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Ruareve
Posted - 2011.02.06 10:56:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Ruareve on 07/02/2011 05:37:51
I've been playing less then a year, but I thought I'd share some of the parts of Eve I feel warrant some adjustment. My background is mission runner with some mining, pvp, transport, exploration, low sec pos and trading. I participate in PVP some but I prefer to stay in high sec areas most of the time. That being said I kept all of my comments within the areas I have experience and not in low/null dominated discussions. The list below was created in no particular order and the numbers are there merely for organization of thoughts.

1. War decs- I realize Eve is a game with risk/PVP built into it's soul, but I think part of the reason the population is growing is the expanded content in high sec over the years. That said, I feel there should be some way for a Corp/alliance to be able stop multiple war decs. Maybe add a minimal threshold for activity to be able to declare another war within a 3 month period? Something like a minimum of 10 unique players on each side be involved in combat during a oen week period or the war is declared an internal dispute and no further war dec's can be issued for 90 days. Such a policy should eliminate some of the docking games and petty griefing that occurs and turn wars into full on battles.

2. Cargo ships- Most ship classes have a steady progression rate. Combat, mining, logistics... they have fairly steady curve from beginning to best. This trend does not hold true with cargo ships however. Industrial ships cap out around 30-40k M3 cargo space then the next jump is freighters with 600k +. Alot of people will point to the orca but training for the orca takes you out of the cargo skills and into mining and leadership. I think there should be some mid ranged freighters or some kind of super industrial to bridge the current gap. There should be some 100-300k M3 range cargo ships that do not require cargo unrelated skill training.

3. Missile ship options- More ships need to have launchers as a fitting option. I don't want to see launcher related bonus's, but just the ability to mount launchers for people that are missile specialized.

4. Tougher missions for high sec- I'd like to see Lvl 5's in high sec with the reward's reduced; low sec lvl 5's would still have bette rewards. I'd like to see tougher missions for the high sec crowd, something to help train for fleet ops and to provide a challenge that requires some teamwork.

5. Reduction to travel time- Some form of links that will reduce current travel times by half *edit* in high sec. A method of jumping that links systems that are normally 10 jumps. Add in a fee to use these jump links and don't allow autopilot to use them. I realize that once upon a time the gamme had highways, but my suggestion is more along the lines of toll roads. A series of links connected together that speed up travel but still require the use of jump gates and system hopping.

6. Easier to use overview- The overview box is a pain in the butt to setup. I would like to see some form of GUI to allow the overview to be setup easily. An in game walk through showing you what each option does and asking if you want to turn an option on or off. Included in this should be a simple method for setting up the overview tabs.


VE3DVY
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.06 10:59:00 - [2]
 

4. Tougher missions for high sec- I'd like to see Lvl 5's in high sec with the reward's reduced; low sec lvl 5's would still have bette rewards. I'd like to see tougher missions for the high sec crowd, something to help train for fleet ops and to provide a challenge that requires some teamwork.

No. I'm a mission runner, and even I don't want to see this. Part of the "toughness" of lvl 5's is that they are in low sec. If you want to train for fleet ops, run some incursions.

Ruareve
Posted - 2011.02.06 11:07:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: VE3DVY
4. Tougher missions for high sec- I'd like to see Lvl 5's in high sec with the reward's reduced; low sec lvl 5's would still have bette rewards. I'd like to see tougher missions for the high sec crowd, something to help train for fleet ops and to provide a challenge that requires some teamwork.

No. I'm a mission runner, and even I don't want to see this. Part of the "toughness" of lvl 5's is that they are in low sec. If you want to train for fleet ops, run some incursions.


The people that go to low sec would be rewarded for their additional difficult by having higher rewards. Having additional options is good for a game, providing more people content to enjoy is how you keep subscriptions going. CCP just has to keep the risk/reward balanced. I bet that in the end a high sec lvl 5 would net close to the same reward as knocking out multiple lvl 4's, the main difference is the added challenge for people that want to push themselves a little more. Not everyone wants to go to low sec, so giving them content in high sec makes sense.

Mocam
Posted - 2011.02.06 11:56:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Ruareve

3. Missile ship options- More ships need to have launchers as a fitting option. I don't want to see launcher related bonus's, but just the ability to mount launchers for people that are missile specialized.


Actually reverse this - make defenders work really well an load them on sleeper class NPC's too.

I think it'd be kind of funny to see missile ships lose about half their shots from defenders and having missile defense ships protect fleets. That would pretty much revamp PvP, dropping lag immensely and bring the missile ships in line with other weapons systems.

Watch all those Tengu pilots go nuts whining for refunds due to having very expensive ships that don't "out do" all other ships anymore.

Grace Wing
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.02.06 12:04:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ruareve
1. War decs- I realize Eve is a game with risk/PVP built into it's soul, but I think part of the reason the population is growing is the expanded content in high sec over the years. That said, I feel there should be some way for a Corp/alliance to be able stop multiple war decs. Maybe add a minimal threshold for activity to be able to declare another war within a 3 month period? Something like a minimum of 10 unique players on each side be involved in combat during a oen week period or the war is declared an internal dispute and no further war dec's can be issued for 90 days. Such a policy should eliminate some of the docking games and petty griefing that occurs and turn wars into full on battles.


No, the war dec system is prefect for both sides. "Petty griefing" and docking games is what high sec warfare is all about. Griefers can gank bears and bears can annoy griefers with corp hopping or joining an alliance. Either way, both sides get plenty of tears which means the system is in fact, perfect. Don't like it that way? Stay in an NPC corp.

Originally by: Ruareve
2. Cargo ships- Most ship classes have a steady progression rate. Combat, mining, logistics... they have fairly steady curve from beginning to best. This trend does not hold true with cargo ships however. Industrial ships cap out around 30-40k M3 cargo space then the next jump is freighters with 600k +. Alot of people will point to the orca but training for the orca takes you out of the cargo skills and into mining and leadership. I think there should be some mid ranged freighters or some kind of super industrial to bridge the current gap. There should be some 100-300k M3 range cargo ships that do not require cargo unrelated skill training.


No. The reason the jump from industrials to freighters is so huge is because one is supposed to move around ships, POS stuff and other gigantic crap whereas the other is meant to move around ship components, minerals and other smaller stuff. It's perfect. Stop asking CCP to add more ships damn it.

Originally by: Ruareve
3. Missile ship options- More ships need to have launchers as a fitting option. I don't want to see launcher related bonus's, but just the ability to mount launchers for people that are missile specialized.


Again, no! Training missile skills is very easy compare to all the paths you can take in gunnery, never mind far less time consuming. Either train gunnery or stay in your drake.

Originally by: Ruareve
4. Tougher missions for high sec- I'd like to see Lvl 5's in high sec with the reward's reduced; low sec lvl 5's would still have bette rewards. I'd like to see tougher missions for the high sec crowd, something to help train for fleet ops and to provide a challenge that requires some teamwork.


They just added incursions. But let me guess... that's too hard? You would rather train for fleet ops solo, rite?

Originally by: Ruareve
5. Reduction to travel time- Some form of links that will reduce current travel times by half. Maybe jump bridges linking systems that are normally 10 jumps. Add in a fee to use these jump links and don't allow autopilot to use them. I realize that once upon a time the gamme had highways, but my suggestion is more along the lines of toll roads. A series of links connected together that speed up travel but still require the use of jump gates and system hopping.


They already made traveling faster and pretty much risk-less when they added warp to 0. If anything, they need to make travel outside of the major trading routes more engaging and implement a system where you need to use your scanner or some probing system to locate your destination. I'm all for overhauling the travel system but simply making jump gates that throw you further is a poor solution. Don't be lazy.

Ruareve
Posted - 2011.02.06 13:03:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Grace Wing
No, the war dec system is prefect for both sides. "Petty griefing" and docking games is what high sec warfare is all about. Griefers can gank bears and bears can annoy griefers with corp hopping or joining an alliance. Either way, both sides get plenty of tears which means the system is in fact, perfect. Don't like it that way? Stay in an NPC corp.


Petty griefing, annoy, corp hopping, tears.... You list several items that remove the fun from the game as reasons to leave the current war dec system as it stands. So in essence you are saying you like to have game mechanics that take away from fun. My suggestion would make it so a war dec is about a war (gasp, I know it makes too much sense). Having actual fights in high sec instead of lamer griefing tactics that are annoying and can drive people away from the game. With a minimum threshold of combat people can still kill off a pos, can still get back at someone they feel slighted them, but at the end of the week if nothing much happens then that's it for awhile. Let people get back to what they enjoy doing instead of playing boring ass docking games for weeks on end.

Originally by: Grace Wing
No. The reason the jump from industrials to freighters is so huge is because one is supposed to move around ships, POS stuff and other gigantic crap whereas the other is meant to move around ship components, minerals and other smaller stuff. It's perfect. Stop asking CCP to add more ships damn it.


Next you say you don't want more ships. So you want the game to get stagnant and not progress. Excellent opinion to have. Why not remove some of the ships that exist now to bring things more in line with your drab viewpoint? Additional options are good for a game. Options allow people to cater to their own play style. It doesn't take anything away from current game play and in fact it adds to what can be done. Graduated progression is already demonstrated in the game and would be a great fit for cargo ships.

Originally by: Grace Wing
Again, no! Training missile skills is very easy compare to all the paths you can take in gunnery, never mind far less time consuming. Either train gunnery or stay in your drake.


First, I don't fly a drake anymore, I like some of the faction stuff and I'm branching out into some of the specialty cruisers when my corp does pvp things. Second, we come back to your seeming hatred of letting people have a choice in how they play. AFAIK gunnery and missile skills take about the same amount of time to train. There are a few differences in paths but overall the times are about equal. The biggest difference is that ships have a few turret slots while very few ships have launcher slots. All I'm asking for is some diversity to ship options for missile users. All drone boats with a few launchers, minmatar ships with equal turret/launcher combos, all caldari ships having some kind of launcher option. I can understand why amarr wouldn't make any changes, but there is room for some balance on letting players fly ships with some non-optimal fits that are just fun to fly.

Originally by: Grace Wing
They just added incursions. But let me guess... that's too hard? You would rather train for fleet ops solo, rite?


Incursions are not something you can plan ahead of time, they are not consistent, they are not a progressive step up from lvl four missions, and they are not a good way to offer high sec players challenging missions. Level five missions with scaled back rewards are the way to provide more options for the player base. However it seems you aren't so keen on letting people play how they want, I gather you only want people to play your way.


Ruareve
Posted - 2011.02.06 13:05:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Grace Wing
They already made traveling faster and pretty much risk-less when they added warp to 0. If anything, they need to make travel outside of the major trading routes more engaging and implement a system where you need to use your scanner or some probing system to locate your destination. I'm all for overhauling the travel system but simply making jump gates that throw you further is a poor solution. Don't be lazy.


Every single MMO out there has streamlined travel to take out the boring in the game. I spent half an hour jumping one way the other night and none of it was autopilot. Then I spent another half hour jumping back. An hour spent just clicking "warp to ..." which was incredibly boring and not fun. Sometimes travel is required for various reasons, but that's at a region level. Cross region travel should be simple and quick to take part of the boring out of the game. The toll road idea would allow for rapid transit for those that want to pay the price, allow anyone wanting go cheaper via autopilot to still do that, and in the end make the game a bit more fun. Oh and it provides some travel options for those that want to make use of them.


Now, I realize that everyone has their opinion and you dislike my idea of letting people have fun just as much as I dislike your idea that the game should be painful because that's how it should be. I do ask that if you want to provide a follow on response that you atleast give some reasons for your opposition.

Perhaps you like the current war dec system because it's a way to encourage corp's to form alliances and thus get more people to bond together. That's a reason, but my original suggestion already takes that into account and as long as the opposing factions are actively engaged in war they can continue that war for as long as they like. What I would get rid of is the griefing of large corps totall demorlazing smaller corps and eventually driving people from the game. Once the small corp had some time to get back on it's feet, form some alliances then they can initiate the war dec and have some fun.

Or, I could offer that adding missiles to turret boats would be imbalanced since the current boats have PG/CPU for guns and missiles have different requirements. The solution for that argument is taking the time to look at each ship and ensuring that missile dps never exceeds turret dps by hardcapping the launchers. In the end it might not be worth making the changes, but I'd like to atleast see some effort put forth to balance out a few of the ships, drone boats especially since it's such a unique style of ship.

Anyway, I'll end there. Hopefully if you respond it will be a bit more thought out.

Grace Wing
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.02.06 13:26:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ruareve
Petty griefing, annoy, corp hopping, tears.... You list several items that remove the fun from the game as reasons to leave the current war dec system as it stands. So in essence you are saying you like to have game mechanics that take away from fun. My suggestion would make it so a war dec is about a war (gasp, I know it makes too much sense). Having actual fights in high sec instead of lamer griefing tactics that are annoying and can drive people away from the game. With a minimum threshold of combat people can still kill off a pos, can still get back at someone they feel slighted them, but at the end of the week if nothing much happens then that's it for awhile. Let people get back to what they enjoy doing instead of playing boring ass docking games for weeks on end.


Those are all things I find fun. Petty griefing, afk cloaking, docking games, local smack, etc. Just because YOU don't like them does not mean CCP needs to cater to YOU and YOU alone. The war dec system is fine.

Originally by: Ruareve
Next you say you don't want more ships. So you want the game to get stagnant and not progress. Excellent opinion to have. Why not remove some of the ships that exist now to bring things more in line with your drab viewpoint? Additional options are good for a game. Options allow people to cater to their own play style. It doesn't take anything away from current game play and in fact it adds to what can be done. Graduated progression is already demonstrated in the game and would be a great fit for cargo ships.


Graduated progression? This isn't world of warcraft bro. How many T2 ships can you fly with T2 fits? Can you fly any T3 stuff? Unless you can fly all sub capital ships in game, don't ask for more ships. There's already enough ships and half of them need fixing. Adding a new indy ship because you cannot afford to fly a freighter is not the way things are done pal.

Originally by: Ruareve
First, I don't fly a drake anymore, I like some of the faction stuff and I'm branching out into some of the specialty cruisers when my corp does pvp things. Second, we come back to your seeming hatred of letting people have a choice in how they play. AFAIK gunnery and missile skills take about the same amount of time to train. There are a few differences in paths but overall the times are about equal. The biggest difference is that ships have a few turret slots while very few ships have launcher slots. All I'm asking for is some diversity to ship options for missile users. All drone boats with a few launchers, minmatar ships with equal turret/launcher combos, all caldari ships having some kind of launcher option. I can understand why amarr wouldn't make any changes, but there is room for some balance on letting players fly ships with some non-optimal fits that are just fun to fly.


missile skills: 24
gunnery skills: 40

yeah dude

Originally by: Ruareve
Incursions are not something you can plan ahead of time, they are not consistent, they are not a progressive step up from lvl four missions, and they are not a good way to offer high sec players challenging missions. Level five missions with scaled back rewards are the way to provide more options for the player base. However it seems you aren't so keen on letting people play how they want, I gather you only want people to play your way.


bla bla bla I want isk without effort bla bla bla me and my corp are scared to go into lowsec to do lvl 5's bla bla bla

Grace Wing
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.02.06 13:37:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ruareve
Every single MMO out there has streamlined travel to take out the boring in the game. I spent half an hour jumping one way the other night and none of it was autopilot. Then I spent another half hour jumping back. An hour spent just clicking "warp to ..." which was incredibly boring and not fun. Sometimes travel is required for various reasons, but that's at a region level. Cross region travel should be simple and quick to take part of the boring out of the game. The toll road idea would allow for rapid transit for those that want to pay the price, allow anyone wanting go cheaper via autopilot to still do that, and in the end make the game a bit more fun. Oh and it provides some travel options for those that want to make use of them.


Now, I realize that everyone has their opinion and you dislike my idea of letting people have fun just as much as I dislike your idea that the game should be painful because that's how it should be. I do ask that if you want to provide a follow on response that you atleast give some reasons for your opposition.

Perhaps you like the current war dec system because it's a way to encourage corp's to form alliances and thus get more people to bond together. That's a reason, but my original suggestion already takes that into account and as long as the opposing factions are actively engaged in war they can continue that war for as long as they like. What I would get rid of is the griefing of large corps totall demorlazing smaller corps and eventually driving people from the game. Once the small corp had some time to get back on it's feet, form some alliances then they can initiate the war dec and have some fun.

Or, I could offer that adding missiles to turret boats would be imbalanced since the current boats have PG/CPU for guns and missiles have different requirements. The solution for that argument is taking the time to look at each ship and ensuring that missile dps never exceeds turret dps by hardcapping the launchers. In the end it might not be worth making the changes, but I'd like to atleast see some effort put forth to balance out a few of the ships, drone boats especially since it's such a unique style of ship.

Anyway, I'll end there. Hopefully if you respond it will be a bit more thought out.


Comparing Eve to "all other MMO" is a bad argument because the reason Eve is such a good game is because it differs from all other MMOs. Making traveling boring, tedious and long adds to the game as it gives people the opportunity to catch nitwits with their pants down. Remember when Dominion was released how many big nulsec alliances had their freighters popped when they started hauling all the new sov crap and moving stuff around. Yeah, no. If you don't like traveling, use autopilot and go eat some cake.

Also, you're in a corp with 61 members and you're in an alliance. What's up with you going on about how it's demoralizing if big corps grief smaller corps through war decs? You're not making sense.

Either you're a troll or you are a new pilot who hasn't yet learned the way of life in Eve. No one really listens to whiners or people who think the game isn't fair. It's all about cause and effect. See, I'm a guy in a one man corp smack talking you like a drunk baby stomping serb. You could always submit a vote to your corp to war dec me.

Ruareve
Posted - 2011.02.06 14:02:00 - [10]
 

I'm not gonna bother with the quotes thing this time, just making the replies too long.

The system I propose will still allow you to have fun doing things your way, you just won't be able to keep doing it so the same people over and over.

I can afford to fly a freighter, I have an orca. That point is not what I am currentl able to do, the point is detailing aspects of the game I've disliked over the almost year that I've been playing. Yes that makes me new to the game, but perhaps the developers want to hear the point of view of someone that hasn't been playing for years and represents some of the people out there that are looking for a new game to call home.

You lumped all of the gunnery skills together, I am looking at them comparitevly. Someone trained in projectile's can use a ship designed for railguns and vice versa. Someone trained in missiles can not mount any weapon if there are no launcher slots. Yes, the guy putting projectiles on a laser boat will get less return, but he atleast has the option, the missileer doesn't even get that choice. Most people train one primary weapon set; projectiles, lasers or hybrids. Compare one class of guns against missiles and you'll see that gunnery has an advantage in ship options because more ships have turret slots.

How is wanting more of a challenge in missions the same as wanting ISK without effort? My corp is more then happy to go into low sec for lvl 5 missions, I'm not. I want the nice relative safety of high sec with some added challenge to missions. Options for those that want to play that way, not restrictions that make people get bored and stop renewing their subs.

You admit that travelling is boring, tedious and long, but finally offer a reason though when you talk about providing the opportunity to gank someone as they travel. The system I propose still allows for such actions. Traveling within a region will require jump gate usage and lots of spots for ambushing. The main difference would be a reduction in the boring, tedious and long.

As for my corp and alliance we are doing just fine, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing ways the system can be abused and thinking of ways it could be better. I've also heard about other people that did have issues and I can see their point of view as well. The point is to make the game more fun for everyone, which is tough on people that only like to have fun for themselves.

I'm not a troll, but as my first post clearly pointed out, I am rather new pilot to the game. I haven't once said the game is unfair, I simply think there are areas that could be changed to allow people to have more fun. I see something I consider a problem, outline why I think it's a problem, and then provide a solution. It doesn't get much more non-whiny then that.

Now, we could continue this back and forth for awhile, but you have already made it clear you only care about what's fun for you, don't really like change, and prefer fewer subscriptions as long as you get your way. That's your choice but I'm not going to reply again unless you have some kind of valid reasoning behind your statements other then "that's how I like it". Hopefully some other people will provide feedback or the dev's will take a look and consider some of my suggestions.


Grace Wing
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.02.06 14:44:00 - [11]
 

CCP take notes: moar FUN or less subscriptions!

Look man, all the things you talk about are not even game related problems, they're more you not being accustomed to the game. I'll be serious for a few minutes and help you out.

First about the missile skills. If you are a combat pilot, you need to train both missile skills and gunnery skills and drone skills. There is no reason not to. Instead of aiming for the bigger ship go for the T2 variants first. Instead of moving up from frigates to cruisers and battlecruisers train for interceptors, stealth bombers & assault ships first along with the T2 fits and support skills, then start moving up to bigger ships. Seems to me like you're trying to do too much at once. Basically, training your character for PVP and industry at the same time is a bad idea. Having said that, you definitely shouldn't train ALL gunnery skills at once. But some cross-training between stuff like rockets & autocannons is a must especially early on. Eve leveling is about time management and smart choices. Also don't forget to use your attributes remapping properly.

War decs can either make a break a corp. If a corp is repeatedly war decced it can crumble. You might see this as a game breaking feature because the people on the receiving end don't find it "fun" but that's their loss. They could have stuck together, used clever tactics in finding out how to deal with the attackers and in doing so become stronger, better PVP'ers. I've seen corps with less than 10 members take on others who had over a hundred. Also, when a corp gets wardecced non-stop, there's usually more to the story.

As for traveling, it adds to the feeling of being in a huge universe. If you could just jump all across the map then the feeling of a large universe would be lost. Also, you really shouldn't move all the time. Find a nice play to call your home and operate from there. Being always on the roam would be a logistical nightmare and I understand you wanting to make travel shorter. But again, that's not due to the game being faulty. Adapt. Find a place you like and stay there.

In terms of haulers, train a hauler alt. 'nuff said.

When you hit an obstacle in the game, think of what you can do to help yourself instead of wanting the developer to nerf of boost in your favor. Change your play style. You might end up loving the results.

Ruareve
Posted - 2011.02.06 20:17:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Grace Wing
CCP take notes: moar FUN or less subscriptions!

Look man, all the things you talk about are not even game related problems, they're more you not being accustomed to the game. I'll be serious for a few minutes and help you out.

First about the missile skills. If you are a combat pilot, you need to train both missile skills and gunnery skills and drone skills. There is no reason not to. Instead of aiming for the bigger ship go for the T2 variants first. Instead of moving up from frigates to cruisers and battlecruisers train for interceptors, stealth bombers & assault ships first along with the T2 fits and support skills, then start moving up to bigger ships. Seems to me like you're trying to do too much at once. Basically, training your character for PVP and industry at the same time is a bad idea. Having said that, you definitely shouldn't train ALL gunnery skills at once. But some cross-training between stuff like rockets & autocannons is a must especially early on. Eve leveling is about time management and smart choices. Also don't forget to use your attributes remapping properly.

War decs can either make a break a corp. If a corp is repeatedly war decced it can crumble. You might see this as a game breaking feature because the people on the receiving end don't find it "fun" but that's their loss. They could have stuck together, used clever tactics in finding out how to deal with the attackers and in doing so become stronger, better PVP'ers. I've seen corps with less than 10 members take on others who had over a hundred. Also, when a corp gets wardecced non-stop, there's usually more to the story.

As for traveling, it adds to the feeling of being in a huge universe. If you could just jump all across the map then the feeling of a large universe would be lost. Also, you really shouldn't move all the time. Find a nice play to call your home and operate from there. Being always on the roam would be a logistical nightmare and I understand you wanting to make travel shorter. But again, that's not due to the game being faulty. Adapt. Find a place you like and stay there.

In terms of haulers, train a hauler alt. 'nuff said.

When you hit an obstacle in the game, think of what you can do to help yourself instead of wanting the developer to nerf of boost in your favor. Change your play style. You might end up loving the results.


Excellent response. Most of your points are agree to disagree kind of stuff, but atleast you took the time to spell out why you feel the way you do.

Your missile/gunnery thing is fine but it still doesn't truly have anything to do with giving more ships launchers. I understand cross training, but there's no harm in providing more options.

As for war decs, we see the game differently. You are ok with corps splitting up and I'd rather there be a built in mechanic to keep that from happening. It's why I prefer high sec and you seemingly like low/null. We play the game for different reasons but I think that the actions of a few are hurting the many. I say that because there are many threads about getting more of the population into low sec because so many stay in high. Seems to me that means more people prefer PVE over the PVP so reducing the chance of griefing through a PVP mechanic would make sense.

I feel regions are big enough as it is and it gets old flying around for hours just to fly around.

I have a hauler alt, doesn't eliminate the fact that there's a big gap between hauling 40k M3 and going straight up to 600k M3.

I can help myself just fine. There are very few obstacles in the game I haven't overcome. Doesn't mean I shouldn't point out the problems as I see them.

Again, thank you for the well thought out post. I know I replied yet again, but we are going in circles at this point. Feel free to counter this last set of thoughts, but I think we'll just agree to disagree over them.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.02.06 20:53:00 - [13]
 

Overview:
setting it up needs a serious revamp in usability. Even adding a tickbox for "all items of this type" for each dropdown category would be a massive improvement.

Travel time:
there are a lot of people that feel that New Eden feels small. Ease of travel is one factor that crops up. This thread has a lot of feedback from CCP Greyscale about this, and what with Jump Bridges coming under the spotlight recently, I don't think that travel will get any easier. (I've linked the Eve-Search version so you can just show CCP posts if TL:DR)
Comparing it to other MMOs doesn't really fly, as normally, you need to be hitting things in order to gain xp and any travel time reduces that. In Eve, your training happens regardless of what you are doing.

Nora Skuld
Posted - 2011.02.06 21:30:00 - [14]
 

Your ideas may make the game more fun, but sadly we can't have fun in EvE.

War Decs exist so 0.0 Power Blocs can disrupt each others activities in high-sec. An alliance can't wait three months to attack a rival's industrialist alt corps in high-sec or be bothered with other formalities. Sadly, this necessary mechanic can be used for griefing. We have to endure.

Long and boring traveling is necessary to maintain market diversity. If it's too fast and easy to move around, prices will be the same everywhere. In my early days, I borrowed 50 millions ISK to buy some PvP modules in Caldari space to sell them in Khanid for thrice the price. If it was faster to travel between those two regions, prices would be quite the same and there would be no point to move goods around.

About the missile hardpoints thing I'm sure there would be balance issues somewhere.

Of course, making the overview more intuitive would be good.

No, we don't need lvl 5 missions in high-sec. We need an entirely revamped PvE gameplay. Current missions are atrociously boring, encourages too much ship pimping and is entirely disconnected from the PvP aspect of EvE. I never ran a lvl 5 and frankly, the idea of running one is nauseating. I don't know much about Incursions and Sleepers, but the little I know makes me hopeful for the future of PvE in this game.

So yeah, it's pretty understandable to propose stuff that would make the game more fun, but the game is easily breakable and sometimes boring stuff is there for a reason and changing would actually make the game less fun or downright unplayable.

EvE is broken forever. We have to deal with it. Laughing

Jamaican Herbsman
I Love You Mary Jane
Posted - 2011.02.06 21:32:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ruareve


As for war decs, we see the game differently. You are ok with corps splitting up and I'd rather there be a built in mechanic to keep that from happening. It's why I prefer high sec and you seemingly like low/null. We play the game for different reasons but I think that the actions of a few are hurting the many. I say that because there are many threads about getting more of the population into low sec because so many stay in high. Seems to me that means more people prefer PVE over the PVP so reducing the chance of griefing through a PVP mechanic would make sense.



The wardeck system contributes to the harshness of EVE: you're not truly safe anywhere (if undocked). Let me tell you a story about my first corp.

I joined my first corp around 2006 with my main account. I was a noob and trained for mining. We had good times mining away care-free while chatting in TS and getting drunk. One day one of our members got can flipped and eventually destroyed. He was furious and he smacked the can flipper in local. Can flipper enjoyed his tears so much that he wardecked our corp.

We had about 10 members. We had a corp meeting and tried to decide what to do. I stated that we must stand up for ourselves and fight. After the meeting and some "fighting", 2 of our members decided to quit EVE, 3 became inactive and 2 left the corp. 3 of us left, we tried to fight the hostile and allthough we didn't kill him even once (and he popped like 5 ships of ours) we truly had fun.

I was keeping contact with those 2 members who quit EVE and I asked why they left. Other one said that EVE is not for him. Other one (the guy who smacked the hostile) said that EVE is too stressful. I told him that it's just a game, don't take it so seriously.

While I didn't appreciate the situation then, now I see it as a blessing. The harshness is part of the steep learning curve of EVE. "Weak" players quit, or GB2WOW leaving us with moar players with a backbone.

Originally by: Ruareve


I feel regions are big enough as it is and it gets old flying around for hours just to fly around.


I think the size of the regions and/or new eden is fine. When I have to travel long distances, it gives me the feeling of vast space. RL analogues usually don't work very well with EVE, but galaxies are huge. If you think flying around is getting old, then stop flying around too much Very Happy

Originally by: Ruareve

I have a hauler alt, doesn't eliminate the fact that there's a big gap between hauling 40k M3 and going straight up to 600k M3.


Let me ask, why does it matter if there's gap between 40k m and 600k m?

Caldari 5
Amarr
The Element Syndicate
Blazing Angels Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.06 23:14:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Jamaican Herbsman
Originally by: Ruareve

I have a hauler alt, doesn't eliminate the fact that there's a big gap between hauling 40k M3 and going straight up to 600k M3.


Let me ask, why does it matter if there's gap between 40k m and 600k m?



Let me ask why there are combat ships between Frigate and Battleship? :P


Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.06 23:21:00 - [17]
 

I don't get why high sec people would demand tougher missions.
Isn't going to low sec automatically makes everything tougher?

If you want to challenge yourself - you go in PvP area and make money there. There's no challenge in shooting mindless bots!

DrDooma
Posted - 2011.02.07 00:04:00 - [18]
 

While I can reply to each one of your ideas and point out that each one of them has been implemented this way on purpose I would like to instead make a suggestion: join a 0.0 corporation or a pirate one that is dominant in your time zone.

This will eliminate all your issues with war decks, missions and missile boats because someone will actually show you correct fitting for your ships.

To train for freights does not take that long and mors corporations have a dedicated alt for this. As far as travel times go, to go 10 to 20 jumps out does not take too long, and the time passes by quickly if you get too kill some ships along the way.

raney ilara
Posted - 2011.02.07 04:53:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: raney ilara on 07/02/2011 04:54:21
Quote:
Reduction to travel time


There aren't enough words in the any language to explain how bad an idea this is. I'm sorry this is not wow.. we don't need portals... to negate the impact of open space.. space is really huge and it should be remain that way.

Use planning, jump clones, alts, or jump bridges; if they're not enough play something besides eve that has a more unrealistic pace. Huge space and distance is part of what is cool about eve.

Ruareve
Posted - 2011.02.07 05:36:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: raney ilara
Edited by: raney ilara on 07/02/2011 04:54:21
Quote:
Reduction to travel time


There aren't enough words in the any language to explain how bad an idea this is. I'm sorry this is not wow.. we don't need portals... to negate the impact of open space.. space is really huge and it should be remain that way.

Use planning, jump clones, alts, or jump bridges; if they're not enough play something besides eve that has a more unrealistic pace. Huge space and distance is part of what is cool about eve.


I'm mostly leaving this thread alone, but I want to comment on this reply.

You mention jump bridges, so I think I haven't been that clear. I meant for high sec only, with no changes to low/null. I'm going to edit that back into the original post.

I'm going to assume most of your argument will go away if the change is limited to only high sec since what I'm proposing would in no way impede your ability to travel through all of the systems that you wanted.


 

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