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blankseplocked some ship bonuses: why "per level"?
 
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Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.02.10 09:43:00 - [1]
 

Don't think i'm first who looks to this point.

I see T2 ships with bonuses like:
Enyo:
Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Damage

Assault Ships Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Optimal Range
7.5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Tracking Speed

Every time i look to this requirenments i wonder: why it has gallente frigate bonus per skill level when ship needs this skill at level 5 already? Why don't simply change description to: ship bonus - 25% to Small Hybrid Turret Damage. Or these 5% for each level have some kind of stacking rules?

Almost every T2/carrier ship has bonuses described the same way. Nothing wrong but makes strange questions Smile

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.02.10 10:43:00 - [2]
 

Because it is possible to be podded with an out of date clone and lose part of a level in one of those skills if it is your highest SP skill.


Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.02.10 11:01:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Because it is possible to be podded with an out of date clone and lose part of a level in one of those skills if it is your highest SP skill.



At which stage you cant use the ship as racial frigate 5 is needed.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.02.10 11:07:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 10/02/2011 11:07:15
if it doesn't cost extra resource, it's just doing things right. potentially, it's a contingency if skill requirements decrease.

note that jump freighters (T2) do not require L5 in faction Freighter skill.

Vorekk
LowBall Heavy Industries
Cloning Gone Wrong
Posted - 2011.02.11 01:45:00 - [5]
 

Because some ships, such as the Absolution (Amarr Command Ship) have a battlecruiser bonus. In this case, its 5% bonus to armor resistance per level. If you get podded, and go from Battlecruiser 5 to Battlecruiser 4, you will lose 5% armor resistance but you can still fly the ship, since it only requires Amarr Cruiser 5, Command Ships 1, and Heavy Assault Ships 4. The ship itself does not require the battlecruiser skill at all.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.02.11 01:49:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Breaker77
Because it is possible to be podded with an out of date clone and lose part of a level in one of those skills if it is your highest SP skill.



At which stage you cant use the ship as racial frigate 5 is needed.


If you are already in the ship you can. Just like people can fit T2 rigs and people without the skill to fit them can still use them.

Igualmentedos
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.11 01:50:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Vorekk
Because some ships, such as the Absolution (Amarr Command Ship) have a battlecruiser bonus. In this case, its 5% bonus to armor resistance per level. If you get podded, and go from Battlecruiser 5 to Battlecruiser 4, you will lose 5% armor resistance but you can still fly the ship, since it only requires Amarr Cruiser 5, Command Ships 1, and Heavy Assault Ships 4. The ship itself does not require the battlecruiser skill at all.


That...is an awesome find. You learn something new everyday.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.02.11 02:03:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 11/02/2011 02:05:31

Ships are likely balanced by assigning points to various attributes.

There would then be a budget limiting the points spent on each attribute.

A fixed 25% bonus is typically a very expensive attribute, compared to a 5%/level one even if level 5 is a prerequisite for the ship.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.02.11 02:08:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
If you are already in the ship you can. Just like people can fit T2 rigs and people without the skill to fit them can still use them.



I'd just like to point out that it is impossible to lose SP due to being podded and at the same time 'already' be in the ship. Being podded implies you're not in ship Wink

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.02.12 15:46:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Vorekk
Because some ships, such as the Absolution (Amarr Command Ship) have a battlecruiser bonus. In this case, its 5% bonus to armor resistance per level. If you get podded, and go from Battlecruiser 5 to Battlecruiser 4, you will lose 5% armor resistance but you can still fly the ship, since it only requires Amarr Cruiser 5, Command Ships 1, and Heavy Assault Ships 4. The ship itself does not require the battlecruiser skill at all.


Both that link and EVEMon says you need Battlecruisers V for the Absolution.

Have you been in an Absolution with just BC IV?

Originally by: Breaker77

If you are already in the ship you can. Just like people can fit T2 rigs and people without the skill to fit them can still use them.



If you get podded, you are placed in your medical bay station.. not piloting any ships.

Hya Bam
Minmatar
It's Hammer Time
Posted - 2011.02.12 16:34:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: Vorekk
Because some ships, such as the Absolution (Amarr Command Ship) have a battlecruiser bonus. In this case, its 5% bonus to armor resistance per level. If you get podded, and go from Battlecruiser 5 to Battlecruiser 4, you will lose 5% armor resistance but you can still fly the ship, since it only requires Amarr Cruiser 5, Command Ships 1, and Heavy Assault Ships 4. The ship itself does not require the battlecruiser skill at all.


Both that link and EVEMon says you need Battlecruisers V for the Absolution.

Have you been in an Absolution with just BC IV?
You only need BC5 to get the Command Ships skill; it's a prerequisite for the skill, but not for the ship. If you loose a level and go down to BC4, you still keep CS.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.02.12 19:17:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Breaker77
Because it is possible to be podded with an out of date clone and lose part of a level in one of those skills if it is your highest SP skill.



At which stage you cant use the ship as racial frigate 5 is needed.


If you are already in the ship you can. Just like people can fit T2 rigs and people without the skill to fit them can still use them.


LaughingLaughing

Vorekk
LowBall Heavy Industries
Cloning Gone Wrong
Posted - 2011.02.12 20:31:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: Vorekk
Because some ships, such as the Absolution (Amarr Command Ship) have a battlecruiser bonus. In this case, its 5% bonus to armor resistance per level. If you get podded, and go from Battlecruiser 5 to Battlecruiser 4, you will lose 5% armor resistance but you can still fly the ship, since it only requires Amarr Cruiser 5, Command Ships 1, and Heavy Assault Ships 4. The ship itself does not require the battlecruiser skill at all.


Both that link and EVEMon says you need Battlecruisers V for the Absolution.

Have you been in an Absolution with just BC IV?


For your first statement, I refer you to Hya Bam's post. To answer your question, yes I have. I will be more than happy to make short youtube video of it if you'd like.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.02.12 21:49:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Breaker77
If you are already in the ship you can. Just like people can fit T2 rigs and people without the skill to fit them can still use them.



I'd just like to point out that it is impossible to lose SP due to being podded and at the same time 'already' be in the ship. Being podded implies you're not in ship Wink


Embarassed Large volumes of beer does strange things to people Laughing


Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.02.12 22:08:00 - [15]
 

on amageddon day I didn't have amarr bs 5 and could still fly amarr cap ships

Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.12 22:13:00 - [16]
 

I was wondering the same thing when I saw T2 ship descriptions for the first time, but I've gotten used to it. Ideally it makes squat difference whichever way they do it, though this seems simpler, more descriptive, and safer.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.02.12 22:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
on amageddon day I didn't have amarr bs 5 and could still fly amarr cap ships


none of the Amarr cap ships require BS 5 to fly.

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.02.13 07:32:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
on amageddon day I didn't have amarr bs 5 and could still fly amarr cap ships


none of the Amarr cap ships require BS 5 to fly.


ALL capitals require you to have racial BS V except Rorqual which requires mining barge V.

Vorekk
LowBall Heavy Industries
Cloning Gone Wrong
Posted - 2011.02.13 07:43:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Vorekk on 13/02/2011 07:43:30
Originally by: Baneken
ALL capitals require you to have racial BS V except Rorqual which requires mining barge V.


Not true... try reading the topic one more time sir.

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.02.13 11:55:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Vorekk
Edited by: Vorekk on 13/02/2011 07:43:30
Originally by: Baneken
ALL capitals require you to have racial BS V except Rorqual which requires mining barge V.


Not true... try reading the topic one more time sir.


Still doesn't change the facts that you need racial BS V to fly any CAPITAL CLASS SHIP exept rorqual.

Capital ships are dreadnaughts, carriers and rorqual and super caps are Titans, and super carriers, the rest aren't CAPITAL SHIPS.
Just because you need adv.ss.command to fly it doesn't make it a capital ship.

Likewise skill 'capital ships' it self does nothing.

Fulbert
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.13 19:03:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Baneken
Likewise skill 'capital ships' it self does nothing.



Actually there are two definitions of capital ships :
- the spaceship command one : ships which need Capital Ship and Jump Drive Operation to pilot
- the industrial one : ships build from capital components. Freighters do.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.13 19:39:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Baneken
Still doesn't change the facts that you need racial BS V to fly any CAPITAL CLASS SHIP exept rorqual.

Capital ships are dreadnaughts, carriers and rorqual and super caps are Titans, and super carriers, the rest aren't CAPITAL SHIPS.
Incorrect.

You need BS V to train the relevant capital ship skill you don't need it to fly the ship.

All carriers have the same requirements: Capital Ship I (primary), [Racial] Carrier I (secondary) and Jump Drive Operation I (tertiary). Same for all dreadnoughts, except they require [Racial] Dreadnought I instead of [Racial] Carrier. Titans are much the same, except they require Capital Ships V on top of [Racial] Titan I. Notice how battleships aren't even on the list much less at lvl V.

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.02.13 20:22:00 - [23]
 

So you planned to train that amarr carrier without training amarr BS V first ?

Ergo you need racial BS V to fly a a capital ship or you going claim next that you don't need to train AWU V for a marauder because the skill description doesn't AWU V ?
Therefore it doesn't matter what capital it self needs in it's description when you till have to go through racial BS V to have that skill.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.13 21:03:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 13/02/2011 21:04:12
Originally by: Baneken
So you planned to train that amarr carrier without training amarr BS V first ?
That's not the point. The point is that you can fly some ships without having certain skills that you have to train in order to get them.
Quote:
Ergo you need racial BS V to fly a a capital ship
You only need to have trained it (if you go the normal route of skill progression). But no, you don't need to have it to fly the ship.
Quote:
you going claim next that you don't need to train AWU V for a marauder because the skill description doesn't AWU V ?
Same thing there: you need to have trained it; you don't need to have it.
Quote:
Therefore it doesn't matter what capital it self needs in it's description when you till have to go through racial BS V to have that skill.
Re-read the thread, and in particular the line of threads that lead us here: yes, it matters what the ship says it needs because that is all you need to fly it. How you get there and what happens afterwards is entirely irrelevant.

You do know that you can lose skills, and that people have been given skills without having the prereqs, right?

Vorekk
LowBall Heavy Industries
Cloning Gone Wrong
Posted - 2011.02.14 01:52:00 - [25]
 

Tippia is correct.


 

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