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blankseplocked T2 weapons worth it?
 
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Ooda
Posted - 2011.02.15 08:04:00 - [1]
 

Hello everyone.
I am a decent PvE-Carebear till now, and after some testing with T1+T2 Cruise missiles while doing Lv 4's,i noticed that T2 CM's just suck. (the Ammo)

After some reading in forums about this topic, i am wondering if it's worth to skill up any T2 Weapon. Basicly every post i read says " T2 Ammo suck, Drawbacks > benefits " and i rly want to know: Is that true? And if that's right, whats the point in Training for T2 and specializations?
(had a break in Eve since 03.2010, and many post's regarding this are some years old)

Whats the point in upgrading your guns, if u can just use Faction or even normal ammo and the results will end up beeing better? (unless u have the skills to work around those drawbacks, and sacrifice a lot of Carebear-Tank and realize some day that T1 or faction will do better?)

I also would like to know if its the same for every type of T2-Weapons? Do they all suffer from T2 specific drawbacks? ( I would like to cross train for Lazörs, pain in the ass i know, so i would like to know if it's worth, before i start training that long)

With thanks in advance,
Ooda

Boltorano
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
Posted - 2011.02.15 08:11:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Boltorano on 15/02/2011 08:12:50
Even if T2 ammo is not appropriate for your given situation, the 2% per level damage/RoF bonus you get from the T2 weapon specialization skills still makes the T2 gun/launcher worth training for.

Edit:

You still get the damage/RoF bonus with T1/faction ammunition.

Ooda
Posted - 2011.02.15 08:17:00 - [3]
 

So, the weapons are worth it, using the ammo is not?

Cindy Marco
Minmatar
The Warp Rats
Apotheosis of Virtue
Posted - 2011.02.15 08:21:00 - [4]
 

You train T2 weapons for the turrets/launchers. They are cheap, and equal to best named +2% per level of the skill to use them. Faction weapons can be better but cost alot more.

T2 ammo has drawbacks, sometimes its worth it, sometimes it isn't. It depends on your situation. Cruise precision do less damage, but hit small stuff a little better. Fury does more damage, but needs a bigger slower target to do full damage then T1 cruise does.

captain skinback
Posted - 2011.02.15 09:55:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: captain skinback on 15/02/2011 10:16:35
Originally by: Ooda
So, the weapons are worth it, using the ammo is not?


thats pretty much the case with missiles, the ammo for t2 guns are normaly pretty good.

theres a few occasions mainly in pvp wheres its viable to use t2 missiles. say if your using hams and you know your going up against something with a huge sig radius its worth using furys. but most of the time i dont bother loading them since i never really know what im going to be up against.

Sjugar
Posted - 2011.02.15 11:48:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Sjugar on 15/02/2011 11:48:36
T2 Cruise missiles require good skills and ship setup to benefit from them and overcome the drawbacks.

For instance
A low skilled raven with missile projection 3 and target navigation prediction 3 and capacitor control circuit rigs will have no use for T2 fury cruise missiles.

A high skilled raven, with those 2 skills at V, 3 rigor rigs, high skill in target painting and signature focusing will unlock the damage potential of those fury cruise missiles.

So in the damage is there, but it requires some work and training to be beneficial.

Amarrina Alticus
Posted - 2011.02.15 15:37:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Amarrina Alticus on 15/02/2011 15:37:46
T2 weapons are DEFINITELY worth it, but in most cases, T2 ammo is not worth using.

T2 weapons are better than the meta 4 versions (because they get an extra 2% bonus to damage or ROF per level of the relevant specialization skill). They are also much less expensive than the meta 4 weapons in almost all cases.

T2 ammo, however, is not often used. There are situations that call for it, however. I have seen people use the precision heavy missiles for some missions that have lots of small ships, and AHAC Zealot gangs often use T2 ammo (scorch I think). It all depends.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.02.15 17:32:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: captain skinback
say if your using hams and you know your going up against something with a huge sig radius its worth using furys.


That would be quite the trick considering there is no such thing as HAM Fury missiles.... (You meant Rage.)

As for the actual question at hand. Two points.

1) T2 weapons themselves are a big step up from Meta 4 weapons due to the spec skill. For missile users, however, fully skilled T2 launchers will always come in slightly behind high-meta faction launchers (CN and DG to be specific). Guns don't face this dilemma; T2 guns at spec 4 will beat all non-officer guns.

2) T2 ammo is crazy useful, even for PvE, and anyone who tells you otherwise is talking out of their ass. The majority of missiles you fire should be Fury (especially if you're using a Tengu or NH, but the same applies to cruise missiles). Hell, if I'm feeling lazy I'll fire Fury (heavies) at spider drones.

On the gunnery side, I would never undock without Scorch if I have pulses or Barrage if I'm fitting ACs. Ever. Sometimes you'll just want/need to reach out and touch someone in the worst way possible.

Hybrids are a little more ambiguous, but if you find yourself trying for a viable blaster fit in missions you'll likely need to base it around Null. T2 rail ammo, like T2 artie and beam ammo, is kinda meh for missions.

So yes. T2 is "worth it".

Misanthra
Posted - 2011.02.16 00:44:00 - [9]
 

unless you really must have cap stable, pull some CCC (I am assuming you are the usual 3 ccc raven/scorp variants setups, please correct if wrong) and throw in rigors. Then run split ammo load between t1 and t2. T1 for cruisers and bc's, t2 for bs'. Rigors > tp for hitting smaller stuff. T1 will also help to hit small stuff better. Small stuff dead, switch to t2 and light up the bs'. Drones ofc kill frigates/dessies unless you like wasting ammo lol. This setup works well on hml tengu as well (well except for drones part ofc lol).

Also cheaper in the long run. Why waste t2 ammo on small stuff my thinking. Especially when after you hobglobin any jamming/scramming frigates you can sick your hammerheads on the cruisers.

BS' though...slow targets and worth the dps boost and can't fudge the missile radius/velocity calcs as much to get more bang for the isk.

Dahak2150
Arm of Orion
Posted - 2011.02.16 19:04:00 - [10]
 

T2 weapons are great.

The only ammo that's worthwhile in my experience is long-range turret ammo. Short-range ammo has been largely supplanted by faction ammo, which does only slightly less damage but suffers fewer penalties. I have no experience concerning missiles.

Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.02.16 19:29:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ooda
So, the weapons are worth it, using the ammo is not?

For a lot of weapons, yes. 5% extra DPS to get the weapon skill at V is very nice, 2% for a level of specialization skill too.

Afaik the most used T2 ammo are Scorch, Barrage and Fury Heavy Missiles.

freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2011.02.17 03:05:00 - [12]
 

It's T2, META 4 OR GTFO...

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.02.17 03:43:00 - [13]
 

Depends entirely on what the situation calls for. Your choices are usually between meta 4, t2 and faction. Meta 4 has the upside of requiring less cpu and power than the other 2, being able to fit more due to that might increase the actual dps you're doing. T2 gets the skill bonus and allows t2 ammo, though it has the highest fitting requirements and in the case of lasers/hybrids, highest cap use. Faction needs less CPU (same power as t2 though) but has a built-in 5% damage bonus and uses less cap for hybrids and lasers.

I'd go out on a limb here and say that officer loot is superior in every way except sniping, just to make this comparison 'complete'. Obviously it's cost is a massive downside though, but you can't beat a built-in 25% damage bonus when using top officer gear.

Ooda
Posted - 2011.02.21 04:05:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Misanthra
unless you really must have cap stable, pull some CCC (I am assuming you are the usual 3 ccc raven/scorp variants setups, please correct if wrong) and throw in rigors. Then run split ammo load between t1 and t2. T1 for cruisers and bc's, t2 for bs'. Rigors > tp for hitting smaller stuff. T1 will also help to hit small stuff better. Small stuff dead, switch to t2 and light up the bs'. Drones ofc kill frigates/dessies unless you like wasting ammo lol. This setup works well on hml tengu as well (well except for drones part ofc lol).


I am not flying cap stable, but i guess you would call it overtanked :). Actually 2 CCC's and a Rigor. Plan to buy an even greater SB (Gist C-Type) to get more safety for my missionship. For now i am using T2 CM's, but T1 is doing rly nice damage (and in most cases, reliable) and the one thing that keeps me going with T2 is i am too lazy to ship 100k T1 CM's from Amarr to my Missionhub. The point is, i hit BS in missions like AE or Blockade with more dmg if i am using T1 missiles, and that just sucks. In my opinion, T2 should be considered "better" in all cases, and not "Oh, there may be a point where that Ammo might do more dmg, but in most cases it will not". I see the point where Missiles are different in dealing dmg, but for me T2 Ammo is not worthwhile on my missionship anymore.

Thanks for your response, but i am done with T2 Fury CM's.

Oh, and thanks to all of you responding, thanks for helping me out here.

Sjugar
Posted - 2011.02.21 04:36:00 - [15]
 

Angels are a special case, even their battleships are really fast in comparison to other races and the hurts the damage output of cruise missiles a lot.

For the angel anomalies I did switching from 3 rigors to 2 rigors and a flare was worthwhile, also a webber helped a lot.

This holds only true for angels because they're so fast though.

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2011.02.21 16:16:00 - [16]
 

Personal experiance?

Ammo isn't always as cost-effective as it could be, but things like scorch crystals are definately worthwhile.

Just my .02 ISK.




 

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