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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.16 01:24:00 - [121]
 

We have a new record!

Roguehalo donation has been recorded as of now and is the biggest ever!

As a little sign of gratitude I added a new section in the Donors List: the Hall of Honor and Fame, where the pivotal Donors, those who made the Charity grow to the next level will be recorded for the others to see.

This is not just a "most donated" list, though. I.e. Far Ranger [FARR] corporation is the first Donor who gave a substantial donation, who believed in a just started project and thus is going to be included forever.

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2011.03.16 13:09:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 16/03/2011 14:00:28
That's an awesome donation Roguehalo.

Edit: FB, I answered your post.

Roguehalo
Caldari
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
Posted - 2011.03.17 15:40:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 16/03/2011 14:00:28
That's an awesome donation Roguehalo.


Thanks Liberty Smile

I have read some posts in other threads where the 'need' to donate to a country as 'rich' as Japan is questioned. As far as I'm aware the money will go to The International Red Cross rather than Japan, which organisation(along with the Red Crescent), has mounted humanitarion relief efforts in many parts of the world for very many years.

If I was sitting in a very cold unheated Sports Hall with no power and food and water running out, just having had EVERYTHING I own completely destroyed, I would be quite pleased to see a Red Cross convoy of trucks pull up outside filled with relief supplies.

I'm rather surprised and slightly saddened that there hasn't been more response to this. This is a great opportunity to turn pretend money into hard cash to help people who are going through an awful tragedy

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2011.03.17 16:10:00 - [124]
 

It's getting worse and worse over there, the Japanese government is not capable of solving all those problems. They have weak leadership and the government is not being entirely transparent about the nuclear reactors. It's a demonstration - if any were needed - that a wealthy government is not a solution for all problems and that private initiative is always needed in addition.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.03.17 16:20:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Liberty Eternal
They have weak leadership and the government is not being entirely transparent about the nuclear reactors. It's a demonstration - if any were needed - that a wealthy government is not a solution for all problems and that private initiative is always needed in addition.


Yeah, they will always be needed because private initiatives are always entirely transparent and honest, and never have hidden motives at all. Rolling Eyes

It has nothing to do with "weak leadership" or "being entirely transparent" and everything with the huge scale of the disaster and the lack of proper information coming from disaster zones, even to (as opposed to from) governments.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.17 17:22:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Roguehalo

I'm rather surprised and slightly saddened that there hasn't been more response to this. This is a great opportunity to turn pretend money into hard cash to help people who are going through an awful tragedy



Well today I found out a guy sent in 200M. Like others he sent it to the wrong character (should send to VAHFT corp actually) so I did not notice it at first.
His donation was at page 3 of my journal, I SO MUCH hope people send money where they should:

Vahrokh Financial Technologies [VAHFT]

Not to me. Not everywhere else. I am not even in VAHFT.

I repeat it again: whoever sends donations to the wrong place seriously risks to see them lost!

Julian Koll
The Kollektive
Posted - 2011.03.17 17:42:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Roguehalo


I'm rather surprised and slightly saddened that there hasn't been more response to this. This is a great opportunity to turn pretend money into hard cash to help people who are going through an awful tragedy


Well, just because people don't donate via VHATEVER does not mean they don't donate. Technically, as soon as you can afford to donate by PLEX, it does not make sense anymore to use VV's service, since you can send them to ccp directly.

And for the small time investors, MD might be the wrong place and this threadnaught might be a bit confusing (heck, i had to read it three times to get all of it)

On the german boards i am currently running the same thing (as i did already with haiti and pakistan), and so far 31 people have donated amounts from as low as 1m isk. My announcement post counts 155 words and 900-something characters Cool

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.17 18:27:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Julian Koll

On the german boards i am currently running the same thing (as i did already with haiti and pakistan), and so far 31 people have donated amounts from as low as 1m isk. My announcement post counts 155 words and 900-something characters Cool


In a closely knit group it's easier to informally deal with people. I tried very hard, (maybe too much) to create a very robust framework that would be read by MDers, RPers, GDers and would hold without breaking. I am not good at public relations so I try to expose whatever contents before people even asks to.

On an unrelated matter, there's a supremely insane donation ready to be registered. Stay tuned! Razz

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.17 19:42:00 - [129]
 

New humongous record!!!!!


Today we received 3 more donations.

One in particular has something of impossible.

Amarr Citizen 155 donated 72 PLEXes!!!


You read it right. 72. Seventytwo. For an equivalent of about 26.57B!


These last days make me feel the 2 months I spent preparing the operation were really, really worth it.

There are heart and charity. In my and your EvE!

RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.17 19:55:00 - [130]
 

Nice one AC! Over a thousand dollars for the Red Cross in one donation.

VV - What's the running total so far?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.17 19:56:00 - [131]
 

This just does not know end. Magnu Stormhawk just donated 1B!

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.03.17 19:57:00 - [132]
 

I hope he is not getting them to you by Kestrel ;/

Good going AC

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.17 20:25:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 17/03/2011 20:26:18
Originally by: RAW23
Nice one AC! Over a thousand dollars for the Red Cross in one donation.

VV - What's the running total so far?


Totals held by VAERT:

13,166,242,332.15 ISK
88 PLEXES

Grand equivalent total:

45,716,544,731,27 ISK => 45.7B


Total Vahrokh Group exposition (VERY rough eyeball estimates):

Collaterals: 3B
Research: 6B

Grand total Vahrokh Group exposition:

About 54,7B

Good night, it has been a long but fantastic day for me.

Kei Darker
Posted - 2011.03.17 20:46:00 - [134]
 

VV, don't take this the wrong way, I am just curious... how much of those funds do you directly have access to? i.e. Hypothetically, how much could you withdraw into your personal account?

Earlier, before this business in Japan started, you mentioned the importance of security and pointed to yourself as a possible point of failure. I don't suspect you would scam here, but if you have the ability to take ~60B in ISK and PLEX, I can't help but point out what an insidious and infamous scam it would become. Especially if that number ended up over 100B. Scamming from donations intended for a real life charity isn't legal in the real world (obviously), but through eve, you could do it. Not to encourage this sort of behaviour... but you'd be kind of infamous. It would definitely make the eve news and probably make news like CNN.

So back to the original question... how much of those funds do you have direct access to again?

Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:00:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
New humongous record!!!!!


Today we received 3 more donations.

One in particular has something of impossible.

Amarr Citizen 155 donated 72 PLEXes!!!


You read it right. 72. Seventytwo. For an equivalent of about 26.57B!


These last days make me feel the 2 months I spent preparing the operation were really, really worth it.

There are heart and charity. In my and your EvE!


Slight correction, this donation was made on behalf of myself, Ray, and about 1,300 caring eve players.

Roguehalo
Caldari
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:10:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker
VV, don't take this the wrong way, I am just curious... how much of those funds do you directly have access to? i.e. Hypothetically, how much could you withdraw into your personal account?

Earlier, before this business in Japan started, you mentioned the importance of security and pointed to yourself as a possible point of failure. I don't suspect you would scam here, but if you have the ability to take ~60B in ISK and PLEX, I can't help but point out what an insidious and infamous scam it would become. Especially if that number ended up over 100B. Scamming from donations intended for a real life charity isn't legal in the real world (obviously), but through eve, you could do it. Not to encourage this sort of behaviour... but you'd be kind of infamous. It would definitely make the eve news and probably make news like CNN.

So back to the original question... how much of those funds do you have direct access to again?


Scam would mean instaban and the funds would be sent to The Red Cross regardless. There are limits to Eves' 'anything goes' morality

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:11:00 - [137]
 




Just curious, why send the Plex to VV instead of ccp? I can understand sending less than a Plex in ISK, but if you are donating a Plex, you might as well send them directly to ccp.





RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:15:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx



Just curious, why send the Plex to VV instead of ccp? I can understand sending less than a Plex in ISK, but if you are donating a Plex, you might as well send them directly to ccp.







VV provides a nice vehicle for building up momentum and challenging the community to act.

Roguehalo
Caldari
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:16:00 - [139]
 

It all helps to drum up a bit of publicity and possibly drag in more donations. Ok I know there are trillionaires out there........who's gonna beat 27b?

RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:33:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

Slight correction, this donation was made on behalf of myself, Ray, and about 1,300 caring eve players.


Please let this be a joke ugh

Kei Darker
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:44:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Roguehalo


Scam would mean instaban and the funds would be sent to The Red Cross regardless. There are limits to Eves' 'anything goes' morality


I don't think this is true...

Julian Koll
The Kollektive
Posted - 2011.03.17 21:44:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

Slight correction, this donation was made on behalf of myself, Ray, and about 1,300 caring eve players.


Please let this be a joke ugh


Guess they should have validated their accounts...

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.03.17 22:28:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Tutskii on 17/03/2011 22:29:20
Originally by: Kei Darker
Originally by: Roguehalo


Scam would mean instaban and the funds would be sent to The Red Cross regardless. There are limits to Eves' 'anything goes' morality


I don't think this is true...


"If someone uses this initiative to scam you, then please report it immediately through a petition ingame. Our game masters will permanently ban anyone who uses this initiative for helping the victims of the disaster to scam other players. Not only is this unethical behavior, it also potentially reduces the amount of money our players are able to send to donate, which is unacceptable."

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PLEX_for_GOOD

Doesn't get any safer than that.

Edit:
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155


Slight correction, this donation was made on behalf of myself, Ray, and about 1,300 caring eve players.


This brought a big smile to my face, its good to know that Eve has such a caring player base.

Kei Darker
Posted - 2011.03.18 02:49:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Tutskii
Edited by: Tutskii on 17/03/2011 22:29:20
Originally by: Kei Darker
Originally by: Roguehalo


Scam would mean instaban and the funds would be sent to The Red Cross regardless. There are limits to Eves' 'anything goes' morality


I don't think this is true...


"If someone uses this initiative to scam you, then please report it immediately through a petition ingame. Our game masters will permanently ban anyone who uses this initiative for helping the victims of the disaster to scam other players. Not only is this unethical behavior, it also potentially reduces the amount of money our players are able to send to donate, which is unacceptable."

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PLEX_for_GOOD

Doesn't get any safer than that.




On the one hand, I think this policy is garbage from CCP's standpoint. They have a huge vested interest in reducing the number of PLEX that are actually used, and PLEX for Good is an enourmous ISK sink. CCP has no business making rules that say a program like VV's here can not end up being a scam. It's one thing to say a player can't pretend to actually be CCP gathering PLEX for Good. But quite another to say you can't scam other players with an initiative. The excuse that it unethical behaviour is garbage as well. If CCP wants to hold tight to their assertion that ISK is an in-game only asset and has no real world value... they can't make policies like this one.

Then again, the news that a program like this is against the rules to scam is actually great news. Here's why: since this is a special case where scamming isn't possible because it's a bannable offense, there's no real reason to have Chribba or Grendell involved as third parties anymore. There's no reason to make the fund secure at all, really. Amiright? VV can now hold all of the PLEX and ISK, audit himself, do all of his own reporting, and just post in the forums the total PLEX donated. There's no way possible that he could profit from it! So that's all good...

Lando Antilles
Posted - 2011.03.18 03:32:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker
(CCP) have a huge vested interest in reducing the number of PLEX that are actually used

I think you underestimate the benefits of tax write-offs and publicity. If I were CCP, I'd want the max possible donated.

Kei Darker
Posted - 2011.03.18 03:40:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Lando Antilles
Originally by: Kei Darker
(CCP) have a huge vested interest in reducing the number of PLEX that are actually used

I think you underestimate the benefits of tax write-offs and publicity. If I were CCP, I'd want the max possible donated.


I guess I worded that a little differently than what I meant. By "used", I meant redeemed for game-time. CCP would want the max possible donated; it would give them a nice tax write-off, sink a bunch of ISK, and players would still have to eventually pay for their game time. Hah... in a way they are aggregating tax write-offs from the players - who can not claim a PLEX donation on their taxes.

Lando Antilles
Posted - 2011.03.18 04:02:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker
they are aggregating tax write-offs from the players - who can not claim a PLEX donation on their taxes.

true.
But who actually itemizes in the US anyway?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.18 08:28:00 - [148]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 18/03/2011 08:31:21
Originally by: Kei Darker

VV, don't take this the wrong way, I am just curious... how much of those funds do you directly have access to? i.e. Hypothetically, how much could you withdraw into your personal account?



I have direct access to 100% of the above stated assets. Those in the hands of the other Sister funds or held by Chribba etc. are other assets not listed above.



Originally by: Kei Darker

On the one hand, I think this policy is garbage from CCP's standpoint. They have a huge vested interest in reducing the number of PLEX that are actually used, and PLEX for Good is an enourmous ISK sink. CCP has no business making rules that say a program like VV's here can not end up being a scam. It's one thing to say a player can't pretend to actually be CCP gathering PLEX for Good. But quite another to say you can't scam other players with an initiative. The excuse that it unethical behaviour is garbage as well. If CCP wants to hold tight to their assertion that ISK is an in-game only asset and has no real world value... they can't make policies like this one.

Then again, the news that a program like this is against the rules to scam is actually great news. Here's why: since this is a special case where scamming isn't possible because it's a bannable offense, there's no real reason to have Chribba or Grendell involved as third parties anymore. There's no reason to make the fund secure at all, really. Amiright? VV can now hold all of the PLEX and ISK, audit himself, do all of his own reporting, and just post in the forums the total PLEX donated. There's no way possible that he could profit from it! So that's all good...



Why I asked to Chribba and Grendell: to reduce the risk of something happening me that makes me unable to ever log in again.
This involves any cause: scamming, earthquakes, incidents... everything.
Splitting the risk among 3 persons would be the best route.

There's currently an heavy imbalance about this concept, donors are sending the greatest majority of stuff to me and when I asked them (see previous pages) if they preferred I'd split the assets and send them over to Chribba and Grendell, they said no.
Finally, if I wanted to scam all of this, I'd have. There are many ways to make CCP's investigations hard or even almost impossible and some ill intentioned mo-fos would even scam this just to become e-famous outside of EvE. Even if it costed 1 of their accounts (big deal, eh?).

So, in the end, it's just a matter of trust.

This can't even be "audited" or whatever (beyond checking the stated amounts).

What will make me honor this initiative:

1) I have been teached in a certain way. It might be an outdated way by today's "morals" of "I do this because I can" but I am quite comfortable with my teachings.
2) It'd be stupid to be just another and worse Bad Bobby. Being deceptive and evil is so plain and normal. Think different.
3) I want to prove people can be good in EvE. Being proved wrong is something that annoys me to no end.
4) I am not even mentioning the asinine amounts of time I spent setting up this whole thing. To see it all wasted for some "lol-I-am-so-smart-I-scammed-you" 5 minutes of fame? Forget it.
5) What gives me fun at playing EvE, my sandbox, is to create new ideas, see people use them, setup a game financial universe and yet introduce my other MMO's "ethics". It'd be quite stupid to give up on this. It's 80% of the reason for me to play EvE at all.


Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

Slight correction, this donation was made on behalf of myself, Ray, and about 1,300 caring eve players



I automatically give credit to the entity that sent me the donation unless otherwise indicated.
If you want me to change your name with EBANK or whoever else, please reply with the new name and I'll edit everything.


Kei Darker
Posted - 2011.03.18 11:48:00 - [149]
 

It's all good V. :)
I think you're on the right track with this whole thing, and the fact that you can't scam makes it even better. Even though I hate the whole concept of having real world consequences in a game. There's just so so many things wrong with that idea. At least it's for a good cause.
Keep drumming up support.
Also, I think you really should consider just running the fund 100% yourself. Just makes things easier to keep track of.
Best of luck.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.18 12:30:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker
It's all good V. :)
I think you're on the right track with this whole thing, and the fact that you can't scam makes it even better. Even though I hate the whole concept of having real world consequences in a game. There's just so so many things wrong with that idea. At least it's for a good cause.
Keep drumming up support.
Also, I think you really should consider just running the fund 100% yourself. Just makes things easier to keep track of.
Best of luck.



I could scam, believe me. I don't want to give people false sense of security (proof that I suck as scammer Razz).

About the "running the fund 100% yourself": the Sister Funds are the most sensible way to make a concerted effort. After the dust will settle, donations to this fund will reduce a lot and then they'll slowly become larger.
I pondered - a lot - about forming a Board of Directors. The Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws even support forming a BoD. But I am not going to make such BoD actual in game directors (I'd use them to take decisions), there is no way to enforce them to always participate to unlocks, votes and so on. After several months, when routine settles in and attention fades, one of them could pull a Bad Bobby.


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