open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked Dreadnoughts?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Kusariqqu
Gallente
Hounds of Helll
Posted - 2011.02.05 17:18:00 - [1]
 

Useless now or what?

I've been trying to sell a fully fitted Moros now for nearly 2 weeks and no1 cares, no1 seems to need or want them any more.


Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.05 17:21:00 - [2]
 

Yes, useless.

Zhou Wuwang
Federal Laboratories
Posted - 2011.02.05 17:26:00 - [3]
 

Not useless; lower your price.

Kusariqqu
Gallente
Hounds of Helll
Posted - 2011.02.05 17:28:00 - [4]
 

I dont think 1.5bill fully rigged and fitted with strontium, oxygen isotopes and a shed load of ammo is over priced imho.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.05 17:30:00 - [5]
 

Moved from General Discussion to Ships and Modules.

Zhou Wuwang
Federal Laboratories
Posted - 2011.02.05 17:34:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kusariqqu
I dont think 1.5bill fully rigged and fitted with strontium, oxygen isotopes and a shed load of ammo is over priced imho.


It may not be in your mind, but your asset(s) is only really worth what the market will bear at the time.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.02.05 17:38:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/02/2011 17:39:16
Rapidly approaching uselessness, and unless re-purposed in some fashion they should be removed from the game.

However, if their tracking (etc.) were tweaked to make them a suitable defensive ship (in siege mode) vs. battleship groups they might see new life. Or perhaps in siege mode they could be tweaked to be much more effective in POS take down type activities than any super cap.

This would be a bit simplistic however, and since CCP have realized that shooting structures is not ideal game play I am hopeful that large portions of the cap/super cap game play will be reworked.

One thing that I would really, REALLY like to see happen is for the bane of super caps (Super Carriers in particular) to end up being a wing of some new type of frigate or destroyer. One that is of limited usefulness versus smaller vessels (including common carriers and dreds) but who's weapons systems are very effective against super cap sized vessels. These vessels would require protection from other ships, but be nigh impossible for a super cap to hurt. That would tie the rock/paper/scissor arms race together nicely.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.05 17:39:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1


This would be a bit simplistic however, and since CCP have realized that shooting structures is not ideal game play I am hopeful that large portions of the cap/super cap game play will be reworked.




Right.Laughing

Kusariqqu
Gallente
Hounds of Helll
Posted - 2011.02.05 17:49:00 - [9]
 

Great so another ship in eve that is useless thanks to ccp

Ozmodan
Minmatar
Massively Mob
Posted - 2011.02.05 18:15:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/02/2011 17:39:16
Rapidly approaching uselessness, and unless re-purposed in some fashion they should be removed from the game.

However, if their tracking (etc.) were tweaked to make them a suitable defensive ship (in siege mode) vs. battleship groups they might see new life. Or perhaps in siege mode they could be tweaked to be much more effective in POS take down type activities than any super cap.

This would be a bit simplistic however, and since CCP have realized that shooting structures is not ideal game play I am hopeful that large portions of the cap/super cap game play will be reworked.

One thing that I would really, REALLY like to see happen is for the bane of super caps (Super Carriers in particular) to end up being a wing of some new type of frigate or destroyer. One that is of limited usefulness versus smaller vessels (including common carriers and dreds) but who's weapons systems are very effective against super cap sized vessels. These vessels would require protection from other ships, but be nigh impossible for a super cap to hurt. That would tie the rock/paper/scissor arms race together nicely.


This, big ships should need support ships to function. This is a big problem with Eve right now.

Club Psychiatry
Posted - 2011.02.05 18:15:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Kusariqqu
Great so another ship in eve that is useless thanks to ccp



Dont worry CCP said they will change 0.0 and caps in 2012, what they will change it to is the question, could be better or worse, chances are it will be worse *cough* moros drone dmg nerf *cough*.

In the mean while please enjoy your time playing eve-barbie and eve-sims because thatís what everyone wants, not some fix

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.05 19:32:00 - [12]
 

Consider the facts... yours is not the cheapest fully fitted moros out there. There's one for 100 mil cheaper than yours and looks similarly fit (at first glance anyway, though yours is probably more fully fit). Even if yours was particularly appealing to anybody, it's in a 0.0 outpost which stinks of scam. Move it to lowsec, preferably some centrally located lowsec, and you might have more luck at the price you're pushing. There's a cluster of lowsec in the very center of the map that straddles several regions.

Actually, on closer examination I like the fitting. I don't have the isk to buy it, and even if I did, I probably still wouldn't because of the location, but at least I'd feel disappointed that I wasn't in a position to grab it.

Either way, it's a marketing issue. You're trying to sell it to people who have access to super carriers. Try to sell it to someone who doesn't.

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2011.02.05 19:38:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

One thing that I would really, REALLY like to see happen is for the bane of super caps (Super Carriers in particular) to end up being a wing of some new type of frigate or destroyer. One that is of limited usefulness versus smaller vessels (including common carriers and dreds) but who's weapons systems are very effective against super cap sized vessels. These vessels would require protection from other ships, but be nigh impossible for a super cap to hurt. That would tie the rock/paper/scissor arms race together nicely.


A few immediate holes in this idea I'm afraid:

- Supercaps fit smartbombs
- Supercaps fit heavy neut(s)
- Supercaps carry and can use A LOT of Warrior IIs and ECM drones

Unless you can think of a way of making a small ship that can tank potentially 20 Warrior IIs, can't be easily capped out and can do this "anti-SC" work out of smartbomb range, whilst not being overpowered in regular frigatet-sized combat, then we're gonna have a problem.

SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Aperture Science inc.
Posted - 2011.02.06 00:00:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Durzel
Originally by: Ranger 1

One thing that I would really, REALLY like to see happen is for the bane of super caps (Super Carriers in particular) to end up being a wing of some new type of frigate or destroyer. One that is of limited usefulness versus smaller vessels (including common carriers and dreds) but who's weapons systems are very effective against super cap sized vessels. These vessels would require protection from other ships, but be nigh impossible for a super cap to hurt. That would tie the rock/paper/scissor arms race together nicely.


A few immediate holes in this idea I'm afraid:

- Supercaps fit smartbombs
- Supercaps fit heavy neut(s)
- Supercaps carry and can use A LOT of Warrior IIs and ECM drones

Unless you can think of a way of making a small ship that can tank potentially 20 Warrior IIs, can't be easily capped out and can do this "anti-SC" work out of smartbomb range, whilst not being overpowered in regular frigatet-sized combat, then we're gonna have a problem.



Is a stealthbomber OP against other frigs?..

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.02.06 00:16:00 - [15]
 

It's the best PvE ship atm, so hardly useless.

Ivana Drake
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 02:55:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Fon Revedhort
It's the best PvE ship atm, so hardly useless.


I see Moros' soloing C5 wormholes all the time so it can't be that bad

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.02.06 03:58:00 - [17]
 

Dreadnoughts are good at destroying structures. They are very good at destroying structures. Nothing will destroy an IHub or reinforce a POS faster than a score of sieged dreadnoughts. Otherwise, they're useless for virtually everything else as far as I understand.

Dreadnoughts have relatively low DPS outside of siege mode. Both in and out of siege mode their tracking is so low that they sometimes have trouble hitting capital ships moving at full speed. In siege mode they are basically sitting ducks for enemy titans and supercarriers.

In short, dreadnoughts are very useful for taking hostile space, but not very good at anything else. Arguably, this is working as intended, since each (super)capital ship now has a specific role: carriers for personal logistics and fleet support (remote reps), dreads for destroying structures, supercarriers for destroying other capitals, and titans for fleet logistics and (sometimes) destroying other capitals. Any alliance looking to take space will want dreadnoughts, since otherwise it will have to rely on large battleship blobs or carrier/supercarrier blobs spamming sentry drones.

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.02.06 04:21:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Alice Katsuko
Dreadnoughts are good at destroying structures. They are very good at destroying structures. Nothing will destroy an IHub or reinforce a POS faster than a score of sieged dreadnoughts. Otherwise, they're useless for virtually everything else as far as I understand.

Dreadnoughts have relatively low DPS outside of siege mode. Both in and out of siege mode their tracking is so low that they sometimes have trouble hitting capital ships moving at full speed. In siege mode they are basically sitting ducks for enemy titans and supercarriers.

In short, dreadnoughts are very useful for taking hostile space, but not very good at anything else. Arguably, this is working as intended, since each (super)capital ship now has a specific role: carriers for personal logistics and fleet support (remote reps), dreads for destroying structures, supercarriers for destroying other capitals, and titans for fleet logistics and (sometimes) destroying other capitals. Any alliance looking to take space will want dreadnoughts, since otherwise it will have to rely on large battleship blobs or carrier/supercarrier blobs spamming sentry drones.


Were you aware that a supercarrier fleet can reinforce a structure as fast as a dread fleet and without sieging?

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.02.06 05:55:00 - [19]
 

Fighter-bombers do not have the range to attack large POSes, and am fairly sure that even with drone control units fitted in the highs a supercarrier will not be able to deploy enough sentry drones to significantly outdamage a sieged dread. Otherwise, yes, a supercarrier is generally superior to a dread, since it is immune to ewar, can attack other caps and subcaps, can receive remote reps, and isn't a giant sitting target when it's doing the only thing it's good at.

That said, point still stands, that dreadnoughts are useful for destroying structures, and only useful for destroying structures.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.02.06 09:09:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Alice Katsuko
Fighter-bombers do not have the range to attack large POSes, and am fairly sure that even with drone control units fitted in the highs a supercarrier will not be able to deploy enough sentry drones to significantly outdamage a sieged dread.

I think you have confused fighters with fighter-bombers.

Fighter-bombers can easily hit any size of control tower.

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2011.02.06 09:22:00 - [21]
 

They can dock, they do DPS to structures and capitals and they are pretty cheap and insurable.

While not the best tool for the job, they do have perks.

Djerin
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.06 13:22:00 - [22]
 

Not completely useless, but losing importance with every supercap leaving production lines. If CCP does nothing about it soon there will be capfleets and more importantly capfights without dreads, because everyone is fielding supercaps. It's only a matter of time and isk grinding until that happens.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.02.06 13:40:00 - [23]
 

The fundamental problem is that dreadnoughts are flying coffins. They may cost 1/20th of a supercarrier, but they also have only 1/20 the HP and 2/3 the DPS.

While this isn't so terrible on its own, a dreadnought has to lock itself in place for 5 minutes to do its job and lacks supercapital ewar immunity. While it may cost only 5% as much...you'll probably spend that much in dreadnoughts by the time you lose the supercarrier.

Kusariqqu
Gallente
Hounds of Helll
Posted - 2011.02.06 14:07:00 - [24]
 

So no1 wants to buy it then :P

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:09:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Kusariqqu
So no1 wants to buy it then :P


Obviously not at that price. Considering the odds of surviving combat unless deployed in the hundreds the age of dreadnought has passed. It is age of supercarrier now. You can get the hull of a SC for approx 8x price of the dread. And while it cant dock a holding character able to sit in the hull is not THAT hard to train.

freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2011.02.07 01:32:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/02/2011 17:39:16
Rapidly approaching uselessness, and unless re-purposed in some fashion they should be removed from the game.

However, if their tracking (etc.) were tweaked to make them a suitable defensive ship (in siege mode) vs. battleship groups they might see new life. Or perhaps in siege mode they could be tweaked to be much more effective in POS take down type activities than any super cap.

This would be a bit simplistic however, and since CCP have realized that shooting structures is not ideal game play I am hopeful that large portions of the cap/super cap game play will be reworked.

One thing that I would really, REALLY like to see happen is for the bane of super caps (Super Carriers in particular) to end up being a wing of some new type of frigate or destroyer. One that is of limited usefulness versus smaller vessels (including common carriers and dreds) but who's weapons systems are very effective against super cap sized vessels. These vessels would require protection from other ships, but be nigh impossible for a super cap to hurt. That would tie the rock/paper/scissor arms race together nicely.



My question is that if a new frig or whatever is brought into the game that can pin SCs down. What will be the use of SCs if anyone can just play the game for 2 months and have the ability to disarm something that takes 2 years or more to train for and worth a fortune?

It's just like saying i want my 100mil ship to disarm something worth 20bil. Doesn't make an sense to meugh .SCs and titans are meant to be powerhouses.

FINAL NOTE: I'm not a cap pilot but this is the way i view matters like this.

Mister Normal
Metanoia.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.02.07 01:46:00 - [27]
 

Someone had an idea of filling a gap between a Dread and a titan, by introducing a simpler super cap...

One that has 4 turrets with a 100% damage bonus, no siege, limited jump drive, and required a 'spool up' to jump, with about 8-10m EHP.

Djerin
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.07 01:57:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: freshspree
SCs and titans are meant to be powerhouses.
Sure, having scrub ships exploding scaps would be bad balancing. But the current situation sucks. There is no real counter to them. The only way to bring them down is to blob them. One way is to blob them with significantly more caps. The other way is to surprise them with a neut heavy subcap fleet and slowly melt them when they're alone.

Maybe the main problem is the lack of a proper role for scaps. The current role of owning everything is ******ed. Imho it was a really stupid idea to introduce them in the first place. Making them "expensive" is a bad balancing mechanism given the insane amounts of isk floating around these days.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.07 06:30:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Alice Katsuko
Dreadnoughts are good at destroying structures. They are very good at destroying structures. Nothing will destroy an IHub or reinforce a POS faster than a score of sieged dreadnoughts.


We're reinforcing your stuff with titans and motherships. Nobody wants dreads.

I likegirls
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.07 06:40:00 - [30]
 

Compared to titans/super carriers. They are low skill, and low cost.

So...... This means they are an easy way to add high dps onto the field for when you have that super cap log offskid or whatever!

Used in the suicide fashion as PL has been doing.... which paid them a Hel kill

They are just less useful than they used to be. Train for a titan and suck it up :-P


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only