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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.07 16:10:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 07/03/2011 16:21:00
Originally by: Krythas
Can we contract plex toward this ?


Yes, you are welcome.

The Articles of Incorporation allow for:

- Cash

- PLEXES contracts.

- Other materials or items are not supposed to be held as is and would be liquidated.

Please create 15 days expiration contracts to either (copy and paste):

Vahrokh’s Emergencies Relief Trust [VAERT]

or

Vahrokh Financial Technologies [VAHFT]


I'd be pleased if you could include a description, possibly this:

MRVAHFTFF016 P01=1


Notice how I am NOT sure that Chribba and Grendell will take those contracts (they take cash donations on behalf of VAERT) and they still REQUIRE a suitable description, otherwise the donations WILL be lost in their countless transactions.


-------------------------------------

Since we are going from an high appreciation period, in case I see PLEXES tanking I might liquidate them as well, so to avoid the depreciation. They can always be bought back in a second when they'd be needed.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.08 13:44:00 - [62]
 

I am a bit in a dilemma. Since ATM there's no "true BoD" I'd like to ask the MDers their opinion about this:

Should the corporation be allowed to liquidate PLEXES in case they are selling for above average price and thus achieve a larger NAV than leaving them sit unused during the summer, when they could lose several tens millions of value?

Please if you have an opinion post here ASAP, I am to amend the Articles of Incorporation for other reasons as well and I'd like to make it as few times as possible.

Thanks in advance

Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.08 13:54:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

Should the corporation be allowed to liquidate PLEXES in case they are selling for above average price and thus achieve a larger NAV than leaving them sit unused during the summer, when they could lose several tens millions of value?



Sounds like common sense to me. If you are after any opinions and not just those of current donors, +1 yes for this resolution.

Krythas
Posted - 2011.03.08 13:55:00 - [64]
 

As someone that has quite possibly donated the most plex I fully support whatever decision vv makes here.

I trust him easily as much as chribba here and really wish ccp would support this venture as well just for the bus scenario

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.03.08 13:58:00 - [65]
 

It's mission creep. Mission creep is bad.

If you could increase your NAV by (re-)selling PLEX, you might also consider other ways of increasing the NAV, such as production or research, or trading other things.

RAW23
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:03:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
It's mission creep. Mission creep is bad.

If you could increase your NAV by (re-)selling PLEX, you might also consider other ways of increasing the NAV, such as production or research, or trading other things.


I would tend to agree with this. PLEXs are themselves the final product of this charity and even if they lose isk value they won't lose rl value when they come to be donated.

Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:34:00 - [67]
 

This is a Marcus Baltar, the player, post. Not a Marcus Baltar, BSAC BoD, post. Razz
Originally by: Estel Arador
It's mission creep. Mission creep is bad.

If you could increase your NAV by (re-)selling PLEX, you might also consider other ways of increasing the NAV, such as production or research, or trading other things.

What they said. I thought the idea was that the fund would just hold ISK/PLEX/whatever until such time as CCP enabled a relief fund and then everything would be converted to PLEX and sent.

What I believe; A PLEX was donated. The person donating it thought that this was an appropriate donation. They could have more easily donated ISK (no changing of ISK to PLEX) if they were worried about changing PLEX/ISK (or perhaps they donated the PLEX because they were worried?) trade rates so I do not think that you should assume the worry/responsibility for the PLEX/ISK trading rates either. If your fund trades the PLEXs then you are assuming financial responsibility for any losses that this trading might incur, meaning that you would then have to be actively involved in (however minor) trading activities to cover any potential losses. That would include any differences in PLEX prices between the time between the fund start and when any transfer to CCP takes place.

On a side note - what happens to the ISK that is donated - I guess Grendell and Chribba would not be willing to trade with it? Trading donated PLEXs due to advantageous PLEX/ISK rates would also mean that you should trade with all donated ISK (or any other assets) to take advantage of advantageous ISK/whatever rates.

Just think; this was set up to enable PLEXs to be donated to relief efforts that CCP supports before they set a CCP character to send the PLEXs to. So, if the CCP character had existed beforehand then the PLEXs sent to it would not be able to be traded (or ISK either).

Krythas
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:34:00 - [68]
 

I should probably stop posting when drunk. :-)

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2011.03.08 14:48:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 08/03/2011 14:48:23
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha


Should the corporation be allowed to liquidate PLEXES in case they are selling for above average price and thus achieve a larger NAV than leaving them sit unused during the summer, when they could lose several tens millions of value?



I'd say no, the plex is already the final product and therefore not going to lose value when donated. The potential advantage from gaining a few million extra from a lowering of their price is offset by the potential inability to buy as many plexes later should the price rise. This would have to be offset by you guaranteeing the shortfall in isk, but if you are willing to do that then you might as well just trade with your own isk and donate some of the profit to this fund instead. As you already do this, and you will only earn a finite amount of isk from all your activities and only have a % of that that you are willing to donate, there is no sense in risking plex assets for little gain.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.03.08 15:08:00 - [70]
 

As usual Marcus Baltar is a bit more eloquent than I.

Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.08 15:17:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Marcus Baltar
Trading donated PLEXs due to advantageous PLEX/ISK rates would also mean that you should trade with all donated ISK (or any other assets) to take advantage of advantageous ISK/whatever rates.


Surely buying the plexes with the ISK in hand when they are cheap seems is the most appropriate way of handling the fund. Its not that much of a step further to re-sell and re-buy to improve the fund further

Originally by: Marcus Baltar

Just think; this was set up to enable PLEXs to be donated to relief efforts that CCP supports before they set a CCP character to send the PLEXs to. So, if the CCP character had existed beforehand then the PLEXs sent to it would not be able to be traded (or ISK either).


That doesn't preclude this fund from having the ability to grow in addition to the donation by trading them.

Fair points from everyone though. There is always the downside of potential losses on such activity. I just know that if/when i donate, it will be in isk rather than plex and i would be happy for the value of that isk to be used in the most efficient way.

MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror
Posted - 2011.03.08 15:33:00 - [72]
 

Already alluded to by Marcus Baltar(*), trading of PLEXes would depend upon the decisions of some person (presumably Vaerah Vahrokha) which introduces the risk of loss, which was not addressed in the original articles. I am of the opinion that any ISK or PLEXes donated were done so with the intent that the full value of the donation be applied towards charity, and that to use those donations in a commercial enterprise, even if it benefits the charity itself, is a violation of the trust of the donor. I appreciate that Vaerah Vahrokha's intent is to magnify the effect of the donor's charity, but I "vote" that speculation on the value of PLEXes not be permitted with the charity's assets.

MDD

(*) And possibly others; no slight intended if I've overlooked them.

Lando Antilles
Posted - 2011.03.08 15:57:00 - [73]
 

I agree that the original intent was a minimal risk (hit by bus Smile) charitable organization.

A simple solution would be to have
1- the Chribba and Grendel branches purely ISK/plex repositories, to be delivered upon tragedy
2- the VV branch could incorporate simple strategies for capital appreciation (PLEX buying/selling)

This way, those that want a pure minimal risk donation can send their ISK to Chribba and Grendel and those that want to magnify their donation have that option (VV)

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.08 20:50:00 - [74]
 

Since I am acting on behalf of VAERT, and knowing the following is purely RP fluff (which I truly LOVE, don't kill me):


Pursuant to VAERT Articles Of Incorporation, Article VII and VAERT Bylaws, Article III, Section 4 and subsequent, Article III, Section 10, paragraph (c) it has been delivered to appoint Vaerah Vahrokha as President of Vahrokh's Emergency Relief Trust.

This was announced earlier today both on VAERT official website, on Vahrokh.com blog and in "Chapter 8 - Disclosure of Main and involved alts" on this forum.
Here is the RP press release PDF.



Now onto the MDers sentiment about PLEXes:

Originally by: Krythas

I trust him easily as much as chribba here and really wish ccp would support this venture as well just for the bus scenario



A CCP Developer has expressed some appreciation about this project.

I still wish what you say was possible and would benefit a lot of players: designate who to automatically take all your stuff in case your sub stays expired for more than X.
I would really not care if CCP would auto-reclaim all I have, it's not like I'd care of keeping my e-stuff if I suddenly die.

Finally, Krythas, you have left me speechless for such an huge donation. Thank you!!!!! I will do all my best to honor this welcome responsibility.
Your donation will be updated on the Donors List as new record as soon as I am done with the backlog of deadline stuff I am finishing.



Originally by: Several MDers opinions

Yes but no



... and people tell that MD is so bad. I want to thank you all for your valuable opinions and suggestions!

I take that you prefer the way of assets functionality and security, therefore I'll withdraw the Articles Of Incorporation amendments.
I liquidated one PLEX during this month, it will be the last.

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2011.03.08 21:34:00 - [75]
 

The President is dead, long live the President QuestionExclamation :D

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

... and people tell that MD is so bad. I want to thank you all for your valuable opinions and suggestions!



MD: "We're not all muppets!" ;)

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.08 21:41:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 08/03/2011 21:41:11
Update:

- I received other donations, they will be added on the Donors List by tomorrow EvE midnight like for the above. ATM I am valiantly fighting with Excel till I manage to finish updating the statements.

- I got an idea and I'd like to get an opinion off the following people:

1) Donations Holders, that is Chribba and Grendell
2) Donors acting as sort of Class A "BoD" (see Articles of Incorporation for classes)
3) Other MDers acting as sort of Class B "BoD".

in the above order.

Topic of the idea is this: hedging risk in a more homogeneous way.

Basically, Chribba and Grendell agreed to act as Donations Holders. They are getting far, far less than the 33.3% each that I thought they'd get. On the contrary, I am getting sent a lot of value.

While all of this generosity is welcome, I don't want to forget how security is of paramount importance. I should not be a dangerous possible point of failure.

Therefore I'd ask your esteemed opinion about if you'd agree at me splitting and forwarding donations so that each of us three Donations Holders shares about 1/3 of the value and thus of the risk.

What do you think?

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.03.08 21:50:00 - [77]
 

I think that you either trust yourself or not. If you don't then you can send the money to Chribba yourself. If you do, and the people who sent it trust you too, then what's the problem with you holding it?

Sure, you may be hit by a bus but so may Chribba or Grendell. This is in the end, your initiative, and if people are trusting you with their money for charity, then I don't see how that can be bad.

Personally I think the idea is pretty neat.

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2011.03.08 21:53:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 08/03/2011 21:41:11
Update:

- I received other donations, they will be added on the Donors List by tomorrow EvE midnight like for the above. ATM I am valiantly fighting with Excel till I manage to finish updating the statements.

- I got an idea and I'd like to get an opinion off the following people:

1) Donations Holders, that is Chribba and Grendell
2) Donors acting as sort of Class A "BoD" (see Articles of Incorporation for classes)
3) Other MDers acting as sort of Class B "BoD".

in the above order.

Topic of the idea is this: hedging risk in a more homogeneous way.

Basically, Chribba and Grendell agreed to act as Donations Holders. They are getting far, far less than the 33.3% each that I thought they'd get. On the contrary, I am getting sent a lot of value.

While all of this generosity is welcome, I don't want to forget how security is of paramount importance. I should not be a dangerous possible point of failure.

Therefore I'd ask your esteemed opinion about if you'd agree at me splitting and forwarding donations so that each of us three Donations Holders shares about 1/3 of the value and thus of the risk.

What do you think?


As a third rate citizen ;) I'd say it's a good idea. It reduces the damage done by a catastrophic failure at your point (computer death, house blown away in a storm, hit by bus etc.) .. same can happen at their point, but part of the security reasoning was that only 1/3 is going to go should anything at all go. Once a month I guess, so I would suggest allocation of excess capital after completing your monthly reports?

Lando Antilles
Posted - 2011.03.08 21:59:00 - [79]
 

I approve.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.03.08 22:01:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
... and people tell that MD is so bad.


That was you saying that, remember?


As for the redistribution, who are you to second-guess where people send their donation? Don't over-engineer this. Shifting stuff only increases the paperwork and increases the risk of something being misplaced.

You could suffice with publishing what percentage is being held by Chribba, Grendell, and yourself. People who want their donation to depend on that information can donate to whoever has least; people who make a decision on some other criterion are still free to do so.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.08 22:20:00 - [81]
 

Mark my words, RMTing in the making, somewhere along the line


Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.08 22:53:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Tutskii

I think that you either trust yourself or not



I do trust myself. This is going to be a long term operation though and RL incidents happen. Hence the hedging idea.


Originally by: Estel Arador

That was you saying that, remember?



Hmm, I did not think to convey such idea there. It was a memento not to chastise new investments beyond reasonable (which is fairly different than saying MDers are bad) and a talk against "the trolls and similar unconstructive mankind". Once again this is not "all MD" but the unconstructive individuals. Actually MD without these would be better.


Originally by: Estel Arador

Don't over-engineer this.



Point taken.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.03.08 23:13:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
a talk against "the trolls and similar unconstructive mankind". Once again this is not "all MD" but the unconstructive individuals. Actually MD without these would be better.


Well one of those "similar unconstructive mankind" has just made a comment which was seconded and thirded by a couple of the most respected MD members. There just might be a few shades of grey here instead of just black and white...

(Though to be entirely honest, I was tempted to end my fairly constructive comment with a suggestion to start a titan BPC business from the donations - I've heard it can give good returns. Wink)

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.09 23:00:00 - [84]
 

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
A Vahrokh Group Subsidiary


PRESS RELEASE



March 09, YC 113



Vahrokh's Emergency Relief Trust achieves 2.5 billions aggregated worth


Forewords

The February YC 113 financial statements are now available at this address.

Their format has been revised and improved. Sister Funds have been updated and reorganized as well. Donations Holder Chribba has been included as Sister Fund, code OEOTHERCF019.

Some minor inaccuracies due to miscommunications with Sister Fund Managers have been rectified. This is an ongoing process and feedback is welcome.


President's statement

We are at the second month since this Charity Corporation has been launched. It has been rough at the beginning but now it's nicely taking off.
This is a breakthrough achievement. In a galaxy where ruthless dominion and lawless space are defining foundations for entire empires, a lone independent organization is completely devoted at supporting the unfortunate and the homeless (OOC: in real life!).

But this is not the achievement of one or even few people, with some financial and technology background.

This is YOUR achievement, You who dared to challenge the immutable and ruthless rules of New Eden and generously donated PLEXes or ISK.

(OOC:) I feel this is extraordinary. One day I or you could meet someone who has been saved because some players, some day, in one the most harsh games in existence, have been moved to a charitable feeling.

I wish to wholeheartedly thank all those who helped and contributed in whatever way to make this initiative succeed.
This gives us the drive to stand and go ahead for the next months and years, even when the news of VAERT will become old and it will become "routine".


Sincere thanks,
Vaerah Vahrokha, President

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:10:00 - [85]
 

Update:

As stated yesterday I updated the Donors List to current.

We have a new RECORD and a big one!

Krythas sent in a massive 12 PLEXes!


As of now this equals to 348,599,989,98 x 12 = 4,183,199,879.76 = about 4.2B!


I'll make a tangible example of how much the donations accrued up to today could do (I hope to not do wrong math, I am hugely tired ugh).

Source: Haitian Roots

It costs $250 a year to have an Haitian child attend to school.
The cost of life of an average Haitian guy is $100 a year.


The accrued amount of the Charity Fund as of today is about 7.1B. Assuming a PLEX rule of thumb worth average of 300M, this means about 23-24 PLEXes. At SC they sell GTCs for $34.99, this means that we have got about $400.

This means we could feed a child for one year AND send him to school for that year.

Isn't this... freaking huge for an Internet Spaceships Game?

Misty McGinnity
Mystify Trading Company
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:13:00 - [86]
 

stellar performance V.

will the fund be getting a 3rd party fact checking? to ensure no laundering of any kind won't happen.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:22:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Misty McGinnity

will the fund be getting a 3rd party fact checking? to ensure no laundering of any kind won't happen.



Oh good ****ing god!

While it is acceptable to question such things, if you don't trust VV, send it to Chribba.

I'm pretty sure even CCP would frown upon such things as scamming from this. While this does not guarantee it is legit, using something such as this as a front for scamming would be highly deplorable.


Misty McGinnity
Mystify Trading Company
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:29:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Misty McGinnity

will the fund be getting a 3rd party fact checking? to ensure no laundering of any kind won't happen.



Oh good ****ing god!

While it is acceptable to question such things, if you don't trust VV, send it to Chribba.

I'm pretty sure even CCP would frown upon such things as scamming from this. While this does not guarantee it is legit, using something such as this as a front for scamming would be highly deplorable.




i just find it a little un-usual that people are doing a charity drive, when CCP doesn't have one going & hasn't posted here confirming that they will do anything similar to the haiti one ever again.

If there was a charity drive going on right now i wouldn't be here, but there isn't & there has been several natural disasters around the world since, Australia floods, new zealand earthquake etc.

Still no mention of a charity drive from CCP.

If CCP posted here that they were doing regular charity drives, then sure make a fund. but a one off (from memory) charity to haiti doesn't requires a player funded, unchecked, 3rd party secured, fund Shocked

Link me to prove me wrong, otherwise go away.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:36:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 10/03/2011 00:42:05
I just read the EvElopedia entry about Red Crescent donations for Pakistan and CCP stance about scamming at such initiative.

While they "just" talk about people contract scam I am fairly sure the following would apply in more general cases:

Quote:

Our game masters will permanently ban anyone who uses this initiative for helping the victims of the disaster in Pakistan to scam other players.



Said that, this is not something like an MD investment where to show records, skill sets, assets, profitability or whatever.

Here either you trust or you don't. If I find out a way to delete in game mails (choking full of clients full API keys, strategies, assets locations...) in a way that API won't fetch them anyway, then I am also fine to be API checked by a trusted volounteering auditor. If I don't, I'll have to wait till CCP releases the new API where I can turn emails off.



Edit: I prepared a LOT before starting this initiative and so at the beginning of the initiative I petitioned a GM, whether CCP would start new emergency campaings or not (just to be safe). He basically said: yes. Since posting GM petitions is against the forum TOS, those who want a copy or a screenshot of such petition please eve-mail me with their main.

Phoebe Halliwel
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:44:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Breaker77

I'm pretty sure even CCP would frown upon such things as scamming from this. While this does not guarantee it is legit, using something such as this as a front for scamming would be highly deplorable.


from the devblog and evewiki faq for the last plex for good initiatives

Quote:
CCP regards any scamming attempts surrounding this effort to be morally reprehensible and they will be met with swiftest action.


Quote:
If someone uses this initiative to scam you, then please report it immediately through a petition ingame. Our game masters will permanently ban anyone who uses this initiative for helping the victims of the disaster in Pakistan to scam other players. Not only is this unethical behavior, it also potentially reduces the amount of money our players are able to send to donate, which is unacceptable.


Originally by: Misty McGinnity

i just find it a little un-usual that people are doing a charity drive, when CCP doesn't have one going & hasn't posted here confirming that they will do anything similar to the haiti one ever again.

If there was a charity drive going on right now i wouldn't be here, but there isn't & there has been several natural disasters around the world since, Australia floods, new zealand earthquake etc.

Still no mention of a charity drive from CCP.

If CCP posted here that they were doing regular charity drives, then sure make a fund. but a one off (from memory) charity to haiti doesn't requires a player funded, unchecked, 3rd party secured, fund Shocked

Link me to prove me wrong, otherwise go away.


The most recent appeal was for Pakistan in September 2010, not sure on the Haiti appeal date but that was a separate one, so it's not a one off from CCP
Plex for good: Pakistan
PLEX for GOOD FAQ


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