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Anthony Makken
Caldari
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:22:00 - [1]
 

i am a new player and just getting started. last night i saw a canister labeled PVP. so i stole from it and was able to win in the pvp match, i then proceeded to pod kill my opponent not knowing that such activity was forbidden. i am in Kisogo (1.0 sec). the concord quickly destroyed my ship as usual. so i hid in the station for 15 mns untill my aggression countdown was complete. i then went outside to be killed by concord again. so i waited overnight and again when i leave the station i am immidiately destroyed.

I now have a security rating of -3.75 and when i leave the station i get a message stating that criminals will not be tolerated in caldari space.

what am i doing wrong because now i cant play the game.

my initial kill after pod killing was by the state war academy.
the next second and third were from the corporate police force.

gfldex
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:39:00 - [2]
 

Petition it. You should not get a sec hit from getting shot by CONCORD or any other NPC.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:40:00 - [3]
 

I think this should just about answer your questions on the subject. If the character is too new you might just want to biomass it and start again. Otherwise you'll be moving to 0.6 sec and never travel higher until your sec status recovers. Oh and train Diplomacy.

CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:55:00 - [4]
 

You can escape in your pod to a lower security system, NPC police will not engage your pod. I suggest working on your sec status if you want to stay in high sec, otherwise I hear 0.0 is nice this time of year Smile

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.02.23 21:06:00 - [5]
 

Yea i think they won't attack you in 0.6 and 0.5 systems at -3.75, do some missions there to increase your security standings. As it may take a loooooooong time, biomassing may be an option too.

TokiWartooth Joringer
Posted - 2011.02.23 22:40:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Yea i think they won't attack you in 0.6 and 0.5 systems at -3.75, do some missions there to increase your security standings. As it may take a loooooooong time, biomassing may be an option too.
Biomassing a -Sec char is frowned upon, there is a dev posting somewhere, just dont feel like digging around for it.

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.02.23 23:05:00 - [7]
 

Meerkat Maner




Cygnus Zhada
Viziam
Posted - 2011.02.23 23:41:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: TokiWartooth Joringer
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Yea i think they won't attack you in 0.6 and 0.5 systems at -3.75, do some missions there to increase your security standings. As it may take a loooooooong time, biomassing may be an option too.
Biomassing a -Sec char is frowned upon, there is a dev posting somewhere, just dont feel like digging around for it.


Only if it's done repeatedly with a young alt, making it obvious that it's setup to avoid backlashes from high sec shenanigans. Which is not the case here. Apart from that, if botters get a 3 day slap on the wrist I doubt people who *might* be rehashing alts get anything more than strong language.

Anthony Makken
Caldari
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2011.02.24 01:05:00 - [9]
 

what is the quickest way to improve my security rating. or is missioning the only way.

and would petitioning be my only way?

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.24 01:56:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Anthony Makken
what is the quickest way to improve my security rating. or is missioning the only way.

and would petitioning be my only way?


You might try a petition, though I highly doubt that will turn out any results. It's worth a shot anyway since occasionally GMs will bend the rules when it's an extremely new player and won't dramatically unbalance the game.

The fastest way is to raise your sec status is to kill an NPC and then leave the system. You'll want several systems next to eachother, each with at least 6 or so belts, travel between them killing belt rats. It's more effective the lower security you go because you get better belt rats. Missions are much slower but have the advantage of potentially better pay and standings gains with NPC corps. Also train Diplomacy. That alone should be enough to let you travel to most systems.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.02.24 02:09:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 24/02/2011 02:40:17
Originally by: Anthony Makken
what is the quickest way to improve my security rating. or is missioning the only way.

and would petitioning be my only way?



Uh ... you screwed yourself by poding someone when you knew better than to do that - and now you're trying to avoid the consequences of your acts. Why should you be able to petition that?

Note the contents of the post from the CCP guy ...

You're screwed - and you should be - but lets be clear about this - you screwed yourself.



Now - as the CCP guy mentioned - there's 0.0.

What the guys who do a lot of ganking do - is to belong to a 0.0 corporation. That way - they can exist in 0.0 with no problems from their security status - but - they can also go out into the 0.0 belts and kill rat battleships. That is the quickest way to restore your security status that I have heard about. My understanding - is that before Hulkageddon - they go down there and kill rat battleships to bring their security status up as high as they can - and then go back down there afterwards to restore it.


Short of that you've got alts and you can still run missions in the lower security areas of Hi Sec. As mentioned - you can fly down to an area where you're not KOS - and start running missions there. Level IV missions have rat battleships. Ratting in Hi Sec ... isn't going to help you much as the rats aren't worth squat and ... iirc ... if you only kill rats of a certain level ... you stop getting any credit for it after a while.

Of course - you can go down to Low Sec - and contend with all the other people down there with low security ratings. They pod each other all the time and - don't care - since they don't plan on coming back up. If you get down into a .1 or .2 system ... you'll have better rats there and may make some more progress. Who knows - you might find that you like it there. Lots of PVP and ... if you pod someone - you're already in Coventry ... so to speak.


Now ... as to biomassing a character to get rid of a bad security status - you aren't supposed to do that. You know you're not supposed to do that - so ... don't do it. You've already screwed yourself once by doing something you weren't supposed to do ... I'd not take a chance on people in the forums saying it won't be so bad being right. They aren't the ones who are going to suffer the consequences - and CCP has already posted in this thread - so they know about your situation.

Besides - what would biomassing the character get you? You can already just use another of your 3 characters ... killing one of them off and getting in trouble for it - isn't going to help that.

Suck it up - take your medicine and move on.




Oh ... and as to Diplomacy ... check out the Social Skills and see what they say. It looks to me like Diplomacy helps with hostile Agents - but Fast Talk is supposed to help with Concord ... so that may be what you want. "Skill at interacting with Concord. 5% Bonus to effective security rating increase." Sorry I can't be of more help on which one of these does what.


Here's a few links on the subject ... but most of this has been covered. Just more details:

Sec Status Question - confirming what you've read here.

Piracy Guide

Criminal Flagging System


*shrug*

.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.24 02:40:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Lost Greybeard on 24/02/2011 02:41:46
Since this is a good thread to have on the Q&E forums, bump.

Also, mechanics for CONCORD (and how you messed them up) in bullet point form:

(1) Killing a player-operated ship lowers your rep with CONCORD (called security status on your character sheet). Whether you killed them in high sec, low sec, or (sometimes even) 0.0 does not matter. Whether the kill was legal (they shot you first or stole from you before you killed them) DOES NOT MATTER.

(2) Blowing up someone's ship produces a small, but significant, sec status loss (usually something like 1 or 2%, depending where you did it). You will not suffer this status loss if CONCORD has given you kill rights on your target (usually because they blew you up first or one side has declared war on the other). Killing a POD causes a fairly massive sec status loss (reported as high as 15% in some places, meaning that one podding will send you from 0 to -1.5 or from -5 to -5.75). You will ALWAYS suffer sec status loss for killing a pod anywhere but 0.0.

(3) CONCORD automatically blows your ship up if you have below the following sec status in a system of the corresponding security. CONCORD will NEVER kill your pod, so if you're stuck in a station you can leave in your pod:

* -2.0 or worse: 1.0 systems
* -2.5 or worse: 0.9 systems
* -3.0 or worse: 0.8 systems
* -3.5 or worse: 0.7 systems
* -4.0 or worse: 0.6 systems
* -4.5 or worse: 0.5 systems

(4) Sec status is repaired primarily by killing pirates. The amount of sec status gained is roughly proportional to the bounties on the pirates, and you gain status every 20 minutes based on the highest "level" pirate you killed in each system you've visited in that period. 0.0 and low sec (areas without CONCORD) intentionally have bigger/badder pirates than high sec so that you can farm it up faster if you're stuck there.

(5) There are other response teams than CONCORD out there. If you have a sec status lower than -5.0 with the NPC company or faction running a station, they will still let you dock, but when you undock they will release their security forces on you. Confusingly, you generally get low faction with high-security stations by doing missions to raise your faction with their enemies. This is not always obvious, so check your numbers before docking if you're unsure.

(6) If you blow people up in low sec, expect them to laugh and maybe come after you if they see you in system if it was a good fight. If you blow people up in high sec, expect your corp to be wardecced by someone (either a mercenary corp or the corp of someone you've ganked). If you're not in a player corp, be aware that if you hunt in the same place all the time people will start setting traps for you.

(EDIT: Because I are smart math guy with multiplications)

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.02.24 07:01:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 24/02/2011 07:01:05
Originally by: Lost Greybeard

(3) CONCORD automatically blows your ship up if you have below the following sec status in a system of the corresponding security. CONCORD will NEVER kill your pod, so if you're stuck in a station you can leave in your pod:

* -2.0 or worse: 1.0 systems
* -2.5 or worse: 0.9 systems
* -3.0 or worse: 0.8 systems
* -3.5 or worse: 0.7 systems
* -4.0 or worse: 0.6 systems
* -4.5 or worse: 0.5 systems



This part actually isn't correct... except in CONCORD held systems. It's actually the Faction POLICE (not to be confused with the Faction NAVY) that attack you if your sec-status is too low. They won't insta-gank you like CONCORD but they do hurt and make travel in large ships quite difficult (as they web AND scram).

gfldex
Posted - 2011.02.24 10:06:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Anthony Makken
would petitioning be my only way?


_If_ you got two additional sec hits from getting shot by CONCORD (I doubt it) you can and should petition it. You will for shure not get the initial sec hit removed. You got a warning message and choose to ignore it.

A bug report would help too.

Cygnus Zhada
Viziam
Posted - 2011.02.24 10:10:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Anthony Makken
what is the quickest way to improve my security rating. or is missioning the only way.

and would petitioning be my only way?


If you're really the victim of the game messing up then I would petition to have the status you lost to undocking reverted (not the sec lost over attacking a target, obviously).

If that doesn't help (enough) you're best off in 0.0. If you're not part of any of the 0.0 blobs your best bet is npc space, get yourself a cloaky ship like a bomber and go ratting. You gain sec status for the biggest rat you kill every 20 minutes. You can reset that timer by jumping system, so the best thing to do is find 2 decently quiet systems and then kill a BS, jump to next system, kill a BS, jump back. etc etc.

That way you gain sec status back fairly fast.

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2011.02.24 15:57:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: DeMichael Crimson on 24/02/2011 15:59:05

Post #10 and above is all very good information.

Train the skill 'Fast Talk' asap, at least to level 4. That will greatly increase the amount of security status increase gained.

Also, you don't have to go to low security or 0.0 to raise your security status. The gains are based on the single highest level NPC killed within 15 to 20 minutes. Since you're a new player, you can run the Anomaly's in 0.6 and 0.5 high security systems along with the 'Landmark' beacon sites showing in the overview.

After a while that should get your security status back up to allow you access to 1.0 high security system.

However if you happen to do Piracy again, you'll probably have to jump up to larger NPC's next time.

Anthony Makken
Caldari
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2011.02.24 17:15:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Killing a POD causes a fairly massive sec status loss (reported as high as 15% in some places, meaning that one podding will send you from 0 to -1.5)


That ONE pod-kill gave me a -37.6632%. I went from i believe 0.01 to now -3.37.

Is that in any way normal?

Mina Banestar
Posted - 2011.02.24 17:17:00 - [18]
 

probably yes, first ever pod kill on the character and in a 1.0 sec system, in my imperfect understanding of the sec status rules thats pretty much maxed out in terms of how much sec you can lose in one go.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.24 20:57:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Anthony Makken
Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Killing a POD causes a fairly massive sec status loss (reported as high as 15% in some places, meaning that one podding will send you from 0 to -1.5)


That ONE pod-kill gave me a -37.6632%. I went from i believe 0.01 to now -3.37.

Is that in any way normal?


That's higher than I've ever heard of. Possibly you were in a 1.0 security system? I don't thin anyone's sure what the scaling is at that point, since it's best to avoid pvp in those areas for other reasons (the GMs sometimes apply normal-person standards for 'griefing' when it's a 1.0 system with people under 6m SP, rather than the usual, almost-nonexistent Eve standards).

It's worth petitioning it to find out, I guess. If it's a bug, the GMs might help you out, and if it's not, you've got a "the more you know" moment.

Remember that you lost sec status for the ship kill, as well, and that's probably some of it.

Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Posted - 2011.02.25 00:14:00 - [20]
 

That sec loss looks about right for a podding in a 1.0. Podding in hisec space is seriously frowned on, and yes, a single podding is enough to screw you, as the OP has seen first hand.

True story: Joined a corp with an alt, proceeded to somehow manage to offend the alliance 'leaders' e-honor who in quick order threatened to pod me. I looked at his sec status and he was barely above 0, and his bio was a bunch of anti pirate stupidity, so I happily allowed the guy to pod my noob alt, just so that his high and righteous antipirate characters standings would be hosed. fortunately he did not consider those consequences and after podding me realised what he had done and was even more mad at me. Needless to say I left that corp and found a different mark, as that place was too hot to properly run a con.

Anthony Makken
Caldari
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2011.02.25 00:47:00 - [21]
 

thats just too bad. i dont have any problem with the ridiculous punishment i just wish i was made aware that podding is frowned upon

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2011.02.25 00:53:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Anthony Makken
thats just too bad. i dont have any problem with the ridiculous punishment i just wish i was made aware that podding is frowned upon


well there should have been a warning, similar to the one that says "Are you sure you want to commit and aggressive act?"

cause if someone is agressed to you and you kill them they pod automatically wont be agressed and ud get the message as if u were shooting any other carebear

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.02.25 11:47:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Anthony Makken
thats just too bad. i dont have any problem with the ridiculous punishment i just wish i was made aware that podding is frowned upon



If you don't have a problem with it - why is it "ridiculous"?

You got a warning screen that popped up on your computer that you had to click through in order to shoot that pod. Unless you turned that off - that ALWAYS appears before you commit a criminal act that Concord will blow up your ship for.

You may not have realized the seriousness of the act - but you were warned not to do it.

Sometimes when I'm running a mission or something - I will suddenly see that warning pop up on the screen. That means that I have made a mistake in my targeting - and want to immediately rethink what I was about to do.

If you click through that warning and complete the act that caused it - you can pretty much guarantee a visit from Concord - which at a minimum - is going to blow up your ship.

Now you may be paying a stiff penalty for not understanding what that could mean - but if you are ever in a very expensive ship - and see that warning - hopefully this incident will teach you NOT to just click through it. There are people who have lost VERY expensive ships from doing that.

The security levels in this game will NOT protect you from being ganked and podded - but - if the people who did that didn't pay some kind of a penalty - the security levels would be worthless. Loss of security status is the most telling of those punishments as it's the only one with any long term repercussions. Theft has a 20 minute statute of limitations - which is a joke - and THEN that's only so that YOU can take matters into your own hands - Concord will do Nothing about theft.

EVE has been described as a game developed by pirates (Iceland was not settled by Monks ...) - for pirates - with everyone else there simply to give the pirates someone to victimize.

What penalties there are - are easily ignorable - if you know how to do it. You've been given a list of ways to take care of your situation. If you want to be a pirate - then learn how to be a pirate. Don't just whine about getting punished because you screwed up.

Pirates have no sympathy for the plight of the people they victimize - and laugh, taking great joy and satisfaction in "tear extraction". Don't expect anyone else to have any sympathy for you when you - as a pirate - end up being the one to get screwed - because you screwed up.


Now - being a pirate - is part of this game. You are allowed to victimize other players. You are also allowed to lie to them and scam them out of everything they own in the game if you can do it.

Here's some Goons Enforcing Their Recruitment Policy ...

But - there are a few ways that you can screw up and get hurt too in this process. You just found one of them. Learn from your experience and - be a better pirate in the future ... if you still want to be a pirate.

You can do pretty much anything you want in this game - there are just consequences to your actions.

.

gfldex
Posted - 2011.02.25 14:54:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
You got a warning screen that popped up on your computer that you had to click through in order to shoot that pod.


The next time you see that warning message try to forget anything you know about rules of engagement. Then try to predict what will happen if you preceed with your action based on what is written on screen.

What happend to the OP is for sure not ridiculous. The "warning" message is just not very helpful. At the other hand education is nothing that comes to you by itself and investing a bit more time to find a proper corp can pay out very quickly.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:33:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 25/02/2011 21:41:38
To quote the OP:

"the[n] concord quickly destroyed my ship as usual."

Sounds like he knew he wasn't supposed to do what he was being warned against ...

Sounds like he'd made a practice of attacking other players ...

Sounds to me - like he didn't fully appreciate the trouble he was going to get into and got burned.

And ... I'm supposed to feel some sympathy for him ... why?

People who make it their business to go around victimizing other players - have no call to whine themselves when they get reamed - but they do.

Now he's received a fairly thorough education in the Criminal Flagging System.

If someone wants to be a Pirate - that is a major part of this game. They are allowed to do that - and mostly - only receive a slap on the wrist. Ooops. He ****ed up and ... got a spanking.

If some care bear screws up - and gets royally screwed by some pirate - the pirate is going to laugh at him - and blame the care bear for his own misfortune. "If you don't like it - go back to WoW - *****."

Yeah - that's how this game is. If you screw up - even if you had no idea you were screwing up until after it happened - to bad. The Care Bear who blunders into low sec in a ship he just spent all his money buying - and gets blown up and podded with all his expensive implants - is going to be laughed at if he complains about it.

Why should a pirate who has screwed himself - get any more sympathy?


When I see that warning - I don't just click through it - I don't do what I was about to do. People who do - pay whatever consequences there are to pay - even if they didn't know what they were.

You can bet that he knows now though.

This game has a steep learning curve and we've ALL done things that were major blunders because we didn't realize at the time what major blunders they were going to be. God knows I have.

Are we supposed to just have the GM's hold everybody's hand and say "Oh ... that's OK ... you didn't know ... we'll fix that for you so you won't be inconvenienced ..."

Are they going to refund that Care Bear who lost everything because he didn't pay attention to that warning that pops up saying (in effect) "You're Going Into Lo Sec. You can get blown up"? Hunh? No. They aren't going to do that any more than they should grant a petition for this guy.

He's been given really good advice by a number of people, including myself, on what he can do about his situation. He even got a reply from CCP(!!!!) He just needs to learn from this experience - just like that Care Bear that lost all his stuff - and move on.

He's done the right thing coming here to find out what happened. He asked - and we explained to him why he's in the situation he's in. Now he knows and he knows what his options are.

Help and advice on how to play the game he deserves - sympathy & special treatment - no.

.

M'ktakh
Posted - 2011.02.25 21:52:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: M''ktakh on 25/02/2011 21:54:58
A tengently related problem here.

I suicide ganked someone, got the 15 minutes of GCC. Foolishly undocked while it was still recovering, got it reset. Waited it out. Then I undocked to find faction police shooting me.

My sec status is still positive, my effective standing with said faction has not changed (and I have not been shot before by them), so why has this happened to me?

The system is 0.9, but I have been happily cruising around in it with my -2.71 effective factional standing for ages.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.02.25 22:09:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: M'ktakh
Edited by: M''ktakh on 25/02/2011 21:54:58
A tengently related problem here.

I suicide ganked someone, got the 15 minutes of GCC. Foolishly undocked while it was still recovering, got it reset. Waited it out. Then I undocked to find faction police shooting me.

My sec status is still positive, my effective standing with said faction has not changed (and I have not been shot before by them), so why has this happened to me?

The system is 0.9, but I have been happily cruising around in it with my -2.71 effective factional standing for ages.


Check LostGreybeard's post above on the security ratings for the various system levels.

It sounds like you just slipped below a threshold ... even if it may not have shown up yet.

Try logging out and logging back in ...

The other thing you can do is go to your standings in your character sheet and right click on a corporation or faction and then show "transactions" that may give you an idea of what's happened.


I've not done any ganking myself so I'm not really familiar with the way things drop - but I have run missions - where my standings SAID I should be able to talk to an agent - but they wouldn't talk to me. I believe that logging in and out updated that and then I could talk to the agent. Maybe that's what's happening here.

???

.

Anthony Makken
Caldari
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2011.02.25 22:11:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Xercodo
Originally by: Anthony Makken
thats just too bad. i dont have any problem with the ridiculous punishment i just wish i was made aware that podding is frowned upon


well there should have been a warning, similar to the one that says "Are you sure you want to commit and aggressive act?"

cause if someone is agressed to you and you kill them they pod automatically wont be agressed and ud get the message as if u were shooting any other carebear


i know what warning message you are referring too and i never shut it off to try to prevent what has already happened. but it DID NOT show up before i attacked his pod.

gfldex
Posted - 2011.02.26 11:10:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Anthony Makken
i know what warning message you are referring too and i never shut it off to try to prevent what has already happened. but it DID NOT show up before i attacked his pod.


File a bug report. If that report is confirmed file a petition and reference the bug report. Since CCP is to lazy to write a proper rulebook for the game they sell it's their turn to deal with arising problems.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.02.26 11:42:00 - [30]
 

If he really didn't get that warning - then that would change things some.

I checked in the ESC menu and there are three different panels in there for resetting your settings. One of which is for resetting your warnings. If you turn off say - the Warning about a "one way move" into a corporate hangar - then a little reset button pops up in that panel.

I then went out in a rookie ship (just in case ...), targeted the base and clicked on fire - got my "You are about to make a dangerous act" message - turned it off (and then clicked NO so I wouldn't fire at the base - and went to look if that reset button had popped up in that panel for resetting warnings - it did NOT.

So I wrote a petition about - "What is the scope on this and ... OBTW ... how to I turn that thing back on?" There is a reset all settings button - which might do it - but if it doesn't and I test it by shooting at the base ... I'll find out it didn't reset by getting blown up and taking a minor security hit.

Anyway - no reply last I checked on that.

You'd think that if there was ever a warning message the players should be able to reset - that would be it ...


I tested that functionality with 3 warnings that appeared in there. I reset each one - then turned at least one of them back off - and the reset button for that function came right back up.

*shrug*

We'll see ...

The problem here I was hoping to address was - whether or not he had turned that warning off. If there had been a little reset button for that showing in his reset warnings panel - he would be able to tell that it had been turned off. Since that button doesn't pop up as I expected it to - we don't have a way I know of of checking - other than him doing something like targeting a station (or someone's jet can or whatever) and testing to see if that warning is still coming up if he tries to fire on it. Given the security hit he's just taken - I'm hesitant to recommend he takes another one ... even if it is much slighter than he got for podding someone in 1.0 space.


.


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