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blankseplocked High-sec Incursion Loot Ninjas = Broken?
 
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Jeb Vacano
Posted - 2011.02.23 04:22:00 - [31]
 

I can think of only one way to successfully ruin my day if I am going for your loot. Have one guy in a cheap tackle frig drop fleet, then the rest of you warp off while he scrams me. Even if concord kicks his ass I'll still be all alone against the mom. That's gonna hurt.

Wtf Pwnage
Posted - 2011.02.23 05:56:00 - [32]
 

Not really ideal, since every second the fleet isn't in the fight is dps lost to another fleet. Remember, there's never just 1 fleet.

Medarr
Amarr
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.02.23 06:55:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
Not really ideal, since every second the fleet isn't in the fight is dps lost to another fleet. Remember, there's never just 1 fleet.


Not true we have done plenty of solo kills. Also.. use a smartbomb battleship like we did? That worked just fine ask the ninjas hehehe

Wtf Pwnage
Posted - 2011.02.23 07:15:00 - [34]
 

Well while I'm sure solo kills happen, I think multiple fleets (2 fleets) is more common. Just my opinion. The smartbomb idea was tossed around today. We'll see. I don't think people like jeb will mind a little smartbomb dmg, but it may scare the shuttle ninjas away. Who knows.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.02.23 08:04:00 - [35]
 

why should looting mechanics be different for incursions?
If you're in high sec, you have to follow high sec rules, which may imply ninja looters.
If you dont like it, go to lowsec or 0.0, there should be no problems like that.

Junko Sideswipe
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.02.23 15:08:00 - [36]
 

Welcome to teh own zone, population = yuo. CoolCoolCool

Imiarr Timshae
Caldari
Funny Men In Funny Hats
Posted - 2011.02.23 16:19:00 - [37]
 

100m Loot Ninja looter is small time ninja looter. Quit whining.

Frank Shitlitz
Posted - 2011.02.23 17:03:00 - [38]
 

Seeing as how I would lurv it if drop rates from PvP were increased, I am tempted to go ninja some incursion loot and then just sit there waiting to be blown up. Nothing makes juicier whine threads than entitled people "losing" gear.

Now if I could only find the auto-loot bot script so many people use.

Captain Brickwalle
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:48:00 - [39]
 

Oh this is an easy one.

Make wrecks done by fleets owned by the fleet not the player who made the final blow.

After that the mechanic for aggression is already in place.

Frank Shitlitz
Posted - 2011.02.23 21:10:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Captain Brickwalle
Oh this is an easy one.

Make wrecks done by fleets owned by the fleet not the player who made the final blow.

After that the mechanic for aggression is already in place.


The awesomeness of fleet ownership (not player/corp ownership)is far too great for these lowly forums!

Think of all the NPC corp goodness that can come of this!

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.02.23 22:17:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 23/02/2011 03:46:01
Today, during our successful shield fleet takedown of a Sansha Nation Mom in Amarr High sec, it came to my attention that CCP has not addressed what is apparently a very common and obviously broken Incursion experience: the MOM LOOT NINJA.

I am aware, that like normal high sec ops, people are capable of stealing and getting flagged. However, in the 80+ man environment of a MOM battle (with said MOM constantly dropping from overview), it is impossible to prevent an assault ship from stealing 100M in a second.

Player "Itc" today took our TS PDS and a BP for a Phantasm. How are we supposed to stop him? I could see scramming him in Low sec, or putting a bubble up in null sec, but tell me how High sec pilots are supposed to prevent people from taking the loot they worked all day to make. I'm just looking for a solution to what is obviously a design problem from CCP as I see it. How do you prevent someone from ninja-ing the main loot from high sec Moms? It's bad enough we get lower payouts, no Mom ship drops, and restricted Incursion opportunities due to sec. status(which we can grind, I understand, but my point being O.O doesn't have the problem), but this is simply wrong to have to deal with. Any 1 day old character could ninja this stuff, consequence free.

Awaiting your reply,

wtf


High sec is not ment to be the school of new players but killmail runners and yellow cowards paradise has you've seen by yourself.

Wtf Pwnage
Posted - 2011.02.24 01:20:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 24/02/2011 01:20:37
Yeah again today. Another Mom kill...and the loot didn't even drop. Or maybe it did, but loot scripts got it before any human had a chance. Also, the pirate is only flashy to the person who got a killing blow. No one else. So another difference between this and lvl 4 ninjas. At least you can shoot those guys.

Dev...can you please just take away the loot? Seriously.

Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.02.24 08:09:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 24/02/2011 01:20:37
Yeah again today. Another Mom kill...and the loot didn't even drop. Or maybe it did, but loot scripts got it before any human had a chance. Also, the pirate is only flashy to the person who got a killing blow. No one else. So another difference between this and lvl 4 ninjas. At least you can shoot those guys.

Dev...can you please just take away the loot? Seriously.

One side you whining because you don't get loot, and then you ask to remove the loot? Either way you didn't get any loot so quit your whining about loot stealing if you don't want the loot anyway.

And as an earlier poster said, the only fix that is needed is that the wreck ownerships goes to the fleet with the most dps (the one that gets the LP).

Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.02.24 09:05:00 - [44]
 

working as intended
you dont like it? go to low sec and do it.

Wtf Pwnage
Posted - 2011.02.24 14:47:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 24/02/2011 14:53:28
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 24/02/2011 14:52:56
Edited by: Wtf Pwnage on 24/02/2011 14:48:56
Quote:
One side you whining because you don't get loot, and then you ask to remove the loot? Either way you didn't get any loot so quit your whining about loot stealing if you don't want the loot anyway.

And as an earlier poster said, the only fix that is needed is that the wreck ownerships goes to the fleet with the most dps (the one that gets the LP).


I am simply identifying a loot problem, which very obviously exists (as you pointed out, the whole fleet doesn't have rights, just 1 person). So. My point is, how are you supposed to stop them? The last post wasn't a whine, but an identification, that these players aren't even abiding by the EULA. They are using scripts to auto-loot before normal, hard-working players (actually doing Incursion) can even see it, much less target it.

And for everyone who says "go to low-sec", what does that even mean?? High sec Incursions wouldn't even get done if everyone followed your logic. Your solution to a problem is to run away? How do you handle your RL problems...?

Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.02.24 14:54:00 - [46]
 

CCP have a good track record on this.

Simply invoke the power of eleventy hundred carebear whine threads, wait three weeks. Epic Fix, the likes of which even the Gods have never seen.

De Guantanamo
Posted - 2011.02.24 16:12:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
these players aren't even abiding by the EULA. They are using scripts to auto-loot before normal, hard-working players (actually doing Incursion) can even see it, much less target it.


And you can prove that can you?

Quote:
And for everyone who says "go to low-sec", what does that even mean?? High sec Incursions wouldn't even get done if everyone followed your logic. Your solution to a problem is to run away? How do you handle your RL problems...?



Not too bright are you? In low sec you could shoot people that are preparing to "steal" your loot prior to killing the mom. Thus, no potential loot thieves.

Wtf Pwnage
Posted - 2011.02.25 02:36:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: De Guantanamo
Originally by: Wtf Pwnage
these players aren't even abiding by the EULA. They are using scripts to auto-loot before normal, hard-working players (actually doing Incursion) can even see it, much less target it.


And you can prove that can you?

Quote:
And for everyone who says "go to low-sec", what does that even mean?? High sec Incursions wouldn't even get done if everyone followed your logic. Your solution to a problem is to run away? How do you handle your RL problems...?





Not too bright are you? In low sec you could shoot people that are preparing to "steal" your loot prior to killing the mom. Thus, no potential loot thieves.


1) Sure you can prove it. it's just not worth it, since they'll just make a new account.

2) no I don't want to solve a High sec problem by going to low sec. How about fixing high sec? I never said there was a problem shooting people in low sec, or that it wasn't possible. Read my post, instead of implying I said something I didn't.

Sillas Cov
Red Federation
Posted - 2011.02.25 02:45:00 - [49]
 

Yes please deal with this Issue CCP Pilots work hard and need to be rewarded not have their loot nija-ed

Gaufres
Posted - 2011.02.25 04:39:00 - [50]
 

No difference between what you are complaining about and mission thieves. Sucks doesn't it?

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2011.02.25 05:44:00 - [51]
 

This is about the main problem with eve, those who wish to break the laws are rewarded and protected by the same laws they break. The game is designed to help the criminal it seems and punish those who wish to act in a civilized manner. The mechanic of being able to be entering warp and grab the loot from a can truly approaches being an exploit. The fact a thief receives no aggression timer to prevent them from using gates or docking for even 30 seconds makes it all but impossible to catch them no matter how prepared you are in high sec.

The game doesn't have mechanically stop theft or so many other criminal type activities but the protections should wear down, steal to often and you should be criminally flagged, concord shouldn't come but anyone who wants to should be able to shoot you.

The is a broken sandbox skewed heavily in favor of the criminals and chaos, people who wish to enforce law are punished as severely as the criminals because it is so easy for the criminals to gain back sec status or just hid in an NPC corp that can't be dec'd. Even the current sov system is skewed heavily in favor of the attacker. Us people who wish to be law abiding citizens have little protection from those laws and those laws in turn make it very difficult to protect ourselves.


Wet Dreamer
Posted - 2011.02.25 12:45:00 - [52]
 

Quote:
They are using scripts to auto-loot before normal, hard-working players (actually doing Incursion) can even see it, much less target it.



What about 'Bind on Pickup?'


Gaufres
Posted - 2011.02.25 14:56:00 - [53]
 

I agree with you, Eve favors criminals and CCP does not want to do anything to change it or even balance it out. Many examples of this exist and have been discussed adnausium on the Forum.

Fyrgen Hith
Posted - 2011.02.25 19:19:00 - [54]
 

As the Armor fleet has been commenting on for weeks, in high-sec there simply isn't any way you can shoot the looters after they've looted the mom and you 100% going to get concorded before hand. All we really want is the ability for the whole winning fleet to be able to shoo the looter. And as for the extra 1mil per person thing, yes and no, usually loot is given/sold&split to those that lose ships.

As said before unless you've been a lot of mom fights you don't get why is bothers us so much.

De Guantanamo
Posted - 2011.02.25 19:36:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Kalia Masaer
This is about the main problem with eve, those who wish to break the laws are rewarded and protected by the same laws they break. The game is designed to help the criminal it seems and punish those who wish to act in a civilized manner. The mechanic of being able to be entering warp and grab the loot from a can truly approaches being an exploit. The fact a thief receives no aggression timer to prevent them from using gates or docking for even 30 seconds makes it all but impossible to catch them no matter how prepared you are in high sec.

The game doesn't have mechanically stop theft or so many other criminal type activities but the protections should wear down, steal to often and you should be criminally flagged, concord shouldn't come but anyone who wants to should be able to shoot you.

The is a broken sandbox skewed heavily in favor of the criminals and chaos, people who wish to enforce law are punished as severely as the criminals because it is so easy for the criminals to gain back sec status or just hid in an NPC corp that can't be dec'd. Even the current sov system is skewed heavily in favor of the attacker. Us people who wish to be law abiding citizens have little protection from those laws and those laws in turn make it very difficult to protect ourselves.




Dude.

Its a game.

There are no laws..just some rules...like games have.

I think you need to remove yourself from it for a while...

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2011.02.26 00:41:00 - [56]
 

It is indeed a game, but I like being the good guy in games. In eve there are no good guys, just bad guys and victims that is stupid.

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2011.02.26 01:51:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: De Guantanamo
Dude.

Its a game.

There are no laws..just some rules...like games have.

I think you need to remove yourself from it for a while...

Dude.

Games are supposed to be balanced.

There are nice players and asshat players ... like real life has.

If one of those groups is favoured, that means no balance, hence people post in this forum.

I think you shouldn't post in this forum if you don't get that concept.

De Guantanamo
Posted - 2011.02.26 01:58:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: De Guantanamo
Dude.

Its a game.

There are no laws..just some rules...like games have.

I think you need to remove yourself from it for a while...

Dude.

Games are supposed to be balanced.

There are nice players and asshat players ... like real life has.

If one of those groups is favoured, that means no balance, hence people post in this forum.

I think you shouldn't post in this forum if you don't get that concept.


you're an idiot

hes talking about laws in game like we should all play by some moral code

its a damn game...and the repercussions aren't imbalanced, there are penalties for doing "bad" things

it just so happens that in eve you can redeem yourself by ratting sec status

remind me again how there is an imbalance?

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2011.02.26 02:35:00 - [59]
 

Explain to me the repercussions of snatching loot as you are entering warp to dock immediately at a station, and you are in an NPC corp. Just wait out the aggro timer and huzza no one can do anything too you short of suicide ganking them. Or maybe they just do it on a free trial account.

Explain to me the repercussions of making a scamming alt. Well you never undock and always trade to the character so their is no trail to the main and when you think they might be recognized you create another account. So there are no consequences.

There are many activities like this where there are no repercussions leveled by the game mechanics or that can by leveled bye players, and you will tell me the game is balanced.

Try and police an area of low sec, your sec status will be lower than the pirates you are trying to prevent from killing people, because if you wait for someone to shoot first the miner you are protecting is dead. So essentially you become a criminal and have every disadvantage the pirates have with the disadvantage of having to identify you target or falling victim to people who hunt criminals.

n00n3r
Caldari
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2011.02.26 03:55:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Captain Brickwalle
Oh this is an easy one.

Make wrecks done by fleets owned by the fleet not the player who made the final blow.

After that the mechanic for aggression is already in place.


Actually, it's the corporation that laid the final blow. Since you guys are flying all public fleets, you're easy pickings for ninja looters.

Sounds to me like a good reason to join an Incursion Corp. It wouldn't matter how well that ship is tanked if 50 people scram/alpha him.

Just saying..

n00n


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