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blankseplocked Whats wrong with the Moa?
 
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Valuv
Wraith.Wing
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2011.02.21 13:02:00 - [31]
 

Its problem is hybrids. Pure and simple.

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.02.21 13:23:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Wacktopia on 21/02/2011 13:27:41

Nothing wrong with this (needs 3% implant). 32k EHP with the invul heated up and 490 dps with the guns hot (444 with CN Antimatter)

Compare this to Garmon's Rupture, which has 29k EHP base tank and 430 dps with heat. One-on-one the Rupture could potentially kite using the web but in a small Gang this Moa would be fine.

You could swap mstab for t.enh to give Null a great range and reduced tracking penalty.

Granted this is not the best T1 cruiser but the fit below is completely viable.

Edit: The decent resists of this also make it a great option if you have shield Logi in your gang.

[Moa, NothingWrong]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Small Nosferatu II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Hobgoblin II x3

freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2011.02.21 15:58:00 - [33]
 

MOA! ewwww...

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.02.21 17:11:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Valuv
Its problem is hybrids. Pure and simple.


Have to disagree here, the problem is definitely the platform (as with most hybrid ships really).

The Moa just couldnt decide if it wanted to be a brawler or a sniper, and went for both.

It gets a sniper bonus (optimal range), and a brawler bonus (resists).

For the brawler role it simply lacks the corresponding damage bonus, a blaster boat that doesnt push your **** in when its up close isnt gonna work and the optimal range bonus is dying with the fact that you'll use antimatter quite regularly. You can make it work somewhat, but it isnt gonna be great.

For the sniper role the resist bonus is wasted, your tank is range and you cant really improve much on your EHP anyway as you need those slots to support the turret and sensor performance. Look at the Eagle for example, it can get close to the Muninn in terms or range and dps (minus volley), and excels in tank over other sniper HACs. But tanking is of little concern given you are gonna be shot last anyway unless your fleet is made of mostly tanky snipers.

If it could come to a decision if its supposed to brawl or snipe and get the bonuses adjusted, it would be an awesome ship.

Blaster platform with resist bonus and damage bonus would make it a great brawler with the additional benefit of a utility slot for a nos.

Sniper platform with range and tracking or damage bonus would be the other end of the deal, but then again cruiser snipers that arent HACs are not really in demand.

The Ferox suffers from the same identity crisis.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.02.21 19:59:00 - [35]
 

I'm not so critical of a resist bonus on snipers in principle - EHP is useful - but certainly a sniper Moa can't make good use of its resist bonus, as it lacks the medslots. But it also needs the lowslots for fitting mods because its PG is so anaemic. It would look more attractive with a few hundred MW more PG, and a lowslot moved to a medslot. But it would still be overshadowed by battlecruisers. Confused

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.02.21 20:45:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 21/02/2011 20:45:57
Whats wrong in general with Hybrid guns?
Im not a missioner Im a miner, I just see ppl saying theyre terrible.

Max Hardcase
The Scope
Posted - 2011.02.21 21:06:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 21/02/2011 20:45:57
Whats wrong in general with Hybrid guns?
Im not a missioner Im a miner, I just see ppl saying theyre terrible.

Horrible fittings on medium platforms, use too much cap for an ammo using gun. Neither fish nor fowl.

Tony SoXai
Posted - 2011.02.21 21:49:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Valuv
Its problem is hybrids. Pure and simple.


Have to disagree here, the problem is definitely the platform (as with most hybrid ships really).

The Moa just couldnt decide if it wanted to be a brawler or a sniper, and went for both.

It gets a sniper bonus (optimal range), and a brawler bonus (resists).

For the brawler role it simply lacks the corresponding damage bonus, a blaster boat that doesnt push your **** in when its up close isnt gonna work and the optimal range bonus is dying with the fact that you'll use antimatter quite regularly. You can make it work somewhat, but it isnt gonna be great.

For the sniper role the resist bonus is wasted, your tank is range and you cant really improve much on your EHP anyway as you need those slots to support the turret and sensor performance. Look at the Eagle for example, it can get close to the Muninn in terms or range and dps (minus volley), and excels in tank over other sniper HACs. But tanking is of little concern given you are gonna be shot last anyway unless your fleet is made of mostly tanky snipers.

If it could come to a decision if its supposed to brawl or snipe and get the bonuses adjusted, it would be an awesome ship.

Blaster platform with resist bonus and damage bonus would make it a great brawler with the additional benefit of a utility slot for a nos.

Sniper platform with range and tracking or damage bonus would be the other end of the deal, but then again cruiser snipers that arent HACs are not really in demand.

The Ferox suffers from the same identity crisis.


I pretty much fully agree with this.

Thorax is very win though.

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.21 22:26:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
The Moa is intended to be a T1 cruiser sniper. There are several problems with this idea...


4. Cruiser "sniping" ranges are much shorter than battleship sniping ranges, which means the intent of the ship is quite wasted.
5. The need for long range is low - sniper combat almost never occurs in PVE, and rarely happens in PVP.


Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.02.21 22:36:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
Originally by: Gypsio III
The Moa is intended to be a T1 cruiser sniper. There are several problems with this idea...


4. Cruiser "sniping" ranges are much shorter than battleship sniping ranges, which means the intent of the ship is quite wasted.
5. The need for long range is low - sniper combat almost never occurs in PVE, and rarely happens in PVP.




This is true, however, when you apply the optimal bonus to blasters they actually become less sucky.

So, although the intention of the bonus is for sniping it's application to blasters is far from wasted.

Pod Salesman
Posted - 2011.02.24 18:20:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Pod Salesman on 24/02/2011 19:24:43
Edited by: Pod Salesman on 24/02/2011 19:08:42
Edited by: Pod Salesman on 24/02/2011 18:23:58
The moa can be fitted fairly competitively; it's just hard to accomplish without fitting skills at max, and unfortunately the PG and cap are both gimped, so those need to be accounted for. Pvp is about going into a fight, knowing you actually have a good chance of winning. That being said, it has worked out in my favor that the moa is thought to be the bob-tailed nag of the cruisers.

Nearly the exact same thing can be said of the ferox, although it is sad that in every way the drake is better. Also, speaking strictly DPS vs EHP, both over time, there is only a narrow margin of capability to take out a hurricane (both fit optimally, using no t2 rigs). The difference between the two popping was a small enough amount of time to raise some eyebrows, if I recall. The cane is still a stronger boat though.

In closing, pvp is also about playing your cards right, not just a straight up DPS/EHP number comparison.


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