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blankseplocked Any other Shield tanked BC for PvE than Drake?
 
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Danna Hande
Posted - 2011.02.17 16:54:00 - [1]
 

Hello, is there any alternative to Drake? An another shield tanked BC for L3? Not just possible, but as well effective?

helmeo
Caldari
Star Mandate
Posted - 2011.02.17 16:57:00 - [2]
 

passive shield hurricane might work.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.17 17:00:00 - [3]
 

Myrmidon.

captain skinback
Posted - 2011.02.17 17:00:00 - [4]
 

passive shield myrm and hurricane work pretty well
im not sure if they do the same dps though and i cba to eft warrior it and find out

price checkinho
Posted - 2011.02.17 17:01:00 - [5]
 

For level 3's the drake probably isn't even the fastest. Any BC tier 1 or 2 will do 3's fine with decent skills.

Your racial BC will be the best choice for your racial missions. I.E. A harby will kill Sansha's the fastest etc etc...

Unit757
North Point
Posted - 2011.02.17 17:02:00 - [6]
 

I've got a ferox I use in some level 3's. Its a little low on the DPS side, but my skills with hybrids suck.

[Ferox, PVE]
Damage Control II
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

200mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
Small Nosferatu II

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Hornet II x5

Most certainly not the best fit, but it's fairly cheap and does get the job done, although not as fast as other ships. Just swap out the ballistic deflection for a hardener specific to the enemy your fighting. Also needs advanced weapon upgrades lvl 3 to fit tech II 200mm.

Fibby Sunhawk
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2011.02.17 17:04:00 - [7]
 

I think the cycklone can be pretty good if you got all the skills to fly it properly. Although the drake propably will do lvl 3 missions easier then most other BCs really, especialy if you want to shield tank.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.17 17:27:00 - [8]
 

A full passive drake (all spr, no bcs) has peak passive regen of 235 hp/s, a full passive myrm has peak regen of 350 hp/s. You will not be using a drake fully tanked without bcs, but you can use a myrm fully tanked, since it's a droneboat.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2011.02.17 17:30:00 - [9]
 

Passive shield Cane works just fine unless you do blood raiders or Sansha

1600 RT
Posted - 2011.02.17 17:54:00 - [10]
 

a passive shield myrm can take an absurd amount of damage, too bad you cant use it on WH or it would be a nice alternative to drakes there

freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2011.02.17 18:10:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Goose99
A full passive drake (all spr, no bcs) has peak passive regen of 235 hp/s, a full passive myrm has peak regen of 350 hp/s. You will not be using a drake fully tanked without bcs, but you can use a myrm fully tanked, since it's a droneboat.


Even after this. Some silly posts still come up with how OP the drake is. It's so bad that you wonder if they play the game at all.Neutral

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2011.02.17 18:27:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Kneebone on 17/02/2011 18:37:27
Edited by: Kneebone on 17/02/2011 18:37:01
For L3's you really just need about a 300dps tank at the high end, no need to go much over that. The more DPS you pump out the less tank you need. The passive Myrm I used is fit basically like this:

6x 650mm Arty's (Remember Myrm is NOT a hybrid boat)

1x 10mn AB
1x Invul
1x Specific Hardner
2x LSEII's

2x SPRII's
1x TEII
3x Gyro II's

3x Purger Rigs

Drones to taste.

It easily cracks 400dps, 450+ if you use Faction/T2 Ammos. You have some options for DPS with the drones and ammo. You get an AB. You can up the tank as needed by making changes to your low slots.

Originally by: Goose99
A full passive drake (all spr, no bcs) has peak passive regen of 235 hp/s, a full passive myrm has peak regen of 350 hp/s. You will not be using a drake fully tanked without bcs, but you can use a myrm fully tanked, since it's a droneboat.


Also ignore this guy. He comletely ignores the Drake's Resist bonus and demonstrates a lack of practical in game knowledge/expirence.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.17 18:41:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Kneebone
Originally by: Goose99
A full passive drake (all spr, no bcs) has peak passive regen of 235 hp/s, a full passive myrm has peak regen of 350 hp/s. You will not be using a drake fully tanked without bcs, but you can use a myrm fully tanked, since it's a droneboat.
Also ignore this guy. He comletely ignores the Drake's Resist bonus and demonstrates a lack of practical in game knowledge/expirence.
…except that the higher regen of the Myrm commonly outweighs the higher resists on the Drake.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.02.17 19:10:00 - [14]
 

Yeah the Myrm can put up a truly beastly passive shield tank (somewhat ironic since it has an active armor tanking bonus)

[Myrmidon, sheild myrm arty]
Power Diagnostic System II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Damage Control II

Heat Dissipation Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Garde II x3
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Tanks 654 Vs serps 740 v Gurista's 425dps when Garde's and can carry a set of lights and mediums for smaller stuff that gets in close. Tanks 701 v Angels with explosive hardeners and is only really weak V Sansha/EM rats at 511 with one proton II and 1 Heat dis II.

DPS in the 400 range depending on what drones you are using.


Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:05:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Kneebone on 17/02/2011 22:14:44
Edited by: Kneebone on 17/02/2011 22:12:34
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Kneebone
Originally by: Goose99
A full passive drake (all spr, no bcs) has peak passive regen of 235 hp/s, a full passive myrm has peak regen of 350 hp/s. You will not be using a drake fully tanked without bcs, but you can use a myrm fully tanked, since it's a droneboat.
Also ignore this guy. He comletely ignores the Drake's Resist bonus and demonstrates a lack of practical in game knowledge/expirence.
…except that the higher regen of the Myrm commonly outweighs the higher resists on the Drake.


*facepalm*

Ok you win. If you take %100 EM damage only then yes the Myrm is "better" because it has a higher peak regen. Of course the Drake will have over 12k more EHP then a Myrm.

Lets assume that each carries an EM Specific passive Hardner (t2) and a single invul (t2). The Myrm still wins the passive regen amount, however the Myrm is only resisting 61% of the damage, the Drake is resisting %71. Per EFT WARRIOR! That means the Myrm's peak EM defense is 905dps. The Drake's peak EM defense is 945!! OMG!! HOW CAN THAT BE! O, thats right. It has a higher resist! Not to mention 28,000 more EHP!

Ok, now lets do something CRAZY! Lets do Guristas with a passive Kinetic and an active Invul. They Myrm's rated defense is 1265, the Drake is 1320. Again the Drake wins but it also has an extra 40k EHP! OMGS!

So yes you are right. The Myrm's regen wins if it is fit with nothing but SPR's, LSEII's, and Purger rigs (t1 in this case) and is taking %100 EM damage only! In all other instances the Drake is clear winner.

Of course those are unrealistic fits, but people tend to not make very realistic arguments. I've yet to come across an L3 mission that requires that much tank. A Drake can crack 450DPS with a 300+ tank just like the Myrm.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:22:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 17/02/2011 22:28:40
Originally by: Kneebone
Ok you win. If you take %100 EM damage only then yes the Myrm is "better" because it has a higher peak regen.
Good job missing the point and going for the extremist argument. Rolling Eyes

The Myrm is better in any scenario where the Drake's resist bonus does not equate to a ~33% reduction in incoming DPS. This is not an uncommon scenario. That is all anyone is saying.
Quote:
In all other instances the Drake is clear winner.
Absolute statements are absolutely incorrect. So no, that is not even remotely true.

And anyway, Drakes are best if active-tanked, whereas the PST Myrm is actually pretty good, so the comparison is off regardless.

Gimpb
The Scope
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:57:00 - [17]
 

Sure, there are lots of effective alternatives. The drake is a very strait-forward ship with lots of tank and moderate damage. The other alternatives, for the most part, don't tank the damage as easily but can kill/move faster. Pretty much any higher-end cruiser (HAC/faction/pirate) or tier 2 BC will handle them just fine. The cruisers will generally move and kill faster but will cost more and some require more skills. The other BCs generally can kill faster but honestly, they probably don't perform as well as the drake for low skill points.

Devil tiger
Posted - 2011.02.18 11:39:00 - [18]
 

Assault ship is all you need to speed run missions up to lvl 3.
some lvl 4 are doable but a T3 can do them all with ease.

Then again you were looking for BC. Imo AC Hurricane works very well in any form of tank.

Sonya Kranz
Posted - 2011.02.18 11:45:00 - [19]
 

The myrmidon and hurricane both work well with a shield tank, and can do lvl 4s as well if really pushed, just like a drake.

However especially the myrmidon has one downside, and its called dominix, it does exactly the same thing, only better.

A'Brantox Foson
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.18 11:54:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: A''Brantox Foson on 18/02/2011 11:57:28
use a drake, with a cane alt as backup dps... as a glorified drone (ull need an okay computer, dual core+/ati 4770+, 2gb+ ram)

makes sense
best way ive found to make isk whilst still under 10mil sp

edit: forgot to mention, u also get a new char to play with, more than double the isk (i pay for at least one of my subsciptions with the spare isk i have lying around now) also double the options and u get a char from another race Cool


The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.18 14:09:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: The Djego on 18/02/2011 14:23:04
[Cyclone, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Medium Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Hobgoblin II x2
Hammerhead II x3

Use speed and range to migrate incoming DPS. For L4 you need a to fit a bit more tank, but still does fine most of the time if you don't get webbed(WC Sansha side is tricky but doable). Requires obviously a extreme amount of SP and a good understanding how to speed/range tank to really become effective.

Awesome Possum
Original Sin.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2011.02.18 15:35:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Danna Hande
Hello, is there any alternative to Drake? An another shield tanked BC for L3? Not just possible, but as well effective?


The best passive shield ship for a l3 is a navy caracal.

I started off with this fit:

[Caracal Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Mission Specific Field II
Mission Specific Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

'Malkuth' Assault Missile Launcher I, Bloodclaw Light Missile
'Malkuth' Assault Missile Launcher I, Bloodclaw Light Missile
'Malkuth' Assault Missile Launcher I, Bloodclaw Light Missile
'Malkuth' Assault Missile Launcher I, Bloodclaw Light Missile
'Malkuth' Assault Missile Launcher I, Bloodclaw Light Missile
'Malkuth' Assault Missile Launcher I, Bloodclaw Light Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I

[Drones]
Hobgoblin II x 3 or Warrior II x 3

And by the time I was done, had spent a little bling and was using this one:

[Caracal Navy Issue, New Setup 2]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II or Damage Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x3


Most L3s are loads of frigs and destroyers, with some cruisers thrown in. Some have a few BC rats and only a couple have any BS rats.

The AMLs on a navy'cal make very very short work of those ships (3 groups of 2, one group per frig rat).

Between the speed with AB permarun, and its quick work of frigs, I'll always recommend this over any BC for Lvl 3 blitzing.

9toes
Posted - 2011.02.18 16:01:00 - [23]
 

Mrymidon can be, but it is better fitted for armor tanking. I've done it both ways. Drake is the obvious best.

Annoitte
Minmatar
Industrial Salvage and Excavations
Posted - 2011.02.19 06:16:00 - [24]
 

If you have decent Projectile skills, try throwing some Howies on a Ferox. I'm a firm believer that not even ship bonuses can help Hybrid turrets, and the Ferox has so far proven my point in PvE.

Lows
TE II
2 x Gyro II
DCU II

Mids
MSB II
2 x Invuln II
2 x Cap Charger II


Highs
Heavy Missile I (I use Malkuth)
6 x 650mm Scout

DPS is kinda low, but volley fire instapops frigates at range, and the tank is decent enough, with the Cap lasting about 20 minutes.

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.02.19 19:09:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Fibby Sunhawk
I think the cycklone can be pretty good if you got all the skills to fly it properly.

Another +1 for the cyclone, tried that out for a bit and it impressed me. It has more cap then I anticipated (can't stand cap boosters, either to small of a return vs size or way to big for it size, can never seem to keep enough 400/800 in the cargo hold), so didn't really need more +cap mods/rigs which allowed me to spice it up a bit more and run with a T2 med shield rep (was never impressed with T2 shield reps before, faction/deadspace seemed more effienct for shields for a bit more isk while T2 armor reps always seemed more cost effective vs faction when I flew armor ships). I love 5x 720, they hit hard and even changed it out to 425 autos with a microwarp drive. That was fun. Hurricane didn't impress me as much, might do better as an auto boat as artillery are not very effective vs angel ships (they are just damn fast!) and armor reps do not work so well with MWD on it ugh. Still playing around with the hurricane and cyclone, but right now I like the cyclone more then the hurricane

Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.19 19:35:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 17/02/2011 22:28:40
Originally by: Kneebone
Ok you win. If you take %100 EM damage only then yes the Myrm is "better" because it has a higher peak regen.
Good job missing the point and going for the extremist argument. Rolling Eyes

The Myrm is better in any scenario where the Drake's resist bonus does not equate to a ~33% reduction in incoming DPS. This is not an uncommon scenario. That is all anyone is saying.
Quote:
In all other instances the Drake is clear winner.
Absolute statements are absolutely incorrect. So no, that is not even remotely true.

And anyway, Drakes are best if active-tanked, whereas the PST Myrm is actually pretty good, so the comparison is off regardless.


If you're tanking EM you'd be using specific hardners, in which case drake's 25% resist bonus adds up to 3-5% extra over unbonused Myrm, at lvl5 BC(which most noobs who use drakes don't have). The higher passive regen rate on Myrm behave in the opposite way, the higher it gets, the more it amplifies itself. Drakes aren't popular because of the passive tank, it's popular because of missiles and buffer. Missiles take short time to train and are effective for low missions. Missile damage projection and high buffer for pvp, where passive regen isn't a factor anyway.

Brego Tralowski
Galactic Extensive Technologies
SUB ROSA ALLIANCE
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:33:00 - [27]
 

Passive myrm is very effective


 

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