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blankseplocked its all about play style and play time in High Sec.
 
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dorfsorc
Posted - 2011.02.02 17:26:00 - [1]
 

The Incursion has offered some new and exciting content in an MMO way not seen before. Its big, its rewarding, it takes time and coordination.

Although many of us lag out and crash to desktop during these fights (no compensation for lost ships) that will surely be fixed over time.

For those who just want to log in and play for an hour or so, then mining, missioning, etc are still your game.

On behalf of a number of high sec mission runners, we regret that there isnt more content for solo and small group play, we also object to the removal of lvl 5 missions from random high sec assignment. That was the only content that matched our play style.

Please dont start another risk / reward bombardment or comment on how carebears are needed to help populate low sec space. I am just stating a fact. Some of us like to play in short bursts relatively risk free for FUN.

Others should be talking to their corpmates about alliances and working on the Incursion stuff. lets keep high sec fun and entertaining.
the DORF

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.02 17:27:00 - [2]
 

You really needed the attention provided by a new thread?

I'll start I guess.

Why should the final tier of missions be accessible in high security space?

Jokus Balim
Minmatar
Capital Destruction
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2011.02.02 18:32:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Jokus Balim on 02/02/2011 18:32:57
Originally by: dorfsorc
Please dont start another risk / reward bombardment or comment on how carebears are needed to help populate low sec space. I am just stating a fact. Some of us like to play in short bursts relatively risk free for FUN.


You might not want the bombardement, but that's exactly the reason, why CCP removed them from highsec. Make them more profitable and at the same time less accessible, cause they were far less profitable for the effort needed, when you compared them to level 4 in those days. Miners could argue similarly: "end game" mining works best in hidden belts, why oh why are there none in highsec where we can mine them in short bursts relatively risk free for FUN. (Yes, there are people who think mining is fun *points at Chribba*)

Quote:
lets keep high sec fun and entertaining.
the DORF


Highsec is fun and entertaining, otherwise it would be less populated and subscriber numbers would drop like a stone. The trend is pretty much the opposite and some quarterly economical newsletter said that the majority people live in highsec.

dorfsorc
Posted - 2011.02.02 18:35:00 - [4]
 

final tier? so CCP has no plans of developing escalating content for pilots that after years of play have exceptional skills?

the purpose of the thread is to have a dialogue about gameplay in high sec, not more bashing from low sec players about how that is the only place anyone should desire to go for extended game play.

Lets try to avoid the flame wars and just talk about content in high sec please.

the DORF

Sali Macbeth
Posted - 2011.02.02 18:51:00 - [5]
 

Eve does seem to constantly improve the options for group play while hindering or limiting the options for solo play.

Maybe the focus doesn't have to be on improving hi sec, but instead finding a way to let the solo player partake in more of the Eve universe with a bit more success.

I'm certainly not against new hi sec missions, amd welcome any new content that isn't mandatory.

However it has occurred to me that if we could open up the rest of the universe to the solo player as a more viable lifestyle then this is good re-use.

Solo Buff Enclosed

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.02 18:51:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: dorfsorc



Lets try to avoid the flame wars and just talk about content in high sec please.

the DORF


he said as he assumed anyone objecting to lvl 5s in high sec is a low sec dweller Rolling Eyes

hint: The last time I left high sec was for that Live event right before last patch, and before that, only to finish escalations.

Seriously this thread is redundant. Nice try though

dorfsorc
Posted - 2011.02.02 19:08:00 - [7]
 

apologies for making assumptions, but i am still wondering why there isnt escalating content for high sec players that doesnt involve extended hours of play and large fleets. Its a legitimate question and this thread was intended for that dialogue.

as a high sec player, dont you want more missions? even if lvl 4? add some twists to make them more challenging as our skill sets continue to improve. What do you propose for pilots with all skills pushed to lvl 5 other than doing the same old missions in lesser ships?

What is a good play objective for a couple of pilots in golems and snakes ?

would love some discussion to keep semi casual players interested after a couple of years of play.
the DORF

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.02 19:18:00 - [8]
 

Honestly, my biggest gripe with the current mission system is the progression of ship types with mission levels.

In other words, lvl 1 (frig/destroyer), lvl 2 (cruiser), lvl 3 (battlecruiser), lvl 4 (battleship). Yes there is some room for T2/T3/faction to allow you to use lower class ships to do the job, but the missions are geared all wrong.

I was really hoping that with the pirate epic arcs and the "speed" missions we'd see some development in this area. Perhaps a lvl 4 that only allows frigates and actually requires some manual flying to complete the job.

This is the sort of boost mission running needs, i.e. smarter AI and more diverse missions with more ship restrictions.

leavcraft
Posted - 2011.02.02 19:33:00 - [9]
 

It will be another 6 months before i finish researching my charon bp's to the level I want. Along with other production projects i like to do missions. I would welcome more missions, regardless of level. I fly a golum and all my skills that I need for it are maxed so most lvl 4 missions are pretty easy now.
I usually stay on for a couple of hours between production, research, planet stuff, and missions, so I would welcome anything that adds some fun during my wait periods for various timers.

Jokus Balim
Minmatar
Capital Destruction
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2011.02.02 19:41:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Jokus Balim on 02/02/2011 19:46:08
EVE has lots of content, even of the escalating type. Some is even called escalation Wink And there is a lot of content for casual players.

The problem here is not that there isn't enough content, but that you decided to focus on a very small part of the content (EVE -> PvE -> Missions -> Standard, maybe with Salvaging, to keep within the picture of the flowchart).

If you are not willing to get into the great diversity of other occupations, you should consider that you played the game and actually reached the finish line for that content. That happens in every game. It just takes especially long in EVE compared to many other games, cause there is (nearly) always another thing to do. Compare it to any other MMO on the market. You are watch at different content in all those WoW clones, but stick basically to one activity / occupation.

EVE opens new possibilities for players not in the same way like those WoW-like games. There you get a new dungeon. Better equipment. And another new dungeon. And more better equipment. And more dungeons. And... well, we all know what comes next. This should not be an Azeroth-that-way-rant. I actually played WoW and had fun.

But EVE follows a different paradigm. Instead of sticking to one occupation, you change it and do something totally different. Even as casual player. It's the sandbox thing, that they are always talking about. I did missions. And exploration. And T2 production. And mining. And missions again. And trading. No, not trading. PI. 0.0 warfare. Factional warfare... and so on. From time to time as an casual player and from time to time as an more intensive player.

If that's not your thing, you should really consider, if you reached all goals in your version of EVE and move along. And I don't mean that as a can-I-haz-your-stuff-rant.

Dr Nefarius
Posted - 2011.02.02 19:41:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: dorfsorc

What do you propose for pilots with all skills pushed to lvl 5 other than doing the same old missions in lesser ships?




Maybe do something else besides missions?

And no, beeing a casual player doesn not mean anything outside highsec is impossible. And if you want more challenging (and not just higher rewards in a risk-free environment), then just join an incursion PUG. I hear they are pretty challenging.

And if you don't like incursion? Do some time in 0.0/wormholes. Possibly solo with t3 ships, and if you have an alt even easier. No you don't need to dock in 0.0, just log off in space, and then you can log in back in space a couple weeks later for more casual gaming.

And as somone else has pointed out, highsec is already full of pilots. If highsec was all crap, people wouldn't be crowding there.

Originally by: dorfsorc

What is a good play objective for a couple of pilots in golems and snakes ?



Maybe sell those ships and get cheaper ones and have more fun in lowsec/0.0 ?
Join faction warfare or RVB for some quick action when you log in?
Or.... you could stay in highsec and grind lvl 4 missions until the server shuts down in 2018.

My advice is just try some other stuff.

Originally by: dorfsorc

Please dont start another risk / reward bombardment or comment.....



I'm afraid game balance is relevant in most areas of eve.

leavcraft
Posted - 2011.02.02 20:16:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jokus Balim
Edited by: Jokus Balim on 02/02/2011 19:46:08
EVE has lots of content, even of the escalating type. Some is even called escalation Wink And there is a lot of content for casual players.

The problem here is not that there isn't enough content, but that you decided to focus on a very small part of the content (EVE -> PvE -> Missions -> Standard, maybe with Salvaging, to keep within the picture of the flowchart).

If you are not willing to get into the great diversity of other occupations, you should consider that you played the game and actually reached the finish line for that content. That happens in every game. It just takes especially long in EVE compared to many other games, cause there is (nearly) always another thing to do. Compare it to any other MMO on the market. You are watch at different content in all those WoW clones, but stick basically to one activity / occupation.

EVE opens new possibilities for players not in the same way like those WoW-like games. There you get a new dungeon. Better equipment. And another new dungeon. And more better equipment. And more dungeons. And... well, we all know what comes next. This should not be an Azeroth-that-way-rant. I actually played WoW and had fun.

But EVE follows a different paradigm. Instead of sticking to one occupation, you change it and do something totally different. Even as casual player. It's the sandbox thing, that they are always talking about. I did missions. And exploration. And T2 production. And mining. And missions again. And trading. No, not trading. PI. 0.0 warfare. Factional warfare... and so on. From time to time as an casual player and from time to time as an more intensive player.

If that's not your thing, you should really consider, if you reached all goals in your version of EVE and move along. And I don't mean that as a can-I-haz-your-stuff-rant.


thanks for the best post i have seen in days. well spoken, non-judgemental, and honest. I will likely stay and revamp my missioning approach but not stray too far from my production / research base.
regards,
leav

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.02.03 06:13:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: dorfsorc
On behalf of a number of high sec mission runners, we regret that there isnt more content for solo and small group play, we also object to the removal of lvl 5 missions from random high sec assignment.


I'm a hisec carebear, and you don't speak for me. There is more than enough content to keep me busy in hisec when I'm at the keyboard.

If only I didn't need to cook dinner or pay attention to my other half when we're planning meals/shopping/weekend or simply laughing at image macro threads; I'd be a nullsec carebear too!

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.02.03 07:16:00 - [14]
 

First off, don't complain about not getting reimbursed for ship losses due to your internet/computer not being able to handle that many people on grid. I've been to 5 different mothership sites since incursions went live and I've not had lag issue even once, so the problem is not at CCP's end. How exactly you think CCP is goign to fix YOUR computer is beyond me.

Now, out of curiosity, why exactly is the idea of running level 4s in lesser ships so unappealing? If the issue at hand is a lack of a challenge, then would this not scratch that itch? The only notable difference between doing a lvl 5 and doing lvl 4s in smaller ships is the reward, which is the main problem people who don't spend all their time in highsec have a problem with. If CCP were to introduce lvl 5s in highsec, but give them the same payouts in LP as lvl 4s, do you think people would run them? Unlikely. They'd do 1 or 2, realize that aside from either bringing a logi alt/friend or using a passive tanked ship, there really isn't any challenge to running lvl 5s. As I pointed out in the other thread, you can do them in a 150mil ishtar.


As far as playing relatively risk free in short bursts for FUN, like I said, what makes lvl 5s so different than lvl 4s in smaller ships?

Dolemite2K
Gallente
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2011.02.03 11:00:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Dolemite2K on 03/02/2011 11:03:45
Low sec being super dangerous is a myth, it's mostly empty. Some of the border systems to high sec are dangerous but get a few jump away from that and it's usually fairly quite and any danger can be offset by joining a local intel channel (in most low sec regions the residents will set these up to track hostiles and neutrals they don't know) and watching local. There plenty of content both inn and out of high sec for even the most casual player to take part inn you just got to be willing to leave your comfort zone and adapt.

Iceni
Posted - 2011.02.03 22:10:00 - [16]
 

Whilst I agree with comments already made, the OP does have a point. Missions are the best pew pew for people with just an hour or two available, and there's a lot of us given the player numbers in some systems.

More varied mission content would please a lot of players. It would be a relatively small investment of time and resources for CCP to plump up the L4 mission menu.

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.03 22:31:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Iceni
Whilst I agree with comments already made, the OP does have a point. Missions are the best pew pew for people with just an hour or two available, and there's a lot of us given the player numbers in some systems.

More varied mission content would please a lot of players. It would be a relatively small investment of time and resources for CCP to plump up the L4 mission menu.


They just added a bunch of lvl 4 missions...

laysha
Amarr
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2011.02.03 22:53:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Iceni
Whilst I agree with comments already made, the OP does have a point. Missions are the best pew pew for people with just an hour or two available, and there's a lot of us given the player numbers in some systems.

More varied mission content would please a lot of players. It would be a relatively small investment of time and resources for CCP to plump up the L4 mission menu.


Limited time doesn't mean you have to stay in high sec, while i agree that PVE needs more varied content that's not a high sec problem, it's a problem with PVE in general.

dorfsorc
Posted - 2011.02.03 23:15:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Cambarus
First off, don't complain about not getting reimbursed for ship losses due to your internet/computer not being able to handle that many people on grid. I've been to 5 different mothership sites since incursions went live and I've not had lag issue even once, so the problem is not at CCP's end. How exactly you think CCP is goign to fix YOUR computer is beyond me.

none of us that are having lag and crash issues now had them before the Incursion release, and it isnt just in massed fleets. Check out the tech forums and you will see this is a fairly widespread issue of ctd and lagouts. My puter isnt that old and my vid card is above average.


Now, out of curiosity, why exactly is the idea of running level 4s in lesser ships so unappealing? If the issue at hand is a lack of a challenge, then would this not scratch that itch? The only notable difference between doing a lvl 5 and doing lvl 4s in smaller ships is the reward, which is the main problem people who don't spend all their time in highsec have a problem with. If CCP were to introduce lvl 5s in highsec, but give them the same payouts in LP as lvl 4s, do you think people would run them? Unlikely. They'd do 1 or 2, realize that aside from either bringing a logi alt/friend or using a passive tanked ship, there really isn't any challenge to running lvl 5s. As I pointed out in the other thread, you can do them in a 150mil ishtar.

running level 4's that we have done over and over in lesser ships does add a challenge, but we know those missions so well now, that it becomes more of a mechanical execise than a real change. But it is one way to keep our mission activity somewhat fresh. And yes, we would keep running level 5's to death, just as we have done for the last 2 years in level 4's


As far as playing relatively risk free in short bursts for FUN, like I said, what makes lvl 5s so different than lvl 4s in smaller ships?
the level 5's are still relatively new to some of us and their complexity with more waves and more ships makes them interesting, plus the added factor of neutralizers, changes our fits.

Not sure if the Dorf will continue in EVE or not, but it has been fun for the last two years, so will have to consider all that has been written here.
the DORF

dorfsorc
Posted - 2011.02.04 00:09:00 - [20]
 

i tried something different today, cosmos missions in friggi. one sent me to adjacent low sec space for a courier delivery. I sent a scout through the gate and found nothing. put the badger through with the mission cargo and was killed and podded at the delivery station. much fun. what sort of jerk finds it amusing to pod kill a defenseless cargo ship carrying nonvaluable materials for a faction mission?
Any wonder we carebears find no value in entering low sec?

Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.04 07:23:00 - [21]
 

level 5 wouldnt be the same reward as level 4s nor should they be. They should be just like any other mission tier nerf the higher the sec status but still be better than Lvl4. From an economic standpoint it may be argued but from a silly and rather ignorant standpoint that there is already enough to do in highsec and carebears suck well... stupid is as stupid says.

Incursions should be moved to 0.0 only, that way dumb people will feel elite.

Potato IQ
Posted - 2011.02.04 08:46:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Cambarus

If CCP were to introduce lvl 5s in highsec, but give them the same payouts in LP as lvl 4s



This would be my solution, although likely make a high lvl agent in a 0.5 system double that of the lvl 4 equivalent so the dual boxer getís similar reward split as a solo lvl 4 runner. This also gives carebear corp fleets an idea on how they work so they will likely feel more confident venturing out of high for the as is greater rewards. Iím sure the unknown element attached to lvl 5ís is a contributing factor to less pilots trying them, not just the fear of getting popped as soon as they venture beyond high sec

So that would solve the greater challenge the high sec dweller requests without making it a replacement for the lvl 4 faucet. But wait. Is that further forum b!tching because the lvl 5 missions are too hard for the isk being paid out? One cannot win. I would still add the above though as would add an extra element of interest for the casual/cautious pilot

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.02.04 08:51:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: dorfsorc
i tried something different today, cosmos missions in friggi. one sent me to adjacent low sec space for a courier delivery. I sent a scout through the gate and found nothing. put the badger through with the mission cargo and was killed and podded at the delivery station. much fun. what sort of jerk finds it amusing to pod kill a defenseless cargo ship carrying nonvaluable materials for a faction mission?
Any wonder we carebears find no value in entering low sec?


How do you get killed at the deliverystation? When arriving you should be able to dock immediatly. When you are leaving the station you should use an insta-undock. (Yes, make them with your scout)

If you get killed while leaving the deliverystation, no harm done, the mission is complete anyway and a badger doesn't cost a lot.

Podded? How the hell did you get podded in lowsec? When all is lost, just spamm the warp button and warp to a celestial.


The problem wasn't lowsec, it was how you tried to handle it!

Dolemite2K
Gallente
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2011.02.04 08:52:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Spineker
level 5 wouldnt be the same reward as level 4s nor should they be. They should be just like any other mission tier nerf the higher the sec status but still be better than Lvl4. From an economic standpoint it may be argued but from a silly and rather ignorant standpoint that there is already enough to do in highsec and carebears suck well... stupid is as stupid says.

Incursions should be moved to 0.0 only, that way dumb people will feel elite.



It's ironic that your failure to adapt to the game makes people who can stupid in your eyes Laughing

Dolemite2K
Gallente
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2011.02.04 09:08:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: dorfsorc
i tried something different today, cosmos missions in friggi. one sent me to adjacent low sec space for a courier delivery. I sent a scout through the gate and found nothing. put the badger through with the mission cargo and was killed and podded at the delivery station. much fun. what sort of jerk finds it amusing to pod kill a defenseless cargo ship carrying nonvaluable materials for a faction mission?
Any wonder we carebears find no value in entering low sec?


I'm gonna go ahead and call shennanigans here, if you're going to get killed in your little sob story at least make it believable like at the jump inn or undocking where it's actually possible to kill something that doesn't have a death wish and just sits there and waits to die.

Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.02.04 09:57:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: dorfsorc
The Incursion has offered some new and exciting content in an MMO way not seen before.

I've seen in in wow and EQ
Raiding and group pve content has been around for ages.

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.04 12:46:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: dorfsorc
what sort of jerk finds it amusing to pod kill a defenseless cargo ship carrying nonvaluable materials for a faction mission?


What sort of idiot gets pod killed in low sec?

Quote:

Any wonder we carebears find no value in entering low sec?


There are actually plenty of carebears in low sec. You simply happen to fall into the group that would rather blame the game/players/mechanics than take it upon yourself to learn and adapt to the potential hostilities of low sec.

dorfsorc
Posted - 2011.02.04 21:01:00 - [28]
 

With no real in game training guide for dealing with low sec gate and station campers, it is pretty unrealistic that a typical pve high sec player would do well on entering low sec space. I found it interesting that I was attacked simply because i was there, not because my ship was valuable or had any meaningful reward for the attacker. Since I do not understand that play style, I am totally unprepared for it.

I did open a dialogue with the attacker who explained his personal philosophy on the attack. Since I was in a cargo ship, i might have had valuable cargo. The podding after the kill is just their way. I somehow thought they would have scanned for cargo or something like that, but no. I did read the thread on low sec fits for jumping safely. Lots of new skills for me, but it still didnt explain how I can safely execute courier missions there. If there is a guide somewhere for those activities, it would be much appreciated, rather than be called stupid because I dont understand some aspects of the game play.
the DORF

Jethred
Posted - 2011.02.04 23:48:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: dorfsorc
With no real in game training guide for dealing with low sec gate and station campers, it is pretty unrealistic that a typical pve high sec player would do well on entering low sec space. I found it interesting that I was attacked simply because i was there, not because my ship was valuable or had any meaningful reward for the attacker. Since I do not understand that play style, I am totally unprepared for it.



First post <flame on>...

This I don't get, you are a high level mission runner, so I'm going to presuppose you have read oh say Eve Survival for mission reports. You're posting in the Eve forums, but you're also claiming there are no resources to train/educate you about how to operate in different areas or aspects of the game?

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.02.05 00:11:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Dolemite2K
Originally by: dorfsorc
i tried something different today, cosmos missions in friggi. one sent me to adjacent low sec space for a courier delivery. I sent a scout through the gate and found nothing. put the badger through with the mission cargo and was killed and podded at the delivery station. much fun. what sort of jerk finds it amusing to pod kill a defenseless cargo ship carrying nonvaluable materials for a faction mission?
Any wonder we carebears find no value in entering low sec?


I'm gonna go ahead and call shennanigans here, if you're going to get killed in your little sob story at least make it believable like at the jump inn or undocking where it's actually possible to kill something that doesn't have a death wish and just sits there and waits to die.


I found the killmail. No mission materials in cargohold, so I guess he dropped it off. Looks like he dropped about 1.5 mil isk in modules and lost about 5-7 mil overall on his ship plus implants. A decent kill for a solo pie.


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