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blankseplocked Swap Stats on Blasters and Autocannons
 
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Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.18 22:48:00 - [1]
 

I've been toying with this though awhile now, and I really like it, floated it past more people, they don't hate it, so I am tossing it out again.

What do people think of swapping the stat on ACs and Blasters? If you put blaster equiv weapons on the Minmatar, you get fast ships with huge damage, get in and get out... if you put ACs on Gallente, you get thematic harmony, sit back in fall off and let your drones do the work.

Storyline wise, who makes a new ammo that goes LESS far and hits worse??

My personal vision of Minmatar are they are raiders, getting in and dropping some pain, blaster stats on their autocannons would accomplish that more than I sit out here and plink you...

I am not saying this change would be instantly balanced, and I am sure there are TONS of examples of a way it would not work as intended, but most important to this discussion in my opinion is does the idea have any merit? Details can be worked out later (no I don't work for CCP)

Best,
AG

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.18 22:55:00 - [2]
 

Getting in close means you have to commit to the fight.

This is not the minmatar way.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.18 23:47:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
Getting in close means you have to commit to the fight.

This is not the minmatar way.


Are you being sarcastic? Given their ships are much faster than most, they can get out of close fairly easily.

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.19 00:18:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Getting in close means you have to commit to the fight.

This is not the minmatar way.


Are you being sarcastic? Given their ships are much faster than most, they can get out of close fairly easily.


Their speed + fall off bonuses allow them to kite nicely. Getting into scram/web range means risking a lot more than fighting on the edge.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.02.19 00:29:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Getting in close means you have to commit to the fight.

This is not the minmatar way.


Are you being sarcastic? Given their ships are much faster than most, they can get out of close fairly easily.


Their speed + fall off bonuses allow them to kite nicely. Getting into scram/web range means risking a lot more than fighting on the edge.

Exactly. Now imagine if you had to get in close and had no way to get out? Thats current Gallente blaster.

While I don't like the idea of swapping stats, I prefer Gallente hulls be fixed instead, you illustrated the problem perfectly.

Lienzo
Minmatar
Amanuensis
Posted - 2011.02.19 00:40:00 - [6]
 

Change projectile ammo to modify falloff instead of optimals, or both for the sake of artillery.

This would automatically make Vagabonds less of a threat to long range tackling interceptors. We already have other platforms to deal with that threat.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.19 00:59:00 - [7]
 

I'm not advocating for nerfing Minmatar, I am suggesting that they get a bigger stick with that speed, not that they stay kite monsters. I would love the speed of a vaga and the dps of neutron blasters!

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.19 01:57:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Camios on 19/02/2011 01:56:50
The only clear thing about gallente blastership is that they should act like this:

  1. Approach your target fast by overloading the MWD, get a lot of damage but tank it. Problem: fast + tank requires shield tank, not armor tank.
  2. Get in web + scram range (overload!)
  3. Get in Void range and unleash hell. Out track the enemy or outtank him
  4. Repeat. Problem: you have already burned your MWD.


In my opinion, medium and small blasters should have a 50% boost to tracking. This is the only way to make those guns different, and blasterships should have more medium slots to fit a shield tank.


Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:41:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Camios
Edited by: Camios on 19/02/2011 01:56:50
The only clear thing about gallente blastership is that they should act like this:

  1. Approach your target fast by overloading the MWD, get a lot of damage but tank it. Problem: fast + tank requires shield tank, not armor tank.
  2. Get in web + scram range (overload!)
  3. Get in Void range and unleash hell. Out track the enemy or outtank him
  4. Repeat. Problem: you have already burned your MWD.


In my opinion, medium and small blasters should have a 50% boost to tracking. This is the only way to make those guns different, and blasterships should have more medium slots to fit a shield tank.




Given many Minmatar ships have that Shield tank, give them the blasters! Let them get in and get out!

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.02.19 05:19:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
Getting in close means you have to commit to the fight.

This is not the minmatar way.


Exactly, only the Hair gel, eyelinered, primped, Gallente have the stones to fight under web range.

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2011.02.19 05:44:00 - [11]
 

Sadly minmatar ships are very fragile compared to Gallente ones relying on speed to to mitigate damage, if you give them a weapon that must be used within the range of modules that will stop them dead they are worthless.

I do find it odd though that many of the blaster boats are some of the slowest ships in eve, meaning they are next to worthless. I think mostly a better balance must be established for Hybrids, essentially blasters seem fairly good on paper but the ships they are on have terrible bonuses and are to sluggish to use them. Pretty much fix gallente and caldari blaster boats and blaster will likely be fine, and if they are still a little short give them a mild buff to their optimal range.

Rails on the other hand need a minor damage buff and again better bonuses on caldari and gallente hulls that use them.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.19 12:48:00 - [12]
 

.

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.19 13:48:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Quote:


Their speed + fall off bonuses allow them to kite nicely. Getting into scram/web range means risking a lot more than fighting on the edge.

Exactly. Now imagine if you had to get in close and had no way to get out? Thats current Gallente blaster.


While I don't like the idea of swapping stats, I prefer Gallente hulls be fixed instead, you illustrated the problem perfectly.

I agree. This would only move the problem to minmatar. IMO all gallente blaster boats should get a huge boost to armor amount and reduction in mass. This would help them get into range faster (acceleration) and survive to actually do something (buffer) when in range. How much...well that's a matter for some development team that cares (i.e. doesn't exist)

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.02.19 13:56:00 - [14]
 

They are already very much alike. Blasters trade ~50% more optimal for half falloff and a higher damage mod.

The Blaster fix should focus on the ships themselves, making them better at closing the gap (preferably without making them all into kiters) and perhaps add some tracking/damage in exchange for even less fall-off.

As for Matari relying on speed .. that ship sailed long ago. Buffered (armour or shield) AC boats have roughly the same tanks as Gallente ditto, while having the much better speeds and ranges on top.

Hybrids main problem is being last in line of the. Blame CCP for taking so damn long to complete the weapon tweak round Very Happy

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.02.19 14:05:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Swynet on 19/02/2011 14:11:38
Originally by: Camios
The only clear thing about gallente blastership is that they should act like this:

  1. Approach your target fast by overloading the MWD, get a lot of damage but tank it. Problem: fast + tank requires shield tank, not armor tank.
  2. Get in web + scram range (overload!)
  3. Get in Void range and unleash hell. Out track the enemy or outtank him
  4. Repeat. Problem: you have already burned your MWD.


In my opinion, medium and small blasters should have a 50% boost to tracking. This is the only way to make those guns different, and blasterships should have more medium slots to fit a shield tank.





Minmatar Navy Megathron (^_^)

1xDC II
4x Gyrostabilyser II
3xTracking enhancer II (+op/falloff)

1xHeat dissipation II
1xInvulnerability Field II
1xHeavy capacitor Booster II Charge: Navy 800
1x 100MWD II

1x Heavy Nosteratu II
7x 800mm Repeating artillery II

2x Large Core Defense Extender II
1x Large Anti-Em Screen Reinforcer II

5x Hobgoblin II
5x Ogres/sentry (large choice)

For sure this setup works a lot better than Blaster/armor buffer, only 105K EHP but 1000m/s (no overheat) capable of hiting everything in his range from small to largest with 800DPS +(republic fleet EMP) with no implants at +/- 50km Laughing

This is wy Gallente are so lol ridiculous. Notice that even with passive tank and capless guns the Navy megathron caps out whenever he turns on all the stuff but 83% stable without MWD Laughing


Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.20 15:03:00 - [16]
 

.

Takeshi Yamato
Posted - 2011.02.20 15:25:00 - [17]
 

The combination of ultra-close range weapon + armor tanking is inherently broken in the current system.

Ultra-close range weapons need speed to become effective and armor plates/rigs slow a ship. At the frig level blasters are competitive and in some cases very good. Blast frigs don't fit plates or armor rigs and can close the gap very quickly (compared to the average optimal of frigs in general).

It's at the cruiser level that blasters start falling apart when going without a tank is suicide and closing the gap takes a lot longer relatively speaking.




Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2011.02.20 17:19:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Kalia Masaer
Sadly minmatar ships are very fragile compared to Gallente ones relying on speed to to mitigate damage, if you give them a weapon that must be used within the range of modules that will stop them dead they are worthless.
Plated Ruptures beg to differ.
It would be great to fit largest guns AND plates on a Thorax.

Kilostream
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.21 00:11:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Kilostream on 21/02/2011 00:13:59
Nah man,

Fixing Blasters would be cool, but nerfing minmatar ain't the way forward - your suggestion would be nerfing minmatar.

If you'd said match blaster stats with autocannons, I'd have been right behind ya.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.21 03:36:00 - [20]
 

It would not, since mini and gal pvp philosophies are very different.

You will realize it if CCP addresses the 400% range control nerf and her 2000% tracking nerf(even more considering AB fits). A blaster ship isn't useless, it is just hopelessly out of balance with realty when it comes to his point blank ability(where it is as handy caped as any nano setup, what is just pointless to begin with).

Sakaras Lane
Posted - 2011.02.21 03:43:00 - [21]
 

The problem here shouldn't be swapping stats on a weapon but reevaluating all turret weapons blaster which are supposed to be the best in your face weapon suffer due to cap/tracking/falloff while autocannons have comparable damage as blasters have equivilante damage 3x the tracking 7x the falloff and require no cap to use. That being said I made the switch from gallente to Minmatar years ago and do not encourage a swap nerf or buff since I enjoy the imbalance of autocannons.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.02.21 08:58:00 - [22]
 

Don't forget Pulse. Blasters won't be fixed while lasers can apply almost as much DPS in the close-range realm that is supposed to be blasters'. Pulse tracks far too well. Revert the 25% pulse tracking increase.

Korg Leaf
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2011.02.21 09:48:00 - [23]
 

Swapping the stats would turn gallente into a crappy version of amarr with capless guns and minmatar into an even crappier version of gallente

Relshar
Posted - 2011.03.27 11:04:00 - [24]
 

You dont need to swap stats or gun types. Just boost the tracking on the hybrids.

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.27 15:37:00 - [25]
 

So funny to see some people who say that blasters are fine in other threads, but when you mention swapping their auto cannons with blasters they view it as a nerf to Minmitar. Laughing


 

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