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Marcovious
Caldari
Tech 9 industries
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:22:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Marcovious on 06/02/2011 17:06:13
To start, not a troll. I'm not hungry, no need to feed me. I just feel the need to vent a bit if you will.

I've come to the conclusion incursions are like raids in wow, unless you gs is over 9000! no one wants you. With people making other post their fits in chat. It is closely reminiscent of raid groups wanting to know one's useless gear score. As it seems to determine how good of a player you are. In eve this is even more a flawed idealism. Just because one person doesn't think that someones "fit" is any good or not, does not by any means determine this persons lvl of skill or play style. Plus to top it off, no one wants to make their fleet to big and get a crap bonus. Definitely not as exciting as i hoped for. You spend 99% of the time trying to find a fleet and watch noob chatter in the the channel while everyone else gets the glory.

Now i get that yes I could get some corp mates together and we could fleet up and do the same. But as CCP has clearly said, this is a social game, and the point of making the incursions as hard as they are is so you have to talk to and join up with people you wouldn't normally give the time of day. Especially when it is in High sec. Now that being said, I'm hardly a veteran, but i'm also far from being a newbie. I've been playing since sept of '05. I've played in some way or another just about every aspect of the game. Sadly the incursions have been the least satisfying of anything I've seen in eve to date. It is great for a storyline sure. But when it gets turned into a popularity contest of who thinks who's got the best fit. There is no point to even try if you don't fly the most popular ship with the most popular fit. Because if someone doesn't think you have exactly what they are looking for they pass you right by. Personally I feel if your in a dps fleet/group, the more dps no matter how minor would be more than welcome.
This i guess is what I get for assuming, Me, a player of 5yrs, in an HAC, would be more than welcome in to a dps fleet. Boy was a wrong... The general consensus was that Cerberus' suck and i should fly a drake, or something else... Am i wrong in thinking that this makes no sense at all? Or am i totally missing the point?

/rant



Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:34:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 06/02/2011 16:35:25
Better PvE can never be a bad thing. It's one of the few things EVE could have actually learnt from other MMOs.

I think you're complaining more about people's attitudes rather than the game itself tbh.

Jason McCoy
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:34:00 - [3]
 

Yeah I agree Cerbs suck

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:35:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Marcovious

I've come to the conclusion incursions are like raids in wow

This is where you have failed at EvE.

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:39:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Marcovious

This i guess is what I get for assuming, Me, a player of 5yrs, in an HAC, would be more than welcome in to a dps fleet. Boy was a wrong... The general consensus was that Cerberus' suck and i should fly a drake, or something else... Am i wrong in thinking that this makes no sense at all? Or am i totally missing the point?


yes, you are missing the point, fitting is selected on fleet level. If everyone is flying drakes then it doesn't matter your cerb has more agility, speed or missile range; it does matter that it has weaker tank. So yes, cerberus does suck, don't like it - form your own fleet with blackjack,hookers and nano-cerbers shooting missiles to 240km

Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:41:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Marcovious

/rant

it's fine l2p

gfldex
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:42:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Marcovious
You spend 99% of the time trying to find a fleet and watch noob chatter in the the channel while everyone else gets the glory.



Originally by: Marcovious

The general consensus was that Cerberus' suck and i should fly a drake, or something else... Am i wrong in thinking that this makes no sense at all? Or am i totally missing the point?



So to sum it up: You think your cerb is ubar while everyone else disagrees. The same everyone else who gets all the glory. You seam to have a hard time to find a fleet that is willing to take you in and you therefore complain about the fact that it's very hard to get into a fleet. Yet, those highsec incursions are cleared out after 4h. One has to wonder where all those fleets get all those pilots from to finish those incursions so quickly, right?

I'm terribly sorry mate, but you are an internet spaceship idiot.

egola
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:42:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: egola on 06/02/2011 16:42:56
he doesn't make any sense, drake=/= dps, cerbs w/ HAM set up isn't bad, a bit too weak on the tank side (PG ftl) so i'm not sure how'd he arrived at that conclusion. heck do incursion sites work like WH and sleeper sites? if not why wouldn't everyone just sit in BS hulls? or are they like plexes w/ ship restrictions?

Marcovious
Caldari
Tech 9 industries
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:56:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: Marcovious

This i guess is what I get for assuming, Me, a player of 5yrs, in an HAC, would be more than welcome in to a dps fleet. Boy was a wrong... The general consensus was that Cerberus' suck and i should fly a drake, or something else... Am i wrong in thinking that this makes no sense at all? Or am i totally missing the point?


yes, you are missing the point, fitting is selected on fleet level. If everyone is flying drakes then it doesn't matter your cerb has more agility, speed or missile range; it does matter that it has weaker tank. So yes, cerberus does suck, don't like it - form your own fleet with blackjack,hookers and nano-cerbers shooting missiles to 240km


I see your point of fleet being formed on fit. But speed and agility is it's tank, considering the incursions npc's target your lowest resist regardless. Haveing the speed and agility to counter the tracking speed seems to be better than getting pounded on. If i wanted to do that I would just take my CNR or my golem and hope logi support would save me... idk I guess i was expecting to much. As far as firing from 240 out, not with HAM. But regardless, even if i could fire from 240 out, what the problem with that if your looking for dps? I'm sure not going to be taking fire from that far out and if i do, i'm far enough away to get close enough to a logi ship. The point of a HAC to Heavy assault, ie. high dps. It's tank may be worse than a drake, as far as resist goes, but flown right it its far from a sucky ship. If i wanted to fly a drake i have 2 laying around gathering dust, because i feel the dps outweighs the tank, esp in a fleet scenario. I'm not disagreeing with you on fleets being formed for specialty setups. But as everyone else seems to think the Cerberus sucks, i respectfully have to disagree.

Marcovious
Caldari
Tech 9 industries
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:05:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: gfldex


So to sum it up: You think your cerb is ubar while everyone else disagrees.



I am far from thinking my cerb is uber. lol I guess i was wrong in thinking a tec2 fitted HAC with HAM's would have a hard time getting into a dps fleet. Let alone get "your ship sucks, get a drake" After spending an hour playing on the show your fit in chat game only to get you ship sucks, fly something we like. It got old, all im saying.



ps: yes tec2, im not fitting my faction mods for an incursion, i'm not that rich :/

Blackjack Turner
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:05:00 - [11]
 

"To start, not a troll."

Not a good way to start a post, usually means just the opposite.

Marcovious
Caldari
Tech 9 industries
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:09:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Blackjack Turner
"To start, not a troll."

Not a good way to start a post, usually means just the opposite.


Yea i thought about that after i posted it. But i am an easy going guy. If someone says something makes sense ill be the first person to admit im wrong. There's no reason to get one's panties in a bunch over a forum post. lol I just felt the need to vent a bit.

Fulbert
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:18:00 - [13]
 

Raids are 99% of the real, enjoyable, gaming experience of wow. Incursion are nothing for 80% of eve players : traders, industrialists, pirates, scammers, etc. don't care about it.

As far as i'm concerned, Incursion didn't spoiled my EVE gaming experience like raid-only PVE-in-a-PVE-only game ruined my WoW experience. Incursions are über-wormholes, that's it. Don't want it, don't play it. Although it doesn't stop you from selling ships and ammos to those who try them.

But Incursions have a positive aspect : they try to remind people that the second M of "MMORPG" means "multiplayer". PVE in EVE is mindless repetition of level 4 missions. THAT sounds wow-like with its stupid daily quests and reputations...

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:20:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Marcovious
Eve... The new WoW...?

Originally by: Marcovious
To start, not a troll.


I gotta admit, I didn't bother reading the rest. You start off with a topic and introduction like that and you expect to be taken seriously? Sorry, purposeful troll or not, that was the end of it for me.

Azasello
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:21:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Marcovious
It is great for a storyline sure. But when it gets turned into a popularity contest of who thinks who's got the best fit. There is no point to even try if you don't fly the most popular **** with the most popular fit. Because if someone doesn't think you have exactly what they are looking for they pass you right by.

This is what you always get when you engage in any kind of activity with random people in any MMO out there. It is a side effect of the inconvenient fact that you cannot kill someone who is ****ing you off. Solution:

- Leave highsec.
- Join a corp (of like-minded players, so you don't have to group with randoms)

If you don't find enough like-minded players, then there are two options for you:

- Adapt. Fly and fit what people want you to. Change your attitudes if necessary.
- Be a lone wolf. You will have to adapt as well, but you are more free to decide in what way.

However, there are two things that are guaranteed to not help you with your problem, but make it worse instead:

- Blame it on the game
- Blame it on other players

In general, if things are not working out well for you, there are always factors that you can change, and factors that you can only whine about on the forums. Focus on the former, ignore the latter.

Marcovious
Caldari
Tech 9 industries
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:30:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Azasello
Originally by: Marcovious
It is great for a storyline sure. But when it gets turned into a popularity contest of who thinks who's got the best fit. There is no point to even try if you don't fly the most popular **** with the most popular fit. Because if someone doesn't think you have exactly what they are looking for they pass you right by.

This is what you always get when you engage in any kind of activity with random people in any MMO out there. It is a side effect of the inconvenient fact that you cannot kill someone who is ****ing you off. Solution:

- Leave highsec.
- Join a corp (of like-minded players, so you don't have to group with randoms)

If you don't find enough like-minded players, then there are two options for you:

- Adapt. Fly and fit what people want you to. Change your attitudes if necessary.
- Be a lone wolf. You will have to adapt as well, but you are more free to decide in what way.

However, there are two things that are guaranteed to not help you with your problem, but make it worse instead:

- Blame it on the game
- Blame it on other players

In general, if things are not working out well for you, there are always factors that you can change, and factors that you can only whine about on the forums. Focus on the former, ignore the latter.




I agree, and I am in a very active Corp, most of which is in 0.0 sec space. I was just on my clone and happen to be close to an incursion. I'm not blaming the game by far. There is a reason ive played eve for 5 years. I think this is the first time i've ever posted in the forums if i think about it. Like i said these incursions got all the hype talked up and I guess i just got my hopes up expecting something they're not. My fault... Clearing neuts and WH's seem to be more entertaining and profitable. Just thought i'd try something new and exciting, and was sorely disappointed.

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Marcovious

To start, not a troll...




You lost me here. Rolling Eyes

0/10


Takseen
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:49:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Marcovious
Personally I feel if your in a dps fleet/group, the more dps no matter how minor would be more than welcome.
This i guess is what I get for assuming, Me, a player of 5yrs, in an HAC, would be more than welcome in to a dps fleet. Boy was a wrong... The general consensus was that Cerberus' suck and i should fly a drake, or something else... Am i wrong in thinking that this makes no sense at all? Or am i totally missing the point?




Due to the way the rewards are handed out, adding an extra dps could actually lower your rewards if it pushes you over the maximum fleet size for payouts.
As for people not taking a Cerb, I guess they're just playing it safe and sticking to what they know works. "Wiping" in an Incursion plex so to speak, is quite expensive after all.
I can understand why you're a bit disappointed with the system as a whole, and I also do start to understand why Incursions are madly popular in highsec only. Its the only time in Empire where its beneficial to fleet up. So people with no interest in pvp and who don't want to join a corp and go live in a WH(which is pretty pvpish) can get nice group content. Anyone outside empire is probably more into group pvp.

cytheras wrath
Posted - 2011.02.06 18:36:00 - [19]
 

completely random, but why doesn't ccp have a "keep me logged in on this computer option in their forums?"

now for the reply, HA! eve will never be like wow, or rather wow will never be like eve, or both?

for starters, wow has best in slot, and fixed class's and 'best in slot' and ideal spec's. this makes it where you have to say your 'fail' gear score to get into a 'fail' group, then 'fail' the raid.

in eve however, fleets are either shield tanks or armor tanks. armor tanks are more preferred as they are easier to fit and still use mid slots for utility's, like webs, points, hacks, cap boosters, target painters, etc. where as shield tankers are more low slots available for extra pew pew power. when it comes to PVE period in any game, you need a "tank", a "healer", and a "dps". in eve, its called your "fleet tank" and your "fleet role". no person with more then half a brain would fly guardians in a shield tank fleet. its not effective.

flying a t2 ship into incursions is not the best thing to do, you can fit a field a cruiser or a battleship that will cost you a lot less then bringing a t2 ship that probably is not properly tanked for a incursion, relaying on its dps output rather then its tank ability.

for incursions, fit for fleet effectiveness, not for epeen. sure you can fly a marauder! but why bring a 600m isk ship when u can bring a 40m isk ship that can do maybe 89% of the dmg a marauder can do for like 14% the cost? these are not level 4 rofl-easy npcs. they WILL kill you, if you don't have the right fleet, which makes it more important to select the "best" option for the fleet, rather then the most expensive.

Fly Cheaper, Take Less Loss's, Produce More Results, Win.

and now about your question...

Quote:
Am i wrong in thinking that this makes no sense at all? Or am i totally missing the point?


are you a fool bringing a 140m isk CRUISER that has less EHP then a BC and probably about he same DPS as one? dumb down or rather, upgrade to a drake or buffer raven. you'll be better in a shield tank fleet, then a cerb.... in incursions, i've noticed they shoot in relative priority order: Cruisers, BS's, BC's, Frigs, Destroyers.

so unless your little cerb can withstand over 5k volleys for enough time for a logi ship to lock you and get you back up... your useless to a fleet.

So, Your mixing your narrow WOW views with what seems like a hard time for you to get into a fleet. we don't ask for your gear, we don't ask for your level, we just want your ship to work in OUR fleets, this is eve, death is actually serious, so a fail fleet, is unacceptable.

p.s. incursion sites use sleeper AI 2.0, they will web scram, and focus on you if they deem you the weakest target, from their random locks to test your tanks. and when the server logs off, they keep shooting.

p.s.s. show info actually shows info on the Sansha incursion rats AI/role Type, and i think this should be removed and only be revealed with a ship scanner.

Cygnus Zhada
Viziam
Posted - 2011.02.06 18:46:00 - [20]
 

You either brought the right ship, with the right fitting and the right experience... or you didn't. Same goes for PVP, either bring the right tool for the job or you're going to be sub par at best and at worst you become a liability for your group.

Has nothing to do with EVE turning into Carebears in Space and everything to do with the will to perform. Not having that mindset is ok ofcourse but don't be surprised that other people, who DO have that mindset, will question your choices. Adapt, find a group that has a different mindset or stay solo.

Captain Die
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.06 18:52:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Captain Die on 06/02/2011 18:52:46
Originally by: MarcoviousNow
i get that yes I could get some corp mates together and we could fleet up and do the same. But as CCP has clearly said, this is a social game..


Hire moar ppl.

EDIT: Broken quote. ugh

PTang
Posted - 2011.02.06 19:35:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: PTang on 06/02/2011 19:37:15
Originally by: Marcovious
Originally by: gfldex


So to sum it up: You think your cerb is ubar while everyone else disagrees.



I am far from thinking my cerb is uber. lol I guess i was wrong in thinking a tec2 fitted HAC with HAM's would have a hard time getting into a dps fleet. Let alone get "your ship sucks, get a drake" After spending an hour playing on the show your fit in chat game only to get you ship sucks, fly something we like. It got old, all im saying.



ps: yes tec2, im not fitting my faction mods for an incursion, i'm not that rich :/


OMG edit: you're missing the point.

It's not a dps fleet, it's a tank fleet. they want tank, they don't your ****ty dps ship that will get one shotted. You won't listen in game either I bet. Incursions are about having a tech 1 ship with tech 1 mods, with a buffer tank so that you can take the damage before the remote reps get on you.

L2P.

dps fleet, surly this is a troll....

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.06 20:02:00 - [23]
 

Why would anybody wanna fly with some failfit that's just gonna get the whole fleet killed? I don't get it. Do you shout "llllleeeeroy jennnnnkin" as you warp into combat?

true Killjoy
Posted - 2011.02.06 20:12:00 - [24]
 

How I see it: Incursions help bigg 0.0 alliances get even more moms to f##k up large fleet fights even more with faction supercarriers.

No thank you. Low-sec skirmishes for me!

Medarr
Amarr
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.02.06 20:21:00 - [25]
 

-1

Eclorc
Posted - 2011.02.06 20:30:00 - [26]
 

I feel that a more levelheaded response might actually help here.

The FCORD fleet, early on discovered that the site that splits the fleet into two parts is a royal pain in the butt if you don't have cruisers (read this as HAC) along to accompany the Logi ships through the lower-size sized hole.

Granted, they tend to use armoured ships as their RR is set that way, but HAC are definitely helpful for an incursion fleet. Finding a shield fleet that has a brain may be the largest problem you're having.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 20:36:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: mkmin
Why would anybody wanna fly with some failfit that's just gonna get the whole fleet killed? I don't get it. Do you shout "llllleeeeroy jennnnnkin" as you warp into combat?


Hi mkmin. What is a failfit? I hope you can explain to me since you know I am sort of new in Eve. Thank you.

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2011.02.06 23:55:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Marcovious

I've come to the conclusion incursions are like raids in wow...

Now i get that yes I could get some corp mates together and we could fleet up and do the same...




I have seen the WoW raid mindset as well when it comes to Incursions. You know your in trouble when people start saying PUG in Eve or whatever channel you happen to be in for Incursions.

Its funny as hell when those people tell you that you need to fit for pvp and when you look them up on Battleclinic, they are rated between 100,000 and 200,000 or worse. Just smile to yourself and move on.

Dont believe the hype that Incursions are meant to be like raids in WoW. You were spot on when you said you could get corp mates together for an Incursion. At least, in my opinion anyway.

Keep in mind that most of those people who are smacking you around are to scared to venture into lowsec. They really are the kind of WoW player you see on raids raging about others in their group in a dungeon that isn't even of heroic difficulty and it still gets completed regardless of what they are raging about.

Eve has given us many wonderfull options we can use to combat the WoW mindset:

1) block function
2) war declaration
3) hi-sec gank
4) corp espionage
5) leave others to your imagination

Use of the above is highly encouraged by many of us like minded people who have a passionate hatred of the WoW mindset that is creeping into Eve like a cancer.

Mar Lee
An Army of None
Posted - 2011.02.07 02:46:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Mar Lee on 07/02/2011 02:49:08
Originally by: Marcovious
Edited by: Marcovious on 06/02/2011 17:06:13
To start, not a troll.


Starting off with an obvious falsehood. Tsk tsk, bad troll.

Quote:
I've come to the conclusion incursions are like raids in wow, unless you gs is over 9000! no one wants you. With people making other post their fits in chat. It is closely reminiscent of raid groups wanting to know one's useless gear score. As it seems to determine how good of a player you are.


Okay. If I was a FC, there are two very good reasons I would want to know your fit.

First is to make sure you know what the hell you're doing. Incursions are not for new players or idiots. If you don't know how to fit a ship properly, I don't want you in my fleet.

Second is to make sure your ship is compatible with the fleet makeup. I don't care if you're flying the most awesome Cerebus ever; if we're using remote armor reps, fly something that armor tanks or GTFO.

Whining about something as obvious as this would discredit your other points, if they weren't also bad.

Quote:
In eve this is even more a flawed idealism. Just because one person doesn't think that someones "fit" is any good or not, does not by any means determine this persons lvl of skill or play style. Plus to top it off, no one wants to make their fleet to big and get a crap bonus.


And there's the third reason I want to know your fit. If fleet sizes are capped, and I can bring you (with whatever ship you want to fly, you special snowflake, you) or somebody who knows how to choose a ship based on fleet makeup, I know who I'm going with. You apparently are familiar with WoW. Please stop whining like some PUGger who thinks he's entitled to run 10-man ICC with a set of level 80 blues. If you can't fly the right ship for the fleet, you have no skill. Period.

Quote:
Definitely not as exciting as i hoped for. You spend 99% of the time trying to find a fleet and watch noob chatter in the the channel while everyone else gets the glory.


I suggest you find a corporation that runs Incursion fleet ops and quit trying to PUG endgame raids.

Quote:
Now i get that yes I could get some corp mates together and we could fleet up and do the same. But as CCP has clearly said, this is a social game, and the point of making the incursions as hard as they are is so you have to talk to and join up with people you wouldn't normally give the time of day.


You clearly don't understand what a 'social game' is. Hint: you're not entitled to a spot in a fleet just by showing up in a public channel and whining.

Quote:
Personally I feel if your in a dps fleet/group, the more dps no matter how minor would be more than welcome.


You evidently have no idea how fleets work.

Quote:
This i guess is what I get for assuming, Me, a player of 5yrs, in an HAC, would be more than welcome in to a dps fleet. Boy was a wrong... The general consensus was that Cerberus' suck and i should fly a drake, or something else... Am i wrong in thinking that this makes no sense at all? Or am i totally missing the point?


FFS, man. I'm not going to try and argue Cerberus vs. Drake, but if you want in that specific fleet so very much, and the fleet wants you to fly a Drake, then buy a goddamn Drake. Otherwise, suck it up. If the ignorant pubbies don't appreciate your awesome HAC skills, find another fleet to fly with.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2011.02.07 02:56:00 - [30]
 

Oh ffs trolls need to try harder. Confused

I mean c'mon just take a few moar minutes to flesh it out before you hit the make new topic button.


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