:50
Originally by: Ovidia Rhianon

I'm a empire carebare with less than two months of play time and your getting my votes, thanks to Akay and his excellent lecture pointing me towards your TTH column.


Thanks; you can also find a lecture I gave to Eve-U a few years back about espionage on the Eve-U website. Hope you enjoyed it, and remember, spying is the most fun you can have (in a bad spaceship game made in iceland) with your clothes still on.


I did listen to it and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:22:00 - [348]
 


Ovidia Rhianon
Caldari
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
Posted - 2011.03.09 04:39:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
It is time to vote, at last.


Put my three in, good luck.

Admiral Feelgood
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.09 11:04:00 - [350]
 

I voted for The Mittani and a brighter future.

sg1jack
Caldari
The Omega Particle
Posted - 2011.03.09 11:35:00 - [351]
 

I have'nt placed my vote yet so I will sell it to you for 10 billion isk.

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.03.09 12:01:00 - [352]
 


EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.09 13:41:00 - [353]
 

Seleene has his own thread, so why would you spam that **** here?

Nevigrofnu Mrots
Posted - 2011.03.09 13:52:00 - [354]
 

Ignore my English, It's not my first, or even second language.

When people vote, vote for 1 of 4 main reasons: vote for the "party" the candidate is in (in this case corporation/alliance) (1), vote in a program (2), vote in the advantages he might bring them if he is elected (3) or just vote for the candidate (4).

I normally like to vote for a candidate, the other reasons are secondary to me. If I do not find something to identify myself with in the candidate, he will not get my vote. So I need to examine the profile, biography, experience and the character of the candidate.

In our case I found a lot of information about biography and experience but I didnít have information about your character... so I did something I pick up from my father job, I profiled you. We can learn plenty just by reading statements and texts that people write down. Itís not a exact science and by no means I'm a professional doing this, but for this purpose will suffice.

Most of the candidates profiles I've made are jerks, to put it in a simple way. Many didnít show structure and coherent ideas. I found some that reveal their own insecurities in RL in the campaign posts. Some are just self-delusion were this is itís more than a game, itís their entire life! - these people need counselling and quickly, OMG!

About your profiling, I started with your campaign text: Excellent writing skills. The correct use of words in specific places. The arguments used are based in common sense, what reinforces the ideas you want to transmit. Itís obvious that you choose a very specific public (0.0), research it, found its soft spot and went for the kill. Persuasion and manipulation 101 right there. Excellent.

You grab my attention and since that text left many answers of your profile open I went after more. So I went after your posts in Kugu and tenton. I lost an hour reading your stuff.

The most impressive thing I discover, is something rare among MMO players, you don't display any signs on Disinhibition Effect that normally affects most of the MMO players . This means that you behave here, in EVE, the same way you behave in RL, that is a plus in your final score.

So what is your final score? in my opinion:

You seem to be a very determined intelligent and successful man. You are a very talented introspective writer. You have charismatic speaking skills but a knack for manipulative-building opinions. You seem to execute authority with moderation and common sense, but when faced with something that might presents you a problem or a danger to your status, position or way of thinking, you donít blink and go ďfor the killĒ without take in account consequences to others than yourself and that makes you a egocentric bastard. You seem to behave in Eve the same way you behave in RL.

So...

I totally Identify myself with you. You have my vote.



Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.03.09 14:11:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Seleene has his own thread, so why would you spam that **** here?


Rofl.

I am going to resist because this goal is so darn wide open it's not even funny anymore.


Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:40:00 - [356]
 

Hello Mittani,

A few questions.



- You have raised the point of "all expenses" paid trip to Iceland. Would you, as an elected delegate, decline to attend the summits in Iceland and opt to telecommute from home?

- You have mentioned "my directors" having been in the past five CSM pools; who are they and why are they considered "your" directors?

- Skill queues are mentioned as one of the great featured coming out of CSM efforts, but nothing more. Do you believe this is the only feature of note worth mentioning? Are there others (with examples)?

- In your short blurb just before a voter casts their support for you, there is mention that in order to effect change you alone require the CSM chair. What advantages do you believe are provided with chair versus a regular delegate? What do you believe can only be achieve by obtaining chair? *WHY* can such issues not be brought forward as any other position within the CSM?

- Given your belief that one feature of thousands is "apalling", what sort of tools or methods will you use if elected to change this track record, whether passively or by force?

- Do you have any comments on the work done by CSM 5 in comparison with previous councils?

- You appear to advocate manipulation, hard-line tactics and shotgun diplomacy to get things done, the way you want them. What recourses do you have or have used in the past when someone decides to challenge you/dissent professionally? Let us only focus on strong, logical debate and not "omgudidwhart?!?!LOL" type rebuke.




Looking forward to your replies. Cool

Cyno Tities
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:15:00 - [357]
 

Dear The Mittani,

What is your position on RMT'ing and BOT'ing in eve? Would you advocate any changes in eve to deal with BOT corps renting from large 0.0 alliance rental schemes?

Regards,
Cyno

Sujanra Acoma
Minmatar
Shadow Kitty Legion
Rura-Penthe
Posted - 2011.03.09 17:24:00 - [358]
 

Well, just from your massive post and view count in this thread (in all likelihood, artificially inflated), you will probably be elected.

I think the fact that you're spinning so hard for an internet spaceship council is pretty funny, though.

Thermadon
Posted - 2011.03.09 17:24:00 - [359]
 

Edited by: Thermadon on 09/03/2011 17:24:53
hey The Mittani you have got my vote m8

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.09 17:44:00 - [360]
 

Originally by: Nevigrofnu Mrots
Ignore my English, It's not my first, or even second language.

When people vote, vote for 1 of 4 main reasons: vote for the "party" the candidate is in (in this case corporation/alliance) (1), vote in a program (2), vote in the advantages he might bring them if he is elected (3) or just vote for the candidate (4).

I normally like to vote for a candidate, the other reasons are secondary to me. If I do not find something to identify myself with in the candidate, he will not get my vote. So I need to examine the profile, biography, experience and the character of the candidate.

In our case I found a lot of information about biography and experience but I didnít have information about your character... so I did something I pick up from my father job, I profiled you. We can learn plenty just by reading statements and texts that people write down. Itís not a exact science and by no means I'm a professional doing this, but for this purpose will suffice.

Most of the candidates profiles I've made are jerks, to put it in a simple way. Many didnít show structure and coherent ideas. I found some that reveal their own insecurities in RL in the campaign posts. Some are just self-delusion were this is itís more than a game, itís their entire life! - these people need counselling and quickly, OMG!

About your profiling, I started with your campaign text: Excellent writing skills. The correct use of words in specific places. The arguments used are based in common sense, what reinforces the ideas you want to transmit. Itís obvious that you choose a very specific public (0.0), research it, found its soft spot and went for the kill. Persuasion and manipulation 101 right there. Excellent.

You grab my attention and since that text left many answers of your profile open I went after more. So I went after your posts in Kugu and tenton. I lost an hour reading your stuff.

The most impressive thing I discover, is something rare among MMO players, you don't display any signs on Disinhibition Effect that normally affects most of the MMO players . This means that you behave here, in EVE, the same way you behave in RL, that is a plus in your final score.

So what is your final score? in my opinion:

You seem to be a very determined intelligent and successful man. You are a very talented introspective writer. You have charismatic speaking skills but a knack for manipulative-building opinions. You seem to execute authority with moderation and common sense, but when faced with something that might presents you a problem or a danger to your status, position or way of thinking, you donít blink and go ďfor the killĒ without take in account consequences to others than yourself and that makes you a egocentric bastard. You seem to behave in Eve the same way you behave in RL.

So...

I totally Identify myself with you. You have my vote.





From your commentary about disinhibition you may be amused by the fact that we have a Zizek quote as our alliance description. (I think Zizek is a big hilarious fraud and that anyone calling themselves a Lacanian outside of the realm of academic literary criticism should be shot, but it's a good quote nonetheless).I'm pretty much exactly the same in real life as I am in game.

I appreciate your post.


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