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blankseplocked [Incursion] Drone Regions revisited
 
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Krutoj
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.03 13:58:00 - [1]
 

So here we are all "enjoying" the new expansion CCP produced after about 6months. Since Dominion the way Drone Regions operate has changed dramatically, from the so called Zydrine nerf (Tritanium boost (CCP's version)) to the creation of ihub upgrades, aimed to increase profitability of every system due to cosmic anomalies (such as Drone Hordes), with most of the said cosmic anomalies having a chance to give you an expedition (10/10 plex), which was great, it made a lot of sense for people to not only gather alloys, but try and get one of those 10/10 expeditions, just like in any other region, with its Overseers Assets and t2 salvage.

For a moment there, Drone Regions seem to be on equal basis (isk/hour) as all the other (Bounty) regions.

This was however short lived and as the time past since Dominion can seem like a while for some, for others (like me) it was a short "Gold Period". The other so called "Silver Period" was pre Dominion and was mostly attributed to R16-R32-R64 moon materials, not related to alloys.

After Incursion went live on TQ, Drone Region dwellers discovered a new feature that came with it (ofcourse as all the other outragious nerfs, it wasnt found in the patch notes), the most profitable of all anomalies that was primary income for most (just like Angel Heaven for Angel space and Sanctum for Guristas), was changed for no reason, therefore spawning a lot of anger towards CCP as, by doing so, many went back to pre Dominion rate of income.

See I dont really think CCP gets how Drone Regions work, or what ISK/hour means. All they think about is that Drone Regions are special, because battleships have no bounties and drop alloys which are a random selection of minerals that can be combined and used for building ships that can be then converted into ISK. What they seem to ignore or not acknowledge is the tedious process of getting income out of drones, while comparing the same process in other regions. Therefore it seems to me, CCP is having my regions in a disadvantage vs all the other regions, again, since Drone Regions no longer have valuable moons, nor they have profitable anomalies nor profitable amount of minerals (the mineral (alloy) drop from a battleship is totaly scaled to the one of in bounty space +/- market value of minerals vs time it takes to move them to sell, which boils down to drones < bountys).

Quote:
You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website. "EVE Online TERMS OF SERVICE"


Well its not a bug, its a feature, yet it does put 5k+ characters at a disadvantage to the rest of 0.0 space dwellers. My question really is, why? Why the biggest mineral providers (its not miners believe me) have to be poor, while the rest of Eve gets richer?

Before I leave this be, here is a small e-mail from one of my renters:
Quote:

Hello Krutoj,

Several members of my corp have been back and forth with ccp between GM's and bug reports their final decision is that the 85% income reduction they hit the drone regions with is intentional as we were all exploiting the system. we now make 50% of what all other space does where a hac in other regions can make 60-80m/hr we need a carrier or 2 to manage the same not including the fact that cleanup is involved. It's a bit BS and I have to admit beyond the idiocy of incursions and JB's this is probably the single worst patch ever




Now, I thought Dominion was the worst patch (I still do, the sov changes..just blows your mind), but Incursion DR nerf (or as we can see from that e-mail, exploit fixing) does seem to effect people a lot more than sov. I still dont understand the so called exploiting argument to the cosmic anomaly that existed since DR was created, it just was tougher to find than with the new system upgrades. CCP??


Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.03 15:20:00 - [2]
 

1st - its not YOUR region. Its the region where you live.

2nd - there are other advantages drone regions have over other regions

3rd - if you dont like the space where you live, move somewhere else

Altaree
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.03 15:33:00 - [3]
 

What exactly what changed. This is a rather confusing post that is making a lot of assumptions.. You are assuming we know what the heck you are talking about...

Root'er
NeoCorteX Industry
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.03 15:33:00 - [4]
 

name one pls .. or u know what

Ayuna Delnor
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.03 15:54:00 - [5]
 

imo, the only thing that's good in Incursion is the new character creator...

Leviathan Tank
Mad Bombers
Guns and Alcohol
Posted - 2011.02.03 18:13:00 - [6]
 

I too wish my macro ratters could earn more money.

Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2011.02.03 18:22:00 - [7]
 

HACs don't make 60-80m an hour ratting.

Goloith
Posted - 2011.02.03 19:00:00 - [8]
 

Have you failed to mention that all of xDeathx are isk farmers or carebears? Oh I wonder why they'd nerf that space? I used to live there and made a killing averaging 500-800mill a day, but when I was there the alliance I was with actually contributed something to Eve. CCP is just doing the rational thing and nerfing a region that the only contributes to Eve are in the form of isk manipulation from farmers and carebears.

Really your tears are so so sweet.

OutCast EG
Very Industrial Corp.
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.03 20:01:00 - [9]
 

What they changed is they moved the warp-in point in Drone Hordes 35k off the npc-spawns point, and made npcs spawn in 12k range.

How is this a nerf and a feature removal and not an exploit fix? Read Krutoj's post.

Hunuz
Minmatar
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.04 00:13:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Vuk Lau
1st - its not YOUR region. Its the region where you live.


yeah? i usually call the place i live in MY home, MY flat, MY Region

Originally by: Vuk Lau
2nd - there are other advantages drone regions have over other regions

O'rly? May be u can tell me, what are they?
Originally by: Vuk Lau

3rd - if you dont like the space where you live, move somewhere else

dont tell us what to do, and we wont show u where to go...

And guys rly, may be this sounds like whining, but u find unannounced changes in next patch, affecting only ur home region...this makes me feel like some1 dont like this region?

Vara'g
Posted - 2011.02.04 01:34:00 - [11]
 

For those who are unfamiliar or a bit ignorant on the matter I would like to give you a look at the basic and only one way that isk can be earned in Drone regions.

First of all. Read it to the end, it will be difficult and long. But just describing it is long, and much longer to do it. You will get my point.

You need at least two accounts, or two players to farm a belt with Drone NPC.
If it is done by two people it is already unprofitable. Belts can not be farmed by one person effectively ( isk av time spend) simply because of the dynamic of gathering Alloy from NPC. Simply put, One BS makes a killing and the second acc on the industrial has to gather wrecks by means of tractor beam and collect alloys. Also, it is unsafe to fly with loaded industrial, so u need to move it once in a while to the safe spot to the container which is always + more time. Industrial is slow + more time. Collecting Alloys into your own BS is useless and time consuming as BS holds little and forces you to constantly got o the safe spot to unload. Or to have secure container near the belt (cant anchor them in the belt do to lay out of belts –stones- in drone regions), so it is done outside, usually some 30-60 miles from where NPC jump in—so this is a travel time for industrial or your BS, back and forth again) So, finally u got some 10km3 good type of Alloys in your safe spot. You take them and travel to nearest station. If we take in account that quality of Drones aka Alloy depends on security status of the system, than there are not so many of the systems. So you finally got to the station (3-7 jumps on the industrial) and unloaded all your alloys. So now you either sell them on the station at a pathetic price, (here you see your dependence in isk making) or you move them to empire where you can sell them for better price.

Difficult road to empire!
All u know that moving industrial requires 2 accounts or two people unless you wish to lose it all.
A good level of industrial skills are needed to operate industrial ship with high cargo and cloaking devise which is in itself 2 month of skills ( for PVP pilot) + 130 mill for ship and fit.
Once you got that and a scout you set out on the road, you take jump bridges close to empire, which is usually 4-7 jumps from the center area of drone region. 1a8. lets take a hypothetical road through LXQ. Bridge in LXQ here is nearly always camped out by stealth bombers. From lxq you either take 16 jumps through low security zones which are nearly 24/7 camped out by pirates or you take a long road of 29 jumps through empire and 4 low sec systems.
( Keep in mind time and two accounts, effort of passing camps on gates, on bridges, wait time for it to clear, and often people need to simply log off chars and come back, 2 -3 hours later. + more time) Finally you are in Jita,
…………………..and you sell your alloys which are not that profitable any more……….. CCP cut down the amount of minerals in Alloys, CONSIDERABLY. Now, what are you to do with that riged t2 industrial ??????????????? Are you to hull it aback through the same obstacles’, or are you to sell it a loss of some 30%. ??? Also a few good alloys were removed from BS drop and placed into the cruisers and drone inters, so that we need to fly farther out to gather them. Drone NPC, especially many BS, now try to keep distance from you at a range of 40-50km, so u need to crawl to them with industrial againe.


Keep in mind time, and effort put in for the amount of isk earned, You se where I am going.

Now compare it to farming belts with NPC in any other region.
You get in BS, Command or Hac, you shoot the NPC and get isk right away.!!!!!! And you watch movie or easily chat and do nothing while getting isk. You may run 2 accounts in different systems and double your profit in time with no sweat, no need to approach, fly to safes, drag from wreck to cargo and all that nonsense. You can log off on a safe spot and be here next day to farm....

Vara'g
Posted - 2011.02.04 01:39:00 - [12]
 

You also raise your SS, and can go pirate, in Drone regions, killing NPC does not raise you SS.

In drone Regions there are no good ammo drops, like faction ammo or faction modes that go for insane money.

In Drone Regions there is no bpc on fraction ships! Or such a nice bugs as the BPO fro Cynabal, that was known by GMs fro nearly 4 month and nothing was done.

We have the most useless bpc ever; it is for those crappy drones, which in comparison to the time to get them can’t be sold for a good price.

We have no magnetometer signatures.

And getting 10/10 became even more difficult and time consuming do to nurfing of the jump in distance to the drone hoarde. Now we cant get in closer than some 30 km, where one shot at a bunker spawns from 15-37 NPC on your head,, small nasty things lock you instantly and scramble. After making a first shot at a bunker you have from 7-15 seconds to get out or you are done, keep in mind that there are 4 bunkers that need to be killed.

So I hope you can see the point. For the same time (excluding effort and constant attention to computer screen) other people make 2-3 times more isk in other regions by killing NPC, that in Drone regions.

As far as for all unsupported replies, we saw you in the ground on which we ……….

Krutoj
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.04 01:56:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Vuk Lau
1st - its not YOUR region. Its the region where you live.

2nd - there are other advantages drone regions have over other regions

3rd - if you dont like the space where you live, move somewhere else


For a CSM chairman, you sure are uninformed about DR space.

1st // my region as in my country, my home, my place of operation.
2nd // please enlighten us
3d // why would we move after investing trillions of ISK into a region and then leave? CCP should be considerate to that as its not only the isk but time of 2-3 years, which was a good profit for CCP, do they want us to leave the game seeing as moving to any other region would be pointless for us, changing games has more sense to it.

Vara'g
Posted - 2011.02.04 02:11:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Dodgy Past
HACs don't make 60-80m an hour ratting.


Only if pilot has hands growing from the part of the body on which he is supposed to sit.

Let me show you on “fingers” as people say, how it is done.

Let us use HAC, zelot with t2 fit, and puls lasers, with AB, riged for cap, 2 heatsinks, tank, what ever fit is good for you. Get one + 5% damage implant for medium lasers for 18 mill, and +3% damage implant to all guns for 21 mill. And you are set.

Our targeted NPC are Sanshas, do to their vulnerability in EM, if you did not know.

Let’s take and use 70 mill per hour. That is about 40 dead BS. You are telling us, that a system with over 10 belts will not spawn 40 BS in an hour? If a system is farmed and belts are chained there will be much more than 40 BS.

Or you are telling us that a well trained pilot on a close up Zilot will take more that 1 minute to kill NPC BS ? Come on, get real. And if you take only t2 fitted Bidon or Paladin, it will take 3-4 strikes to nail 1 BS, so 22 seconds top.

Rei ikara
Shiny Toy Guns
Posted - 2011.02.04 02:12:00 - [15]
 

There is also a topic in missions & complexes about this "feature" I am happy to see that at least 1 person has an actual Idea of how things work out here and doesn't just say botting. I'm sure if ccp was nice enough to take out the part of the equation that makes drone regions "harder" for the effort of creating isk by making a nice concord slave show up and do all of our hauling for us that'd be nice but since they're probably not going to be doing that we will always have to divide our income amongts groups of players to make it a livable region. it took 2x the effort to make the same isk as other area's and now it takes even more effort to try to come close. ... Also hunting for the hidden benefits of drone regions people have been praising.... are we getting a huge isk faucet in the next expansion or something?

Spc One
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.04 02:24:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Spc One on 04/02/2011 02:38:14


Well if i look at the faction drones on contract they're too expenssive.
800 mil for 5 'Augmented' Ogre II's is just too much.
That's 160mil per drone :(

I suggest that blue print for this drones changes so that it reduces material cost and increases runs.
For example one blueprint can have 500 runs.

This way price should go down for these drones and ppl will buy them more and this way these drones will become profitable again.
Either this or make these drones more like a fighters so that they'll warp back to you if you warp out or get disconnected and maybe increase damage and tracking speed of these drones.

Krutoj
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.04 02:35:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Spc One
Edited by: Spc One on 04/02/2011 02:30:58

Well if i look at the faction drones on contract they're too expenssive.
800 mil for 5 'Augmented' Ogre II's is just too much.
That's 160mil per drone :(

I suggest that blue print for this drones changes so that it reduced material cost and increases runs.
For example one blueprint can have 500 runs.

This way price should go down for these drones and ppl will buy them more and this way these drones will become profitable again.
Either this or make these drones more like a fighters so that they'll warp back to you if you warp out or get disconnected and maybe increase damage and tracking speed of these drones.


The reason why its soo expenssive is that in 3 years of living here I have only seen this bpc once. You mostly get (still very rarely) integrated bpcs which are wothless as t2 is cheaper and does more damage anyway. Augmented bpcs are very very rare and mostly drop for small/med drones. This is why Varag mentioned that they are worthless seeing as you would get that augmented ogre bpc once in a blue moon.

Spc One
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.04 02:42:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Krutoj
The reason why its soo expenssive is that in 3 years of living here I have only seen this bpc once. You mostly get (still very rarely) integrated bpcs which are wothless as t2 is cheaper and does more damage anyway. Augmented bpcs are very very rare and mostly drop for small/med drones. This is why Varag mentioned that they are worthless seeing as you would get that augmented ogre bpc once in a blue moon.

Well then ccp has a partial answer to that.
Increase augmented bpc drops like meta 8 stuff in 6/10.

Krutoj
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.04 02:52:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Spc One
Originally by: Krutoj
The reason why its soo expenssive is that in 3 years of living here I have only seen this bpc once. You mostly get (still very rarely) integrated bpcs which are wothless as t2 is cheaper and does more damage anyway. Augmented bpcs are very very rare and mostly drop for small/med drones. This is why Varag mentioned that they are worthless seeing as you would get that augmented ogre bpc once in a blue moon.

Well then ccp has a partial answer to that.
Increase augmented bpc drops like meta 8 stuff in 6/10.



Yeah, am not asking for CCP to super-charge DR space or do some kind of big boost, but atleast to do something, cause this is just redicilus.

Spc One
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.04 03:02:00 - [20]
 

Well to be honest augmented drones are no different than t-2.
The only thing is that they do split damage are slightly faster and have slightly more hp.
And that's it.
So it's not worth extra isk.
Ogre II - 680k isk
'Augmented' Ogre - 160mil.

That's just overkill for allmost no advantages over t-2 drones.

sue denim
Posted - 2011.02.04 03:07:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Spc One
Well to be honest augmented drones are no different than t-2.
The only thing is that they do split damage are slightly faster and have slightly more hp.
And that's it.
So it's not worth extra isk.
Ogre II - 680k isk
'Augmented' Ogre - 160mil.

That's just overkill for allmost no advantages over t-2 drones.



I've killed a few hundred sentient drone rats and never gotten a single bpc :< all i get is that worthless drone stuff.

chrisss0r
The Lowbirds
Posted - 2011.02.04 03:45:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Vara'g
Originally by: Dodgy Past
HACs don't make 60-80m an hour ratting.


Only if pilot has hands growing from the part of the body on which he is supposed to sit.

Let me show you on “fingers” as people say, how it is done.

Let us use HAC, zelot with t2 fit, and puls lasers, with AB, riged for cap, 2 heatsinks, tank, what ever fit is good for you. Get one + 5% damage implant for medium lasers for 18 mill, and +3% damage implant to all guns for 21 mill. And you are set.

Our targeted NPC are Sanshas, do to their vulnerability in EM, if you did not know.

Let’s take and use 70 mill per hour. That is about 40 dead BS. You are telling us, that a system with over 10 belts will not spawn 40 BS in an hour? If a system is farmed and belts are chained there will be much more than 40 BS.

Or you are telling us that a well trained pilot on a close up Zilot will take more that 1 minute to kill NPC BS ? Come on, get real. And if you take only t2 fitted Bidon or Paladin, it will take 3-4 strikes to nail 1 BS, so 22 seconds top.



maybe actually try some ratting before you insult us with your stinking pile of theorycrafting bull****.

The only people who say drone russians don't bot is drone russians themselves or complete tards.

you are doing it on a scale that's completely ridiculous and yes i'm mad cause it's killing the game

Mara Tessidar
Posted - 2011.02.04 03:57:00 - [23]
 

There are two things I've never seen out in 0.0:

1, people ratting in Zealots.

2, Russian macro ravens outside POS shields, because they always safe up when I enter system.

OutCast EG
Very Industrial Corp.
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.04 04:00:00 - [24]
 

bots aren't affected by this change. normal players are, however, so stfu about your botting sh*t.

Muchnails
Minmatar
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.04 04:04:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Vuk Lau
1st - its not YOUR region. Its the region where you live.

2nd - there are other advantages drone regions have over other regions

3rd - if you dont like the space where you live, move somewhere else


looks like answer from private of NC, not like answer from CSM

Fix Lag
Posted - 2011.02.04 04:07:00 - [26]
 

The NC doesn't have privates. They have "people." I understand that the serf mentality may persist in Russia but please don't make the mistake of assuming we're all as backwards as you.

Vara'g
Posted - 2011.02.04 04:26:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Mara Tessidar
There are two things I've never seen out in 0.0:

1, people ratting in Zealots.

2, Russian macro ravens outside POS shields, because they always safe up when I enter system.


Dude you missed the point, Zelot was an example, to show that even using zelot you can ret and make such isks, sure thing people use T3, Command or BS. However, younger players, with less skill do use cruisers, HAC, drakes, inters with assigned fitters from a friend to farm NPC, some youngsters even use assault frigs on AB to tank with speed.

What I am saying is just because you did not see it, it does not make it so, To pot it as in US people say “ just because you did not hear a tree fall in the forest, it is not the proof that they do not fall down” something along those line.

We gave you a constrictive explanation, description of how drones are farmed and clear cut comparison, and all you are able to vomit out is this nonsense based only on the perpetual observation that you did not see Zeltos farm belts. As if your not seeing zelots farming is a proof that we are wrong In our claims, and by that approach you seek to undermine and refute my description and a method of farming in drone regions. Get a grip

Vara'g
Posted - 2011.02.04 04:43:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: chrisss0r
Originally by: Vara'g
Originally by: Dodgy Past
HACs don't make 60-80m an hour ratting.


Only if pilot has hands growing from the part of the body on which he is supposed to sit.

Let me show you on “fingers” as people say, how it is done.

Let us use HAC, zelot with t2 fit, and puls lasers, with AB, riged for cap, 2 heatsinks, tank, what ever fit is good for you. Get one + 5% damage implant for medium lasers for 18 mill, and +3% damage implant to all guns for 21 mill. And you are set.

Our targeted NPC are Sanshas, do to their vulnerability in EM, if you did not know.

Let’s take and use 70 mill per hour. That is about 40 dead BS. You are telling us, that a system with over 10 belts will not spawn 40 BS in an hour? If a system is farmed and belts are chained there will be much more than 40 BS.

Or you are telling us that a well trained pilot on a close up Zilot will take more that 1 minute to kill NPC BS ? Come on, get real. And if you take only t2 fitted Bidon or Paladin, it will take 3-4 strikes to nail 1 BS, so 22 seconds top.



maybe actually try some ratting before you insult us with your stinking pile of theorycrafting bull****.

The only people who say drone russians don't bot is drone russians themselves or complete tards.

you are doing it on a scale that's completely ridiculous and yes i'm mad cause it's killing the game



People where is your consistency? First you say that we are all farmers and bots. Then you tell us that we know nothing about farming rats, and recommend us to go and practice, well get a point and hold on to it, do not change sides like Clinton Evil or Very Mad

I know very well how to ret and how to farm, and all the dynamic of game and its evolution. I am by EVE standards a dinosaur, I am from those times when Moa had over a dozen drones, when we laid mine fields, when Apoks were the mining barges, when 2 MWD worked simultaneously, when there were no mining barges or stack penalties. From the time when any notion of RED only existed in future plans, when there were less then 60 Russians in the game.

If you are so knowledgeable, give me some numbers, or at least some damn example.
Just saying that I am wrong, is not the proof nor it is an argument, but a simple childish emotional outburst. For after making any stamen, that is, if you are well rounded, you must give an example. Yes, yes, can you please elaborate more on how WE are, Russians, as you said ruining the game, give more- more details, ………………….. WE are awaiting your response!!!!!!!!!!


chrisss0r
The Lowbirds
Posted - 2011.02.04 04:48:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: chrisss0r on 04/02/2011 04:53:46
Edited by: chrisss0r on 04/02/2011 04:48:52
i get 20-25m ticks in my machariel doing sanctums with fighter support, max skills and 5% dmg implants so thats 60-75m an hour with 1500 dps.

Claiming a hac can do the same numbers is just ******ed. Using a ship no one in the whole wide world of eve uses to rat with is even better.

Chaining belts in stain (which is broken truesec) in a sleipnir (which is not a hac) i got around 18m ticks


how you are ruining the game? by running bots like crazy. you can spin it all you want. i roam your space erryday and the amount of obvious obvious macros is just unbelieveable. 1 raven 1 hauler with perfect response time 20 systems in a row in drone space? 3 tengus per system 23.5/7 again wih perfect response time in EVERY FUUCKING SYSTEM in angel space?

but clearly i'm just terrible at eve and all those guys are just people sharing their account with their 20 man families ratting it up

Vara'g
Posted - 2011.02.04 05:03:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Fix Lag
The NC doesn't have privates. They have "people." I understand that the serf mentality may persist in Russia but please don't make the mistake of assuming we're all as backwards as you.

First of all you show your ignorance by attributing individual’s characters onto the entire multitude of nations, that is, Russian is a brotherhood of nearly 120 ethnic groups, that have coexisted for centuries, unlike US that whipped out 22 mill of native population and 90% of natives in Alaska.

“Serf mentality” you got to be rely ignorant and brain washed--- here is a comparison, if Russian people have a serf mentality so are Europeans , Americans and even more so all others, why? Simply by reflection. US and Russian were in opposition for nearly 150 years, when nations oppose each other it is because they are of equal strength in all aspects, and so they consider each other a threat.

We don’t have to assume, well I don’t have to assume, I can see for myself that you are actually a backward serf and an ignorant nerd. As far as for other ethnicities or nations, there are smart and ignorant all over, but you don’t see us, Russians, attributing ignorance of one person as the defining factor in cognitive ability of the nation to whom he or she belongs.

Did you even get me, or should I go slower for you ? Laughing


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