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Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.02.02 20:13:00 - [1]
 

Much less risk, much easier to notice, etc. There will be a lower chance of it liquidating (if at all) and it won't be a scam because it will be run by CCP. There may be a few banks out there for the game that aren't scams, but they aren't in-ga,e, so thay are sometimes hard to use for some people, and they often end up liquidating, which is not a good thing.

Other possible features for the Official CCP EVE Bank (if it ever gets established):

- Built-in Stock Market
- Mini-Lottery

ISK Fairy
Posted - 2011.02.02 22:48:00 - [2]
 

so what you are saying is "I want free isk that is 100% guarnteed?"

Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.02.02 23:00:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: ISK Fairy
so what you are saying is "I want free isk that is 100% guarnteed?"


Not exactly. You still have to earn better interest rates and you need a good security status, and if you want a loan, you have to pay it back. If you want to give some feedback, you can contribute ideas and suggestions to make this idea better. Just a heads-up for anyone looking at this thread.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.02 23:06:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: ISK Fairy
so what you are saying is "I want free isk that is 100% guarnteed?"


To be honest, it's not a bad idea. It would seem horrible at first, basically amounting to additional reliable isk faucet. But it is really an isk sink, as people start to keep savings high long term in order receive interest. This money is essentially removed from the market. Some people already buy and hold plex due to this mentality.

Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.02.02 23:13:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: ISK Fairy
so what you are saying is "I want free isk that is 100% guarnteed?"


To be honest, it's not a bad idea. It would seem horrible at first, basically amounting to additional reliable isk faucet. But it is really an isk sink, as people start to keep savings high long term in order receive interest. This money is essentially removed from the market. Some people already buy and hold plex due to this mentality.


Yep. He has a point. The Bank will be much better than the other ISK Banks since some are usually a scam and the ones that aren't end up liquidating anyway, and new players often don't know about the banks. And a built-in stock market system and Mini-Lottery (it is very hard to win the lottery) will make this even more unlike other ISK banks.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.02.03 00:45:00 - [6]
 

This makes sense. Any advanced civilazation would have one and interest on loans made would have the effect of being an isk sink.

+1 for the idea

Dzrdya
Amarr
Evil Holdings
Posted - 2011.02.03 09:32:00 - [7]
 

What this could also entail is a higher risk/reward scenario, much like the banks of today.

Eve Bank
Simple interest pays directly into your wallet. Complex interest pays a portion between 50%-100% back into the savings to get interest back on. Locked means you cannot access your money whatsoever. After being locked, withdrawing any amout of this money will halve the applicable interest for the month. You can add any amount you like to this amount and take no hit on your interest.

Low Risk - The maximum investment is 1 billion isk. Each percentage of intrest gain the account 1 interest point. The account can have no more than 25 interest points spread across the account in any amount of investments.

Investments
Short Term 1: 1.5% Interest per 30 days, paid daily, simple interest, locked for 7 days, max 2 years.
Short Term 2: 3$ Interest per 30 days, paid daily, simple interest, locked for 14 days, max 2 years.
Medium Term 1: 5% Interest per 30 days, payed weekly, simple/complex interest, locked for 30 days, max 1 year.
Medium Term 2: 7.5% Interest per 30 days, payed weekly, simple/complex interest, locked for 60 days, max 1 year.
Long Term 1: 10% Interest per 30 days, paid monthly, simple/complex interest, locked for 120 days, max 6 months.
Long Term 2: 15% Interest per 30 days, paid monthly, simple/conplex interest, locked for 240 days, max 6 months.

Here is an example:
You have 500 million isk ready for an investment loan. You decide you want to put it into the Long Term 1 investment. You decide to have 50% of your interest to your wallet. Each month, the total increases as such.

Month 1: 520 mil in investment, 20 mil in wallet
Month 2: 550 mil in investment, 20 in wallet
Month 3: 570 mil in investment, 20 mil in wallet
Month 4: 600 mil in investment, 20 mil in wallet
Month 5: 630 mil in investment, 30 mil in wallet
Month 6: 670 mil in investment, 30 mil in wallet
*this is loosely rounded, too tired to make large calculations

So, as you see, with the complex interest, it will stack. And since no one person can put more than 1 billion at 25% interest, it stops any attraction for gold farmers due to the time required.

Also you have a medium risk investment option. These are much fast, and sometimes more lucrative. Maximum investment is 300 million isk.

Short Term - Locked 3 Days - 5% Interest per 3 days - 12.5% risk per day of loss - max 20 days
Medium Term - Locked 10 Days - 9% Interest per 3 days - 8.5% risk per day of loss - max 40 days
Long Term - Locked 30 Days - 18% Interest per 3 days - 4.5% risk per day of loss - max 60 days

Complex interest only, no withdrawals, no interest put into wallet until account is unlocked.

High Risk option - max 100 mil

Short Term - locked 12 Hours - 5% interest per hour - 40% of loss per hour - max 3 days
Medium Term - Locked 24 hours - 9% interest per 3 hours - 30% of loss per 3 hours - max 4 days
Long Term - Locked 48 Hours - 13% interest per 7 hours - 20% of loss per 7 hours - max 5 days

What do you guys think? lol

Kara Sharalien
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.02.03 11:55:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Belfelmalak
This makes sense. Any advanced civilazation would have one and interest on loans made would have the effect of being an isk sink.

+1 for the idea


I think if we have established anything over the past 3 or so years, its that any advanced civilization that wishes not to spectacularly collapse because of ****ery from one millionth of its population should avoid both banks and a stock market like the plague.


Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2011.02.03 13:18:00 - [9]
 

Banks don't magicly create money to give you as interest. Then need to invest your money in 'something'.

So this CCP run Bank would need to invest in something ingame. These investments they make could turn out to be scams....

Then all the people using the bank would feel that CCP owed them the money because CCPBank invested in a scam.

Then thses same people would be crying all over the forums and I would have to waste my lunchtime trying to avoid all the posts about this.

Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.02.03 13:52:00 - [10]
 

An in-game Banking Regulator... maybe. In game banks? Shouldn't be necessary.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.02.03 16:16:00 - [11]
 

for proper banks, there would have to be legal system. you really want lawyers in EVE? as if greedy merchants aren't enough...

Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.02.03 16:40:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jint Hikaru
Banks don't magicly create money to give you as interest. Then need to invest your money in 'something'. So this CCP run Bank would need to invest in something ingame. These investments they make could turn out to be scams. Then all the people using the bank would feel that CCP owed them the money because CCPBank invested in a scam. Then these same people would be crying all over the forums and I would have to waste my lunchtime trying to avoid all the posts about this.


Banks in Real-Life aren't scams. Besides, inflation can't be stopped, and since everyone who starts playing EVE starts out with some money, there will be more money in the system with each new player. My Idea:" No Lawyers, you need a good security status and a good standing with that bank, and you need to deposit some money to open an account. Plus, CCP could just give the bank a quick-start with some money, and when you got a loan, you would have to pay it back, and the longer you had it without out paying it back, the more you will have to pay back. And there will be people everywhere deposting and donating money. And another thing, it is possible to get money without having to use the "Entirely Player Run" economy, as you can kill rats, and do missions. Now stop being a troll andstart giving ideas on how to make my current idea better. The current EVE banks work in the same way as a real bank, and minus the stocks and standings and security status, the CCP Bank would work in much the same way.

Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.02.03 16:43:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
for proper banks, there would have to be legal system. you really want lawyers in EVE? as if greedy merchants aren't enough...


Then if we need a Legal System, we keep it simple. We can make it so that you can't rob banks. And we can also have it so that you still gain a slight amound of interest, as you can get money for things other than selling or trading or getting a player donation (for example: Killing Rats or running Missions, or the fact that you always start out with 5,000 ISK). And CCP can do whatever they want with the game, they made it, and they own it.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.02.03 17:23:00 - [14]
 

lets say, i have 10 bil ISK. how much interest i would get per month, with 5.0 security status and 8.0+ faction standing?

then, how would that benefit new players and old players?

Goloith
Posted - 2011.02.03 19:07:00 - [15]
 

I think that this would be a great idea for noobie people to get a good start.

Things to caution though:
-People using alts exploit the system. Would highly recommend that the bank is tied to the account, not the character.
-Extra isk in circulation - devaluation of isk
-other expoits


Dzrdya
Amarr
Evil Holdings
Posted - 2011.02.04 00:23:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Goloith
Things to caution though:
-People using alts exploit the system. Would highly recommend that the bank is tied to the account, not the character.
-Extra isk in circulation - devaluation of isk


With 1 billion at a time only able to be invested at a maximum of 25% interest over the entire of the account, it would stop exploitation.

With people locking up so much of thier wealth in the bank, I don't believe ISK would be devalued.

Also, you could introduce a stock market option with the existing NPC corps. Players and the banks could buy shares in the companies, and as the stock market ebbs and flows, so do the interest rates pertaining to the stock markets. Some markets would be volatile, high risk, and high reward - and others would be stable, low risk and low profit. It would also bring and entirely new career into the game - stock trading. Also increases the value of the isk when stocks go down, and devalues when they go up - allowing the value of isk to be micromanaged by CCP as a bonus.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.04 00:32:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 04/02/2011 00:32:28
Can CSM play a role to influence CCP to oversee some in-game banks so they are regulated? It is to make banking possible in the game. If a banker was to scam players, CCP can liquidate the banker and associated accounts of X money and run a compensation scheme.

Afterall, CCP is providing a game service, therefore, providing a financial services agency in-game is an addition to an in-game service that we are paying as our subscription.

I wonder why nobody has ever brought it up in the player to CCP meeting? We are not playing for free.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.02.04 02:32:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Kara Sharalien
Originally by: Belfelmalak
This makes sense. Any advanced civilazation would have one and interest on loans made would have the effect of being an isk sink.

+1 for the idea


I think if we have established anything over the past 3 or so years, its that any advanced civilization that wishes not to spectacularly collapse because of ****ery from one millionth of its population should avoid both banks and a stock market like the plague.





Yeah, thats pretty much how Karl Marx felt.

A Banking system is needed in a capitolistic society. They may not be perfect but they are still necessary.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.02.04 02:37:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Goloith
I think that this would be a great idea for noobie people to get a good start.

Things to caution though:
-People using alts exploit the system. Would highly recommend that the bank is tied to the account, not the character.
-Extra isk in circulation - devaluation of isk
-other expoits




This is a serious worry. Using alts to take out loans that are never repaid would cause massive problems. This issue needs to be solved before it could ever take affect. One possible solution is that a plex or gtc as collatoral for players with less then say a year in game. Charactors should not be able to be sold as long as their is an outstanding debt etc...

Nypheas Azurai
Posted - 2011.02.04 03:07:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Nypheas Azurai on 04/02/2011 03:09:28

I already proposed a much in-depth version here:

Credit System

And no, new players cannot abuse the system by taking out loans, because much like an IRL 'newbie' you aren't going to qualify for much.

Quote:
The EVE economy would be enriched by a line of credit system, where players may request ISK on loan modeled after real-life credit systems.

Applying for a loan:
Loan applications can be accessed via any station with a "Loan Office". Applications are processed immediately and the loan granted based on various factors.

Factors affecting loans:
> player standing with loaning corporation
> player "credit score" from previous loans (the more ISK successfully loaned, the better the score)
> player security status
> etc

Potential Skills:
> Line of Credit - each level raises the maximum loan amount by X%
> Debt Consolidation - each level allows one extra active loan.
> Loan Officer - the first level allows placing of a loan application within the same system, each subsequent level extends this range [...] anywhere within the current region.
> Compound interest - skill at negotiating interest rates, each level reduces flat interest paid on a loan by X% and compound interest by Y%.
> etc, generally skills can be added to control factors such as loan amount, number, duration, and so forth.
> any other Trade/Social skills such as Negotiations or Connections can be made to have impact on the loan process.

Interest:
A flat interest rate is charged (based on standing and credit score) no matter how brief the loan; followed by a compound interest rate that is charged (also based on standing/score) per extra day the loan is active.

Paying off a loan:
A player may pay off an active loan anywhere at anytime, via the "Loans" tab in Wallet.

Regulations:
> The maximum loan amount cannot exceed 2x the amount in the player's current balance
> Loans cannot be applied for/trained on trial accounts.
> Players who fail to pay a loan before it's expiry date are subject to be penalized at the discretion of the lending corporation. This can be anywhere from loss of standing, to going into negative balance, even to gaining kill rights.

NPC controlled corporations might simply deduct from a player's balance, and if requiring, into negative balance. Alternatively certain station assets can be "frozen" until the loan is payed off.

> Certain "Loan Shark" corporations may choose to offer lucrative or more attractive loans to players willing to play high stakes. For example, the penalty for letting a loan expire in these cases might include kill rights. Be warned!

Interface:
> Applying for a loan initially is done through the Station services at participating stations.
> Active (and previous) Loans can be accessed via the "Loans" tab in Wallet.
> Depending on certain skills, players may also apply for and receive a loan remotely.
> Loans will be payed off through the "Loans" tab.

Protection:
> limitations on loan amounts and standing guarantees players cannot abuse the system, and that loans are proportional to the player's experience/level so that debts are not insurmountable

The idea stems largely from having to pass on so many otherwise great opportunities (mainly in courier contracts or market sales) simply because a player is shy by often just a few ISK here and there. Rather than have them go off and grind some completely unrelated task just to fund their primary activities (or worse, RMT), they can apply for a loan and continue to do what they are trained for (and likely most enjoy). It also stems from recently finding out from another player that negative balances are possible and do occur within EVE, so why not have a proper interface surrounding them.

A credit system opens up a whole new world for the EVE economy and helps it model ever more closely a complete and closed ecosystem.

Dzrdya
Amarr
Evil Holdings
Posted - 2011.02.04 03:12:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
This is a serious worry. Using alts to take out loans that are never repaid would cause massive problems. This issue needs to be solved before it could ever take affect. One possible solution is that a plex or gtc as collatoral for players with less then say a year in game. Charactors should not be able to be sold as long as their is an outstanding debt etc...


You could just make it that the loans repayments automatically come out of the wallet of all characters on the account when they are very late. It will take them down to 0 ISK constantly when due until fully repaid. And a character cannot be transferred until all debts are payed off. If, finally the debts are no paid, and loans are not paid, the bank can sieze items and sell them via contracts in Jita, Dodixie and Amarr to recover costs. This would stop abuse, if you can imagine losing something like a faction fit Drake to a contract. These items can be taken from any character on the account.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.02.04 04:22:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Dzrdya
Quote:
This is a serious worry. Using alts to take out loans that are never repaid would cause massive problems. This issue needs to be solved before it could ever take affect. One possible solution is that a plex or gtc as collatoral for players with less then say a year in game. Charactors should not be able to be sold as long as their is an outstanding debt etc...


You could just make it that the loans repayments automatically come out of the wallet of all characters on the account when they are very late. It will take them down to 0 ISK constantly when due until fully repaid. And a character cannot be transferred until all debts are payed off. If, finally the debts are no paid, and loans are not paid, the bank can sieze items and sell them via contracts in Jita, Dodixie and Amarr to recover costs. This would stop abuse, if you can imagine losing something like a faction fit Drake to a contract. These items can be taken from any character on the account.



Supported. I like the idea.

Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.02.05 07:02:00 - [23]
 

Now we just need to make sure people don't try to steal from or abuse the Bank system. I have an idea: CONCORD will be involved. Also, your interest rate can change depending on your security status, and there is always more ISK geting pumped into the system: Missions, bounty rewards from killing Rats and Drones, and of course, who can forget new players? For each player that joins, 5000 extra ISK gets pumped into the economy. There is no way to make EVE perfect, but there are ways to make it better.And of course, each bank will have some extra money to start off. And money often gets lost to paying for Insurance and Repairs, as well as for paying to communicate with somebody.

Commander Funyoun
Posted - 2011.02.05 07:14:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jint Hikaru
Banks don't magicly create money to give you as interest. Then need to invest your money in 'something'.

So this CCP run Bank would need to invest in something ingame. These investments they make could turn out to be scams....

Then all the people using the bank would feel that CCP owed them the money because CCPBank invested in a scam.

Then thses same people would be crying all over the forums and I would have to waste my lunchtime trying to avoid all the posts about this.


Ok make it so that each Corporation has an option to put there Corp on the market. Just like RL companies do. whatever the Corp wallet shows it has in it will determine the net worth of that Corp. That is called STOCK. Banks do not invest in stock. People use the bank to invest in stock themselves through the bank.


 

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