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Kim Jong Lau
Gallente
Hysteria Nexus
Posted - 2011.02.08 01:23:00 - [1]
 

When CCP stated they may remove jump bridges from 0.0 to encourage PvP and activity, you would expect people to be happy, but you cant please everyone.

With simple changes such as jump bridge removal or supercap changes, high ranking dictators of a certain coalition have made it their ambition now to control all seats in the CSM.

Now normally I would post this in CAOD, but considering how CSM elections affect everyone and the plan is to "punish non sov holding alliance, including lowsec pirates and empire" I figured I would post it here.

All this because jump bridges might get removed Laughing

"In this election, there will be no 'democracy'."

Mister Onyc
Posted - 2011.02.08 01:28:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Mister Onyc on 08/02/2011 01:39:35
Edit: Ok, so i see EVElopedia is not up to date. Ignore this!

Where would one get the new CSM rules or whatever they are called? Can't find a neat up-to-date .pdf anywhere.


While we're at it.. Why is Vuk Lau on his third term right now? To quote Evelopedia here http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM#Term_Length_and_Duration_of_the_CSM

Quote:
Each player council of Representatives and Alternates lasts for six months, beginning one week after the declaration of election winners. Campaigning and open voting for the next Council will begin four weeks prior to the expiration of the current CSMís term. Election winners will be determined before the sitting Councilís term expires. No Representative or Alternate can serve more than two terms on the CSM, consecutive or otherwise. An Alternate has been considered serving a term the instant he or she attends a Council meeting in the absence of a Representative; an Alternate can be elected more than two times if that Alternate does not participates in any Council meetings.


Bolded the important part.
Now while browsing through the lists of the last representatives there i noticed Vuk Lau was in the second, third, and now the fith CSM.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Members_of_the_second_CSM
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Members_of_the_third_CSM
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Members_of_the_fifth_CSM

iP0D
Posted - 2011.02.08 01:32:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: iP0D on 08/02/2011 01:33:51
Jump bridges won't get removed. They are population enablers, flat out removing them is not good for the effective niche. Once CCP realises that, and I am pretty sure they already have in their discussions with the CSM 5, they will look at factors and variables related to what is commonly referred to as "f*ck jumpbridges omg wtf do not touch".

It's a topic of projection of force. And that is pretty much the scope of it. Nothing more.

As for "control" over the CSM. Heh. There is no social engineering CCP as long as there is transparancy at CCP and from the CSM towards players. When transparancy is absent, you see special interests.

CCP does what it wants either way. No matter how cool a CSM member can be with them, or how "brosefs" or "awesome". The only way to influence CCP's decisions through providing them with well argumented, metrics founded and properly communicated actions with accountability, is to really treat it as a job. In that way CSM is no different from playing EVE, some would say :P

So yes, there will be two goon candidates, one or two candidates from Morsus Mihi, there will be one or two candidates from russian backgrounds, so what. Either way, this is really a topic for Jit Park, and not something to throw around elsewhere, as it is a CSM topic.


Originally by: Mister Onyc
While we're at it.. Why is Vuk Lau on his third term right now? To quote Evelopedia here


Evelopedia is not up to date, often.

CCP changed the term length, and removed the term limit, for CSM 5 and onwards.


Ben Alman
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.08 01:33:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Mister Onyc
Edited by: Mister Onyc on 08/02/2011 01:29:29
While we're at it.. Why is Vuk Lau on his third term right now?


Perhaps only consecutive counts.

Or he sold his char to his brother or something and it isn't the same person anymore officially ;)

AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar
Atomic Geese
Posted - 2011.02.08 02:13:00 - [5]
 

No, when people apply they have to also provide personal info such as their name. I'm sure CCP would let their userbase know that the character running for election that had a previous post isn't the same person anymore, for the sake of those that voted for the other person previously.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.02.08 02:29:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 08/02/2011 02:29:59
If the CSM actually mattered, I might be concerned.

Still, having said that, most of the leadership of the NC are whiny, self-entitled egotists, and the south are no better. Player-owned nullsec has just turned people into elitist ****ers who think that "their way" is better than everyone else's, and anyone wanting to do anything else is a "pubbie" or "carebear" or whatever derogatory term is flavour of the month now.

Mittens can do whatever the hell he likes (kinda of the point I'm trying to make here TBH), but if you start forcing your gameplay onto others then you're straying into the bounds of "delusions of grandeur", and it might be time to step back and think about what you're doing for a while.

Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.08 02:30:00 - [7]
 

incursions nerfed jump bridges.

Plus most 0.0 alliance leaders are hated by the majority non 0.0 eve.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.08 02:40:00 - [8]
 

CCP already know the jump bridges are bad for pvp.

It doesn't matter what CSM think

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.08 03:49:00 - [9]
 

WTS my vote.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.02.08 04:42:00 - [10]
 

Players as a whole never have the welfare of the entire game in mind, which is why the CSM can only ever be advisory.

Meridith Akesia
Stimulus
Posted - 2011.02.08 05:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
If the CSM actually mattered, I might be concerned.

This tbh

Mira Robinson
The Scope
Posted - 2011.02.08 05:49:00 - [12]
 

The issues that are brought to CSM and actually supported are not law.

CCP will notice this, and nothing dramatic would actually happen if one party controlled all of the council.

This is an ego-maniac's fantasy. Nothing more.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.02.08 06:36:00 - [13]
 

CSM is currently only used as a think-tank to prioritise a shortlist of minor updates designed to placate angry subscribers while CCP work on other games.

It will be many years before CCP look to the CSM for actual game ideas or fix any of the issues the CSM has been bumping for years now.

Cygnus Zhada
Viziam
Posted - 2011.02.08 07:14:00 - [14]
 

They gotta secure their RMT income somehow, you know.

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.08 09:35:00 - [15]
 

Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.


Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.08 16:36:00 - [16]
 

Hahahahaha props for beating me in making that char. I am ****ing lazy lately.

Rick Rocks'Hard
Posted - 2011.02.09 05:20:00 - [17]
 

I vote for term limits and CCP can either back someone it likes and agrees with, or immediately disqualify them.

This is CCP's game, they do and have done a damn good job at what they do. Term limits though, allow the game to grow and continue to engage new players. No one wants the same old chronies calling the shots, I thought that was the point of electing CSM's

Random Number Generator
Posted - 2011.02.09 11:21:00 - [18]
 

Sovereignty needs a complete overhaul, an overhaul that includes changes to POS, Outposts, System Upgrades and finally sovereignty itself. Otherwise it'll always be about massing 1 overpowered ship type.

I don't see CCP doing any real work towards 0.0, so we'll end up with more and more (s)capitals. Even if they nerf it, as the time goes by capital numbers will only increase.

Even if you "secure" all the seats, it won't ever matter, because both CCP and CSM won't have the balls to fix that is beyond broken. The jacket we're wearing is a jacket no more, its a carnival of patches made to patch the patches.

Be happy if they nerf SC within 2 years.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.02.09 17:08:00 - [19]
 

Disallow all people mentioned in those communications for planning to rig the election, however inconsequential it may be, and by coercion no less.
Originally by: Ai Mei
incursions nerfed jump bridges.

Huh? Are Incursions everywhere now? Does an Incursion prevent a by-pass from from being thrown up temporarily?
Originally by: Ai Mei
Plus most 0.0 alliance leaders are hated by the majority non 0.0 eve.

You can be fairly sure that most 0.0 people hate the leaders too, but they suck it up and muddle along like with real world politicians Smile

Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Posted - 2011.02.09 18:58:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Rick Rocks'Hard
[...]
This is CCP's game, they do and have done a damn good job at what they do.



WTH? Shocked You must be new to this game...

Quote:

No one wants the same old chronies calling the shots, I thought that was the point of electing CSM's


And what makes you think the majority of older/veteran players cares a whit about CSM? Cool


Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

Originally by: Ai Mei
Plus most 0.0 alliance leaders are hated by the majority non 0.0 eve.

You can be fairly sure that most 0.0 people hate the leaders too, but they suck it up and muddle along like with real world politicians Smile


You are being soooo wrong, m8. We love our high&mighty leader in so many ways that Romeo&Juliet looks like a cheap B-movie in comparison. Twisted Evil

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.02.09 22:31:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dlardrageth
Originally by: Rick Rocks'Hard
[...]
This is CCP's game, they do and have done a damn good job at what they do.



WTH? Shocked You must be new to this game...

Quote:

No one wants the same old chronies calling the shots, I thought that was the point of electing CSM's


And what makes you think the majority of older/veteran players cares a whit about CSM? Cool


Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

Originally by: Ai Mei
Plus most 0.0 alliance leaders are hated by the majority non 0.0 eve.

You can be fairly sure that most 0.0 people hate the leaders too, but they suck it up and muddle along like with real world politicians Smile


You are being soooo wrong, m8. We love our high&mighty leader in so many ways that Romeo&Juliet looks like a cheap B-movie in comparison. Twisted Evil


This is quite possibly the worst post I have read today. Congratulations, Sir.

Kim Jong Lau
Gallente
Hysteria Nexus
Posted - 2011.02.10 16:34:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Kim Jong Lau on 10/02/2011 16:34:06
Originally by: Vuk Lau
Hahahahaha props for beating me in making that char. I am ****ing lazy lately.


Oh hi Vuk, surprised to see you on here, how you doing, still playing once every two weeks I see :( you gotta tell me how your coalition is still alive when major players like you and Fred0 are inactive.

Whats your secret? Embarassed

Xel Set
Posted - 2011.02.10 18:00:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Xel Set on 10/02/2011 18:40:21
Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Originally by: Dlardrageth
Originally by: Rick Rocks'Hard
[...]
This is CCP's game, they do and have done a damn good job at what they do.



WTH? Shocked You must be new to this game...

Quote:

No one wants the same old chronies calling the shots, I thought that was the point of electing CSM's


And what makes you think the majority of older/veteran players cares a whit about CSM? Cool


Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

Originally by: Ai Mei
Plus most 0.0 alliance leaders are hated by the majority non 0.0 eve.

You can be fairly sure that most 0.0 people hate the leaders too, but they suck it up and muddle along like with real world politicians Smile


You are being soooo wrong, m8. We love our high&mighty leader in so many ways that Romeo&Juliet looks like a cheap B-movie in comparison. Twisted Evil


This is quite possibly the worst post I have read today. Congratulations, Sir.


Actually, _your_ awful post is the worst one in the thread thus far. You denigrate without identifying the aspects with which you take issue. So, good job failposting about failposts. Next time consider pointing at yourself, because your exhibited ability to both reason and communicate is an arrogant embarrassment, though, prototypically, you don't seem to realize it.

That being said, removing jumpbridges seems like an overreaction and a bad idea because doing so removes a facet of the game with the capacity to be used in a variety of interesting, strategic ways. If there is a nerf solution to more variety in pvp, entirely removing jumpbridges may be said to go too far.

Goons and nullsec dwellers with a similar CSM agenda represent not only a substantial part of the player base, but a portion of the player base that may be said to be very actively engaged in the full measure of the game. They have every right and reason to take as much of the CSM as they can, and they will represent a large body of reasonably like-minded constituents beyond their own membership if they do. There's nothing sinister about it. If you fail to persuade enough votes against them, a reasonable majority will have spoken.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky
54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry
Posted - 2011.02.11 09:35:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Disallow all people mentioned in those communications for planning to rig the election, however inconsequential it may be, and by coercion no less.


You do understand the difference between lobbying for votes and rigging an election, right? No one's attempting to tamper with the actual voting process here.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.02.12 09:21:00 - [25]
 

This thread is lols.

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.12 13:56:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Kim Jong Lau
Edited by: Kim Jong Lau on 10/02/2011 16:34:06
Originally by: Vuk Lau
Hahahahaha props for beating me in making that char. I am ****ing lazy lately.


Oh hi Vuk, surprised to see you on here, how you doing, still playing once every two weeks I see :( you gotta tell me how your coalition is still alive when major players like you and Fred0 are inactive.

Whats your secret? Embarassed


Yeah I am extremely inactive. On this char only (and I have like...20+ I am playing on):

Originally by: Vuk Lau
paid Until - 23-06-2011

create Date - 13-09-2004

logon Count - 9595

time spend EvE - 488d 21h 21m


I would poorly rate your troll, but sadly its a not troll, you are just plain dumb.

Serious Internet Politician
www.seriousinternetpolitician.com
Posted - 2011.02.12 16:59:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Disallow all people mentioned in those communications for planning to rig the election, however inconsequential it may be, and by coercion no less.


You do understand the difference between lobbying for votes and rigging an election, right? No one's attempting to tamper with the actual voting process here.


I read tamper as somethign else and was slightly startled that you knew about my cunning plan.


Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy
yours,
serious




Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.02.13 04:05:00 - [28]
 

Oh man, that collection of people totally want to get elected so they can advocate policies they favor.

How nefarious!!!

Boris Petroshevski
Posted - 2011.02.20 03:28:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Boris Petroshevski on 20/02/2011 03:28:57
oh noes someone might call on all the people allied with him to help get him elected so his portion of the game doesnt become worse? This sounds absolutely scandalous. Seriously even if you had all 0.0 or even all NC members its not like they would ask CCP to make 0.0 suck more... sure they might not put much effort into hisec but the extreme worry they might.. idk cheat or something is dumb especially with the fact that CSM does more towards informing us than actually making a large impact on eve.

Idk I love my dictators/overlords in 0.0.... I find most people that dont like them simply dont like working in a team to accomplish team goals as opposed to working towards their own personal agenda. In 0.0 we are blobbers not 2 man get as many kills as you can pirates. Of course if your 0.0 alliance leaders are stealing your isk you might be mad as well but few of the big power alliances do that, its mostly the fail pets.

Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.02.20 23:11:00 - [30]
 

One Ex Dev to rule them all. Vote Seleene!


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