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blankseplocked What are your thoughts on this 'exploit' ?
 
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Tammarr
Posted - 2011.02.10 02:25:00 - [91]
 

Hmm, if docking/scooping gives you a 1 minute timer. Then its fine.
If you cant put it into the sma or board a ship from the sma for that matter for being aggroed. That would be bad, carry a spare dictor or two or ceptor/bomber is quite common.
Agreed on giving the carrier a 60 sec aggro timer, in any real non stationgame(aggotry) situation, 60 seconds before you can dock wont matter =)

Relain Linday
Amarr
Disposable Warriors
STR8NGE BREW
Posted - 2011.02.10 04:09:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Tammarr
Hmm, if docking/scooping gives you a 1 minute timer. Then its fine.
If you cant put it into the sma or board a ship from the sma for that matter for being aggroed. That would be bad, carry a spare dictor or two or ceptor/bomber is quite common.
Agreed on giving the carrier a 60 sec aggro timer, in any real non stationgame(aggotry) situation, 60 seconds before you can dock wont matter =)


It gives the person who uses the ship maintenance bay a 30 second "Session Change" timer, but that isn't the point - his ship is safe inside the carrier and the carrier is under no threat whatsoever and the aggressed person can warp there pod to safety instantly (No bubbles/smartbomb's on lowsec stations)

The debate now, seems to be whether or not the carrier should get the aggro, or the pilot shouldn't be able to swap ships until his aggression timer is over. If we do go with the carrier getting the aggro, then I really believe a dialog box would be required as stated in my previous post. Else we will see so many spys killing so many supercaps, titans, carriers.

rekcuf bmuD
Posted - 2011.02.10 04:51:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: rekcuf bmuD on 10/02/2011 04:53:48
Originally by: Relain Linday
Originally by: Tammarr
Hmm, if docking/scooping gives you a 1 minute timer. Then its fine.
If you cant put it into the sma or board a ship from the sma for that matter for being aggroed. That would be bad, carry a spare dictor or two or ceptor/bomber is quite common.
Agreed on giving the carrier a 60 sec aggro timer, in any real non stationgame(aggotry) situation, 60 seconds before you can dock wont matter =)


It gives the person who uses the ship maintenance bay a 30 second "Session Change" timer, but that isn't the point - his ship is safe inside the carrier and the carrier is under no threat whatsoever and the aggressed person can warp there pod to safety instantly (No bubbles/smartbomb's on lowsec stations)

The debate now, seems to be whether or not the carrier should get the aggro, or the pilot shouldn't be able to swap ships until his aggression timer is over. If we do go with the carrier getting the aggro, then I really believe a dialog box would be required as stated in my previous post. Else we will see so many spys killing so many supercaps, titans, carriers.

I thought the pilot could set the control over who accesses their bays...

Joe McAlt
Posted - 2011.02.10 06:51:00 - [94]
 

When I am out mining in my hulk I keep the maintenance bay of my other toons orca open with my Drake ready. If I see someone acting strange around me I quickly switch to the Drake. This will work even if I am under attack (and end up being quite a surprise as concord blows them apart)

The difference though is that I'm not firing back at that point. I'd have to agree that if I fired I should suffer the same penalty as I would at a gate or station. Call it interference from the targeting system, safety procedures due to loaded weapons, whatever.

Silence iKillYouu
The innocent criminals
Posted - 2011.02.10 08:30:00 - [95]
 

I like this feature.

U guys seem mad

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2011.02.10 13:47:00 - [96]
 

Two obvious points:
Remote reppers should inherit the timers and attendant prohibitions on docking/jumping of the guy they're repping
The re-docking timer on aggressed capitals should be increased to five minutes or so

Two things that are apparently impossible for stupid people to do in lieu of the above fixes:
Create decent insta-undocks
Ignore station-gaming morons

Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.10 16:24:00 - [97]
 

so start shooting the carrier? he should be flagged too

this isn't an exploit, IMO

Relain Linday
Amarr
Disposable Warriors
STR8NGE BREW
Posted - 2011.02.10 16:32:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Relain Linday on 10/02/2011 16:32:57
Originally by: Chandaris
so start shooting the carrier? he should be flagged too

this isn't an exploit, IMO


This just doesn't make sense? The carrier is never aggressed, this is one of the main problems.

It has also been said several times and in the first post that this is considered to not be an exploit, but a major flaw in game mechanics.


Maylin Li
Caldari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:14:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Chandaris
so start shooting the carrier? he should be flagged too

this isn't an exploit, IMO


The carrier just instantly docks with the Agressed ship in it's ship maintenance bay, safely, it does not get any aggression timer, and storing a ship doesn't add a timer which prevents it from docking.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:28:00 - [100]
 

The mechanics are obviously not intended but its been like this for ages. Chances of a "fix"? Close to zero.

Yes its annoying but its not like you have to go engaging on-station in low-sec is it? I just don't go anywhere near high/low-sec station games as I find them boring.

Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
Posted - 2011.02.10 21:07:00 - [101]
 

I fully agree that this IS an exploit. Eve by nature has never been intended to be "risk free." for those of u trolling with "deal with it," are clearly the ones utilizing this method. How dare we threaten their "cheap" play-style. It was quite an oversight for CCP to claim this is as intended, when u can swap ships on the fly w/o any drawbacks to the carrier. Since last i looked, all mechanics in regards to aiding a flagged pilot, marked them flagged as well. So why is this any different? Sharing aggro for ship swapping should get flagged, and you should not be able to swap ships while warp scram/disrupted... U certainly can't board a ship that's locked, so why allow it here? Very lame CCP... Guess u could call this an intended exploit... And not a game balance.

Lord Ryan
Derailleurs
Posted - 2011.02.10 21:38:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Othran
The mechanics are obviously not intended but its been like this for ages. Chances of a "fix"? Close to zero.

Yes its annoying but its not like you have to go engaging on-station in low-sec is it? I just don't go anywhere near high/low-sec station games as I find them boring.


don't if the OP is talking about the guy a know. but he gets tons of free frig/pod kills while i'm pounding away at him in my bc. his armor drops and he docks or whatever, no risk to him while other are losing ship and pods. i have yet to see his pod warp away, maybe i'm just bored and not paying attention anymore. but it has been said over and over again by ccp, no risk free pvp, no instant win botton.

JoCool
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.10 21:42:00 - [103]
 

Looks like an exploit to me. This wasn't intended to happen I guess.

illirdor
Gallente
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.02.10 23:19:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
It makes sense that a ship that is in trouble can run back to its 'mothership', in the same way that we recall drones which are damaged. However, the parent ship should inherit all aggression. And any ships which are launched should inherit the parent ship's aggression too. And related gangs, if applicable.

Basically aggression mechanics just need to make logical sense. Which is pretty much never going to happen.



^This fixed next plz....

Silence iKillYouu
The innocent criminals
Posted - 2011.02.11 02:38:00 - [105]
 

U lot don't understand.
Docking in carriers is working as intended.
Don't blame CCP cause players have found a good use

Just because ur not smart enough to work out how to counter this tactic dosent mean there is no way to counter it.

Some players know how. But I'm not telling .

Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2011.02.11 04:02:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 11/02/2011 04:06:14
It isn't risk free, I've lost many ship doing this from being alphaed through the carriers reps (getting titan bridged on by the NC derp). Anyway, I do this because I got sick of blobs...so go blob and leave me have my fun nuking your guys on the undock.

raney ilara
Posted - 2011.02.11 08:43:00 - [107]
 

Quote:
I'd have no trouble if they removed that option From the Orca as long as they also removed the insanely OP, no cans needed, miner capability.


ha.. one has nothing to do with the other. Nice straw-man though.


The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.02.13 16:51:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Relain Linday

I understand your point, I would still however prefer that the person who is aggressed be not allowed to dock there ship at the ship maintenance bay.



You won't get this change as long as CCP consider that one of the underlying design parameters for ship maintenance bays is to enable people to change ships in open space and at starbases in the context of an ongoing battle for space superiority.

You are addressing a side effect of this basic design goal. Certainly, it can be addressed and in one way or another arguably it should be addressed. But it won't be addressed by something that undercuts the basic functionality of ship maintenance bays.

They're intended to provide refitting, reshipping and reinforcement in battlefield situations whether in open space or at a staging starbase.

The station games issues can only really be addressed by a close look at station games in the round.

Cosmo

Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin.
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2011.02.13 17:42:00 - [109]
 

So what you're saying op is that you are the big chubby bully slapping up on a pencil neck geek with his big brother standing there. He finally turns and runs away and you don't like it because you didn't get his lunch money before doing so and now you want to take his legs away. Rather than considering you won that fight even though you didn't get the km and be happy you're crying about a mechanic that is not an exploit.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.13 18:06:00 - [110]
 

If the GM's say it's legit, it's legit.
But in the sliding scale of ******ed, it ranks well past that of blobbing. You can have fun being blobbed, you can work around it, you can even turn it back around on them.

Station games are just lame.

Khalid DeCroix
Posted - 2011.02.13 23:40:00 - [111]
 

The point the OP and others should be making here regardless of this particular aspect being intended or an exploit is that it is a ******ed game mechanic that needs to be changed. It goes against the entire design of pvp with regards to aggro timers and the like. If it's not an exploit, it is most certainly a loophole, and it needs to be closed.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.02.14 06:12:00 - [112]
 

I agree that GM has indicated that carrier docking is working as intended, and thus is technically not an exploit. But it is most certainly crappy mechanics.

However, I don't agree with the GM's decision. The pilot who docks his ship in the carrier, and then has the carrier pilot dock in station, is intentionally circumventing intended game mechanics (aggression countdown) to gain an advantage.

Wait, isn't the definition of an exploit circumventing intended mechanics to gain an advantage? Things that make you go "hmm"...


Sevena Black
Posted - 2011.02.16 11:05:00 - [113]
 

I agree that safe docking in high-sec is a bit weird and cowardly. On the other hand, not being able to switch ships in the middle of a fight is worse. Simply copying the agression timer seems a decent solution. The carrier/Orca isn't invulnerable and the original mechanic still works. The inability to interface with an agression timer isn't a real option imho.

Demonicly Posessed
Posted - 2011.02.16 17:09:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Demonicly Posessed on 16/02/2011 17:14:13
Well so if i find ship (at station or gate or wahtever) in space and this ship has reacently been aggroed (pilot ejected from ship) by someone if i scoop it up i also get agro? Is that what you want? Why i ask is as soon as u make ship docking swich aggro he simply ejects and carrier scoops the ship, simple as that. Also no one can get into the ship as you cant enter locked ships.


What conserns locked ships or scrammed ships not be able to dock is insanely mad. I just go to Jita 4-4 with bassilisk and start locking ships to keep them from docking.


What i want to say is agression is thowards the pod and he did escape it has nothing to do with ship he ejected from or in that case he just stuffed it away to the carrier.

If u want reasoning here it is. Stations are operated by corporations and they dont want to let in ships with lazzors still glowing, to avoid, whoops lazzors still shooting moment, thus aggro timers Yet the carrier pilot takes the risk by scooping it. Yet he has done nothing too the station and hes ships hull is cold as space so he can dock up

Relain Linday
Amarr
Disposable Warriors
STR8NGE BREW
Posted - 2011.02.23 16:50:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Relain Linday on 23/02/2011 16:50:23
Still no response to my Bug Report which was filed on the 8th February, well it wasn't filtered so I'm assuming it was just ignored.

Sad really, this is an obvious loop around aggression mechanics.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.02.25 12:03:00 - [116]
 

The OP does not seem to get MMOs mechanics.

Since the dawn of time, there is no "right" or "exploit" until you convince everyone and their dog to do it 24/7. Only then, the slowpoke devs wake up and decide it's an exploit. Until then, it's working as intended.

Every company I know work on a passive incident based priority. Until you bump their priority to bother about you, you WILL be ignored.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.02.25 12:13:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Relain Linday
Edited by: Relain Linday on 23/02/2011 16:50:23
Still no response to my Bug Report which was filed on the 8th February, well it wasn't filtered so I'm assuming it was just ignored.

Sad really, this is an obvious loop around aggression mechanics.



It is not a bug nor a loophole. So you are rightly ignored.

It makes the gaming table richer, not poorer, hence it is a feature.


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