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blankseplocked Would you be willing to pay for Expansions for more content?
 
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Lellian Marcellus Taron
Posted - 2011.02.06 01:05:00 - [91]
 

Now I know why paid expansions wouldn't work in this game. But some of the replies in this topic... you'd think none of these people have experience with games. Like they've been living under a rock and you're asking them to pay for the oxygen they breathe.

Wake up guys, companies will make extra money off of you somehow or some way. This shouldn't be something your primitive, anti-change attitude abhors.

Because it's going to happen. Maybe not in the form of paid expansions, but you'll see.

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.02.06 01:21:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Archbeholder
Edited by: Archbeholder on 04/02/2011 16:50:55

unfcking believeable
everyone claims to be a genius on these forums yet so few realize how easily it is to separate people with purchased expansions and w/o

Originally by: Scorpyn
In a game like EVE where everything depends on everything it doesn't make sense to add expansions with stuff that isn't available to everyone.

If you try to force ppl to pay an expansion fee, it'll make ppl stop playing, which means less income in the long term.

ino rite? wow released cataclysm and suddenly all those 12kk players are all gone


I'm not saying that it's impossible to separate players with and without expansions. I'm saying that in a game like eve it wouldn't make sense.

The statement about making ppl stop playing is what I believe is true for games like eve where everything depends on everything, but not for games like world of warcraft where you can simply add the same stuff but with different graphics and +11 instead of +10 in a completely new area with grey sand instead of yellow sand.

Xenea
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.06 01:32:00 - [93]
 

I would pay to change my bloodline... and I'm not alone.

Jojo Jackson
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 04:02:00 - [94]
 

No!

We allready pay every month. Some even pay 2 to 10 accounts peer month. WHY should they pay even more?

Ai Shun
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 05:08:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Lellian Marcellus Taron
Wake up guys, companies will make extra money off of you somehow or some way. This shouldn't be something your primitive, anti-change attitude abhors.


They are welcome to charge more. But in a way that (a) does not price them out of the MMO market and (b) fits with the design principles of EVE. None of what has been posted here has been sensible in that regard.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 10:45:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Ai Shun
My argument was not for bandwidth costs, but was for the fixed outlays that needed to be made to deliver the game to a paying audience. These are the upfront development costs and the setup costs related to the server farms. Yes, operating expenses will go up. But so will income from an increasing population. In the meantime, the fixed outlays before the game was available is recovered and that loss has grown into pure profit.


I believe you are talking about non-recurring cost (NRC) here. Although there is a NRC in the game, I believe they will need to upgrade their servers plus facilities to cater for larger player base.

It eventually means although NRC is non-recurring, it does pop up in different life cycle of the product. So money needs to be reinvested back into their facilities.

The argument is if Eve grows organically then the player base will benefit slow improvements over time because the product is receiving funds organically.

I believe the OP is discussing about if CCP can charge more money and improve the game quicker, would the player base be happy about it?

One way to have a quicker improvement in game is to leverage on the player base so that more staff can be employed across different products in CCP's portfolio. Therefore, Eve as a beneficiary will benefit from the process.


Originally by: Ai Shun

Like I said though - if you want to pay them more, you are welcome. I won't. Not because it is too expensive, after all, MMO subscriptions are cheap as chips. But there is an acceptable cost in the industry on what a monthly subscription should cost and that price point is around $14. Less even if you pay for larger chunks of time.

What do you think will happen to the player base if you suddenly tell them their costs are going to increase per month by 75%? And what will that do to your average, theme-park player who looks at a new MMO, sees a whole raft of them out there and sees this EVE Online sandbox game is almost $10 per month more expensive than all the others.

No thank you. Dumb, dumb, dumb idea.


I believe the 15.00 fee is a price that has existed from the very first day of the game. Plus the service has been running for a good number of years yet the fee has been pegged at 15.00 despite everything else in the world has grown by 5% on average year on year using non-core retail price index.

Taking that into consideration compounded with the organic growth in Eve's player base and CCP's portfolio of products, we are already paying a discounted fee today. Although Eve services have improved - better mods, GMs, devs compared to when it first started, the game still suffers as we see from the forums. The cause could be CCP is unable to assign as many resources to Eve as they would like to improve the game and services.

One way CCP can achieve their goal in improving the game quickly enough for the player base is to assign more resources. It can be done through having more subscriptions or by leveraging on the player base to achieve its goal. Afterall, if we really love the game and want fixes more often, then paying a little more each month helps.

The other way to improve Eve is to leverage on different products across CCP's portfolio by selling different gaming services. At the end of the day, it does benefit us all.

Maybe one day, I guess, we can voluntarily pay more by buying CCP's gaming pass for 35.00 each month so we get full access to WoD, Eve and Dust 514 at any time each month. Still does probably bring in good value for the player base because essentially they get a few gaming services for the price of a couple. The revenues then should be able to improve on Eve more. To be frank with you, we still win. I guess this is the way forward then.

As they say, every little helps. Wink

Fat Willy
Posted - 2011.02.06 10:51:00 - [97]
 

No. The expansions are what has kept me playing Eve continuously since 2003. I think that is how CCP's revenue model works?

nakKEDK
Gallente
Diabolus Ex Machina
The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents
Posted - 2011.02.06 10:54:00 - [98]
 

I allready pay for 2 accounts a month, i think that should be enough

Jenny Cameron
Caldari
Ordo Eventus
Inception Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.06 11:18:00 - [99]
 

Expansions for PLEX perhaps? Twisted Evil

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.02.06 11:22:00 - [100]
 

I have no problem with the content of expansions, so no. Also, I resent people who do have a problem and try to get such things I don't have problem with changed.

Ai Shun
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 11:42:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I believe you are talking about non-recurring cost (NRC) here. Although there is a NRC in the game, I believe they will need to upgrade their servers plus facilities to cater for larger player base.


Population online.

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I believe the 15.00 fee is a price that has existed from the very first day of the game. Plus the service has been running for a good number of years yet the fee has been pegged at 15.00 despite everything else in the world has grown by 5% on average year on year using non-core retail price index.


World of Warcraft:

1 month: $14.99
3 months: $41.97 ($13.99 per month)
6 months: $77.94 ($12.99 per month)

Age of Conan
1 month: $14.99

Aion - 2009 Best PvP MMO
Subscription Fee: $14.99

DC Universe Online
Subscription Fee: $14.95

Dungeon and Dragons Online
Subscription Fee: $14.95

Lineage II
Subscription Fee: $14.99

Lord of The Rings Online
Subscription Fee: $14.99

Star Trek Online
Subscription Fee: $14.99

Star Wars Galaxies
Subscription Fee: $14.99

Warhammer Online
Subscription Fee: $14.95

Some of these offer free versions.

But yes, let's follow your smart idea. Let's push the price of EVE up to $25.00 per month. For all those people with multiple accounts. And to ensure that the customer base not only shrinks, but will never have the opportunity to grow as it has been priced out of proportion to the rest of the market.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 11:56:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 06/02/2011 12:52:15
Originally by: Ai Shun
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I believe you are talking about non-recurring cost (NRC) here. Although there is a NRC in the game, I believe they will need to upgrade their servers plus facilities to cater for larger player base.


Population online.



What does the population online mean? I do not understand this one liner.

Never mind. I see what you mean after reading pages 3 and 4 again. You are basically saying the increase in the population eventually generates them income to pay for the initial costs plus future costs.

What I said was similar expressed differently plus the point if CCP/Eve needs to grow two or three times bigger, they cannot do it organically with population growth. It means they would need to expand non-organically to provide better expansion of services - GMs, devs, mods, infrastructure plus gameplay.

At the end of the day, the quickest way to obtain access to surplus is to allow us the player base to pay a little more. That surplus will pay for the bills and expansions - more devs, GMs, mods, infracture and gameplay. This is a leverage process.

If we wish to stay stagnant then we can only expect CCP to slowly progress us all. So fixes, expansions and support will have to come at a slower pace.


Originally by: Ai Shun

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I believe the 15.00 fee is a price that has existed from the very first day of the game. Plus the service has been running for a good number of years yet the fee has been pegged at 15.00 despite everything else in the world has grown by 5% on average year on year using non-core retail price index.


World of Warcraft:

1 month: $14.99
3 months: $41.97 ($13.99 per month)
6 months: $77.94 ($12.99 per month)

Age of Conan
1 month: $14.99

Aion - 2009 Best PvP MMO
Subscription Fee: $14.99

DC Universe Online
Subscription Fee: $14.95

Dungeon and Dragons Online
Subscription Fee: $14.95

Lineage II
Subscription Fee: $14.99

Lord of The Rings Online
Subscription Fee: $14.99

Star Trek Online
Subscription Fee: $14.99

Star Wars Galaxies
Subscription Fee: $14.99

Warhammer Online
Subscription Fee: $14.95

Some of these offer free versions.

But yes, let's follow your smart idea. Let's push the price of EVE up to $25.00 per month. For all those people with multiple accounts. And to ensure that the customer base not only shrinks, but will never have the opportunity to grow as it has been priced out of proportion to the rest of the market.


I believe the industry standard of 15.00 was first started by SOE. Previously, industry standard was less than 10.00. Everquest came and SOE enjoyed a price increase to 15.00. The rest is history.

Who knows what the next industry standard might be? At the moment, 15.00 seems like norm. All it takes is someone who can make a better hit and set the next industry standard.

Like I said, the alternative is, if CCP have more games, maybe they can provide a gaming pass that allows to play all of their games under a subscription. With them making more money, then our game gets better looked at.

They grow, we grow.

Ai Shun
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 12:52:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
You are basically saying the increase in the population eventually generates them income to pay for the initial costs plus future costs.


No, I am not saying that at all. Population. Online. At. One. Time. Fairly static with the occasional spike. Work out the rest.

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Who knows what the next industry standard might be? At the moment, 15.00 seems like norm. All it takes is someone who can make a better hit and set the next industry standard.


When the new Star Wars MMO hits the virtual world; do you think they'll come in with a $25 price point? They may have a shot at it as they have a desirable IP, are set apart from the standard fantasy fare of MMOs and so forth. EVE, is in essence, a niche game. They have obtained a good, profitable level of customers. There is no need to go beyond that.

And thus far nobody agrees with you. Do you really think the average player base will accept a price increase? With $5 million in profit; the capacity is already there for the system to grow. To such a degree that they have already diversified into other games.

Plus, any large scale software development project has a maximum number of developers it can absorb before the number of developers thrown at it muddles the waters; so to speak. For example, when using an Agile methodology the recommended team size is SEVEN. How many developers are working on EVE?

At this stage though I think you just like talking; instead of thinking it through and I'm done with this.

Invictra Atreides
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 13:22:00 - [104]
 

I would pay up to 80$-120$ per year for clothes, rented rooms for incursion and for the ability to custom color my ship. But I would not pay +5$ to the subscription to have all that above included. Cuz it looks like they force me to pay more to play.


Wet Ferret
Posted - 2011.02.06 13:39:00 - [105]
 

I'd hightail it out of here so fast. The day that we're restricted from content based on which expansion we have and have not paid for is the day EVE becomes no longer worth playing.

It's quite amusing though, that there are people who think paid expansions would somehow make all the problems in EVE go away. Laughing Keep. Dreaming.

Mangold
Mad Bombers
Guns and Alcohol
Posted - 2011.02.06 13:51:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

I believe the industry standard of 15.00 was first started by SOE. Previously, industry standard was less than 10.00. Everquest came and SOE enjoyed a price increase to 15.00. The rest is history.

Who knows what the next industry standard might be? At the moment, 15.00 seems like norm. All it takes is someone who can make a better hit and set the next industry standard.

Like I said, the alternative is, if CCP have more games, maybe they can provide a gaming pass that allows to play all of their games under a subscription. With them making more money, then our game gets better looked at.

They grow, we grow.


I have no idea where you live but the inflation has not been even close to 5% the last 20 years where I live (Europe). It's actually been closer to deflation. Just that makes your argument for price increase invalid.

If you look at competition itís pretty obvious that CCP canít raise the subscription fees, with our without more expansions.

For myself I am running several accounts and have recently resubbed a few of them and that is something I regret. Thereís no way in hell Iíd pay for an expansion. Not until CCP actually manages to fix the core problems of EVE which (imho) are bots, abundant isk, too long blue lists and stagnating 0.0 life. Isk used to be worth something but today people donít care if they lose a faction fitted BS. It used to be fun blowing up (or losing) expensive stuff but today itís meh.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 16:56:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Mangold
I have no idea where you live but the inflation has not been even close to 5% the last 20 years where I live (Europe). It's actually been closer to deflation. Just that makes your argument for price increase invalid.

If you look at competition itís pretty obvious that CCP canít raise the subscription fees, with our without more expansions.

For myself I am running several accounts and have recently resubbed a few of them and that is something I regret. Thereís no way in hell Iíd pay for an expansion. Not until CCP actually manages to fix the core problems of EVE which (imho) are bots, abundant isk, too long blue lists and stagnating 0.0 life. Isk used to be worth something but today people donít care if they lose a faction fitted BS. It used to be fun blowing up (or losing) expensive stuff but today itís meh.



Hi Mangold. Here is a sample of two Eurostates that I look at - UK and Germany. The list can be long but that is out of my work for today.

Note, when I mentioned 5%, I was taking the upper side of the range to make the calculations easier. UK's range is about 4% and does move between the ranges seen in the links below but it shows the point of what we are paying today in Eve is actually a discounted rate. So be happy.

Germany does not have RPI but they have CPI. CPI is usually lower than RPI so it is hard to compare the UK and Germany's inflation. Latest German CPI is 1.9% on the year and UK's RPI is 4.8% on the year. There is a trend that suggest inflation is going up. Days that the German CPI sitting between 2.5% and 3.0% and UK RPI at 5% are much nearer than all of us think.

So everything goes up and if we want better Eve, maybe it is fair that we pay CCP more? We would probably get better improvements from the extra money CCP gets. Afterall, I am sure we can trust CCP to support us since we pay them for the service.

Anyway, here are the links.

UK inflation over the past years:
UK RPI graph for 2006 to 2008.

UK RPI since 1948 Record since 1948. Since we are on topic when Eve was born, we are interested in years between 2003 and 2010. See inflation is consistently above 3% on average. 2009 was an exceptionally difficult year but 5% RPI is on track.


German inflation over the past years:

German Office of Statistics

You will only be interested in page 13, gesamtindex.

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:23:00 - [108]
 

Why hello there CCP alt o/

The answer is no, and the main reason being that it may start with a big load of content the first paid expansion, but then it would become paying the same for less and less content each expansion.

Thats how profitable business works. Deliver something to customers, then next time deliver it cheaper.

At least free expansions people can't complain too much. Or if they do you can just ignore them.

There are other reasons like changing it after always saying "free expansions" would be very bad form, along with removing those loyal but disenchanted players who tend to play on in the vain hope the game will improve someday.

Throwing money at CCP will only make them more greedy. I recomend everyone cancel subs and play on only with PLEX until CCP get the message the expansions need to improve....or...stop playing.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.02.06 17:59:00 - [109]
 

Another problem with paid expansions is nearly all of them have been fairly niche.

Players outside 0.0 wouldn't have paid for Dominion, PvPers and solo PvEers wouldn't have paid for Incursion, no one except the bots would have paid for Tyrannis' PI, etc.

Most MMO expansions increase the level cap and/or add new areas to explore. Doing that in Eve is hard.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 23:26:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Takseen
Another problem with paid expansions is nearly all of them have been fairly niche.

Players outside 0.0 wouldn't have paid for Dominion, PvPers and solo PvEers wouldn't have paid for Incursion, no one except the bots would have paid for Tyrannis' PI, etc.

Most MMO expansions increase the level cap and/or add new areas to explore. Doing that in Eve is hard.


What about free expansions but a little increase on the subscription fee? Would that help?

Skylitsa
Posted - 2011.02.07 01:38:00 - [111]
 

I would only be willing to pay less in subscription fees!

Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
Posted - 2011.02.07 03:39:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

On the contrary to you both, I believe the cost of maintenance has actually gone up.
Eh no, as far as operation costs, bandwidth decreases (trend since EVE was launched). I'm not speaking of your cell phone + home broadband package, but costs regarding commercial servers and data centers. Much of the high cost last decade (and it was high) was due to infrastructure development etc. But as the broadband infrastructure is deployed, especially in Europe where the EVE servers are, cost has gone down per GB/TB as is the trend. Same as with any new technology. In the US, it is a bit higher, but mostly due to the network still being deployed. How do I know? Worked for telecommunications for nearly a decade and run servers out of data centers.

As for hardware maintenance, CCP has had no reason to upgrade in years, and I'm sure the next big development milestone and deployment will still work perfectly within the current server architecture. I'm sure the servers were paid off long ago, and now it's just all gravy. That's just how it works.

CCP has other projects going, it's not about cost, raising prices or making wow style expansions just won't improve anything or speed up development. There are like some 300 working for CCP, throwing more people at the project does not necessarily guarantee faster/better results. And personally though, I just don't really see anything wrong with EVE to do so.

Jojo Jackson
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.07 04:40:00 - [113]
 

And btw pay-expansions do not mean, that you will get bug-free stuff or well thoughtout stuff or stuff faster.

I can't remember a singel boxed add-on for any MMO(R)PG, which was NEARLY bug-free at all!
Some even destroyed games (like DAoC:Atlantis (even I loved it)).

So if you expect, that CCP would hire more people, to release more stuff, this wouldn't happen. And more people does not mean, you get better stuff (well, more GMs could hunt more bot user *g*).

Biside this, a boxed add-on would mean, you would have content some player can use and other can't. How should this be posible in EvE? WHs for example could be a boxed content. But then the hole T3 market would be dominated by the view, who spent the money to buy the box.
This would **** many player who might stop playing then. In the end, CCP would make less money then without boxed add-ons (including me).

Ocih
Amarr
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2011.02.07 05:17:00 - [114]
 

I think there is room for both. New regions that you need a paid expack for. They dont even need to be unique or offering anything you can't find in the current version of EvE. Just a place to go and do what others do now, with less tooth and nail.

Liosa Rearl
Caldari
The Lost Legion
Bang Bang You're Dead
Posted - 2011.02.07 06:16:00 - [115]
 

I would not pay. I already pay for the developement of new eden monthly and i am satisfied with their progress.

What people don't realise. The eve today is 100% different from the EvE 4 years ago, and then it was different from the EvE 8 years ago. The expansions add content and rework mechanics based on what players have asked for throughout the years. We as a player base have created EvE as much as CCP has. Just because there isn't "much" per expansion doesn't mean that overall we haven't gotten alot. The universe has grown huge and will be even bigger with the coming of incarna and dust.

If you can't be patient then you should quit and play some other game. They have fixed all the bugs i know of on time.

Dr Sirius
Cybernetic Legion
Posted - 2011.02.07 07:05:00 - [116]
 

I'd be quite happy to pay for an expansion provided it fits my desires for the game.

In order for an expansion to be chargeable it has to deliver new content that is gated from the current content. The only recent content like that has been wormholes and faction warfare.

However I can imagine that some other content could be gated but it would need to be of significantly better scope and quality than some of the previous 'expansions'.

I'd like to see some sort of awesome PVP fun option where it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg to play. When I want to PVP I go play stuff like World of Tanks but if EVE Online had something similar (basically arenas with no death penalty) then I'd be quite happy to pay for an expansion like that. Right now PVP risk does not equate with reward for players like me who aren't very good at it.

Fouljin
Posted - 2011.02.07 07:08:00 - [117]
 

1. No, Im not paying extra for my 3 accounts. I all ready pay 45 euros per month, that should cover the expansions too.
2. No, Eve is a sandbox, not some static world there anything you do affects nothing. Players can become what they want in Eve. It's all up to you.
3. No, paying more money for expansions would NOT fix any bugs etc.
4. No, if new content would be available in expansion you would need to pay, then that content should be available to you easily. So all that new content would need to be highsec carebear easy to do stuff.
5. No, Eve is already exelent.
6. No, Eve is already awesome.
7. No, and stop comparing Eve to other games. It's silly. There's nothing like Eve in MMO market. It's unique.
8. No.

----
Cheers, and don't forget to salt the fries.

Eian
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.07 07:13:00 - [118]
 

Yes, I would pay for expansions if they had more content. Complete, quality content.

Eastman Color
Posted - 2011.02.07 16:01:00 - [119]
 

It works in wow because you can block off areas of the game.

I don't see that working so well in eve.

"you can't go to 0.0 and rat for officer mods"
"ok... I'll buy them off the market"

"you can'd do incursions"
"ok, I'll carry on with my missions without the interuption"

"you can't fly T2 ships"
"balls"

Ashley Dinova
Very Important POD Pilots
Posted - 2011.02.07 16:13:00 - [120]
 

Quote:
No.


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