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tankarmor
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:14:00 - [1]
 

why ninja salvager is not flagged as red?

I guess there is someone don't want the idea of flag ninja salvager red since they are ninja salvager and regards it as a profession. I search on net and has the following info from ccp (?)


Per CCP Mitnal:
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Per GM Faolchu :
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

It's said like salvaging rubbish is like mining along belt. The common thing in both activity is that the resource is regarded as public accessible. So everyone should has the right to do the work. Is that true? No, ore is sitting there and TQ's downtime produces them. But wreck are produced by shooting something down. In pvp, the winner has the right over the property and in pve, missioner has the right.

Let's the difference between can flipper and ninja salvager. The only difference is you don't need skill and module to flip a can. But as the host of the can or the wreck you have totally different choice facing the other party.

And the saying the those wreck are just rubbish and salvager is just like a cleaner to make space more neat. Is that the case? No again. for lvl 3 and lower, wreck, bounty and mission rewards each takes one third of incoming; for lvl 4 bounty and wreck can take a half. Nowadays, every missioner (even all pve case) has a noctis. Why there is dedicated ship but say salvaging is nothing. Actually salvaging is the important part of incoming for every pve.

So, ninja salvaging is steal or not? You can think the question as whether the wreck is privately owned or publicly accessible. I think the answer is obvious. But whether stealing is allowed in game, we don't know.

Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:21:00 - [2]
 

1/10

It's OK cupcake, the professionals have the decency to steal the lootz at the first opportunity so you can shoot if you wish. Working as intended, nothing to see here, move along.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:23:00 - [3]
 

Tear Farmers helps CCP thin out its subscriber base and trim its profits. They serve a vital function, silly.Laughing

tankarmor
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:38:00 - [4]
 

Well, as carebear part, it's annoying as someone warps in and get stuff away while you pew pew some npc. Carebear treat EVE as single player game when they are doing mission, at least at that moment. Never to say disconnection between chronicle and in-game mission, pve part is not that good and even ruined by ninja salvager (good to have incursion though, as dungeon in other game).

You may say ppl can get pvp gear up to fight back. 20sec in station makes that impossible. And no one like kick npc in a pvp suit.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:55:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: tankarmor
why ninja salvager is not flagged as red?
Because the salvage isn't yours until you've earned it.
Quote:
So, ninja salvaging is steal or not?
Not. Obviously.

Ghengis Tia
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:01:00 - [6]
 

Salvage is used to make rigs. Rigs used to be one size fits all and required significant amounts of salvage to manufacture. Salvage, therefore, was very valuable and regarded as treasure to be found.

Ninja salvaging had its heyday during these times, and was most certainly worth the effort....

BUT

CCP solved the ninja salvaging whining problem and gave a real boost to less-than-BS-size-ships (that few people rigged as it was too expensive) by creating medium and small size rigs. The rigs could be manufactured with a much smaller quantity of salvage, and therefore the demand (and prices) for salvage plummeted.

Ninja salvaging in turn earned a lot less money for the time invested and remains an annoyance but not to the extent it once was.

If you have a problem with Ninjas, you are in a crowded system with a lot of mission runners who make it somewhat worthwhile to be a ninja. The solution remains the same: Go mission somewhere else.

tankarmor
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:40:00 - [7]
 

Just hope more mission runner come out and talk about the annoying ninja.

And there are around 120 lvl 4 agents with kill missions in highsec with quality > 0. I don't know if that's nowhere to go situation.

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2011.02.17 23:07:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Corporal Punishment08 on 17/02/2011 23:09:12
I propose going the OTHER way.

Look, if the salvage is considered anyone's fair game, then why isn't the loot inside the salvage??? This makes absolutely NO sense!

Also, ninja-salvaging WHs ftw ;) Just wait until after the PVEer is done shooting all NPCs and leaves to get his salvage boat hehe.

Seriously though, wtf? I still don't understand CCP's logic behind the wreck belonging to noone but stuff in the wreck belonging to someone. Make it all neutral, or all owned.

And I was a mission runner for quite a while, and have reverted back to make some isk in a tough financial situation I have found myself facing. And I still don't care about ninja salvagers. I think it's more cost-efficient to run the missions and not salvage as opposed to running the mission and salvaging afterwards, depending on the mission of course. Also, alot of the ninja salvagers nowadays seem to be newbs, as anyone else is not interested in the worthless salvage anymore since sized rigs came in to the picture

Lupus Lycaon
Posted - 2011.02.17 23:19:00 - [9]
 

Threads like this make me wanna bring out my cormy Twisted Evil

Crabs Collector
Posted - 2011.02.17 23:29:00 - [10]
 

Dude this is pointless.

Because if a ninja salvager is flagged red, you still better not attack him because its likely that he'll get in with another pvp ship and beat the crap out of your fancy pve fit.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.18 01:29:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Corporal Punishment08
Seriously though, wtf? I still don't understand CCP's logic behind the wreck belonging to noone but stuff in the wreck belonging to someone. Make it all neutral, or all owned.
Because salvaging wasn't there in the beginning, whereas loot was designed to be part of the rewards your reap when you do missions. When salvaging was added, it wasn't intended as yet another mission reward, but as a separate activity you do at the same time.

The loot is owned because it's part of the planned rewards; salvage is not owned because it's not part of the planned rewards. You earn the former by doing the mission; you earn the latter by scooting over and activating your salvager.

Missy Sasha
Posted - 2011.02.18 01:32:00 - [12]
 

I don't mind if people salvage my wrecks, just leave my mission objective alone.

Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.02.18 03:11:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: tankarmor
Just hope more mission runner come out and talk about the annoying ninja.


As the official TEARS diplo in this thread, we do too. Please, by all means, carry on.

WowThisGameIsAwesome
Posted - 2011.02.18 07:00:00 - [14]
 

Actually I'm glad when ninja comes to my mission because I'm bored as hell doing those rutionous tasks and I usually paint all wrecks blue for ninja , after that I try to chat with him for a while out of boredom and if he's a fun guy I'll invite him to fleet to salvage my next mission so he don't need to bother with scanning .

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.02.18 07:08:00 - [15]
 

I don't really care if they want to salvage it. Usually I'll just blue the entire grid. If he wants it that badly he can have it.

There are times I'm tempted to blow the little sucker into dust but solo is dead and it is more than likely that his friends will warp in the moment I shoot at him.

Ah well, such is Eve.

Belthazor4011
Posted - 2011.02.18 11:05:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: tankarmor
Per GM Faolchu :
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit.


As per the dictionary:

in·tend·ed
–adjective
1.
purposed; designed; intentional

Why isn't this the end of the thread?

tankarmor
Posted - 2011.02.18 20:05:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: tankarmor
why ninja salvager is not flagged as red?
Because the salvage isn't yours until you've earned it.
Quote:
So, ninja salvaging is steal or not?
Not. Obviously.


I know you are one of them:)

Originally by: Lupus Lycaon
Threads like this make me wanna bring out my cormy Twisted Evil


From time to time, someone says that in local to those ninja.

Originally by: Crabs Collector
Dude this is pointless.

Because if a ninja salvager is flagged red, you still better not attack him because its likely that he'll get in with another pvp ship and beat the crap out of your fancy pve fit.


Defining property right is one thing, how to defense your property is another:)

Originally by: Tippia
Because salvaging wasn't there in the beginning, whereas loot was designed to be part of the rewards your reap when you do missions. When salvaging was added, it wasn't intended as yet another mission reward, but as a separate activity you do at the same time.


You kill npc and loot/salvage. It can be part of.

All in all, salvaging is a piece of cake. Everyone wants it, just who bring the cake doesn't a solid grasp over it.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.18 20:18:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: tankarmor
I know you are one of them:)
Then, as a fellow mission-runner, you should understand that it's not just something ninjas say.
Quote:
You kill npc and loot/salvage. It can be part of.
No it can't, for the simple reason that it isn't. Salvaging is a separate profession, something you (or someone else in the vicinity) do on the side. If you want to make it a part of the mission rewards — something you earn the rights to as part of running the missions — then something else has to go.

So what would you want to lose in exchange for the salvage rights? The LP? The loot? The bounties? The ISK reward and time bonuses?

A'Brantox Foson
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.18 20:30:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: A''Brantox Foson on 18/02/2011 20:30:53
edit:.. i failed

1 gets u flagged
1 doesn't

they are WAY different


Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.02.18 20:32:00 - [20]
 

"Ninja"... that's funny. Laughing

Oh, and 1/10. You got me to reply.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.18 20:43:00 - [21]
 

afaik the ninjas still can't tractor your wrecks, you can, so if you REALLY want your salvage tractor and salvage while doing the mission.

It isn't fun for you that they can do it, but it really isn't fun for them unless you get upset.

Best
AG

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.18 21:41:00 - [22]
 

Ninjas suffer from horrible sodium deficiencies due to the nature of their lifestyle. Tears are salty. People cry when you "steal" their wrecks.

It's a vicious cycle...

Hephaesteus
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.02.18 23:56:00 - [23]
 

Ninja salvaging is a great part of the game. It teaches you how to go about scanning, and aggro mechanics.

What more could you ask for these are valuable skills in Eve.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2011.02.19 00:51:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: tankarmor
Whine...

Crying over the rules of a game is pretty pathetic, don't you think?

I mean, you're sort of like a footballer (European sort) who cries to the judge that it's unfair that your team is not allowed to all use their hands because you feel that'd be better suited to your style and would be beneficial to you...

In essence, a post like yours just proves that you're no good at this game, but can't admit that to yourself...

Droidster
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:07:00 - [25]
 

Translation: Whaaaaaaaaaa! Whaaaaaaaaa! Whaaaaaaa! Boooo Hooo! Whaaaaaaaaa......

tankarmor
Posted - 2011.02.19 11:43:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: tankarmor
Whine...

Crying over the rules of a game is pretty pathetic, don't you think?

I mean, you're sort of like a footballer (European sort) who cries to the judge that it's unfair that your team is not allowed to all use their hands because you feel that'd be better suited to your style and would be beneficial to you...

In essence, a post like yours just proves that you're no good at this game, but can't admit that to yourself...


Good thing about this community is that everyone like to complain everything but still strive a way out. It's always nice to have different voice.

Joe Forum
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.19 12:06:00 - [27]
 

Ninja miners, scanning down your mission space and ninja mining your rocks should get flagged too.

Zoom Sanna
Posted - 2011.02.19 17:04:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: tankarmor
why ninja salvager is not flagged as red?

[snip]
So, ninja salvaging is steal or not? You can think the question as whether the wreck is privately owned or publicly accessible. I think the answer is obvious. But whether stealing is allowed in game, we don't know.



Most ninja salvagers do NOT care about the salvage nor about the loot in the wrecks; their main objective is to get the mission runner to aggress them. Then they go get their pvp ship and blow up the mission runners pvp ship.

Its a way to try to get pvp in high sec with little risk of actually being defeated (since mission runner ships are typically crap against pvp fitted ships. One might call these people 'pvpbears'.

There are exceptions; I've known ninjas who lose pvp battlecruisers against mission runner destroyers.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.19 17:09:00 - [29]
 

-90001/10
the GM states it what three times and yer asking if its stealing?
reading comprehension ftw

NovaCat13
Gallente
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2011.02.19 18:05:00 - [30]
 

Because you don't own the wreck itself, only the components, learn salvage law? I say they should change it so you turn red to Angels etc from taking from their wrecks :P


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