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Trin Javidan
Posted - 2011.02.09 23:10:00 - [1]
 

Is it? I see people giving up crying on forums about things that aint get fixed anyway Confused

this here

Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.09 23:16:00 - [2]
 

CSM are pets of sov null alliances. Thank god they're ineffective, otherwise all of us who are not sanctum chaining moogoo sucking kb humping blobers will be in big trouble.Laughing

Syphon Lodian
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.09 23:21:00 - [3]
 

Yep, pretty much.

They're not representatives, they are lobbyists.

HowardStern
Posted - 2011.02.09 23:23:00 - [4]
 

lol in general

Marcus Junius
Posted - 2011.02.09 23:35:00 - [5]
 

Allowing the CSM much more influence could allow those who can con their way on the CSM too much personal influence; if not already.
Probably not good for most of us.



Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.02.09 23:57:00 - [6]
 

It's called prioritization or making the best use of your time and resources. It means things get fixed and new things get added all the time, but in all likelyhood your pet peeve isn't going to be among the things that get fixed and your brilliant idea isn't going to get implemented. It's one of those necessities of real life, so get used to it.

The value of the CSM is filtering, helping with that priorization and help negotiate acceptable solutions to issues. While they do represent the people who voted for them, and I have been pleased with the representatives I voted, they naturally use the opportunity to get their pet peeves fixed too.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.02.10 01:44:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 10/02/2011 01:46:46
Originally by: Goose99
CSM are pets of sov null alliances. Thank god they're ineffective, otherwise all of us who are not sanctum chaining moogoo sucking kb humping blobers will be in big trouble.Laughing


No we're not. Check how many people are in 0.0 alliances... Also check the latest minutes of the CSM-CCP meeting in Iceland to get a big awakening.

As far as how effective we are, it depends on what. If one expects the CSM to dictate what CCP does, not very. If one expects the CSM to provide meaningful feedback on suggested changes and helping CCP determine where the priorities of the current playerbase as a whole stands, then we're very effective.

The fact is that developers spend less time playing the game than we do, as a whole, and not to the extent we're playing it. As such our input is very valuable.

As far as that linked thread is concerned it's always a question of priorities. There's a finite amount of developer resources. CCP has its own plans, wishes and vision, we have ours. Sometimes they coincide, sometimes not. So we have to find compromises and make the best use of the resources available. Black Ops have been put on the table, CCP has heard it, now you have to give them time to take all we've said into account and decide what to do. There's so many things that need improving/fixing/rebalancing...

That doesn't mean steps cannot be taken into improving things, one step at a time. Resource allocation is not necessarily easy, that's what we're most helpful with (and feedback).

Misanthra
Posted - 2011.02.10 02:15:00 - [8]
 

csm is good for fun posts in buy/sell. Always get the I have 5 votes for sale threads.


Also good for a sideline I have though about but never carried through (others can run it since sharing this idea, hard enough to play of late let alone run a pool/lottery setup lol).

My idea: an isk betting pool. For the elections...how many reps from blob alliances do we get. Some chance in this pool, last csm varied from prior runs and not all 0.0 alliance members iirc.


After the election though, the real fun pool begins....pool to see which csm member gets kicked out and banned for eula violations. this has been batting about 100 so far. make an pool bet option for no kicks at higher odds for good money in the off chance the next csm doesn't get one idiot who speculates in the billions on the market after thier trip to iceland lol.

Hoya en Marland
Posted - 2011.02.10 08:56:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Hoya en Marland on 10/02/2011 09:07:53

CSM is a joke. If CCP really wanted to hear what their playerbase think about this and that they would have server-wide polls/questionnaires built in the client, performed on regular bases.

But one thing is certain: CSM looks cool in CCP's portfolio.

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.02.10 09:05:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Goose99
CSM are pets of sov null alliances.

... which is why most null-sec alliances are seriously ****ed at the CSM proposals for a null-sec revamp?


Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.02.10 09:14:00 - [11]
 

What do you think when elected representatives of a whiny, fickle and never sastified player base flies out and talks to the developers.

CSM "DO WANT"
CCP "U CANT HAZ"

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.02.10 09:39:00 - [12]
 

Actually, the current CSM seem to have been doing a really good job. Now, lets make sure to keep Mittani's puppets out of there this time, so that we can finally get that jump bridge nerf!YARRRR!!

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2011.02.10 09:46:00 - [13]
 

I think if the CSM built a working spaceship out of duct tape and old kitchen utensils, half the EVE-O Fora would still declare that they hadn't achieved anything.

Arrakis Shai
Caldari
Deja Vu Holding
Posted - 2011.02.10 10:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
I think if the CSM built a working spaceship out of duct tape and old kitchen utensils, half the EVE-O Fora would still declare that they hadn't achieved anything.


Maybe they did?


xo3e
The Deliberate Forces
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.02.10 11:04:00 - [15]
 

csm is just for show. no really influence on ccp actions.

for how long csm asking to rebalance hybrid weapons? year? two?
and after all ccp just says "well... yeah.. maybe when we will add fancy laces into incarna and if there will be nothing to do else, than we will think about thinking about doing hybrid rebalance in 18 months"

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.10 12:45:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Kuronaga on 10/02/2011 12:45:29
I remember when the CSM argued with CCP for hours over microtransactions.

It was something like

CSM: No you don't!
CCP: Yes we are!
CSM: You better not!
CCP: We going to!
CSM: Nuh uh!
CCP: Ya huh!


So yea. CSM are there to give solid customer feedback, but that doesn't mean the customer is always right.

Actually, from a retail standpoint, the customer is almost always wrong.


It's just about making them think they are right.

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.02.10 12:53:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Kuronaga
Edited by: Kuronaga on 10/02/2011 12:45:29
I remember when the CSM argued with CCP for hours over microtransactions.

It was something like

CSM: No you don't!
CCP: Yes we are!
CSM: You better not!
CCP: We going to!
CSM: Nuh uh!
CCP: Ya huh!


So yea. CSM are there to give solid customer feedback, but that doesn't mean the customer is always right.

Actually, from a retail standpoint, the customer is almost always wrong.


It's just about making them think they are right.

While technical support is all about them realising they're wrong? Twisted Evil

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.02.10 12:55:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Kuronaga
I remember when the CSM argued with CCP for hours over microtransactions.

It was something like

CSM: No you don't!
CCP: Yes we are!
CSM: You better not!
CCP: We going to!
CSM: Nuh uh!
CCP: Ya huh!




And in the end CCP thought it over and adjusted their microtransaction policy.

No one says that the CSM is always useless!


And regarding the "pet" stuff? Well, it only means that the majority of the voters care about certain things more than about others. If you don't like it, then start a campaign to convince voters to vote for someone else!

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.10 13:49:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Illwill Bill
Originally by: Kuronaga
Edited by: Kuronaga on 10/02/2011 12:45:29
I remember when the CSM argued with CCP for hours over microtransactions.

It was something like

CSM: No you don't!
CCP: Yes we are!
CSM: You better not!
CCP: We going to!
CSM: Nuh uh!
CCP: Ya huh!


So yea. CSM are there to give solid customer feedback, but that doesn't mean the customer is always right.

Actually, from a retail standpoint, the customer is almost always wrong.


It's just about making them think they are right.

While technical support is all about them realising they're wrong? Twisted Evil


I'm sorry, our logs show nothing...

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.02.10 14:10:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
And in the end CCP thought it over and adjusted their microtransaction policy.

No one says that the CSM is always useless!


At best, you could say the CSM efforts merely delayed microtransactions. Just wait until (if) Incarna rolls around.

Calfis
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.02.10 15:21:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Goose99
CSM are pets of sov null alliances. Thank god they're ineffective, otherwise all of us who are not sanctum chaining moogoo sucking kb humping blobers will be in big trouble.Laughing


You mad bro?

Mad you don't have sanctums to chain?

Mad you don't have moon goo to suck?

Mad your kb sucks arse?

Rolling Eyes

Durnin Stormbrow
Posted - 2011.02.10 15:45:00 - [22]
 

The power of the CSM is limited to providing face to face feedback to CCP on issues that the vocal elements of the player base bring up, and providing some focus group feedback on any NDA items that CCP chooses to bring to their attention. That's really all they are empowered to do. They can't force CCP to respond to that feedback, or force CCP to make any changes to Eve or the direction they plan to take it in.

Given what they are empowered to do, I think this has been the most effective CSM yet.

Until a game company is founded on the business model of the player base as an invested stakeholder and 'owner' of the product or company, rather than a customer or a marketing target, I don't expect that it'll get much better than this.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.02.10 15:51:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Cyprus Black on 10/02/2011 15:51:28
Yeah I lost all confidence in the CSM process when CCP failed to deal with certain individual joke CSM members who were doing nothing but clowning around.

As far as I'm concerned, The whole CSM process is just as broken and useless as Faction Warfare.

James Tiberius Kirk
Posted - 2011.02.10 16:03:00 - [24]
 

This thread is now about finding an amusing bacronym for CSM.

CCP StevieSG

Posted - 2011.02.10 16:17:00 - [25]
 

Moved to JPSC from EVE General.

Serious Internet Politician
www.seriousinternetpolitician.com
Posted - 2011.02.10 19:37:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Cyaxares II
Originally by: Goose99
CSM are pets of sov null alliances.

... which is why most null-sec alliances are seriously ****ed at the CSM proposals for a null-sec revamp?


Not all CSMs are in 0.0sec alliances, nor the candidates.
Vote for one of these candidates and get some support from your corps and friends to help get them a spot.

goodluck.
SiP.



Xtoveruss
Posted - 2011.02.11 15:34:00 - [27]
 

lol, everyone knows csm is just for show...Exclamation

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.11 18:29:00 - [28]
 

From CCP's standpoint the CSM primarily exists to "Manage Player Expectations". When CCP does something that is not well received by the players, like failing to fix something that's been broken for a long time, CCP leans on the CSM to explain it to the players. Since the explanations come from player elected people, they are more palatable to the players than something handed down from CCP directly.

From the CSM’s perspective the CSM exists to advocate for player interests. Some of this has been for special interests in EVE and some has been for the benefit of the game in general. The recent history of the CSM/CCP relationship suggests that some of the discussions have been heated. CSM advocates changes the players want and/or the special interest of the CSM want. CCP advocates changes they want the CSM to forward to the players in a favorable light.

CCP also resists doing anything that will not, in their view, provide a good return on investment of their resources. This last is why things remain broken. CCP believes that new content brings them more money, faster, than fixing the old things that are broken. That’s why those things remain broken. The CSM can, and evidence suggests that they do, yell about this all they want and CCP won’t budge, relying upon phrases like “the data doesn’t support your conclusions”.

Being a member of the CSM involves a LOT of work. Work that is frustrating and has no return other than a trip to Iceland (big yip), 15 minutes of fame and every once in a rare while making a positive change or prevention of a negative change to the game. I really don’t know why they would want the job, but they’re welcome to it and I’m glad for whatever positive change they make or negative change they assist in preventing. An example of this is the CSM’s adamant opposition to micro transactions of the type CCP wanted to put in. They apparently were able to give CCP the necessary feedback to prevent it. Thus they helped the players and also helped CCP by preventing them from making a mistake which would have cost them money.

I disagree with the CSM at times, such is the way of politics, but I’m happier having them there than I would be without them. They do function. Not fixing broken content should be laid at the feet of CCP, not the CSM.

Best regards,
Windjammer

rootimus maximus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.19 01:01:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
Given what they are empowered to do, I think this has been the most effective CSM yet.



I couldn't agree more. A number of them really threw themselves into it.

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.02.19 17:00:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Trin Javidan
Is it? I see people giving up crying on forums about things that aint get fixed anyway Confused

this here


Ho let me help you:

2009 stuff

Another thread about Wallente

There are plenty like these to show up CSM it's useless for what the game is about: spaceships

But: hulkageddon and jump bridges are so important i'm pretty sure all your eve lifes are completly changed and better with that stuff.


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