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Serious Internet Politician
www.seriousinternetpolitician.com
Posted - 2011.03.11 03:50:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow on 10/03/2011 12:02:31
Originally by: Avaaloniaa
Hi Trebor,
Have you had any news on this matter [scalable UI and EVE font], please?
Thank you in advance!

I inquired, and received a brief internal reply. I (and Mynxee and Dierdra Vaal) have requested some more details.

I hope to be able to provide a more detailed answer soon.


Hi Trebor. If you look in the eve stuff files there are new fonts already (they've actually been there for a while now) that aren't in use ingame. They're much easier to read than the current one although they're obviously based off them. Maybe half of this question has already been done.

Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.03.11 05:47:00 - [182]
 

Edited by: Nerodon on 11/03/2011 05:51:16
Originally by: Kireiina
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

The CSM does not need a chairman who will rally the other delegates to storm Castle Reykjavik, pitchforks and torches in hand.



Yes... it actually does. I'm not an Eve veteran but the only times I've seen CCP actually *do* anything is when the playerbase is unified and furious at them. And in the case of botting not even then.

I mean the real activity from the last CSM came once "18 months" had leaked into the wider gaming media. No one knows what the CSM discussed and given that CCP had zero resources to allocate for anything that was raised it was irrelevant.

"Good, hardworking people" get ignored by CCP, the CSM gets used as a convenient media relations exercise / rubber-stamp and then they go off and do what they had planned long before you showed up.



If by "playerbase is unified and furious at them" you mean the 5% of them that are screaming in the forums?

I can't seriously believe they are still people who thought that for 18 months they're wasn't going to be "anything" devoted to Eve. This "rumor" arised from a misinterpretation of the CCP team allocation chart and sheer pessimism of some very loud forum hogs who spent their days just broadcasting their miscontentment with the game. The CSM has helped the changes come through very progressively as their role became a bit more defined over time, also, these changes were mostly incorporated during the Tyrannis/Incursion expansion production timelines (Which by the way, were full of content for the space eve evidently). The 18-month rumor was never a deciding factor in the evolution of the CSM roles, in fact, that's all it was, a rumor.

And I'm pretty sure CCP does an excellent job ignoring the loud forum hogs because they know that they don't necessarily represent the playerbase.

The CSM on the other hand, they do represent the players, they do it in a contructive way rather than by screaming and shouting. I believe that that's what Trebor was trying to say. Expressing miscontentement agressively to CCP is probably not the most effective way. He favors a more diplomatic method where analysis of the problems at hand can be done in a more civil and contructive manner.

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.11 07:29:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: ******AHalfShell
What does me good is voting my conscience rather than being a blinkered idiot who votes as a bloc for a Goon Captain because she is told to, or for a guy who spins so much he has his own gravitational field because I HATE GOONIES GRR, which just means that we'll end up with another bunch of insufferable ****s instead of people who might actually do something decent. Welp.



Oddly, at least we have common ground. At least this much is somewhat reassuring.

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.11 07:53:00 - [184]
 

Edited by: Johnathan Walker on 11/03/2011 17:17:25
Originally by: Hephaestus nu
I can't actually believe anyone around can take the fact of being member of CSM5 as a good point ...

i really wonder what was CSM5 exactly doing ?




I'll tell you, from an outsider's perspective, what CSM5 was "exactly doing":


- CSM5 publicly engaged, in a very visible manner, the players at large in crowd sourcing efforts.
November 2010 Crowdsourcing
August 2010 Crowdsourcing

- CSM5 aggressively pressured CCP regarding the often cited "backlog" for timelines and deliverables. In the June Summit which Mynxee blogged about, it was discovered then that Currently, there is no process in place to ensure that CSM issues placed in the backlog are properly tagged, named, or otherwise identified for purposes of querying or tracking.


This second point alone is massive; forget campaign promises, forget "If elected, I will..." speeches. The very core of keeping track of our ideas was found to be sorely lacking. No member of CSM 1, CSM 2, CSM 3 or CSM 4 sat down with a copy of Hansoft (used by CCP), went through the wiki, and produced a list of items from records to push back on to CCP. As a result of efforts by CSM5, we were provided with the June 2010 CCP Deliverables.


If anyone is serious about the CSM, having this kind of public call to accountability and with measured, transparent updates from CCP is critical to the entire effort of both sides. Unless this continues to be pushed, all other points are moot. Forget lag, forget 0.0, forget industry or missions or botting... if your questions and concerns are lost in the "shuffle", it is all pointless.

In short, CSM5 loudly, professionally, and aggressively called CCP to be accountable to us all with such dedication, perseverance and skillful execution that refusal to comment was not an option. We, the community, won a major battle and the work goes on.



THAT, among hundreds of other examples, is the level of commitment CSM5 brought to the table... and with that in mind, should be one of many dominating factors to re-elect Trebor; I would be hard pressed to split my votes were all previous CSM5 candidates running.

Hephaestus nu
Posted - 2011.03.11 08:59:00 - [185]
 

Those list is the proof of what i say about CSM5.

We have new icons on faction ammo, new mwd icons, nice that's such a huge leap forward, i mean the game was absolutely dying because of that !

You just forgot to speak about what interest real players around ... balance ... Why an honest miner player should end up with a ****ty gameplay in front of a rock for 1 hour to get a ridiculous amount of isk ? Because there are thousand of bots around that makes the same thing 24/24h and ruins the economy of the honest player.

What actually did CSM5 about that ? NOTHING.

Why should a caldari player discover he is just good to be a joke in pvp ?
Why his missiles are only good to fill space with lags and never reach their target who has already been destroyed by muns or lasers ? That's minimum a 1/4 th of the population of eve that has to make an alt to be able to enjoy even just a little PVP (should it be nullsec/lowsec or factionnal).

What actually did CSM5 about that ? NOTHING.


Nah, instead of this you guys have faction icons on your missiles or modules .... After the "farmville" PI, you can try to do a corp hangar Mahjong. CSM5 really saved the day.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.11 09:48:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Miss Xoco
Edited by: Miss Xoco on 10/03/2011 14:13:06
If just would like 1 thing: .. [makes 4 suggestions] ..

If you bring something of that stuff up i will vote, since you did already great work on way to many improvements which i was considering a great addition.

No CSM can just bring things up for a vote. Before that can happen, a proposal has to be raised in Assembly Hall, and if it gets sufficient support, an interested CSM will raise in one of our meetings. Often ideas are tested and refined in Features & Ideas before being moved to the Assembly Hall.

This process is slow and requires some effort, but that is by design. It makes sure that proposals are subject to scrutiny (and hopefully improvement), first by players, then by an interested CSM, and finally by the full council.

Proposals that make it through this gauntlet are hopefully battle-tested enough to give them a chance of getting noticed by CCP.

PS: My apologies for getting a bit behind in replying to questions in the thread. Yesterday was a wonderful day -- my eldest son was accepted into his college of choice, and there was much celebration -- but that meant I had less time to devote to composing replies.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.11 13:24:00 - [187]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 11/03/2011 13:26:28
Originally by: Serious Internet Politician
Hi Trebor. If you look in the eve stuff files there are new fonts already (they've actually been there for a while now) that aren't in use ingame. They're much easier to read than the current one although they're obviously based off them. Maybe half of this question has already been done.


The point is, we asked CCP in our internal forums--which our advocates monitor so that such questions can be passed on to the appropriate teams inside CCP--on 7 March for an update about the new font, including specific questions about the status of that font. Those questions have not been answered as of this post. The only response received so far was a sentence in response to an earlier question in that same thread related to sharing information with the community about the status of the new font. No promises made, so far.

Digging into .stuff files just provides one piece of isolated information: the fact that a different font is there. It does not answer the questions we asked about whether the new font CCP told us at the June Summit that it was commissioning is still a go; if so, what its current status is; and what the plan is right now regarding deploying a new font. The CSM has asked CCP a simple question that has a simple answer. We should not have to search through the EVE client data files or constantly monitor SiSi in an attempt to discover clues--the meaning of which we can only speculate about--that point only to possible answers to such questions.

On topics like this that were discussed at a Summit AND about which users make direct inquiries, it is not unreasonable to expect straightforward and timely answers from CCP. Especially for something as uncomplicated as a status update request.


Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.11 13:37:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Hephaestus nu
You just forgot to speak about what interest real players around ... balance ... Why an honest miner player should end up with a ****ty gameplay in front of a rock for 1 hour to get a ridiculous amount of isk ? Because there are thousand of bots around that makes the same thing 24/24h and ruins the economy of the honest player.

What actually did CSM5 about that ? NOTHING.


You're wrong there. We actually discussed quite a lot of balance issues at the June and December Summits. Balance-related proposals were part of the crowdsourcing exercises. Balance discussions have been conducted in our internal forums. If you bother to inform yourself about what CSM5 has done by reading the detailed information that is available to anyone who wants to know (and which has been typically been announced, linked, and discussed in this forum along the way), then I think you will come to a different conclusion than that CSM5 has done nothing. Just because your pet issues did not get attention doesn't mean we've been laying around eating bon-bon's for 10 months.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:29:00 - [189]
 

I just blogged about why I feel it is so important to vote in this election for a diverse CSM and for people who will fight the good fight for EVE, like Trebor.

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.11 17:31:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
I just blogged about why I feel it is so important to vote in this election for a diverse CSM and for people who will fight the good fight for EVE, like Trebor.



Wicked blog post Mynxee, and yes, this is indeed a call to arms. Well done!

Not Kalle Demos
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2011.03.11 18:01:00 - [191]
 

Trebor Daehdoow, I do hope to see you get in, you have alot of great ideas sadly NC envy you for your awesomeness but thats ok no one takes them serious (minus their minions)

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.11 18:57:00 - [192]
 

no one takes them seriously (besides the largest single faction of people in the game)

well then


Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.11 20:52:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Deandra Walran
Even though "TREBOR SUCKS", he's got my 2 votes.

Thanks for the Wizardry callout, but it's actually "TREBOR SUX"

Originally by: Serious Internet Politician
Hi Trebor. If you look in the eve stuff files there are new fonts already (they've actually been there for a while now) that aren't in use ingame. They're much easier to read than the current one although they're obviously based off them. Maybe half of this question has already been done.

Quite possibly, but as I said (and Mynxee comments on), I'm trying to get a clarification and possibly an ETA.

PS: Some of you may enjoy these election-themed lyrics. Twisted Evil

Deandra Walran
Posted - 2011.03.11 21:33:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Even though "TREBOR SUCKS", he's got my 2 votes.

Thanks for the Wizardry callout, but it's actually "TREBOR SUX"




My bad, but it has been at least 25 years since I've played that game? Very Happy Memory fades when you've done as many drugs as I have (not to mention being old).Embarassed

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.11 23:01:00 - [195]
 

A few questions for Trebor...

In CSM5, it was noted that there is concern about tracking of submitted items to CCP. What can we expect from CCP and CSM 6 going forward?

We have seen some comments indicating that new or improved tools would be of great benefit to future councils; are there any plans on either side to have this happen?

Will the CSM-News mailing list see an increase in activity this year?

Assuming top vote count, would you choose to go for chair of CSM6 or return to secretary duties (would you mind explaining your reasoning for either or)?


Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.12 03:51:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Nerodon
If by "playerbase is unified and furious at them" you mean the 5% of them that are screaming in the forums?

Well, to be fair, CCP does not have a lot else to go on. And also, people active on the forums tend to be the most engaged and best-informed players -- canaries in the coal mine, if you will.

Sure, some people over-reacted to :18months:. But a lot more expressed significant concerns over the allocation of resources CCP had decided upon and the apparent disconnect with the player-base.

And to CCP's credit, they did listen to the players, the level of engagement with the CSM rose, and some resources were reallocated.

The result was that the October meeting and the December summit were much more pleasant and productive for everyone. Sure, we raised significant concerns with CCP about microtransactions and Incarna (for example), but there were no "Are you kidding me?" moments like in June.

With respect to CCP and the forums, CCP does pay more attention to them than you might think. Some devs are afraid to engage for fear of being beaten up, but I think this is a mistake. Constructive personal engagement with the players has generated some significant benefits.

For example, last year CCP karkur approached the CSM about her skunk-works project to improve the contextual menus. We gave her some feedback, but I and other CSMs urged her to engage with the players directly. She did so, and the resulting thread was very helpful and made the end result better. Not to mention, it got her a coveted Tech-II Titanium Assault Spork.

And right now, CCP Sreegs seems to be following in her footsteps in a thread on bots.

I think this kind of engagement is just flat-out good business. It improves the game, and it builds connections between the players and the devs -- both of which directly impact the bottom-line through improved retention.

If I were CCP Hellmar, I would award significant prizes to the devs who demonstrate the best engagement with the players, both about game issues and socially. I think the return-on-investment is compelling.

PC l0adletter
Posted - 2011.03.12 03:55:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
return-on-investment


The evidence does not support that CCP has the faintest idea what that means

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.12 04:53:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow


If I were CCP Hellmar, I would award significant prizes to the devs who demonstrate the best engagement with the players, both about game issues and socially. I think the return-on-investment is compelling.



It sounds like this is precisely the kind of attention you've been trying to draw with the "spork" awards; totally agree!

Kirk Space
Posted - 2011.03.12 07:33:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Walker
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow


If I were CCP Hellmar, I would award significant prizes to the devs who demonstrate the best engagement with the players, both about game issues and socially. I think the return-on-investment is compelling.



It sounds like this is precisely the kind of attention you've been trying to draw with the "spork" awards; totally agree!


All that comes into my head after reading this is "You unctuous sycophant"

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.12 11:13:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Kirk Space
Originally by: Johnathan Walker
It sounds like this is precisely the kind of attention you've been trying to draw with the "spork" awards; totally agree!

All that comes into my head after reading this is "You unctuous sycophant"

I have to admit that Jonathan is one of my more enthusiastic supporters, and will probably be disappointed to learn that I cannot walk on water unless it is frozen, but his point is well taken.

The sporks, while entirely silly, are a token of appreciation for hard work that has helped the players and the CSM, intended to draw attention that effort, and encourage more of it.

If you support the CSM, and the devs that engage with the CSM, then you can join in the fun by bringing a spork to FanFest and displaying it. I'll bring some extras (plastic, not Titanium!) to give out.

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.03.12 12:12:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I'll bring some extras (plastic, not Titanium!) to give out.



Cheap gitt Wink


Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.12 12:46:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I'll bring some extras (plastic, not Titanium!) to give out.


Cheap gitt Wink


In order to get a Titanium spork, just like the devs, you must perform a meritorious service that benefits the players of EVE.

I always keep a few on my person, so if you manage to do so in my presence at FanFest, you might just get one on the spot.

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.03.12 12:59:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
you must perform a meritorious service that benefits the players of EVE.



I have a shiney presence.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.12 13:34:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
you must perform a meritorious service that benefits the players of EVE.

I have a shiney presence.

Upon reflection, that alone will not be sufficient. Twisted Evil

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.03.12 14:19:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

Upon reflection, that alone will not be sufficient. Twisted Evil


The women in my Corporation will not agree with you.

*checks wallet*

Yup, they won't agree with you.

Garrick Konquero
ImmCo
Posted - 2011.03.12 14:31:00 - [206]
 

I am impressed with your work on CSM5. Endorsed and good luck.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.12 21:13:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Walker
In CSM5, it was noted that there is concern about tracking of submitted items to CCP. What can we expect from CCP and CSM 6 going forward?

We have seen some comments indicating that new or improved tools would be of great benefit to future councils; are there any plans on either side to have this happen?

Will the CSM-News mailing list see an increase in activity this year?

Assuming top vote count, would you choose to go for chair of CSM6 or return to secretary duties (would you mind explaining your reasoning for either or)?

CCP Xhagen and CCP Diagoras have spent a lot of time making sure every CSM item in the backlog is tagged as being a CSM item, which increases their visibility. Teams now know that if they pick up a certain item because it's CSM, they'll get the additional bonus of some :hugs: and the potential for free beer at FanFest.

Not a big thing, but every little bit helps.

While there have been discussions about putting resources into extra CSM tools, I would prefer, if at all possible, that those resources be put into work that can benefit the entire player-base, not just 15 people (awesome though we all are). One possible avenue is forum-based tools that can be used for CSM tasks but are also adaptable for use by everyone else -- as anyone who has seen my stomach will tell you, I personally love to have my cake and eat it too.

CSM-News was intended to be a low-volume mailing list for important announcements, so as the manager I was reticent to put too much through it -- perhaps too reticent. It is worth considering making it a little bit noisier, so I have started an internal discussion about the feasibility of doing a weekly status update summarizing what issues the CSM is currently working on (NDA permitting).

Finally, with regard to your question about what I might do if I was elected Chairman, I can neither confirm nor deny the confirmation or denial of any potential plans I may or may not have to even consider the possibility of entertaining any thoughts in that regard whatsoever.

I trust this makes my position perfectly clear.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.13 09:31:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow on 13/03/2011 09:31:16
Just picked up an endorsement from the Eve Tribune:

Not someone we always agree with, and not someone in our political sphere in EVE, but through numerous conversations he's made it very clear that he loves the game and is committed to working within the CSM to improve it. We believe he should be re-elected and that he would help provide balance and still work cooperatively within the CSM.

Their choice for chairman was a classic example of an "off-by-1" error, however... Twisted Evil

Siecen K'Solaran
Posted - 2011.03.13 10:46:00 - [209]
 

Since you deleted my latest comment on your blog post I guess I'll have to post it here instead.

Allow me to refresh your memory: You said that either mittens would be bad for the CSM or he is lying, and ask "How can you trust a man whose entire election campaign is based on lies?"

I replied thusly:

"That's actually a really interesting question. The only reason I know who you are is your unsourced accusations (read: lies) about mittens' actions and intentions. Setting yourself up as the anti-goon candidate seems to be working out pretty well for you, so maybe you should try asking your constituents."

For those just joining us, the unsourced accusations in question are that mittens is involved in the supposed smear campaign against trebor, and that mittens "wants to try to use [the csm] as a vehicle to advance his own petty in-game interests, at the expense of the vast majority of the players of EVE."

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.13 12:50:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Siecen K'Solaran
For those just joining us, the unsourced accusations in question are that mittens is involved in the supposed smear campaign against trebor, and that mittens "wants to try to use [the csm] as a vehicle to advance his own petty in-game interests, at the expense of the vast majority of the players of EVE."

Why should he not delete your post when you don't even get the timeline right?

Originally by: Leaked before both SHC and Jita Corner got spammed by goons
(7:52:06 PM) directorbot@goonfleet.com/directorbot: Gentlegoons, some news. As you may not know, we had a 'fleet battle', the rarest of events today in eurotime against Ev0ke and PL; in a similarly rare event, Mister Vee screwed up and welped our fleet (while us welping is not rare, Vee usually doesn't err) This is a good time to grab new Alphafleet ships and be prepared for more bloc-level goodfights in euro tz going forward.

In CSM Politics news, we have found the powerbase of the pubbies who elected mouthbreathing idiots to the last CSM; apparently they live on ****heap, that forum where our anicent enemies in BoB used to congregate to hide behind the skirts of their own moderators. The SHC population remains hostile and hates our guts, hates nullsec, and is writing reams of conspiracy-fueled words about how we're out to ruin the game or ruin the CSM and 'why can't every candidate be just like Trebor' - who Helen Highwater identified as one of the most dangerous idiots on CSM5. Feel free to swing by their ~discussion thread~ to have a look at what our self-declared political enemies post like: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=39368 Things heat up in idiocville around page 21 when Vile Rat and I arrive.

*** This was a broadcast from themittani to all, replies are not monitored ***


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