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CCP Adida


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:02:00 - [1]
 

CCP Veritas talks about upcoming changes to Missiles in his New Dev Blog.

Crucis Cassiopeiae
Amarr
PORSCHE AG
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:10:00 - [2]
 

1st :)

Isan'na
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:11:00 - [3]
 

Very nice, hoping there's room for even more refactoring, but it's good to see things getting done. Thank you!

Oh, and IBC?

Xyfu
Minmatar
Love From Above
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:18:00 - [4]
 

INB4 Chribba. Awww yeeee.

Orion Teller
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:24:00 - [5]
 

sets FTW!

what can't these things do? Aside from effeciently add and randomly access objects.

Matrix Massim
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:29:00 - [6]
 

Moar missiles :D

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:30:00 - [7]
 

w00t! I actually followed the bit about python data types, thanks to my RUBBISH computer labs module I had to do earlier this year : P

Oh, and INB4Chribba

noldevin
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:30:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: noldevin on 07/02/2011 19:30:43
I laughed at the reference to smartbombs working better than defenders for stopping missiles.

Arklan1
Dunedain Rangers
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:33:00 - [9]
 

always enjoy blogs, and preformance improving ones the more so. yay!

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:35:00 - [10]
 

If missiles are going to be this much cheaper to spam, I'd say it's time to look at making defenders useful again. Given them some sort of super RoF, perhaps, and allow them to lock on to any nearby missle rather than not just those aimed at your own ship?

MollyPuss
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:38:00 - [11]
 

great work me old fruit :)Quick question? When I'm in a fleet and all the drones are out like a nest of drunken ants, my FPS drops to a stutter. Is this a sign I need to get a more expensive computer or do we need to make drones thinner too?

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:45:00 - [12]
 

Awesome****ingwork by CCP Veritas and his team. They all deserve the raise.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:50:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
If missiles are going to be this much cheaper to spam, I'd say it's time to look at making defenders useful again. Given them some sort of super RoF, perhaps, and allow them to lock on to any nearby missle rather than not just those aimed at your own ship?


The idea here is to eliminate the problem, not simply replace the cpu waste & load saved with defender cpu load. Eliminate defender missiles all together. There aren't laser defenders, or railgun defenders, why should there be missile defenders?

Has anyone ever given thought to rewriting the way missiles currently work? Ahem:

Instead of being a physical object to be tracked in space, give missiles a percent chance of hitting the target and a timer. When fired, they start with 100% accuracy rate. Then, the ship's transversal velocity and forward velocity decreases that percentage by a margin, and then if the target ship has defender missiles, that decreases the percentage. If the targeted ship only has 3 defenders that can fire at a given interval, and there are 4 missiles, and 2 defenders take out 2 of the incoming missiles, then the graphics can just represent 2 defenders seeking 2 of the missiles, and one missile flying past the ship, and one missiles connecting with the targeted ship.

Damage is calculated based on the final hit of each missile when the timer is reduced to 0 for that missile. No need to bother with adding it to the space physics. I'm sure the graphics would look way cooler if faked anyways. Idunno, perhaps this is method is harder on the cpu than the current method. Confused

noldevin
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:51:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: MollyPuss
great work me old fruit :)Quick question? When I'm in a fleet and all the drones are out like a nest of drunken ants, my FPS drops to a stutter. Is this a sign I need to get a more expensive computer or do we need to make drones thinner too?


I would love to see drones worked on. I'd bet on it that they are even more expensive than pre-optimized missiles. Plus I'd like to see them actually start following orders for a change >_>

SheriffFruitfly
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:52:00 - [15]
 

Pro work dude.

You may also want to consider tackling the issue from the other end: There's a certain overhead cost for missiles over guns just due to the plain fact that launchers shoot *things*.

Determine what the pure overhead cost of "just shooting a thing" as opposed to lazzors is - without any fluff like explosion velocity and damage and range and crap. Once determined, you've basically approximated what the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE perf improvement can be - and combined with what it sounds like you're already doing, what % of maximprovement you've already achieved.

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:53:00 - [16]
 

Well done. Looking good. I hope everything comes through QA.

One thing though. It's methodological note, perhaps. Not methodology note. Methodology is the study or description of methods. But you have used only one method, not several. At least, you only describe one method. Not study or describe a bunch of methods. And now you wish to make a note on that method, or describe it a bit. So it could be "Note on the method used". Or, as this could be a note of importance to those interested in methodology: "A methodological note". But a "methodology note" is a note on methodology, i.e., the study and description of methods, like, "Methodology is often used when plain Method would be more suited".

Or you could have a section called: "Methodology" wherein you compare or study the method you used to/with other methods you could have used, or were used, i.e., again, a section of interest to those with interest in methodology, as in, the study of methods. If however you just wanted to describe the method you used, as I think you did, a better title of the section would be: "Method" or "Method Used", or "Description of the method".

See?

Either way. I like the method you used. It makes methodological sense. And I'm glad that it is producing clear hooks where clear advancements can be made. It looks though as if missiles will always use up substantially more resources. Is this about as far as you can go?

Invictra Atreides
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:00:00 - [17]
 

Nice work there! Enjoyed reading the blog.


Worzel Bummage
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:19:00 - [18]
 

Good work Dev nerds <3

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:21:00 - [19]
 

Ah yes, back to basics with data structures ;)
One wonders how many more sins can be discovered in the legacy code...

Skanthra
Minmatar
Bath and Body Works
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:22:00 - [20]
 

Good read.

Axemaster
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:23:00 - [21]
 

Wouldn't it be best to replace defenders with point defense guns? They could be fully automatic, have zero optimal range and some specified falloff range. Make them a capital class module or something...

More on topic, it is nice to see Eve being optimized. It's been a long time coming, and I hope it becomes a serious policy of CCP to always have a few teams working on this stuff.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2011.02.07 20:24:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Aineko Macx
Ah yes, back to basics with data structures ;) One wonders how many more sins can be discovered in the legacy code...
I daresay that there are a few...

PTang
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:28:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: PTang on 07/02/2011 20:30:10
Thanks for all the work guys!

but... I have one question... now that you've gotten to the repeats per second to such a level, why not...

Double missile damage.
lower rate of fire.
keep dps the same



i mean, sure it would have some impact on gameplay, making missles an alpha damage weapon, but why not? That would get them down to the same cpu cost as gun fire?

or am I thinking of this the wrong way?

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:46:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Aineko Macx
Ah yes, back to basics with data structures ;) One wonders how many more sins can be discovered in the legacy code...
I daresay that there are a few...

–adjective
1.
not many but more than one:


Not many you say?

Sliana Non'Grata
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:49:00 - [25]
 

Or you could eliminate that overhead alltogether and just create a 'really slow moving particle effect' that simulates missle movement, then you could just calculate the damage on the server and have the client render all the rest.

Milla Jovobitch
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:50:00 - [26]
 

Thanks for the theory bits!

Milla appreciates.

Queen Boxxy
Autistic Sharks
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:53:00 - [27]
 

Now they have fixed the gremlins in missiles. We can now stop using them and find the gremlins in the next buggy thing.

I think we are going to tracking disruptors.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:54:00 - [28]
 

Awesome work! Really great.

Isn't it amazing how much of a difference the simple change from one basic data structure to some other basic data structure can be?

Harold Hammerstein
Caldari
KINGS OF EDEN
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.02.07 20:57:00 - [29]
 

Hot Pickle! Hot Pickle I say! Way to go CCP :)

WTB: Mid-course update/correct for 'em, and a cool camera view so I can watch my missiles impact!!! Laughing




CCP Veritas

Posted - 2011.02.07 20:57:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: MollyPuss
great work me old fruit :)Quick question? When I'm in a fleet and all the drones are out like a nest of drunken ants, my FPS drops to a stutter. Is this a sign I need to get a more expensive computer or do we need to make drones thinner too?


There's little doubt in my mind that there are some grave sins in the client as it stands. For now, however, Gridlock is focused on getting the servers in better shape to handle things. I do seem to recall another team who was going to be looking into this sort of business, but I can't recall whom...


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