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Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2011.02.02 15:57:00 - [1]
 

As we all know the risk to reward ratio is fairly poor in low sec so if you aren't directly seeking PvP it is generally a place to avoid. Now raising bounties in low sec really didn't work because it only encouraged growth among pirate populations.

Most pirates I know though do not like mining, so if the asteroid fields were buffed to be very similar to that of 0.0 there would be an influx of industrialists as the pay out would be more likely be worth the risk. This would bring more people for pirates to shoot into low sec so it would likely be a win win situation for carebears and pirates a like.

The one downside is the potential to drive the price of high end mineral down, but I suspect it would not be that bad as the risk is still quite high.

shady trader
Posted - 2011.02.02 18:50:00 - [2]
 

The problem with this idea is simple.

With claimed 0.0 its actually safer since your alliance has a stake in stopped non alliance members form entering/staying in their space. So you don't get many pirates and advanced warning of incoming attackers. You also have the advantage of industrial upgrades to give you better belts and sites to mine.

So if you want to mine high ends it makes more sense to skip low sec and go 0.0


Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.02.03 07:23:00 - [3]
 

As long as your being there is announced on the map and in local the only thing that better roid fields will be is bait.

The only way to increase the low and null sec population is to get rid of those features and make the hunter go out and actively look instead of just checking the system data.

Once that is done though, many more players will make the transition because they will realise that they can actually mine or rat in those systems without having the effect of ringing the dinner bell for the pirates who hunt there.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.03 08:29:00 - [4]
 

To get to 0.0 you have to pass through low sec, I always looked at it a sort of a no mans land, not meant to be really desirable real-estate.


Mograph
Caldari
SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs
Posted - 2011.02.03 08:57:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Barbara Nichole
To get to 0.0 you have to pass through low sec, I always looked at it a sort of a no mans land, not meant to be really desirable real-estate.




no you dont.

there are many high sec entries to 0.0, usually camped by lots of bubbles and idiots

Cycotic Maniac
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.02.03 09:31:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Cycotic Maniac on 03/02/2011 09:33:27
Improving Low sec is really easy but CCP dont want to it....

- Give 1.5 mil bounties to low sec belts
- Give high end mining minerals (large quantities so they can be profitable if guard squad is present)
- Also give research slots to low sec stations
- Increase PI income in low sec
- Lower tax fees in stations so we can have Low sec trading hub
- Allow Bomb usage in low sec (Stealth Bombers)
- Rework Bounty system, or remove it
- Make complete new set of Lvl 4 courier missions trough low sec.
- Rework Faction Warfare
- Rework Cosmos missions for low sec!!!!!!
- Increase gas clouds in low sec to advertise bigger drug production
- ALLOW TITAN DD (with longer jump out timers) but to prevent pirating/camping in caps

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2011.02.03 19:45:00 - [7]
 

We have boosted low sec a few times before, ultimately what we are facing is psychology or "the wall". The possibility of risk introduces a barrier that is very hard to break down. Most people focus on the pain of loss, though the true pain of loss for any player is the time lost over the assets lost. Whether you have been playing the game for days or years, the time to replace your ship is fairly key to getting back running after being killed and this is fairly constant regardless of your "power".

At the same time, we have somewhat of a catch 22 since as ebil pirates become more successful as predators, they drive away their prey ending up in you fighting for whatever unfortunate soul dare jumps "the wall". In short, boosting rewards rarely works unless it was very high, instead what should be done is create different activities in each zone so it is a different rather than comparative decision.

Buffing the roids is also a catch 22, more roids = more potential supply = price decrease. You might notice nocxium is fast becoming valuable and this comes from ores largely dominant in low sec. This was done by decreasing supply from other sources so there isnt always a need to increase supply (though that seems obvious to give more, although here, less=more).

Koshiko Murakami
Posted - 2011.02.03 20:50:00 - [8]
 

Lots of interesting points in Chronitis' post, especially concerning the psychological wall of loss. The one counterpoint I'd like to offer though is that another barrier is the effort of organization, which is not psychological so much as :effort:. At some point the extra time spent securing a corner of space (or hiding) outweighs the extra isk/hour. This is pretty clearly happening in lowsec.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.02.03 21:08:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
...

And that is why you have so far failed at making Low worth the bother .. you are thinking inside the confines of the little box called high-sec.
What you should do instead is mimic null with more goals defined by player actions. Make Low the seedy underbelly of the cluster, you have already taken the first steps by having dope production there but it could be so much more.

FW proved that people are more than willing to move to Low if they know they have something to pass the time that does not involve killing brain-cells.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.03 21:38:00 - [10]
 

If people didn't have level 4s in high sec, more people would go to either 0.0 or low sec.

When you can make 70 mil an hour in high sec, there's just no reason to bother with anything else. At very least, level 4s in high sec shouldn't pay more than 20 mil an hour.

When life is just too sweet and easy in high sec, even significant reward adjustments to low sec won't be noticed by many.

Sheynan
Posted - 2011.02.03 21:43:00 - [11]
 

Naah, most of them will then start doing lvl3s in high-sec, rather than going to low-sec.


I think it more important for lowsec culture to create incentives not to go GCC on every occasion, so a working bounty-system and maybe stuff like tradeable killrights.



Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.03 21:45:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
...

And that is why you have so far failed at making Low worth the bother .. you are thinking inside the confines of the little box called high-sec.
What you should do instead is mimic null with more goals defined by player actions. Make Low the seedy underbelly of the cluster, you have already taken the first steps by having dope production there but it could be so much more.

FW proved that people are more than willing to move to Low if they know they have something to pass the time that does not involve killing brain-cells.


Imagine if they fixed FW to make it more interesting, allowed alliances to participate, and even had a mechanism where those in FW could "help administer" and thus at least partially control the lowsec space of their faction?

You bring up a good point though in the mistake of comparing lowsec to highsec. Lowsec should instead be compared to 0.0 with respect to balance. Lowsec has every disadvantage of 0.0 with none of it's advantages. It is the most dangerous space of the three main types by far, as it's where most pirates (actually gankers) roam and camp choke points (highsec to lowsec and nullsec to lowsec gates). I'd argue that there should be MORE isk to make in lowsec than highsec or 0.0 to encourage people to be there in the first place.



cytheras wrath
Posted - 2011.02.03 22:06:00 - [13]
 

why not make low sec redefined as a space where concord defends the gates, however because of the low numbers of stations concord ships, the space however is quite dangerous.

this prevents gate camps from happening in low-sec, however makes asteroid belts dangerous. as a industrial character, the issue we face with low sec is not that there are pirates, but if we take a orca or a slow warping ship, its easily tackled and pop'd when we make the jump. yes it can be countered with a scout, but that's "the wall" we face... make concord protect the gates, so we can get our expensive stuff out there safely, but risk it when we take it to belts sounds more like low sec, then gate camping pirates.

since we cant actually claim low sec as sov for alliances, maybe they can be occupied by the empire that "claimed" it by protecting the gates at-least. or just make low sec systems "rent-able" by the empires where they act like null sec, except that you pay the empire to place special things that you could only place in null sec after a few weeks of owning. maybe 10x the normal price of a null sec system but safer in terms where u cant plant warp disrupt fields or use bombs etc.

How i would like to see security status:

High sec
-Safe at gates
-safe everywhere else

Low sec
-Safe at gates and stations
-open pvp everywhere else

Null Sec
-full system pvp

Fred Freedom
The Scope
Posted - 2011.02.03 22:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Buffing the roids is also a catch 22, more roids = more potential supply = price decrease. You might notice nocxium is fast becoming valuable and this comes from ores largely dominant in low sec. This was done by decreasing supply from other sources so there isnt always a need to increase supply (though that seems obvious to give more, although here, less=more).


If any of the nocx on the market today actually came from lowsec you'd have a point.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.02.03 22:38:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 06/02/2011 12:07:35
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
At the same time, we have somewhat of a catch 22 since as ebil pirates become more successful as predators, they drive away their prey ending up in you fighting for whatever unfortunate soul dare jumps "the wall". In short, boosting rewards rarely works unless it was very high, instead what should be done is create different activities in each zone so it is a different rather than comparative decision.

How about this as a pretty drastic change to differentiate space: Remove security gain from every NPC in game except lowsec belt rats, which instead will be boosted to 0.0 equivalent levels from a sec gain point of view. No more suicide ganking in highsec and then just to clone jump back out to "safe" 0.0 space and rat it up. If you do the crime you should also do the time in a suitably unpleasant area which happens to be lowsec.

Add cruiser sized officer rats that will drop meta 11-14 medium sized modules (with no duplication of the 0.0 officer drops).

Make lowsec feel bigger, reconnect all the lonely lowsec islands with true pirate gates as well as turning pipes into rings. They should have pirate NPCs the equivalent of highsec navies (neut, 500-1k dps and web but no scram) and they will attack anyone in range to compensate for lack of sentries. They can also be destroyed but have same respawn rate as faction navies but like them have no bounty, loot or salvage. This will make roaming more interesting as it will be more of going in circles than turn and return trips hitting the same gatecamps twice.

Mr Opinions
Posted - 2011.02.03 22:56:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Mr Opinions on 03/02/2011 22:57:47
Originally by: cytheras wrath

Low sec
-Safe at gates and stations
-open pvp everywhere else



QFT ... This is all it would take. Remove pvp (except suicides ofc) at the bottlenecks and lowsec would become a superhighway. Let people pvp everywhere else


raney ilara
Posted - 2011.02.03 22:58:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: raney ilara on 03/02/2011 23:00:51

0.0 sov holders take great pains to keep the population in connected low sec areas down.. which in turn allows them safer access to high sec for trade and purchase of supplies.

Ideas to make these areas more attractive will, if pursued, eventually undermine null sec security.

And if they don't serve to attract more people to low sec what then? Do we continue trying to make the areas even more attractive.. until they are more attractive than WH space or even sovereign 0.0?

Low sec is no mans land.. by design and encouragement of players.

Vim
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.02.03 23:12:00 - [18]
 

Ehm, making 'the bottlenecks' free to travel/dock would make lowsec as safe as highsec, atleast for missionrunners, miners would still be the same(not present).
You already have unprobable ships to run missions that bring 600 dps+ to a mission site, that can dock and use instas to slip away from stations. Oh, while docked refit for cloaky subsystem and traverse gates with a <2.5 second align time covert cloaked to travel gates freely.
Nothing. Bar a huge swarm of drones stopping you from cloak as you jump into a system will stop you in lowsec with the align time of t3s, if a dram or stilleto is on gate and they got logistics to rep the bugger so he can tackle freely? It will take him ~1 sec to see you decloak and click in your direction, 1-2 second to be at it and maybe decloak you just as you go into warp.

So, with no risk to run missions in lowsec unless your a ****** and dont take precious few precautions: Buffing rewards will indeed increase lowsec population army of unprobable t3s that will now have a greater reward then highsec, for a slimer of a percent more risk. You might actually be safer seeing as the highsec aggression/canthief/salvage/drone aggro is a maze.

#2 The highsec->lowsec entrypoints is where the most danger lies. Once your in lowsec, chances of an actual gatecamp in this day and age is closing on 0.
So, take some friends, choose a system in lowsec not bordering highsec and set out, make an intel channel, report hostiles moving around and be safe away from bordersystems.


Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.02.03 23:23:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
How about this as a pretty drastic change to differentiate space: Remove security gain from every NPC in game except lowsec belt rats...

Goes a long way towards increasing overall population and activity, we still need it to be worth living there though.
Originally by: raney ilara
...Low sec is no mans land.. by design and encouragement of players.

What you say about null security may be true for some areas, it is a direct result of Jita being cheaper than local so anything and everything is imported (discussed at length in the "OMG Bridge Nerf" threads).
Boosting null industrial capacity would make high->null pipes a lot less important to the point where security is a non-issue thus removing that factor.

At any rate, so what if null "security" takes a hit? Aren't the people out there supposed to be the hard-as-nails bad-asses of Eve, surely they can protect a convoy or two from the rabble in low-sec Laughing

Joe McAlt
Posted - 2011.02.04 04:46:00 - [20]
 

In RL corporations donít try to conduct business in a country or local that is inherently dangerous unless they can contract with someone who can provide some protection. This is true whether it is working in null sec and relying on an alliance to provide security or diamond suppliers using mercenaries to defend their mines in Africa. This is just good business sense. (Not trying to justify blood diamonds, just using it as an example)

When one looks at low sec, there are no sovereign regions that are protected and in eve most Mercs canít be trusted and donít care to provide the level of protection necessary to make a profit in low sec. At least not and still be cost effective.

In a RL situation, designers would work toward providing a ship fast enough and tough enough to have a chance to survive in that environment. It would have to be something similar to a BS in tanking and combat but still having the ability to mine. More importantly it would have to be able to carry a large enough cargo to make the stop worth while. In eve we just do not have this.

Another approach would be something similar to the liberty ships in WWII. It would have to be virtually disposable so that its loss would not cause an unacceptable hit to the profit margin. Id say something similar to a retriever but with more cargo capacity.

Of course none of this will work as long as the Pirates are able to see them go there the moment they arrive. The current Local and Map systems are like a dinner bell being rung every time and industrial ship enters the area.

For better or worse, carebears are business types, not warriors. Until they can conduct their business with some hope of success they will stay in high sec where they can.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.04 04:57:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Goose99 on 04/02/2011 04:59:52
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
We have boosted low sec a few times before, ultimately what we are facing is psychology or "the wall". The possibility of risk introduces a barrier that is very hard to break down. Most people focus on the pain of loss, though the true pain of loss for any player is the time lost over the assets lost. Whether you have been playing the game for days or years, the time to replace your ship is fairly key to getting back running after being killed and this is fairly constant regardless of your "power".

At the same time, we have somewhat of a catch 22 since as ebil pirates become more successful as predators, they drive away their prey ending up in you fighting for whatever unfortunate soul dare jumps "the wall". In short, boosting rewards rarely works unless it was very high, instead what should be done is create different activities in each zone so it is a different rather than comparative decision.

Buffing the roids is also a catch 22, more roids = more potential supply = price decrease. You might notice nocxium is fast becoming valuable and this comes from ores largely dominant in low sec. This was done by decreasing supply from other sources so there isnt always a need to increase supply (though that seems obvious to give more, although here, less=more).


Have it occurred to you to lower risk? Making all lowsec missions FW style missions doable in sb would attract a lot of carebears. Even simple measures, like always jump into station docking range on warpin, and moving spawning points further away from stargates, would go a long way in populating lowsec.

Instead of catering to fail pirates who needs to be spoonfed noobs, while keeping away the pirated, how about making it actually difficult and let the skilled ones flourish.

Zombie Jeebus
Amarr
Alt Holdings llc
Posted - 2011.02.04 05:24:00 - [22]
 

[long post]

Whines about a buff to low sec causing nul sec security issues are beyond untrue. In all my time in nul I never once saw or heard of a freighter/jf loss that was part of an organized corp or alliance op. Yeah a few people lost one doing something silly but they were using person ships for personal transportation. Once you are doing logistics on a nul corp or alliance level you only have to have worry about neuts in low sec for 1 jump. (Wt can be anywhere and wouldn't be affect by low sec changes)

The usual routine is to have the loaded freighters in hi sec, usually at an alt corp pos and aligned to the low sec gate. Escort fleet sits at the gate and calls all clear. Freighters warp and jump in, are webbed and insta warp to a safe pos where they get titan bridge(s) back home. Using this method there is almost no risk ever presented to the freighters except, again, from wt which is a separate issue.

As for offered ideas:

Removing sec gain from nul/hi sec rats (especially mission rats!!!) I see little problem with that. As it stands you can go from -10 to 5.0 in a few days of lazily farming anoms for isk, never mind if you made a dedicated effort to raise it fast. It can't even be cried that this would impose a risk to the act of raising sec status (there should be one anyway) as most people would just use a stealth bomber to pop the weak bs and move on before you can much of a 360 scan on them.

Low sec isn't desolate because Jita stop indy minded people from living on marketing there. A lot of the people that live in low sec have rather low sec status and can be pretty lazy. When I get an itch to build things, I have no trouble selling them on the market at above Jita prices. You won't market everything but certain things like ammo[projectile/missile] and common t2 fittings [point/web/mwd/hardeners] sell at a decent rate and for a decent markup since people usually want the items NOW with minimal travel time and don't mind paying a little extra for convenience.

As for the nul sec end.. people are just lazy. Items are imported because no one wants to make the effort to make them. I used to invent t2 shield and ewar mods and sold them for less that the poeple importing them for jita and, considering their fuel costs vs my pos fuel, at a greater profit. People are in the mindset of trying to make the fastest isk for the least effort. If you slow down and put in some more, often jsut a tiny bit more, work you can make a lot more isk for a lot less risk. There are just 2 barriers to this: 1. People are lazy. 2. Average isn't very bright.

Concord on the gates... I don't like that idea and not just because I like to camp now and then Wink Concord should stay in hi sec where they are. I wouldn't mind the resident faction's navy patrolling the gates like they (uselessly) do in hi sec already. Give them a little extra dps (or leave the gate guns but give them realistic damage profiles and tracking/range) so that a solo drake can't tank them forever killing poor badgers and it would go a long way to lessen the choke on low sec entry points.

It shouldn't be impossible to keep a camp on a given low sec gate, it should just take a real effort.. more than 2-3 rr ships. If someone wants to have a carrier or a few logi with the camp to keep it alive against the navy/sentry fire + whatever they are shooting then fine. By the time they amass that many assets they have become a target worth hot dropping or forming a counter fleet for. I would even be for slowly escalating navy responses.. so the longer you are there the more ships they SEND in.. none of that magic spawn crap Rolling Eyes let them spawn at nearest station undock and warp to the gate like everyone else.


Zombie Jeebus
Amarr
Alt Holdings llc
Posted - 2011.02.04 05:27:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Zombie Jeebus on 04/02/2011 05:30:17
{hehe ran out of room}

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

Improving Low sec is really easy but CCP dont want to it....

- Give 1.5 mil bounties to low sec belts

That's a bit much, but allowing up to 1m bs would be ok. Not like every system is going to have 3x 1m groups anyway. (Low sec L4 still pay much better)

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Give high end mining minerals (large quantities so they can be profitable if guard squad is present)

ABCM Can stay in nul really, but increased amounts of the better remaining ores would be a good boost.

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Also give research slots to low sec stations

They already have them.. and the wait is usually a little less than hi sec. You still need a pos if you are serious about researching though.

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Increase PI income in low sec

I havent' dabbled with PI yet so I can't comment. Though it would seem like you are either wanting low sec planets to delete slower or a bigger spread of the 'good' planet types. Considering that transport ships make gate camps almost a non issue, ehh let it stay as it is.

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Lower tax fees in stations so we can have Low sec trading hub

Market fees are no more or less than they are in hi sec. The only barrier to a low sec hub is that people don't want to bother because you have to either import materials from hi sec, or build there and then move the finished product.. both take effort and most would rather just keep it 'safe' hi sec. The above mentioned ore/mineral buff would make it easier to get the bits you need to build from low sec without trnasporting it.. this would be a large step in the right direction.

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Allow Bomb usage in low sec (Stealth Bombers)

Nah. Bombs and bubbles are good for nul. Bombers still have a use as is in low sec, it just doesn't need to include bomber gate camps like in nul.. and that's exactly what it would lead to, especially since they can drop bombs and cloak before sentries pop them.

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Rework Bounty system, or remove it

Fail system is fail. The only thing the current system is used for it people putting bounties on their alts to try to have the highest.. then eventually they'll pod themselves to get the money back.

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Make complete new set of Lvl 4 courier missions trough low sec.

Unless the rewards were very high to offset the potential of both ship and standing loss, they would just get skipped. And unless they required more cargo than a transport ship can fit, it isn't going to change anything anyway.

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Rework Faction Warfare

Haven't bothered with Fw either.

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Rework Cosmos missions for low sec!!!!!!

Haven't mesed with these either.

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- Increase gas clouds in low sec to advertise bigger drug production

NO!!!!!! Except for Profiteer Nebula, which has nul sec gasses, low sec gasses are only useful for synth booster and are all but worthless except for finding a nub in to gank. the last thing I, or anyone I know, wants is even more fail ladar sigs to scan and ignore along the way to find something worth doingMad

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac

- ALLOW TITAN DD (with longer jump out timers) but to prevent pirating/camping in caps

Why?

Nypheas Azurai
Posted - 2011.02.04 05:32:00 - [24]
 

FWIW, those who are saying minerals do not come from lowsec and miners don't exist, there is a small but crazy population of us lowsec miners who do go out ot lowsec just for the roids.

Speaking as one of them who jumped "the wall", I think the best suggestions I've heard so far is:
a) make gate camps harder, atm it is all too easy to push-button, receive-killmail on anything larger than a frigate that pops through
b) make pirates work to find you. means possibly removing local chat notices, and/or reward vigilant players who are monitoring their scanners of in-coming targets.
c) fix the bounty system.
d) as others said, add opportunities for other meaningful activities, instead of just piracy.

How profitable is low sec mining? atm, not very. I just do it for the thrill.

Drebble
Gallente
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2011.02.04 08:00:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Sheynan
I think it more important for lowsec culture to create incentives not to go GCC on every occasion, so a working bounty-system and maybe stuff like tradeable killrights.

Shameless plug: Non-exploitable bounty system
Feedback from forumites has been very positive.

//Drebble

Cycotic Maniac
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.02.04 08:02:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Cycotic Maniac on 04/02/2011 08:05:02
Originally by: Zombie Jeebus



haven't bothered reading your post either


Originally by: CCP
Buffing the roids is also a catch 22, more roids = more potential supply = price decrease. You might notice nocxium is fast becoming valuable and this comes from ores largely dominant in low sec. This was done by decreasing supply from other sources so there isnt always a need to increase supply (though that seems obvious to give more, although here, less=more).


How many of roids come from lows sec today? 0.00002 % ?

Zombie Jeebus
Amarr
Alt Holdings llc
Posted - 2011.02.04 12:25:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Cycotic Maniac
Edited by: Cycotic Maniac on 04/02/2011 08:05:02
Originally by: Zombie Jeebus



haven't bothered reading your post either


Originally by: CCP
Buffing the roids is also a catch 22, more roids = more potential supply = price decrease. You might notice nocxium is fast becoming valuable and this comes from ores largely dominant in low sec. This was done by decreasing supply from other sources so there isnt always a need to increase supply (though that seems obvious to give more, although here, less=more).


How many of roids come from lows sec today? 0.00002 % ?


Apparently you didn't read any others either. There are miners who live in and mine in low sec. Compared to the ore fom nul sec miners and hi sec, often (note.. often not always) macro, miners.. yes low sec ore is a very small part of the market because of the risk vs reward. The nocx changes have caused a small increase in my area of people trying to mine. Not an epic change but a small step in the right direction.

As for not reading my replies to your post... *shrugs* most of it agreed with you or was at least constructive no I'm not really losing out there.

Mike Voidstar
Posted - 2011.02.04 12:35:00 - [28]
 

Boost Low-Sec?


Easy Solution: Stop shooting people who visit.

Of course, then it would not be low-sec.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.02.04 14:36:00 - [29]
 

EvE is a broken PvP Game. The problem lies in the foundation of the EvE mechanics.

To fix low sec you need to fix the foundations of EvE pvp. In any PvP game were tangible loss is incorporated into the game you also need to incorporate tangible penalties. EvE has no real tangible penalties.

Imagine your real life self and the following scenario's.

1. You could make a clone of yourself that had no feasible link to yourself and direct that clone to do whatever you wanted ie. (you could get that clone to go rob a bank for you, even if he got caught there is no possible way that he could be linked to you. If he succeeds, any profit he makes is given to you and is untracable. Imagine what you would do with that clone in real life?

2. Imagine you could go to any suburb other then where you live. You can commit any crime and as long as you do it outside your suburb you are immune to repercussions. If you want to go back to that suburb you can do a couple of hours of community service and get paid full wages for it, regardless of your crime (****, murder, extortion) after a few days the cops will forgive you and your sweet. You can do this as many times as you like.

3. Imagine you could go to any country in the world other then your country. You can commit any crime (murder, ****, robbery) and as long as you don't commit any crime in your own country no action is taken against you.

4. Imagine nobody has any patriotism. You can kill your countrymen, strangers and allies. No matter who you kill each killing is considered just as bad as the others. You can go next door and kill and rob your neighbor or go to Afghanistan and kill and rob a terrorist. The police consider both crimes to be equally bad. Regardless of what you do, completing a couple of hours of full wage community service will fix that crime up and you'll never had to face justice.

Considering the above examples its no wonder that people are afraid to go to low sec or null sec. There are not difficult consequences for murder and robbery in EvE. Everyone and his dog has a unlimited number of get out of jail free cards. Even a serial killer with 10,000 murders under his belt only needs to spend a week of profitable community service to be completely forgiven.

Introduce real reasons not to kill certain people (minny killing minny vs minny killing amarr, should separate penalties), introduce a real penalty for serial murder, introduce a real reason to ransom and the mechanics to go with it, introduce a real reason not to kill legitimately unoffensive people (traders (goods requirements for low sec that provide substantial benefits for the would be killers), mission runners (benefits for the would be killers that occur for allowing missioners to run missions), miners (benefits for the would be killers that occur for allowing miners to be unmolested).

If you don't understand what I mean by the last paragraph, imagine a place like Afghanistan and ask yourself why both the Taliban and the Coalition don't just kill everyone (farmers, merchants etc). And then compare that with low sec and null where everyone kills everyone not directly associated. Simple reason is non-associated people in EvE have no intrinsic value at all while in RL the true value is in those people, they're what generate income that taxes, support and goods are siphoned from.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.02.04 14:47:00 - [30]
 

An in-game example:

Fred the missioner wants to go to low sec to run level 5's. He goes to some low sec near Molden Heath. He notices a lot of pirates from a large pirate corporation are in his area.

Fred looks them up, finds out they're willing to allow Fred to hang out in their region if Fred is willing to have taxes taken from his missioning and become one of their minions. Fred applies and is added to their tax list, and to their minion channel.

Fred can now mission, killing him would be somewhat counterproductive because now Freds existence is worth something, Fred can also act as a minion scout and provide details on non-enlisted miners / missioners and threats via the minion channel.


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