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Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.08 23:50:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Rule18 on 09/02/2011 00:20:53
Anyone here familiar with Wacky races?
intro movie - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxhRr-Ea61c

Or Rat Race?
trailer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2gkAke_Zkk&feature=related

Or the Gumball 3000 irl?
wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumball_3000

Anyway, I saw my little brothers watching this and I started to wonder, "has anyone ever run a no-holds-barred endurance race in Eve?"

The basic idea would be to set a start system and end system allowing racers to take any route between. Timing would be accomplished via the issue of private contracts and a piece of unique cargo racers would not have knowledge of prior to the race.

2 weeks prior to race signups will open and racers will be added to the list (limit of 20?) for a small entrance fee (to be decided later). All isk will go through a reputable 3rd party/ api verifiable holding player/corp. At registration, players will specify their ship (fitting info not required).

1 week prior to the race registration will close and betting will open. Fixed odds between 2 and 5 to 1 will be offered on all racers and again, all isk will go through the same verifiable 3rd party. Limitations will be placed on max single bet, max total betting and max betting per racer (amount to be decided later).

Race day players will show up in designated start system at designated time and contracts/cargo will b issued. the race will end when the third player fills his contract at the finish system and entrance fees will be distributed as prize money. bets will also be distributed.

In the event a player doesn't show up on race day, they forfeit their entrance fee and all related bets will be refunded. Should too many racers fail to show (say 40% or more) all bets will be refunded.

During the race anything goes, there is also no fixed "track" (possibly add in a waypoint or two but for the mot part players choose course). Racers are free to involve their corps, friends, alliances w/e. Suicide ganking is not only acceptable but encouraged (possibly use excess entrance fee isk to pay racer-kill bounties?) If the race is successful, we'd go again every month or so.

Thanks for reading, please post thoughts/opinions, I personally think it could be a lot of fun.

-Edit 2/8/11-

It was suggested that Bms be used in combination with cargo/contracts in order to create a "track." The idea would be to seed containers in various systems (3-10) the day prior to the races with Bms leading to the next can in the sequence. Cans could be either in station or in space (to be decided).

-End Edit-

-Rule18

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.09 00:11:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Rule18 on 11/02/2011 04:02:44
Edited by: Rule18 on 10/02/2011 19:53:56
Volunteers- This will list people/responsibilities volunteered for.

-Corporate Involvement-
Eve Race Planning Group (eRPG) - Planning committee/future race host

-Planning-
Rule18 - Current organizer (duh)

-Race Day-
Rule18 - Ref #1 (sacrificial?!)

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.02.09 00:30:00 - [3]
 

You ought to consult with Chribba. I ran in one of his races using a viator (not as fast as a covert ops or inty, it turns out, but it tanks smart bombs better Razz). We flew only to landmarks that you could warp to directly (moons, things like that). At each stop, a labeled can was present which gave you a bit of information. You entered that info into a web site and got the next location.

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.09 00:34:00 - [4]
 

Interesting, I did some brief searching before posting but didn't see anything. Mind shooting me a link?

Eunson
MenageTech
Posted - 2011.02.09 00:38:00 - [5]
 

I would love to be part of a race like this sounds fun

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.02.09 03:44:00 - [6]
 

Here was the advertisement for Chribba's 2008 LoveQuest that included a speed race.

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.09 07:10:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Rule18 on 09/02/2011 07:17:57
Thanks for the link, I also noticed there that someone else posted a race link in the events category a few days before me... gotta love my timing. Anyway, should this thread be moved or is it appropriate here because the ongoing discussion will involve betting/financials?

-Edit-

Link to other thread - Low Sec Race

-End Edit-

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.09 08:53:00 - [8]
 

Hello Rule18,

I've moved this thread to 'Events & Gatherings'; please feel free to discuss your idea here.


Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.10 05:02:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Rule18 on 10/02/2011 05:21:39
Thanks for the move. Sorry about the poor placement, I hadn't even seen this section before Embarassed

Some new issues that have been brought to my attention:

1. Players can complete courier contracts remotely (and accept them)

2. Players can use alts to mess with betting (haven't bothered to do the math if bets are capped properly...)

-New Ideas-

3. Another idea I'd had was to "sell" systems in the track to corps/investors (for x amount of isk the group could designate a system/location of their choosing as a portion of the race) anyway, the issue with this was potential leaking to other parties...

4. Also, I thought about asking for prize donations... but then I realized there's no real incentive in Eve (no tax write off etc) so I guess the issue with this is how to go about generating prize money/ the collateral for the event?

Thoughts please? I am really interested in making something like this happen at least once and I feel a running dialogue would help get the kinks ironed out... If it's more convenient feel free to shoot this acnt (Rule18) an eve mail.

-Edit-

No race is legit without a cool name so, here's something to get the ball rolling: 1mil isk for posting a potential name, 100mil isk if I use it!

-Rules-
1. No more than 100 total entries
2. Repeats don't count (duh!)
3. This will stop when I get a name!

-End Edit-

Thanks again for reading, I appreciate your contributions!

M To
Posted - 2011.02.10 06:22:00 - [10]
 

First of all i would like to say that this sounds like a good and fun idea.
Quote:
At registration, players will specify their ship (fitting info not required).
The first thing that came to my mind when i read this was:
Why not let every player use the same ship? This sort of equals the chances. Everybody can fly shuttles and everybody should be able to fly any t1 frig within a couple of hours. But than i realized it all depends on the type of race you want.
If you want something like Rat Race, it doesn't matter what you use as long as you get to the finish.
Quote:
Timing would be accomplished via the issue of private contracts and a piece of unique cargo racers would not have knowledge of prior to the race.
But what happens if somebody gets blown up? That way they will loose the cargo and can not complete the race. Unless they buy the item somewhere at the market (if possible), but that is a potential exploid as people can buy that item in the correct location and than finish the courier contract.

How about this idea:
You find a quiet system, let everybody gather in the same station. That way you can check who is present and participates. At the specified start time you say in local what the destination is. You have a second char in a station in the destination system. If somebody finishes, they say it in local or a private chat/channel hosted by you and you can check if they are in station to confirm they finished.

Idea's for names:
  • Rat Race
  • Eveball (reference to Gumball)
  • Death Race (As people are allowed to shoot eachother)
  • Eve Le Mans (reference to the 1000 miles/1600km Petit Le Mans race)
  • The R1/Rule 1 (reference to Formula 1/F1 and your char name)
  • Stock Ship Race (Reference to Stock car racing/NASCAR)


Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.10 06:38:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: M To
First of all i would like to say that this sounds like a good and fun idea.
The first thing that came to my mind when i read this was:
Why not let every player use the same ship? This sort of equals the chances. Everybody can fly shuttles and everybody should be able to fly any t1 frig within a couple of hours. But than i realized it all depends on the type of race you want.
If you want something like Rat Race, it doesn't matter what you use as long as you get to the finish.


TBH, the goal is something more along the lines of Rat Race. The more ridiculous, creative and desperate racers get, the better. Should some limitations be placed on ships? Perhaps. Could "Awards" be offered for completing the race with certain ship options? (100mil bonus if you do it in a noob ship etc) Perhaps.

I haven't mentioned anything yet, but I would like to get coverage at at least a couple key systems and provide a running commentary/ blow-by-blow to capture all the gory details!

Originally by: M To

But what happens if somebody gets blown up? That way they will loose the cargo and can not complete the race. Unless they buy the item somewhere at the market (if possible), but that is a potential exploid as people can buy that item in the correct location and than finish the courier contract.


Lol, good point. I'd thought it over and coulda sworn I posted something but I guess not. Ideally a "blown up" racer would have to return to the last checkpoint they made it through (repeat current contract).

Originally by: M To

How about this idea:
You find a quiet system, let everybody gather in the same station. That way you can check who is present and participates. At the specified start time you say in local what the destination is. You have a second char in a station in the destination system. If somebody finishes, they say it in local or a private chat/channel hosted by you and you can check if they are in station to confirm they finished.



Interesting, it would take a little more doing but could work... the issue I see with it is what if some random person (or a racer) chooses to gank my character at just the wrong time? Lol, maybe killing the refs could be just another part of it.

Anyway, isk sent for name ideas. I'm liking R1 and Eveball :-P

keep it coming!

-Rule18

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:47:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Rule18


Interesting, it would take a little more doing but could work... the issue I see with it is what if some random person (or a racer) chooses to gank my character at just the wrong time? Lol, maybe killing the refs could be just another part of it.


Put him into position a few days ahead of the contest. And if the alt is cloaked and sufficiently far enough away from things that can decloak him, he is invulnerable. A cloaked recon or covert ops is good enough.

John Tacos
Posted - 2011.02.10 19:28:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: John Tacos on 10/02/2011 19:28:24
I have also had this idea but could not find anyone else to help me, I would love to help you with this, I think it could be profitable, and even a good buisness to start a corp arround.



Name ideas:
Sell the name to make isk
Eve Rally 1 (just number each race)

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.10 19:52:00 - [14]
 

Quote:
Put him into position a few days ahead of the contest. And if the alt is cloaked and sufficiently far enough away from things that can decloak him, he is invulnerable. A cloaked recon or covert ops is good enough.


True, problem is I don't have any accounts with that kind of training and we would need at least 5 people setup to pull off what I'm trying to do. (Sure, we could still do a simple point A to point B and have the accounts docked in stations on either end... but lets call that plan B for now)

I suppose we could also get people with the appropriate ships/skills to volunteer... Definitely potential with this idea (and it sounds like a lot less work than my contracts idea).

Quote:

I have also had this idea but could not find anyone else to help me, I would love to help you with this, I think it could be profitable, and even a good buisness to start a corp arround.



Name ideas:
Sell the name to make isk
Eve Rally 1 (just number each race)



Glad to here it, feel free to drop me an evemail or I'm on the events chat channel pretty regularly.

Nice name idea... sry but I'm not gunna give out isk if you just keep changing the number :-P but I am a fan of selling the name... 1 mil isk sent and 100mil if thats the method we go with!

I suppose I should start keeping track of people who would like to participate... If you're down to help with the race planning and/or race day please just post or message me what you'd like to do and I'll add you to the volunteer list.

-Rule18

Q OSC
Gallente
Taurus Quantum Technologies
Taurus Quantum Dynamics
Posted - 2011.02.10 20:33:00 - [15]
 

Good stuff , nice to see your taking it all the way :-)
Count me in!

It might be a good idea to make this race abit more accessable to different timezones , setup 4 parts to it or something in that direction...

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.10 21:07:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Rule18 on 11/02/2011 04:00:45
Originally by: Q OSC
Good stuff , nice to see your taking it all the way :-)
Count me in!

It might be a good idea to make this race abit more accessable to different timezones , setup 4 parts to it or something in that direction...


I'm leaning toward a 100-jump-ish race that hits all 4 playable races (who knows maybe we'll toss jov in for fun). Creating a race segment for jumps within each race's space (haha word play) would be a cool way to do it and would allow for more betting, participation etc.

Thanks for the contribution!

Also, I've decided to set up a corp for this event. As of now, I'll invite people interested in coordinating the event but it may eventually be used for racer organization and financials (probably not financials). Will edit this post and the volunteer list to include the corp name as soon as its formed.

-Edit-

The corporation to be used for planning and organization is - Eve Race Planning Group (eRPG)

-End Edit-

-Rule18

Droidster
Posted - 2011.02.10 22:43:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Droidster on 10/02/2011 22:51:09
Back in 2004-5 there was a race, I forget what it was called. Man, it was unbelievable fun. I was one of the 50 finalists. It was so cool jumping through every territory in the map and leaving the tacklers in the dust. Back in those days you could fit dual MWD on a Taranis and go like 20,000 km/hr. It was just like the Gumball rally, no holds barred. We were blowing through gate camps like they weren't even there. In those days there was no cloaking or anything like that, just pure speed.

Nowadays it would never work. The alliances would set up bubbles and take down every ship in the race. You would have to make bubbles temporarily inoperative for the race to be feasible.

The way the race worked is that there were "sponsor" corporations and each corporation would sponsor, I think, 5 racers. You picked your qualifier for a given corp and if you qualified you became one of their racers. For example, my sponsor was Hyasoda. I got +5 standing with Hyasoda for being one of their racers.

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.11 02:03:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Droidster
Edited by: Droidster on 10/02/2011 22:51:09
Back in 2004-5 there was a race, I forget what it was called. Man, it was unbelievable fun. I was one of the 50 finalists. It was so cool jumping through every territory in the map and leaving the tacklers in the dust. Back in those days you could fit dual MWD on a Taranis and go like 20,000 km/hr. It was just like the Gumball rally, no holds barred. We were blowing through gate camps like they weren't even there. In those days there was no cloaking or anything like that, just pure speed.

Nowadays it would never work. The alliances would set up bubbles and take down every ship in the race. You would have to make bubbles temporarily inoperative for the race to be feasible.

The way the race worked is that there were "sponsor" corporations and each corporation would sponsor, I think, 5 racers. You picked your qualifier for a given corp and if you qualified you became one of their racers. For example, my sponsor was Hyasoda. I got +5 standing with Hyasoda for being one of their racers.


Interesting. One thought is that all actual checkpoints will be in hi-sec so racers could choose to take the long/safe route or to dive through lowsec and risk bubbles etc but then what's to stop everyone from going hi sec?

Also, for what its worth, the full track details wont be released until race day (potentially with the exception of corps who "purchase" checkpoints prior to...) and racers could even find out about checkpoints one at a time.

As far as allowing corps to sponsor racers, I don't see why that can't still happen. Corp offers to pay racer's entrance fee/insure their ship in return for advertising/% of winnings?

On a separate note, I figured out a way to create unique items. Damaged drones. Simple right? Just create a batch of say 50 drones each lowered to specific hp/armor (doesn't have to be the same) and issue 1 to each racer at start (maybe add a few spares at checkpoints for ppl that get popped). This could allow the use of remote contracts instead of player refs.

Also, who here knows anything about betting? I was trying to figure out %s and I realized its a lot more complicated than I had assumed :-(

-Rule18


John Tacos
Posted - 2011.02.11 02:57:00 - [19]
 

The betting could be done by a 3rd party, or at least underwritten or insured by them (there are corps that do that)

Having a short cut through low sec would make the race even more interesting, and dangerous.

More naming ideas:

Eve Racing League
The Roundabout
Toure de Galaxy
Toure de Eve

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.11 03:59:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Rule18 on 11/02/2011 04:07:26
Originally by: John Tacos
The betting could be done by a 3rd party, or at least underwritten or insured by them (there are corps that do that)

Having a short cut through low sec would make the race even more interesting, and dangerous.

More naming ideas:

Eve Racing League
The Roundabout
Toure de Galaxy
Toure de Eve


The financial accountability aspect of gambling I understand. A corp mate suggested a method in which I simply supply capital = to the max betting amount to be paid out to a neutral third party and then handle all of the transactions through my own corp. (Full accountability on my end and the third party just has to take, verify i pay and then return).

When I say understanding betting... I'm more asking about the process of the assigning of odds, betting caps and capital generation related to.

The current system I'm entertaining is this:
-Race Betting-
1. Minimum bet is 10mil
2. Returns on bet will initially scale from 200% - 500%
2a. First 5 bets (50mil) pay 500% (250mil total) the next 5 bets pay 400% (200mil total) and so on down to 200%
2b. These bets must be made on a racer to win
3. Total payout on betting made on any given racer will be capped at 25% of total payout for all bets
3a. Total payout will be limited to capital contributed (mentioned above, more on it later)
3b. Players who contribute capital may not bet (but racers still can)

-Event Betting-
1. Participation and % payout restrictions from general betting apply
2. Bet made on player to win event (versus individual race)
3. Pays 1000, 800, 600, 400% on first, second, third and any additional 50mil in bets
(these rates are purely arbitrary atm and are predicated upon a multi-part race)

-Other Betting-
I'm open to other ideas, such as survival betting (whether or not a racer is popped) but don't have enough to post atm.

-Betting Capital- (this is the more on it later part)
Rather than ask an intermediary to take/document bets etc all bets will be made on a public forum and any post showing "edited" or which is posted following and acceptance post will be voided. The intermediary will instead be asked to hold a lump sum of isk collateral which I and any other investors may contribute. All bet money will be instead placed in the Eve Race Planning Group's wallet. No bet money will actually reach the intermediary. Upon race completion bet winnings will be paid out as documented and disputes (if any) will be resolved on open forum. Should more isk need be paid out than was collected (shouldn't happen if betting restrictions are made properly) then it will be paid out of the collateral the intermediary holds. Should a surplus remain (highly likely) it will be distributed in equal parts to capital contributors. Effectively this mitigates any financial risk to betters by placing it solely on capital contributors (right now, that's just me).

Criteria will have to be met in order to make a capital contribution, likely I'll ask a certain amount of effort to be made in making this race happen. More on this when we actually have a viable product/event :-P

Oh my that was a long winded post... Thoughts?

Oh, and btw transferring isk for name ideas now (and updating earlier posts to reflect corporation's name)

-Rule18

Droidster
Posted - 2011.02.11 07:06:00 - [21]
 

The way the original race worked is that it was run by CCP GMs. Each GM chaperoned one of the teams. There were 10 "corporate sponsors", all NPC corps like Hyasoda or Duvolle. First you raced in a qualifier. Each corporation had a separate qualifier. The qualifiers were in empire space. The top 5 finishers in each qualifier were seeded to the final, so there were 5x10 = 50 racers in the final. The final was a cross-cosmos race across the galaxy. The route was not announced until the moment the race started. As I recall it started deep in Genesis, sort of the bottom of the map and ended way up in Branch or Tenal or something, deep in 0.0 space. The destination location was camped by CCP so if you got there you were safe. We all collected in a starter system and then the destination system was named and the race was on. As soon as the destination was announced every single gate camper, pirate, alliance patrol, you name it was setting up along the route so about 1/3 of the racers never made it to the end. Some of the bigger alliances were trying to let their members pass and block the others but it was way too chaotic for those efforts to have much effect. Be aware that back in those days "alliances" were purely unofficial, they did not exist in game.

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.11 19:13:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Droidster
The way the original race worked is that it was run by CCP GMs. Each GM chaperoned one of the teams. There were 10 "corporate sponsors", all NPC corps like Hyasoda or Duvolle. First you raced in a qualifier. Each corporation had a separate qualifier. The qualifiers were in empire space. The top 5 finishers in each qualifier were seeded to the final, so there were 5x10 = 50 racers in the final. The final was a cross-cosmos race across the galaxy. The route was not announced until the moment the race started. As I recall it started deep in Genesis, sort of the bottom of the map and ended way up in Branch or Tenal or something, deep in 0.0 space. The destination location was camped by CCP so if you got there you were safe. We all collected in a starter system and then the destination system was named and the race was on. As soon as the destination was announced every single gate camper, pirate, alliance patrol, you name it was setting up along the route so about 1/3 of the racers never made it to the end. Some of the bigger alliances were trying to let their members pass and block the others but it was way too chaotic for those efforts to have much effect. Be aware that back in those days "alliances" were purely unofficial, they did not exist in game.


Very interesting that ccp sponsored it... any chance you can dig up a link?

Qualifiers sound good but tbh, its just more to organize and at this point we haven't even made the primary event work... If you'd like to come onboard and help directly with the planning, I'd be much more open to the idea

I will also be posting a rudimentary IPO for the corp/race financials soon. (First post will be in this thread and a refined version will later b posted for investment in the market section.)

-Rule18

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.14 21:04:00 - [23]
 

Sorry for the delay between this post and the last. Progress is being made on the IPO (about half way to having a draft), we almost have a site/forum ready and the corporation has been established (currently in the process of transferring roles/corp skills).

Going forward, look for that IPO in the next week or so and lets get the hype going! I have yet to discuss this with someone who doesn't think it's a good idea... but where's the community support? Post links, tell your friends, shoot me ideas (I'll listen just ask John Tacos!)

Let's make this happen!

-Rule18


John Tacos
Posted - 2011.02.15 06:11:00 - [24]
 

Any help is welcome, we do pay, and if you want we still have positions available for organizing this.

And we would love suggestions from potential racers.

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.21 15:52:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Rule18 on 23/02/2011 09:32:07
Ka-Bump!

Dallmarr
Posted - 2011.02.24 04:24:00 - [26]
 

don't worry about bubble camps, any "racer" worth a damn will get past it Twisted Evil


hell, just think of pitting in a station to change out mods to deal with bubble camps as part of the race once are about to go past 0.1 Razz


and you might think about doing a two contract system. one contract to a 0.0 system, then another back to a 0.9 for the finish ugh

Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.24 04:48:00 - [27]
 

as much as i appreciate your enthusiasm and contribution, CRAVE represents a framework for events, such as the one proposed here. I will personally be sponsoring an event similar to this after CRAVE has gained a sufficient fan base, administrative stuff is on auto pilot etc

(and yes, we're "not worried" about gate camps any more :-P )


 

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