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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.02.16 23:23:00 - [1]
 

What is it?

On Jan 2nd 2011 I have started something new for EvE: a long term RL Emergency Charity Relief initiative.
Since Feb 02, it's open to the public and has received a fair share of donations.


A charity? In my EvE?

Yes, a sandbox game is something funny like that and someone had to try something different.
I started it as "solo" operation but then I found out the idea could be scaled up for greater effect.


How do I know this is "legit"?

The main way to acquire "one shot" donations is to directly send money to Chribba and / or Grendell and / or the Charity Corporation (Vahrokh’s Emergencies Relief Trust).
Since I don't expect people outside of Market Discussion to know me, feel free to exclusively trust Chribba and / or Grendell.
Do not get swayed by any wanna be "third party", Chribba, Grendell and Vahrokh’s Emergencies Relief Trust are the ONLY authorized agents.


How does it work?

We gather ISK and PLEXes and just hold them as specified in the launch thread.
When a RL emergency happens, CCP will start an emergency relief campaign.
At this point each of us will just turn everything into PLEXes and send to CCP so that they may help the unfortunate.
By having three Keepers, the risks of losing all the money for any cause are reduced.


How to donate?

In two ways, you may skip the one that does not apply to you:

1) One time donations: prepare your donation >= 1M ISK or a PLEX (the only two things we'll accept) and send / contract them to one of:

Chribba
Grendell
Vahrokh’s Emergencies Relief Trust (this is the charity corporation, ticker [VAERT]).

with the following description:

MRVAHFTFF016 P01=0 Charity donation

or

MRVAHFTFF016 P01=1 Charity donation

The first is for anonymous donation, the second will have your name shown on the Donors list.
Since the process will be automatically processed, it is of utmost importance that you use the above descriptions else the donation will be lost.

2) You might prefer to setup your own managed and kept "fund" and just join the initiative. Best anti-scam possible! In that case please contact me via EvE mail for full details. You will still show in the Donors score!

For any question please post in the Charity's official thread.


Any more information?

The official thread gives an huge amount of detais, it even got a FAQ and the statements by Chribba and Grendell.

The initiative has its own web pages at: Linky. They are roleplay friendly as well.


Fly safe and be generous!
Vaerah Vahrokha

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.02.17 01:06:00 - [2]
 

Cool idea.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.02.17 07:31:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Joe Skellington
Cool idea.


I can't say whether it's cool or not, but it's going to help someone.
Quite anticlimatic in EvE, but who cares.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.02.17 08:29:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Since the process will be automatically processed, it is of utmost importance that you use the above descriptions else the donation will be lost.


If it that's important, perhaps it would be nice to have a simpler code instead of the over-engineered one? I'm sure there would be plenty of unique 3 or 4 letter codes which aren't used in your wallets yet. What's wrong with "CH01" for instance?

Alotta Baggage
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.02.17 08:33:00 - [5]
 

Are you questioning God's judgement on a certain region? Shocked

Alpheias
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.02.17 08:44:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Alotta Baggage
Are you questioning God's judgement on a certain region? Shocked


It is one of those goody-goody people again who want other people well. Ugh. I have nothing but contempt for the lot.

Zuper Zpy
Posted - 2011.02.17 08:49:00 - [7]
 

I would really like to donate my PLEX/ISK to charity but TBH I want to see some CCP names endorsing this as scam free and a list of charities that are being supported.
Anything with UN in you can count me out.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.17 08:51:00 - [8]
 

How is this different compared to just donating directly to CCP when something happens if you want to donate for that? (Besides the epeen enlargement because you appear in a list).

Grog Barrel
Posted - 2011.02.17 09:12:00 - [9]
 

In the meanwhile, when there is no emergency and the isk/plex stacks up, is there going to be any kind of in-game profit based activity by using the money you will have due donations (investment banking = active) or are this donations by no means going to be touched until an emergency charity event occurs (safe-deposit box = passive)?


cheers

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.17 09:21:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Zuper Zpy
I would really like to donate my PLEX/ISK to charity but TBH I want to see some CCP names endorsing this as scam free and a list of charities that are being supported.
Anything with UN in you can count me out.

CCP has stated before during charity drives that using those for the purpose of scamming would lead to a insta-ban.

The OP won't be that stupid I hope. ^_^

Neamus
Posted - 2011.02.17 09:27:00 - [11]
 

Cool idea and I wish I could contribute, but the problem is that over the years playing eve I've learnt that you cant trust anyone.

I don't trust you or this scheme, or anyone else in eve for that matter. Chribba has a great reputation, but I don't know or trust him either I'm afraid. I'll continue donating to reputable RL charities and be content with that.

But on the off-chance that this is genuine, and that someone doesn't steal all the funds, then I wish you success in your efforts.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2011.02.17 09:36:00 - [12]
 

Why would I give my ingame money to some unknown who then arbitrarily gets to decide where to send it to? IRL I give to some charities and not to others, mostly based on how "real" the problem is but more importantly, how much of the money sent is "lost" to "additional costs" and not actually fully used to help where it's needed.

If I feel there's something that could use my monetary help, and it seems it would be well spent, then I'll grab my chequebook. Why would I want to some game/unknown to get in between of that?

Rafael Freeman
Posted - 2011.02.17 09:43:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Rafael Freeman on 17/02/2011 09:43:18
TL;DR

Julian Koll
The Kollektive
Posted - 2011.02.17 09:47:00 - [14]
 

Well, as someone who has done exactly this in the past i might put some points straight:

1) Why? Cause some people might not be able to donate a complete Plex. I had people donating from 10m to 1b during the haiti and pakistan drives.

2) List? Yep, for some people it is an incentive to appear on a donators list. In the end we are all human and like all kinds of absolution, including public ones.

3) Isk? Were it might be more effective in some cases to donate RL money, some people might be cash poor and isk rich, or do for whatever other reason prefer to donate isk. You can donate isk. If you prefer to donate $$$ to a charity of your choice, do so.

4) Security? Most won't know the OP, which does not mean she is an unknown. People have trusted her with 10s of billions of isk so far, and as someone stated, ccp will bring the ban-hammer should one run with isk donated for the plex-for-xxx drives. However you can still just send the isk to Chribba or Grendell, i'm sure they wont run with your 35m isk.

5) Complexity? yep, told her that already. its a thing of VV to make everything perfect, which sometimes leads to over-engineering or wall-o-text-ism. I'm sure no donations will be lost in the long haul, but also hope for a simpler procedure to emerge.

cheers, JK

Zars Boy
Posted - 2011.02.17 11:19:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Zuper Zpy
I would really like to donate my PLEX/ISK to charity but TBH I want to see some CCP names endorsing this as scam free and a list of charities that are being supported.
Anything with UN in you can count me out.

CCP has stated before during charity drives that using those for the purpose of scamming would lead to a insta-ban.

The OP won't be that stupid I hope. ^_^

OK so lets have the endorsements and the list asked for please. And CCP does endorse scams, just check out the multiple posts regarding Margin Trading and you will find that CCP endorses that sort of scamming within the game mechanics. Scamming is an integral part of Eve. It could actually be renamed as "Revenge of the Nerds".

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.02.17 12:58:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 17/02/2011 13:00:28
Quote:

If it that's important, perhaps it would be nice to have a simpler code instead of the over-engineered one?



A message sent in that format contains:

- Donor name (automatic, since he's the sender)
- Account name out of 4 available
- The agreement (1) or not (0) associated to donor's property (the P01=)

It's indeed something nasty to read, but this is what the copy and paste feature were invented.

If you wish, I'll make a video of how to copy the code and paste it in a donation description.


Quote:

How is this different compared to just donating directly to CCP when something happens if you want to donate for that?



- Those who want e-peen can have it.
- Those who can today, maybe could not tomorrow, they could quit playing, stay away from the game...
- Last but not least at all, consider it a core of a constructive movement of opinion (sorry for the spelling, I am not English). This is indeed news in the EvE harsh universe, but I just had to see whether the sandbox is truly open or is heavily weighted towards a negative and opportunistic attitude.

Quote:

In the meanwhile, when there is no emergency and the isk/plex stacks up, is there going to be any kind of in-game profit based activity by using the money you will have due donations (investment banking = active) or are this donations by no means going to be touched until an emergency charity event occurs (safe-deposit box = passive)?



Both Chribba and Grendell (and myself) have been specifically instructed to passively hold it. Any profit would involve risk and certainly I don't want to risk money to save / help real people!

The exact rules are written in the Articles of Incorporation Link to PDF. You may also directly refer to the Charity Fund, whose prospectus is available at Link.


Quote:

Cool idea and I wish I could contribute, but the problem is that over the years playing eve I've learnt that you cant trust anyone.

I don't trust you or this scheme, or anyone else in eve for that matter. Chribba has a great reputation, but I don't know or trust him either I'm afraid. I'll continue donating to reputable RL charities and be content with that



We also planned for people with more than justified concerns (it's EvE after all!).
You may start your own "sister fund". You keep ALL the money. You manage it, like you say. The difference is that if you are serious and and you really put it aside, (even 1M a month is OK) you could join the initiative with your / your corp name.
The more sister funds join, the more we get visible, the more people will feel pushed at imitating you. There are some who already joined, you could be the next.

In no case, at any point, anyone will EVER ask you an ISK off this self fund you made. You are as safe as it gets.


Quote:

Why would I give my ingame money to some unknown who then arbitrarily gets to decide where to send it to?



It's not arbitrary, there's exactly *one* destination for this and it's CCP. It's up to them what to choose and do next.


Quote:

OK so lets have the endorsements and the list asked for please



Could you please explain what do you want? I am not sure CCP will bother to "tag" this thread or whatever.
What is the list asked? If it's something in possession of CCP I have no idea how to force them to post it.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.02.17 13:06:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 17/02/2011 13:10:18
Quote:

And CCP does endorse scams



CCP endorses scams as long as they are not related to PLEX for RL donations or character sales. I suppose this initiative falls in the first category.
I indeed contacted a GM and he told me that CCP will continue in their campaigns (that's all what he replied).
I also sent a prospectus to the ISDs.
I don't know what else to do.

Edit:

We also post a monthly and yearly balance sheet (of course it's the second month of operation so there's just one ATM). It does not pretend to be GAAP compliant or anything, but it's quite detailed about what does what.

Wellfan
Snake Eyes Inc
Posted - 2011.02.17 13:16:00 - [18]
 

This thread is in dire need of Glue...

Fantastic initiative. Will speak to my corpies about it as I think this is a worthwhile cause

starbreaker
Posted - 2011.02.17 13:23:00 - [19]
 

Yes.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:20:00 - [20]
 

Quote:

This thread is in dire need of Glue...

Fantastic initiative. Will speak to my corpies about it as I think this is a worthwhile cause



If you need of any assistance or clarification please don't be afraid to EvE mail.

Just make sure that if someone decides for a recurring donation or a sister fund, they should be serious and ready to be involved for many months.

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:34:00 - [21]
 

Why do you hinder natural selection?

Melkath Bandrom
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:55:00 - [22]
 

I have a question. This may sound like an accusatory commentary but it is not meant as such.

How exactly does this translate from ISK to RL cash? I am fuzzy on the whole idea. I know you can convert cash to ISK by purchasing PLEX's.

How does the opposite happen?

How does CCP take any donated PLEX and turn it into a cash donation to any disaster?

What happens to the PLEX? Is it destroyed? Is it resold to get more cash from resale?

How does this work from gamers donating isk instead of PLEX's?

If a player purchases a PLEX to donate to the cause with ingame ISK, how can that possibly translate into RL cash? Isn't that tantamount to a money laundering scheme?

Once again, I ask these out of genuine curiosity, not trying to disguise a nasty negative agenda or anything as I'm sure I'll be accused of. (this is EVE after all - Negativity rules here...lol)

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:25:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

If it that's important, perhaps it would be nice to have a simpler code instead of the over-engineered one?



A message sent in that format contains:

- Donor name (automatic, since he's the sender)
- Account name out of 4 available
- The agreement (1) or not (0) associated to donor's property (the P01=)

It's indeed something nasty to read, but this is what the copy and paste feature were invented.


I understand how the code 'works', that's why I called it over-engineered. You're using 18 characters to encode something which could be encoded by as little as 1 character (plus 1 as a check digit if you like). A 4-character code would make it possible while keeping it simple: one char to identify that the donation is for this scheme [V], one char to identify the account name (not sure what you mean with that, but if you want it, it'll fit in there) [F], one char for the donor [0 or 1], one check digit [calculate, or invent]; that gives VF0X and VF1Y. Same functionality, no nasty long code.

Triple Entendre
Atrocity.
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:27:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Melkath Bandrom
I have a question. This may sound like an accusatory commentary but it is not meant as such.

How exactly does this translate from ISK to RL cash? I am fuzzy on the whole idea. I know you can convert cash to ISK by purchasing PLEX's.

How does the opposite happen?

How does CCP take any donated PLEX and turn it into a cash donation to any disaster?

What happens to the PLEX? Is it destroyed? Is it resold to get more cash from resale?

How does this work from gamers donating isk instead of PLEX's?

If a player purchases a PLEX to donate to the cause with ingame ISK, how can that possibly translate into RL cash? Isn't that tantamount to a money laundering scheme?

Once again, I ask these out of genuine curiosity, not trying to disguise a nasty negative agenda or anything as I'm sure I'll be accused of. (this is EVE after all - Negativity rules here...lol)


To my knowledge, it works like this. The ISK is used to buy PLEXs. They are then contracted to a CCP character when there's one of these campaigns. CCP already own the money from the PLEX as someone has to have bought it before. Essentially, they're just removing the PLEX from the server, and donating some of what would otherwise have been their own profits to the cause.

This makes the most sense.

FAKEEDIT: This is also my yearly useful post quota.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:39:00 - [25]
 

Quote:

Why do you hinder natural selection?



Natural selection has been supplanted by humanity bad decisions, pollution => global warming up and what else.


Quote:

I have a question. This may sound like an accusatory commentary but it is not meant as such.

How exactly does this translate from ISK to RL cash? I am fuzzy on the whole idea. I know you can convert cash to ISK by purchasing PLEX's.

How does the opposite happen?

How does CCP take any donated PLEX and turn it into a cash donation to any disaster?



When an emergency happens, CCP may decide to start a "PLEX for <enter name here> campaign". Players who want to help can contract to a special CCP character 1 or more PLEXes. CCP basically reverses the usual process: usually it's RL money to PLEX but in these campaigns they transform PLEXes back into RL money. This RL money is then forwarded by CCP themselves to a RL charity of CCP's choosing (afaik).

The whole initiative and process are much better explained here and here.




mogwai
Gallente
Sparks of Insanity
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:39:00 - [26]
 

seems like a win / win situation for CCP too.

1. plex is bought for RL cash, which then sits accumulating interest in CCP's bank account.
2. once the cash is released to charity, isnt it tax deductable?

pretty damn good idea tho imo Smile

CCP Adida


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:41:00 - [27]
 

Moved from General Discussion

Triple Entendre
Atrocity.
Posted - 2011.02.17 22:56:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: CCP Adida
Moved from General Discussion


Because fewer people seeing this will help the cause to no end.

Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.17 23:10:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: CCP Adida
Moved from General Discussion

Please move it back :/

w0rmy
Destructive Influence
Posted - 2011.02.17 23:32:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: CCP Adida
Moved from General Discussion


Did you even read the thread? sell orders?

Rolling Eyes


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