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Valentine Gannon
Posted - 2011.02.07 06:18:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Valentine Gannon on 07/02/2011 06:23:31
I announced in TS that I just purchased a Cerberus a few weeks ago and was greeted with comments like “sell it” “Its a terrible ship” and so on by my alliance mates. I had a sinking feeling I was going to be in for an awful ride. Much to my surprise my experience in this Caldari bird of pray was so different than the general opinion I feel obligated to report my experience which in short was very positive. Has anyone else had this experience or am I hallucinating? 53 Kills in small gang with this boat and counting.

High
5x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (Terror Rage Assault Missile)

Mid
1x 10MN Afterburner II
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Photon Scattering Field
1x Invulnerability Field

Low
1x Damage Control II
3x Ballistic Control System II

Rigs
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hardwiring
Zainou 'Snapshot' ZME1000
Zainou 'Deadeye' ZMA100
Zainou 'Deadeye' ZMS100
Zainou 'Deadeye' ZMM100

Boosters
Synth Crash

Missy Sasha
Posted - 2011.02.07 06:24:00 - [2]
 

People claim things like "terrible" and "useless" and "sell it" for more reasonable things like "marginally less useful than x" or "isn't as agile as my y" or "isn't the fotm"

Rubix Khamsi
Posted - 2011.02.07 06:52:00 - [3]
 

Heavy drake does the same but better and cheaper. If you go cerb, go heavy or aml IMO.

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.07 07:35:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Pod Amarr on 07/02/2011 07:37:02
Rewind in time 18 months.

Drake or any shield based ships would get same reaction.
People are lemmings

You missing a 5th slot btw for that fits on the middle rack.
I assume there is a LSE II in there.

If you fly in a gang I would fit a painter instead of the point
SO the mids would be

LSEII
EM hardener II
Invul II
Afterburner
Painter

Or tracking Disruptor and stuff.


AstarothPrime
Posted - 2011.02.07 08:30:00 - [5]
 

HAM drake does more damage, has better buffer and - is insurable Wink

Cerb is nice for show, and it doesnt have that "dam im in drake again" feeling. But tbh - drake fares better and is much cheaper then cerb.

I.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.02.07 08:37:00 - [6]
 

Congratulations, you have discovered an expensive Drake.

The Cerberus is a good ship with useful, well-defined roles in gang. But taking a PVE fit and adding a point to it, as you have done, is not clever.

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.07 08:57:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Congratulations, you have discovered an expensive Drake.

The Cerberus is a good ship with useful, well-defined roles in gang. But taking a PVE fit and adding a point to it, as you have done, is not clever.


I have yet to see a Drake that can throw HAM's at almost 50 km

Cygnus Zhada
Viziam
Posted - 2011.02.07 09:28:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: Gypsio III
Congratulations, you have discovered an expensive Drake.

The Cerberus is a good ship with useful, well-defined roles in gang. But taking a PVE fit and adding a point to it, as you have done, is not clever.


I have yet to see a Drake that can throw HAM's at almost 50 km



A cerb can't do it either. Max range is 45km, now take off 5-10% due to normal missile issues and you end up with 40km. You could ofcourse try to counter with "use T2 ammo then" but then the T2 HAM cerb would do less dps than a faction ammo HML Drake, and that's without counting the Drake's dronebay.

Face it, the Cerb really isn't good compared to a Drake, it has it's defined roles but it's a bad choice performance vs. cost effectiveness.

Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.07 09:37:00 - [9]
 

If you fit it with HMLs and use it at range to take out high priority targets (ECM) it can be a huge asset to a gang - it requires you to act semi-independantly and have good SA doing so - but it works great.

If you fit it with HAMs and fly it like a drake close range, then yah. . . its not really that great compaired to the drake.

M'ktakh
Posted - 2011.02.07 09:41:00 - [10]
 

To go off on a little tangent, I always have to laugh when people complain about flight time in sub-sniper ranges.

Simply shoot the secondary target, and presto, applied dmg. If you dont have a secondary, shoot your FC, as he is a moron.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.02.07 10:08:00 - [11]
 

I find it interesting that this topic should come up as I just purchased a Cerb myself. (I had to keep a promise to actually fly a Caldari HAC upon being gifted the skillbook.)

We recently went on a sniper HAC roam. Our fleet composition was mostly turret HAC snipers, a few long range tackle HACs, 4 cerbs, and some logi. We engaged a shield BC gang of roughly equivalent size. The fight was about even. The Cerbs were constantly lagging behind even with MWD, cap was an issue because of the constant MWD usage, and the delay to dps being applied was significant enough to allow enemy logistics to rep the primary target before we could pop it. I can say with some level of confidence that Cerbs will no longer be welcome on sniper HAC roams.

The cerb's greatest asset (IMO) is its range. I get 186km from CN ammo. Using Rage, I wouldn't hesitate to engage larger targets at range. Problem is, like most Caldari vessels, that great range is useless if the target simply warps away. So you still have to have someone in close to pin the target down. And I think everyone knows that a close-range cerb is a dead cerb.

So that leaves 2 roles. One is a drag bubble camp cerb. Drop a drag bubble off a gate, warp to a safe 150km away, and wait. Or, anti-frigate duty. Fit it with AMLs, gank, and have at those Dramiels.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.02.07 11:19:00 - [12]
 

HAM cerbLaughing

no.



you can do two things well with the cerb. one is spewing heavies at huge ranges, the other is being a hardier anti-frig AML platform.
In the second role, the navy caracal is somewhat better due to the stupidly high agility and 6 launchers.


the cerb IS NOT a HAM platform. lacks EHP, speed and fittings to make it work properly.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.02.07 11:23:00 - [13]
 

Quote:
the cerb IS NOT a HAM platform. lacks EHP, speed and fittings to make it work properly.


Nope. Unless you're talking solo.

[Cerberus, HAM]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Target Painter II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Gang dps HAM Cerb. About 500 missile dps at 40KM with navy, 550 with rage at 35, 37k EHP. Small neut can be fitted with a 1% CPU implant.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.02.07 11:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: Gypsio III
Congratulations, you have discovered an expensive Drake.

The Cerberus is a good ship with useful, well-defined roles in gang. But taking a PVE fit and adding a point to it, as you have done, is not clever.


I have yet to see a Drake that can throw HAM's at almost 50 km


But you have seen one throw HMs that far. If you include Warriors, then the HM Drake also has pretty much the same DPS at that range as the HAM Cerb. That all said, with the right gang composition, there may be a useful role for an ABing HAM Cerb, with its smaller sig and higher resists, relative to the Drake.

As for the more typical HM support Cerb, as the guy two above me noticed, in larger gangs delayed damage is obviously a pain, although appropriate target calling and splitting fire can mitigate it to some extent. But the Cerberus will easily outdamage and outrange any sniper HAC, and still have a spare medslot for a TD. In smaller gangs, where delayed damage is less problematic and you're fighting gangs with fewer logistics and where the impact of ECM is more pronounced, a Cerberus is a powerful tool. But so is a Rook. Laughing

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.07 11:51:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: Gypsio III
Congratulations, you have discovered an expensive Drake.

The Cerberus is a good ship with useful, well-defined roles in gang. But taking a PVE fit and adding a point to it, as you have done, is not clever.


I have yet to see a Drake that can throw HAM's at almost 50 km


But you have seen one throw HMs that far. If you include Warriors, then the HM Drake also has pretty much the same DPS at that range as the HAM Cerb. That all said, with the right gang composition, there may be a useful role for an ABing HAM Cerb, with its smaller sig and higher resists, relative to the Drake.

As for the more typical HM support Cerb, as the guy two above me noticed, in larger gangs delayed damage is obviously a pain, although appropriate target calling and splitting fire can mitigate it to some extent. But the Cerberus will easily outdamage and outrange any sniper HAC, and still have a spare medslot for a TD. In smaller gangs, where delayed damage is less problematic and you're fighting gangs with fewer logistics and where the impact of ECM is more pronounced, a Cerberus is a powerful tool. But so is a Rook. Laughing


Both Rook and Cerb have their uses and Cerberus is not nearly as bad as people make it seem to be.

Comparing to the Drake which is really good BC will be allways tricky as it is with most other HAC's to be honest.








NoNah
Posted - 2011.02.07 11:59:00 - [16]
 

The cerb isn't bad at all, it's just not a drake-style brawler. I'll happily bring one on a nanoroam anyday, just to keep tacklers and falcons off my back for a while.

I could live with it getting a slight boost to sensor strength however.

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2011.02.07 11:59:00 - [17]
 

HAMs and Afterburner? You fly a HAC for superior range and mobility and you manage to lose in both regards to a run of the mill HML Drake fit.

Talk about a terrible fit. I'd start by selling your fittings and pick up some HMLs and an Y-T MWD

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.02.07 12:03:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
the cerb IS NOT a HAM platform. lacks EHP, speed and fittings to make it work properly.


Nope. Unless you're talking solo.

[Cerberus, HAM]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Target Painter II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Gang dps HAM Cerb. About 500 missile dps at 40KM with navy, 550 with rage at 35, 37k EHP. Small neut can be fitted with a 1% CPU implant.
ok granted it *might* work like that.

it's still somewhat suboptimal. HAM brawler works much better with the drake, even considering the shorter range.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.02.07 12:16:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 07/02/2011 12:16:56
But the point of a HAM Cerberus is that it doesn't have to enter short range. It can hang around out at the 40k mark and still be applying dps.

It's a setup/way of flying that takes makes full use of the fairly niché advantages the cerb has over the Drake.

Ah I should probably mention I personally HML fit my cerb, which has a slight increase in EHP (To around 41k) and honestly I just find it more flexible.
I've also found flight time issues greatly exaggerated.

Noisrevbus
Posted - 2011.02.07 12:18:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: "Pod Amarr"
I have yet to see a Drake that can throw HAM's at almost 50 km


Originally by: "Duchess Starbuckington"
Gang dps HAM Cerb. About 500 missile dps at 40KM with navy, 550 with rage at 35, 37k EHP. Small neut can be fitted with a 1% CPU implant.


Something that's becomming increasingly amusing to me is how people throw out statements on this forum, seemingly at random, without really arguing a point or realizing that whatever example they bring up does not shed light on the argument. What purpose is there to throw HAM at 50km? The Cerb does not all of a sudden gain a key role in a gang, or become a good ship just because it can fling a certain weapon type to a certain distance.

What advantages does the Cerb have over the Drake?

Mobility? not really
Damage? not really
Utility? not really
Tanking? not really

Any advantage it has is marginal at best, without practical implication or without practical application most of the time; ie., it is faster than a Drake, but it's marginal and still slower than other ships it needs to be faster than (eg., Canes), or ships that it needs to be almost as fast as - to comfortably gang with them (Muninn, Zealot etc). Thus nerfing Drakes won't make Cerbs popular.

There are two logical applications for the Cerb in today's climate: typical AB-mitigating plexing, and possibly shooting AML at sniping distance (arguable wether even either of those are practical, with extreme range and MWD's being allowed in more PvE environments while other options can pop tackle fast in PvP sniping gangs). You can easily do a number of things "for teh lulz", such as adapting AHAC concepts to shields or snipe at extreme distance, and you can probably shoehorn HML fits into various nano-esque sniper HAC gangs if you play with a large blob that don't care if you pile on less than ideal options.

This is a theory forum for discussing ships- and game mechanics, and in that light - delete your useless fit and sell your ship.



Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.07 12:51:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Noisrevbus
Originally by: "Pod Amarr"
I have yet to see a Drake that can throw HAM's at almost 50 km


Originally by: "Duchess Starbuckington"
Gang dps HAM Cerb. About 500 missile dps at 40KM with navy, 550 with rage at 35, 37k EHP. Small neut can be fitted with a 1% CPU implant.


Something that's becomming increasingly amusing to me is how people throw out statements on this forum, seemingly at random, without really arguing a point or realizing that whatever example they bring up does not shed light on the argument. What purpose is there to throw HAM at 50km? The Cerb does not all of a sudden gain a key role in a gang, or become a good ship just because it can fling a certain weapon type to a certain distance.

What advantages does the Cerb have over the Drake?

Mobility? not really
Damage? not really
Utility? not really
Tanking? not really

Any advantage it has is marginal at best, without practical implication or without practical application most of the time; ie., it is faster than a Drake, but it's marginal and still slower than other ships it needs to be faster than (eg., Canes), or ships that it needs to be almost as fast as - to comfortably gang with them (Muninn, Zealot etc). Thus nerfing Drakes won't make Cerbs popular.

There are two logical applications for the Cerb in today's climate: typical AB-mitigating plexing, and possibly shooting AML at sniping distance (arguable wether even either of those are practical, with extreme range and MWD's being allowed in more PvE environments while other options can pop tackle fast in PvP sniping gangs). You can easily do a number of things "for teh lulz", such as adapting AHAC concepts to shields or snipe at extreme distance, and you can probably shoehorn HML fits into various nano-esque sniper HAC gangs if you play with a large blob that don't care if you pile on less than ideal options.

This is a theory forum for discussing ships- and game mechanics, and in that light - delete your useless fit and sell your ship.





The fact that you do not see practical application from your [very narrow minded view point] does not mean there is not one. There is a lot of different combat scenarios that are probably out of the range of your limited experience. That does not mean that they do not exist so please stop stomping here in the 12 year old I am right and you are wrong.

Is Cerberus useful with all weapon types Yes depenidng on situation it is.

Is it a best HAC not by a long shot.

Stop telling people to sell their ships and delete their post IF you dont like the discussion then just dont post here. Laughing







NoNah
Posted - 2011.02.07 13:12:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Pod Amarr

The fact that you do not see practical application from your [very narrow minded view point] does not mean there is not one. There is a lot of different combat scenarios that are probably out of the range of your limited experience. That does not mean that they do not exist so please stop stomping here in the 12 year old I am right and you are wrong.

Is Cerberus useful with all weapon types Yes depenidng on situation it is.

Is it a best HAC not by a long shot.

Stop telling people to sell their ships and delete their post IF you dont like the discussion then just dont post here. Laughing


I'm however curious, just what is the point of being able to fling hams at 50km? That is compared to a HML drake?
IE what scenario is it you're talking about?

Cantina Pinata
Posted - 2011.02.07 13:51:00 - [23]
 

If you are looking for recognition whether it's a horrible ship or not? No it's not a bad ship. It's intended role (long range sniping) is limited in current pvp circumstances. In any other role makes it more often than not useless or atleast second to alot of other and/or cheaper options.

Just like the Rokh, not a completely useless ship but IF you have to choice to fly something else, I would if I was you.


Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.02.07 14:23:00 - [24]
 

Could be worse, you could have bought a Sacriledge.


Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.02.07 14:36:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Rastigan
Could be worse, you could have bought a Sacriledge.


sac tanks like hellRazz


tbh he could have worse yes, if he bought a diemost.

NoNah
Posted - 2011.02.07 15:13:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Rastigan
Could be worse, you could have bought a Sacriledge.




I'll happily duel your hac of choice in a sac.

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.02.07 15:46:00 - [27]
 

Cerberus is not bad, drake is just so good there is no point getting a cerb unless for very very specialized situations. Which are rare.

Valentine Gannon
Posted - 2011.02.07 16:10:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Valentine Gannon on 07/02/2011 16:23:27
The Drake does have its short comings for empire PVP.

Poor scan resolution – unable to lock cruisers and frigs before they warp
Poor alignment – unable to get the ship where it needs to be to catch a target
Poor Ham range – Unable to agress on regional gates/front and back of stations at the same time
Poor Speed – Unable to get into missions via. acceleratoin gates fast enough.

Honestly 98% of the effort goes into hunting trapping a target, once we have him he needs to die in 30 seconds. This is where this ship really shines over the drake.

Tony SoXai
Posted - 2011.02.07 16:16:00 - [29]
 

and why fly a vaga when you can make a cane go 2000 m/s before heat with the right setup and still have better ehp.

Noisrevbus
Posted - 2011.02.07 16:26:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Pod Amarr

The fact that you do not see practical application from your [very narrow minded view point] does not mean there is not one. There is a lot of different combat scenarios that are probably out of the range of your limited experience. That does not mean that they do not exist so please stop stomping here in the 12 year old I am right and you are wrong.

Is Cerberus useful with all weapon types Yes depenidng on situation it is.

Is it a best HAC not by a long shot.

Stop telling people to sell their ships and delete their post IF you dont like the discussion then just dont post here. Laughing



Newsflash, you are still just throwing out random statements without tangible argument. No matter how much you repeat it, it's still just a slogan: "Cerb is good, people who don't see it is stupid". Try to make us see it, explain how you would use it and why that would be effective.

I can understand that you couldn't handle the criticism in my post, it was a tad agressive, and you are prone to take that as an insult (even if the conclusion was mostly playing on the amusingly worded complaints in the thread title). My post however discussed the topic at much greater depth than you have been able to conjure up so far in this thread, despite your zealous attention to it - so maybe you should be a bit careful about telling other people to go away if they don't like the discussion, when they are contributing far more to the discussion at hand than you do.

Much like Nonah, im still waiting for an explanation on how you intend to put your ship to practical use beyond any of the gimmicks that has already been discussed. In fact, feel free to repeat any of those gimmicks if you can describe an overall practical use of it (you know, something that doesn't require ideal conditions that your enemy can't have or would be worth spending the SP for).


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