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khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.02.28 08:28:00 - [31]
 

Kirian and his army of alts did indeed come up with the original Wh spread sheet and saw how wormholes are connected and the scanning sizes of about 65% or more of the sig sizes.
Two step then came up with a basic out of game program similar to the one dan posted.
Both these versions had holes of missing data in them that we at BVN have added to since the formation of our corp and splodger personally has written that tool for our own corps use.
Anyone saying he stole his version from AHARM is being pretty silly in my oppinion.
It would be like comparing the wheel to a motor car. Ok you cant have a car without the wheel but it gets a bit ridiculous from there.
We open and close alot of WH's every day looking for targets to kill or routes out to empire and this tool lets us see the number of jumps or recent sleeper kills or general activity in a system so we can decide weather its worth keeping or cycling to another one.(and this information does not come from splodgers server it comes from CCP)
The tool is not the be all and end all of WH's as it only predicts the static exit from a WH and not all the regionals or K162's which are random and therefor impossible to predict(unless you work for CCP which we dont)

The final thing I would like to say is that BVN hunt for targets ligitemately needing no use of exploits( in game or otherwise) and to surgest otherwise is silly.
People complain day in day out that WH's suck because of the amount of scanning it takes to move about so splodger released this to help the community as a whole.

Raid'En
Posted - 2011.02.28 19:33:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Daneel Trevize
For an offline version of the piece of this app that gives you the reliable static sig name and size (i.e. the feature that isn't provided by dotlan/staticmapper/evemaps/in game routing feature):

Mini Daneel WH app as of 12th Sept 2010

ty, i only wanted the "signatures size" database and it's in :)

Halock
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.28 19:40:00 - [33]
 

Nice tool, however this is eve, should have pointed out straight away that it could be used to track you, not doing that looks like a trap, gj on the poster pointing that out for everyone else.

khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.02.28 20:21:00 - [34]
 

I think if I wanted to go to the trouble of tracking someone I would use A tracking agent ingame which will tell me the same stuff, the talk that we use it to track people using it is just untrue and I dont even know if its possible as the question had never come up b4 to me.

Glad its of use raid'en. Shud help you get about selling ur WH's Very Happy

Ace Secunda
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:16:00 - [35]
 

I was really just adding comical one liners and such with this thread, until that was a member of AHARM leadership came in and asked all his people to stop whining (showed maturity)......... and then started to whine in the next paragraph of the same post about all the things he asked his 'boyz' to stop whining about!

Come on, loads of people have already said use it at your own risk, time to move on :D

Demorest
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:47:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Halock
Nice tool, however this is eve, should have pointed out straight away that it could be used to track you, not doing that looks like a trap, gj on the poster pointing that out for everyone else.


Well said sir.

Kitsune Jones
Posted - 2011.02.28 23:12:00 - [37]
 

Was it somehow not obvious? You're submitting your location to his web server for the script to run. It's not using magical fairy power to deduce the stats of the wormhole you're in; the eve client is transmitting your location for the database lookup.

There's the risk of sinister motives, but using it to find every miscellaneous pilot floating around in wormholes to run over and gank seems a bit like more trouble than it's worth. I sincerely doubt they're going to try to hunt down some random idiot while he fights Sleepers in C2s. That said, were I in an alliance at war with his, I'd be refraining from using it. Paranoia in Eve is often the course of wisdom.

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:06:00 - [38]
 

Step 1: Release innocent app
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Best single day ever with almost 10bil destroyed, >1bil loot, 4 tengus, 4 cap ships, and a 5th cap ran out its logoff timer at 20% hull. ugh

Floydd Heywood
Posted - 2011.03.01 09:53:00 - [39]
 

Did you just admit it was a trap? Shocked

I wonder if that isn't a bannable offense, after all it's meta-gaming to facilitate a software tool to find and kill people in the game.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.03.01 10:05:00 - [40]
 

I don't think there is anything bannable or even offensive here. Use of this tool is entirely voluntary. The risks have been disclosed by those who care to disclose them. Its not like they're launching a DDoS attack on your TS comms, thereby getting your FC to emoragequit the fleet. (Props to DRF for Sun Tzuing ftw)

I will say that it might be worth it to find a route into a specific system if there are lots of juicy targets. Does this thing transmit anything other than your current location to the player's server?




Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.01 10:13:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 01/03/2011 10:14:18
People are just their usual ******ed w-space tengu/capship-owning selves. We think the 2 dreads and a carrier with hull damage were either by an old hole, or at a safe nearish their pos while they repped. Any which way, not safe not watching dscan, then they didn't log quick enough. Dunno what gave them hull damage to start with, either really bad sleeper fighting (they're sniper fit) or lucky escape from closing a high end hostile hole.

The 2 tengus and 2 cap ships in an anom were running it with 3 other holes in their home, including a static highsec. That's just asking to be jumped.

As for info collected, it's in theory able to pull anything from the IGB header extensions that are valid, I don't know which bits it's looking for atm, but I'm not aware you can trust only specific details, I think it's all or nothing.

khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.03.01 10:28:00 - [42]
 

This app uses no more info than using jove labs or dotlan when u trust those sites to use the extra features like route planning.
It is not a tarp and how can you find someone in a WH when spawns to a system are random and only the K-space side of things predictable?
We stay in WH's pretty much 24/7 unless its poping out to buy/sell stuff so I dont really know how you think we can exploit this.
As to Dans post that sounded like he was gloating about killing stuff, half the stuff was in nullsec and the other stuff was just sat afk in space and got caught with there pants down.
You can only predict what type of WH's the system has not exactly where its going to lead so this is pretty much just scare-mongering.

JimmyThePimp
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.03.01 10:33:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Daneel Trevize
Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 01/03/2011 10:14:18
We think the 2 dreads and a carrier with hull damage were either by an old hole, or at a safe nearish their pos while they repped.


wasnt an old hole, over 9au from the nearest celestial. sniper fit + half empty drone bays tells me they were sat either end of a site trying to snipe the coasting sleepers, dumped drones to warp out when the fit hit the shan. carrier had a remote hull rep so they were ss'd patching up the grazes, though id advise sitting on the edge of the pos shields next time.

also, reckon it would be kinda tricky for 3 cap ships to be jumping hole to hole for us to track them, especially the c3 static their home has... and the 2 carriers were in a c3, which are notorious for high cap traffic in and out.

its a mystery, it really is. maybe we just open and close holes all day until we find targets, with a nav tool, that tells us sigs and activity.... who knows.

Floydd Heywood
Posted - 2011.03.01 10:39:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Floydd Heywood on 01/03/2011 10:41:57
Then why does he imply that "release of an innocent app" led your corp to your "best single day"? That doesn't make sense.

Personally I don't care, I don't need the app. Looks nice, but I already got all the info from various other places and own research. Maybe a little less comfortable, but at least I don't send any data to a notorious wh roaming corp. Actually the one corp that was able to kill (and pod) me in over a year while ratting Smile

khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.03.01 10:42:00 - [45]
 

I didnt realise were we notorious lol.
To small and down the pecking chain in WH life to be noticed.
YARRRR!!

Floydd Heywood
Posted - 2011.03.01 10:53:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: khazak mokl
I didnt realise were we notorious lol.
To small and down the pecking chain in WH life to be noticed.
YARRRR!!

With you guys scanning and sniffing around day in day out, it's practically impossible not to meet one of you every other week or so. We usually just see you slip through our wormholes with our cloaked scouts and then leave again because our system is (or looks) devoid of targets Laughing

Unfortunately we know that when there is a fight you'll always bring all you have which is quite a lot, so there's no point in provoking a battle. Well, at least we killed one of your scouts once... khazak, actually Cool

khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.03.01 11:11:00 - [47]
 

You guys killed me? Guess everyone gets caught now and then if ur just scouting 99% of the time.
But if we caught you to I guess we're even Very Happy
Most of our time is spent opening and closing C3's all day looking for pew and mainly it goes like this:-
1. I get a new hole and jump in.
2. Dscan to see if its occupied and check splodgers site to see if there has been recent jumps/sleeper kills.(same as we used to do from jove labs before splodge added the feature to his site)
3. If theres sleeper kills we stay cloaky and dscan them out for pew
4. If there been recent jumps but no signs of ships we scan out all the size 10s looking for K162s and if we can be arsed scan out the other sigs to for regionals.
5.Jump into connecting systems (WH's/Low?Null)till we find pew.
6. If no pew is found close the static and go to stage 1 lol.

Theres no mystrey in it or getting peoples super secret locations to gank them in there T1 scanning Frigs.
Its just statistics. IF you open and close enough holes you will find targets.
Some friday nights we have 5 or more people sat there on a WH opening and closing and not finding jack squat all night and eventually all log off bored.

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.01 11:11:00 - [48]
 

That makes your main probably in GNADE Inc., J104351.
Jadawin Khanidi?

How do Samhain./viperfleet compare w.r.t. ransom offers? Wink

Floydd Heywood
Posted - 2011.03.01 11:34:00 - [49]
 

Who knows. Probably Cool

Splodger
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.03.01 12:39:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Splodger on 01/03/2011 12:40:17
Originally by: Soldarius
Does this thing transmit anything other than your current location to the player's server?



A list of things that can be kept in a database are
Headers

This post is quite informative aswell
Eve search discussion on IGB headers


Vosier
Posted - 2011.03.01 16:44:00 - [51]
 

Great work Splodger, we have been using bits of this idea for some time but this definately streamlines it. And if you accidentally maliciously track us to our home system of J125122 and bring a fleet in we would love to play. Bring your toys and we'll bring ours and the field will be littered with the hulls of our ships. For that matter if anyone wants to play in our WH we will scan a chain, drop a contract, and have a party. We may not win, but it will be fun regardless which is what this whole deal is all about right? Thanks again Splodger, be seeing you guys around Cool

Kerowyn's
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:53:00 - [52]
 

Fun thread, got half of the corp saying no we are really only releasing this info to help people, the other half saying yes it really is a tarp.

Entertaining keep it up.

Ill 0o
Posted - 2011.03.02 08:06:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Kerowyn's
Fun thread, got half of the corp saying no we are really only releasing this info to help people, the other half saying yes it really is a tarp.

Entertaining keep it up.


the best part is reading mesmerizingly stupied people like you who doesnt know what sarcasm is.

Kerowyn's
Posted - 2011.03.02 11:30:00 - [54]
 

I don't normally feed trolls but...

Originally by: Ill 0o
Originally by: Kerowyn's
Fun thread, got half of the corp saying no we are really only releasing this info to help people, the other half saying yes it really is a tarp.

Entertaining keep it up.




The best part is reading about mesmerizingly stupid people like you who, are unaware of what sarcasm is.


There fixed it for you.

Ill 0o
Posted - 2011.03.02 11:47:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Kerowyn's
I don't normally feed trolls but...


good you will be dead in a couple of days then.

Ace Secunda
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2011.03.02 22:23:00 - [56]
 

Technically it is a trap, not in the covert, electronic, scripty, tracky, programmy way that everyone is saying though, It helps people enter and setup in wormholes easier then travel between them too which means more targets for corps like us who are damn near 100% PvP focused. So YES it is a trap and when we are not losing T2 frigates to T1 cruisers in low sec we will be around your hole having a party :D

Splodger
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.03.02 22:43:00 - [57]
 

UPDATED : to v1.Something else

Trust no longer needed to use - Just enter in the J-number / Locus.
Credits - Apologies to Kirian for the late addition.
Sig Size Calculator - Caused by Pocurk wanting to educate the world.
Sig Size Tutorial - (IGB) http://www.splodger.com/wormnav/sighelp.php.

At some point I will still move it out of the IGB - so be paitent.

Enjoy. Cool


Vjorn Angannon
Fleet Escort Services
Posted - 2011.03.02 23:57:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Vjorn Angannon on 03/03/2011 00:51:30
Thought I'd add in my 2 centavos worth.

I downloaded and started using the app a few hours after Splodger offered it to the public. Since then I have watched the debate, and learned a few things from it as well (I am not the most computer savvy). As far as the tarp is concerned, this app isn't going to magically spawn wormholes allowing unlimited access to someone's system. Bottom line: establish corp security protocols in your w-system....and USE them lol.

@ Splodger: Thank you. I like this little app mainly because it brings together several tools I've been using into one tidy package. And, I really, really like the Sig Size addition. I searched the forums for info, found only enough to whet my appetite, but not enough to educate me; your addition opened my eyes.

Fly dangerously and happy hunting,

Vj

Edit: Looks like I need to thank Pocurk for nudging Splodger a bit :)

Pocurk
Bite me inc.
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.03.03 05:30:00 - [59]
 

Att. Vjorn: Im glad im not the only one in EVE with little to no knowledge about computers, and how this aplication works. Im just pleased that it does ! Im sorry i didnt understand the tracking "issue" when i wrote my first recomenation, but thats down to lack of knowledge, not sinister motives.

The sig size calculator ive been using up till now, is basically a spredsheat with a ton of numbers - most irelevant - that can put people like myselft of. That doesnt mean that the previouis method wasnt usefull, it was just more info than i cared for...if you know what i mean - no offence to the creator. So that its been added as an easy drop-down-menu guide should be very helpfull to people like you and i. We dont have to understand the numbers, for it to be usefull.

Att. Splodger : It may be down to language barrier , but i dont understand this one :

"The blues possible 2.5's could also be wormholes as they match up to the 2.5's on the table are are a clear "band" of a particular size"

Also, unless its allready extremely clear :
Static exit(s) - Check WormNAv for sig size
K162's - ALWAYS size 10
Regionals (wormholes that is not static from either side, best examplified as wormholes that "apear" static from hi-sec) - Can be any size as i understand it, but are relatively rare, especially between wormholes.

So basically, jump into new system, check d-scan for what ever you need to know, scan the static sizes, scan size 10's, decide to keep or close the hole. Hopefully this will reduce time spend scanning by alot.

Finally i can see Splodger introduced the option to type in your location instead of hitting "update location". If that solves the tracking "issue" then YAY, but i still claim the best part of this aplication is that there is no typing involved.

I can apreciate peoples concerns aout the tracking "issue", so choose what you please, but if your used to using multiple websites and havnt heard about sig sizes yet, i HIGHLY recomend, you use WormNav, or something simular to ease your WH life.

As my corpmates have stated earlier - the reasons we want to make WH life easier for people (by making this public, and answering Q's on forums) is that the easier it gets, the more targets we are likely to see. Also some of our guys are actually pretty nice guys that enjoys helping others, which may be a little hard to believe.

Regards,
Pocurk

Splodger
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:10:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Splodger on 03/03/2011 14:15:53
Originally by: Pocurk


Finally i can see Splodger introduced the option to type in your location instead of hitting "update location". If that solves the tracking "issue" then YAY, but i still claim the best part of this aplication is that there is no typing involved.




Just to clear this up, we had a chat on vent earlier... it would still be possible but there wouldnt be any name attached to the systems visited which could be done with trust version. In essence any website you visit could also track you via a "session" but this goes into the realm of youd better either wear a tin-hat or not use the internet. - thought Id just try and educate and be totally transparent.

Cheers Poc, will update the sig info it to make it bit more clear.

@ Vjorn Angannon

Your welcome, nice to hear some positive feedback.



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