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blankseplocked To swap, or not to swap, ammo during a fight
 
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Substantia Nigra
Posted - 2011.02.07 03:42:00 - [1]
 

I'm hoping some of you PvP-gurus can advise me on this matter.

I just fought in a small alliance PvP-tourney (T2 autocannon rupture) and could not decide whether I was better just to stick with my starter ammo (RF EMP M) once I got my opponents into armor or whether I was better to lose the 10s and swap to a more armor damaging ammo (?barrage M). In the end doing-nothing won the day and I stuck with the EMP, altho I had barrage, RF phased plasma, and RF fusion in the hold.

Are there any rules-of-thumb to help in this sort of situation? Our fights didn't last terribly long, once the dodging and weaving stopped and people really came to blows, perhaps 5min max.

Cheers
Subs

Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.02.07 04:05:00 - [2]
 

In situations like that you'll loose out on far more DPS during the reload time then you will gain, especially since alot of people plug large resist holes.

masternerdguy
Gallente
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2011.02.07 04:12:00 - [3]
 

when in doubt, shoot thermal.

Aznwithbeard
Minmatar
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2011.02.07 05:39:00 - [4]
 

i usually use phased plasma on t1 hulls. Shield resist and armor resist are only marginally better then using counterparts (fusion, emp ) and most shield tankers use up a rig slot for EM while most armor tankers use one for explo. I always carry barrage, emp, fusion, and phased plasma in my hold tho.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.02.07 06:56:00 - [5]
 

Only reason why you should reload is that you have close range ammo loaded and the enemy is kiting you.
Although the reload might come too late in that case.

Aznwithbeard
Minmatar
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2011.02.07 07:23:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: foksieloy
Only reason why you should reload is that you have close range ammo loaded and the enemy is kiting you.
Although the reload might come too late in that case.



did u miss "its azns fault" ? first post i've ever made that you have replyed to tha thasnt started with that... hahha

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2011.02.07 14:40:00 - [7]
 

Never change ammo because you are now shooting their armor/hull. Ships (should) only tank with one layer

Example, once a Drake's shield HP is all gone, the remaining armor/hull HP will drop incredibly fast, even if you are shooting EMP at it.

Only reason to change is if you shooting something comically bad midfight. Kin at T2 Caldari ships, Explosive at T2 Amarr ships etc.

Substantia Nigra
Posted - 2011.02.07 16:56:00 - [8]
 

Thanks very much.

It looks like:
1. I'd have been better running phased plasma from the start rather than EMP;
2. Swapping ammo offers little / nothing in this situation;
3. I prolly should have had some long-range ammo and swapped to it for that darn stabber I had so much trouble with.

Cheers
Subs

Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.07 17:21:00 - [9]
 

Yeah 99% of the time don't switch ammo. The only time I've switched ammo was when fighting a passivecane, his shields were holding at 40% when I was shooting phased plasma at him for a good 5 minutes. Switched to EMP and he died. Took like 400k damage on his killmail or something ridiculous like that.

rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2011.02.07 17:26:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Aznwithbeard
i usually use phased plasma on t1 hulls. Shield resist and armor resist are only marginally better then using counterparts (fusion, emp ) and most shield tankers use up a rig slot for EM while most armor tankers use one for explo. I always carry barrage, emp, fusion, and phased plasma in my hold tho.


See, that's odd because the only time I ever use PP is against T2 Amarr.

I generally carry fusion and emp, with fusion being my "default" ammo as I use it in probably 60% of my engagements.

Fusion vs: T1 Amarr, T1 & T2 Minmatar, T1 & T2 Gallente
EMP vs: T1 & T2 Caldari, T1 ships that are shield-tanked
PP vs: T2 Amarr

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.07 17:33:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Othran on 07/02/2011 17:39:32
For Minmatar :

If I have no idea whats coming (ie gatecamp or solo) then I'll do one of two things :

1) Fit RF Phased Plasma

2) Rainbow it if 6/7/8 turrets - if you do 2 or 3 x PP, 2 x EM and 2 x Fusion then you get a reasonable split between shield and armour. If the fight lasts long enough to think about reloading then you can pull the least effective ammo and reload with most effective and minimise the DPS loss.

Edit - in all other circumstances you should have a clue about whats coming. Take Barrage, PP, EM and Fusion. Consider Hail now too as its not just a cheap way to kill static objects. Allegedly - I haven't used it since the changes.

The rule of thumb is simple :

Unless you are a laser user then plan for no reload.


Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.07 17:45:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: rodensteiner
EMP vs: T1 & T2 Caldari, T1 ships that are shield-tanked



You see the problem with this - and I'm thinking specifically Drake - is that everyone plugs the EM hole.

Most drake kills I see would die faster to pure thermal than anything else.

YMMV

Millie Clode
Amarr
Insert Cool Name Here
Posted - 2011.02.07 18:31:00 - [13]
 

Drakes usually end up with thermal as their lowest resist, but most other t1 shield tankers don't have the mids to waste on a damage specific hardener. Shieldcanes, for example, you'll usually see with an em-resist rig, so EMP is probably better there.

I usually just pack RF fusion tbh. T2 caldari/gallente have a *comparative hole* there and explosive still hurts t1 armor tankers.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.07 18:35:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Millie Clode
Drakes usually end up with thermal as their lowest resist, but most other t1 shield tankers don't have the mids to waste on a damage specific hardener. Shieldcanes, for example, you'll usually see with an em-resist rig, so EMP is probably better there.

I usually just pack RF fusion tbh. T2 caldari/gallente have a *comparative hole* there and explosive still hurts t1 armor tankers.


Take PP if nothing else. Fusion is very limiting.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.08 20:26:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Millie Clode
Shieldcanes, for example, you'll usually see with an em-resist rig, so EMP is probably better there.


A shieldcane with a EM resist rig has better EM resist than thermal.

rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2011.02.08 20:38:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: rodensteiner on 08/02/2011 20:41:19
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: rodensteiner
EMP vs: T1 & T2 Caldari, T1 ships that are shield-tanked



You see the problem with this - and I'm thinking specifically Drake - is that everyone plugs the EM hole.

Most drake kills I see would die faster to pure thermal than anything else.

YMMV


Well, that is a pretty good point. I was under the impression that most Drakes will be running one or two invulns, not an invuln and a photon, for example.

Some of my ammo choosing comes from the types of ships I usually fly. I usually fly a frigate hull, and therefor, most of my targets will be other frig hulls, meaning that fitting to completely fill an EM hole is more difficult. For example, a Harpy with a T2 DMC II and two T1 EM rigs will still have a low-ish EM resist.

I dunno, maybe I'll have to try using PP more often.

vlewandowski
Posted - 2011.02.10 23:34:00 - [17]
 

I think, the best is to choose the right ammo type before fight by visiting killboard where you can find the loadout of your opponent.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.02.10 23:51:00 - [18]
 

Apart from caldari T2, there is literally no reason to ever use Emp.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.02.11 00:04:00 - [19]
 

It depends a lot on the situation at hand and if you are fighting more than one ship. If I start a fight shooting Explosive damage at a armor Cane for instance and a Drake shows up, you better believe I'm swapping to EMP once I start shooting the Drake.

In most situations though I tend to stick with what I started with but it cost me a Cane a week or two ago. I was fighting a Myrm and had him just about dead when his buddy in a Cane showed up and I thought about switching to EMP because I kinda figured he was shield tanked.

Ended up being right and I died with him hitting structure.. Had I switched to EMP like my gut told me two, I'm almost certain I would have killed him because I spent a well over an extra 10-15 seconds worth of reload time shooting explosive ammo at one of his highest shield resists.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.02.11 00:12:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 11/02/2011 00:13:18
Originally by: Mutnin
...


If you arent absolutely sure, switching to PP is the best bet. Its almost as good as Emp against the cookie cutter shield buffers, difference is like 2-3% EHP. Its even better than Emp against plugged buffers.

And it doesnt cost you the fight if he turns out to be armor Wink

Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.02.11 14:44:00 - [21]
 

I think that against anything cruiser hull or smaller, the fight is probably gonna be over well before you'd benefit from a swap. Otherwise, if there's a lot of armor to chew through, I think it's worth considering a swap. The 10 seconds you would have spent shooting into a 50% (or better resist) will be made up for and exceeded if the armor portion of the fight is expected to take a while. That being said, you probably should have been shooting therm/explo in the first place, but it's still pretty common to go into a fight w/ EMP or barrage loaded.


 

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