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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2011.02.02 13:06:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Space Jew Sandwitch
Now in WOW since the game has been out for a while they made the leveling faster and came out with a booster add on which guides you all the way to 85 in like 10 days.


Way to ruin a game! and these leveling boosters are $50, so you approve of some people paying to advince in game over someone else?


Swiftsoul Tian
Posted - 2011.02.02 14:06:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Jint Hikaru

...and these leveling boosters are $50, so you approve of some people paying to advince in game over someone else?



Why not? Some have time, some have money - both can advanced in the game the way that fit to their RL.

For CCP it wouldn't make any difference, they get $45 if you play 3 month or $65 if you play 1 month and boost your SP.

According to most comments, the 3 month player should still be superior just because he knows more about the game - so what's the problem?

Personally I find most MMOs way to easy, I never played WoW, I like it hardcore and even EVE is to easy in my eyes but at the same time it's BORING just to wait for the next required skill to finish and there is nothing I can do to fasten it.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.02 14:17:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Swiftsoul Tian
Originally by: Jint Hikaru
...and these leveling boosters are $50, so you approve of some people paying to advince in game over someone else?
Why not? Some have time, some have money - both can advanced in the game the way that fit to their RL.
Those with money can buy a character from the bazaar.

Jokerface666
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.02 14:29:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Swiftsoul Tian
Originally by: Jint Hikaru

...and these leveling boosters are $50, so you approve of some people paying to advince in game over someone else?



Why not? Some have time, some have money - both can advanced in the game the way that fit to their RL.

For CCP it wouldn't make any difference, they get $45 if you play 3 month or $65 if you play 1 month and boost your SP.

According to most comments, the 3 month player should still be superior just because he knows more about the game - so what's the problem?

Personally I find most MMOs way to easy, I never played WoW, I like it hardcore and even EVE is to easy in my eyes but at the same time it's BORING just to wait for the next required skill to finish and there is nothing I can do to fasten it.




Ehm Money and Time???
WTF, the skill training is time relative, doesn't matters how much online you are....
so paying for SP will give an advantage over ppl who spent years in this game, to be where they are now, and then some idiot with 500 $ spare should come and get that in minutes!?
NO JUST FREAKING NO!!!

i have only 15 Mil SP and STILL NO!!!

if you do not like the SP system in EVE go play WOW and enjoy hours of bull****ing around to make progress....

BR

Whezker
Gallente
Next Stage Initiative
Trans-Stellar Industries
Posted - 2011.02.02 15:02:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Fulbert
150mil SP are useless. You cannot fly 3 different carriers and 2 T2 cruisers at the same time. Such SP amount just means you are more versatile. New players don't need to be versatile since they don't really know any aspect of the game.


+1 I think the same.

Swiftsoul Tian
Posted - 2011.02.02 17:06:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Those with money can buy a character from the bazaar.


It's legit to buy characters? LMAO!

Well, I wouldn't buy a character, I prefer to make it on my own. I find it important to go thru all the hassles a newbie has to face, just to understand the game mechanics.

I've stared EVE two weeks ago. While I like the complexity of the system I find it boring at the same time. I've done some mission running and already have access to L3 missions but can't do them in my Thrasher, even L2 missions are almost impossible to take without the proper equipment. So what to do? I have to wait to get the required skills.

Are there any events for noobs? I couldn't find anything.

Jokerface666
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.02 17:38:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Swiftsoul Tian
Originally by: Tippia
Those with money can buy a character from the bazaar.


It's legit to buy characters? LMAO!

Well, I wouldn't buy a character, I prefer to make it on my own. I find it important to go thru all the hassles a newbie has to face, just to understand the game mechanics.

I've stared EVE two weeks ago. While I like the complexity of the system I find it boring at the same time. I've done some mission running and already have access to L3 missions but can't do them in my Thrasher, even L2 missions are almost impossible to take without the proper equipment. So what to do? I have to wait to get the required skills.

Are there any events for noobs? I couldn't find anything.


Mate get yourself a corp ^^ seriously!!!

Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.06 00:37:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Not Bovvered
I want's wot he's got and I don't WAIT for it.


Fixed

Zephris
Posted - 2011.02.06 01:52:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Zephris on 06/02/2011 01:54:29
Edited by: Zephris on 06/02/2011 01:52:10
Op has a point.
The only way you are going to defeat someone in market/industry games is having more skill than they do. Everyone have access to the same tools, websites and spreadsheet.
Higher skills translates to:
Higher cargo capacity.
Higher mining yield and refine efficiency.
More market orders.

Good luck winning on the market without these. And these didn't even consider the massive amount of capital and alts they have accumulated over the years.
I really wouldn't mind being able to buy non-combat skill with plex. This is no different from buying industrial alts by selling plex, but it's more regulated and more fair because you know exactly what you get.

Commander Funyoun
Posted - 2011.02.06 04:26:00 - [70]
 

I have a buddy in my corp who has been playing EVE for about 3 months now. 3 months worth of SP training and he flies a Tristan. The guy has 10 times more kills than me hands down. In a flipping Tristan no less. He is out smoking Cruisers and destroyers and T2 frigs in a T1 TRISTAN!!! WoW sucks for the EXACT reason you are suggesting... there is no real challenge to it. You get your guy up to some predetermined level that is so high that you can run around with nothing but a stick and still spank over half the other players in the game and then you wait for the next expansion so you can level up again... boring.

EVE is built so that a guy with 3 months of game time can hop in a well fitted T1 Frigate and spank the crap out of a player who has been playing for 5 years in a ship that has a little flaw in the fitting.

Your suggestion is Epic Fail... please go back to your D&D inspired kiddy land and let the smart people play the better game.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.06 04:44:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Zephris
Op has a point.
Not really…
Quote:
The only way you are going to defeat someone in market/industry games is having more skill than they do.
More skill. yes. More skills, nah.
More skill translates into spotting and analysing trends, seeing through multiple levels of interdependence, proper hedging. The (character) skills required can be done in a matter of months, and then it's you who have to put them to work.

…so that pretty much leaves the capital, but that's what that skill is there for: to make it grow by leaps and bounds.

Zephris
Posted - 2011.02.06 06:24:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Zephris on 06/02/2011 07:23:48
Originally by: Commander Funyoun
I have a buddy in my corp who has been playing EVE for about 3 months now. 3 months worth of SP training and he flies a Tristan. The guy has 10 times more kills than me hands down. In a flipping Tristan no less. He is out smoking Cruisers and destroyers and T2 frigs in a T1 TRISTAN!!! WoW sucks for the EXACT reason you are suggesting... there is no real challenge to it. You get your guy up to some predetermined level that is so high that you can run around with nothing but a stick and still spank over half the other players in the game and then you wait for the next expansion so you can level up again... boring.

EVE is built so that a guy with 3 months of game time can hop in a well fitted T1 Frigate and spank the crap out of a player who has been playing for 5 years in a ship that has a little flaw in the fitting.

Your suggestion is Epic Fail... please go back to your D&D inspired kiddy land and let the smart people play the better game.


ROFL.
A 5 Year old combat pilot can fly supercapitals. A 3 month old genius is not getting anywhere near it without being blown up.
What is a T1 frigate, no matter how well fit and flown, going to do against a supercap ?
Stop making laughable argument, a level playing field is better a pvp regardless how you look at it.

while we are on this topic, why do all these supposedly mature eve players insist that apples are better then oranges ?

Zephris
Posted - 2011.02.06 06:27:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Zephris
Op has a point.
Not really…
Quote:
The only way you are going to defeat someone in market/industry games is having more skill than they do.
More skill. yes. More skills, nah.
More skill translates into spotting and analysing trends, seeing through multiple levels of interdependence, proper hedging. The (character) skills required can be done in a matter of months, and then it's you who have to put them to work.

…so that pretty much leaves the capital, but that's what that skill is there for: to make it grow by leaps and bounds.


As I said, everyone have access to same tools, websites and so on and so forth, which will do the spotting for you.
In the end the guy that can haul a stack of battleships, the guy that can run mineral out of low sec, the guy who can run 10+ science and industry job and has a pos will have a huge advantage over the guy who doesn't.

Sure you could get help from a fat cat, but if you don't have the connections you are in a world of hurt.

raney ilara
Posted - 2011.02.06 07:33:00 - [74]
 

Quote:
EVE is so old it is impossible to get even close to older players.


This has already been proven false.. unless you mean piloting a titan lol. There are plenty of videos online of one and two month olds taking out 2003-2005 players.

Those players that have been with CCP for years deserve what they have..learn to fight them or stay away from them. You need to specialize and focus if you are a noob.

Where WOW sucks is where all players are about the same and everyone always knows what to expect.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.06 07:38:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 06/02/2011 07:38:58
Hey, I got an idea. We could add learning skills to speed up learning. lol.

There are implants if you can afford them. ...but the wow idea sucks.
Quote:

A 5 Year old combat pilot can fly supercapitals. A 3 month old genius is not getting anywhere near it without being blown up.


The way it should be.

Zephris
Posted - 2011.02.09 21:03:00 - [76]
 

limiting character capacity by age is exactly what the OP was talking about.
Right now the only way for newer player to overcome this is buy characters.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.09 21:44:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 09/02/2011 21:46:46
Originally by: Zephris
As I said, everyone have access to same tools, websites and so on and so forth, which will do the spotting for you.
…and using those means you'll be at a severe advantage over doing your own homework, because they will not reveal the really useful stuff. EVE players are generally clever enough not to tip everyone else off on a good source of income, since that would only hurt their wallets.
Quote:
limiting character capacity by age is exactly what the OP was talking about.
Right now the only way for newer player to overcome this is buy characters.
No. There are plenty of ways to overcome it, and buying a character is quite likely the least effective of them since the player will have no idea how to use all that stuff…

raney ilara
Posted - 2011.02.09 23:32:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Zephris
limiting character capacity by age is exactly what the OP was talking about.
Right now the only way for newer player to overcome this is buy characters.


This is not true (as discussed above)... However, I see nothing wrong with allowing those who have played constantly since 2003 to have way more skills than a three month old.. sorry.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2011.02.10 00:12:00 - [79]
 

I personally think the skillpoint system in eve is brilliant. The logarithmic time requirement for a linear gain produces a system where the disparity in sp benefits between any two players always levels out over time. Your proposal is to simply allow players to reach the “mostly even” plateau more quickly. But why?

A 15m sp character can do almost any single game activity at 95% effectiveness. By 30m, they can perfect that single activity or quadruple the things they can do efficiently in game. Given the average player earns about 15-20m skillpoints a year, it sounds to me like you just don’t want to focus for a year to be 95% efficient. I can understand, as playing a game for a year to be 95% efficient seems like such a long time!!!

This is where group play fills the waiting void. Eve is a societal game, where, with the exception of missions and market flipping, very little activities are accomplished efficiently solo. The most efficient PvP engagements are gangs, most efficient production activities involve getting materials from others at below market cost and having intel on market projections. Almost always, working in groups provides far more benefits/efficiency than increasing your skill points.

Finally, when a new player is competing against an old player, it is rarely the difference in skillpoints that determines the outcome. The victor is usually determined by who uses the better tactic, or the person with friends/contacts, or the person with better intel.

Given this, you might ask what’s the harm in speeding up people to that sp plateau? Probably not too much. As it is though, you start learning skills so rapidly that every day you can do something more/new, and there’s still soo much to explore and learn. A month or two in, and the system nearly forces you to work with others to accomplish your goal. It’s the friends you make then that keep you playing.

Woodman2
Posted - 2011.02.10 03:32:00 - [80]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1461783

DrDooma
Posted - 2011.02.10 05:25:00 - [81]
 

I am pretty sure that 50m SP guaranties that you have mastered every ship in a single race with close to maximum skills outside of capitals. If you only intend tot train to +4 rather then +5 then you can probably get away with even 30m sp. That’s about a year.

The think about EVE, is that if you cooperate with other players or pick your targets you achieve more then just having ‘best’ gear or skills.

Zephris
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:13:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Gizznitt Malikite
I personally think the skillpoint system in eve is brilliant. The logarithmic time requirement for a linear gain produces a system where the disparity in sp benefits between any two players always levels out over time. Your proposal is to simply allow players to reach the “mostly even” plateau more quickly. But why?

A 15m sp character can do almost any single game activity at 95% effectiveness. By 30m, they can perfect that single activity or quadruple the things they can do efficiently in game. Given the average player earns about 15-20m skillpoints a year, it sounds to me like you just don’t want to focus for a year to be 95% efficient. I can understand, as playing a game for a year to be 95% efficient seems like such a long time!!!

This is where group play fills the waiting void. Eve is a societal game, where, with the exception of missions and market flipping, very little activities are accomplished efficiently solo. The most efficient PvP engagements are gangs, most efficient production activities involve getting materials from others at below market cost and having intel on market projections. Almost always, working in groups provides far more benefits/efficiency than increasing your skill points.

Finally, when a new player is competing against an old player, it is rarely the difference in skillpoints that determines the outcome. The victor is usually determined by who uses the better tactic, or the person with friends/contacts, or the person with better intel.

Given this, you might ask what’s the harm in speeding up people to that sp plateau? Probably not too much. As it is though, you start learning skills so rapidly that every day you can do something more/new, and there’s still soo much to explore and learn. A month or two in, and the system nearly forces you to work with others to accomplish your goal. It’s the friends you make then that keep you playing.



This would be true if certain ship / skill and module did not require L5 skills.
For those you have no choice but to spend half a month training.

Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:40:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Elzon1 on 10/02/2011 17:45:17
Speed up training... no

But here is another idea:

Decrease the amount of overall time it takes to train all the skills in EVE to level 5. I have heard that it can take 10+ years to train all skills to level 5. Perhaps by taking the character with the most SP in game and proportionally shrinking all the skill training times down to his SP count plus one month could be reasonable. I think something like this should have been done when the learning skills were removed.

But yeah, 10+ years in order to do everything in game at level 5 is just insane Laughing

Edit: Forgot to add, give all those who spent time training skills all the SP they are due because of the skill training time shrinkage. Another thought, perhaps the skill shrinkage should be balanced with the SP of the in game character with the most SP so as to give that character, and all others, their due SP because of the shrinkage.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:53:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 10/02/2011 17:56:46
Originally by: Elzon1
But yeah, 10+ years in order to do everything in game at level 5 is just insane Laughing
It's closer to 20, actually. And no, it's not particularly insane for one very simple reason: there is no reason to ever train all skills that high other than "I have nothing useful to train". The insane part would be training all those skills to V, not the time it takes to do so.

The problem is this flawed belief that you need to have skills at lvl V for them to be worth anything. This is patently false except in a few cases where the skills are either universally beneficial (and also cheap) or where the bonuses they provide are so staggeringly high that they're well worth the wait.

For every skill you take to V, you are missing out on 4–5 other skills that you could take to IV and which would give you much higher combined benefits.

Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.02.10 19:11:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Elzon1 on 10/02/2011 19:11:30
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 10/02/2011 17:56:46
Originally by: Elzon1
But yeah, 10+ years in order to do everything in game at level 5 is just insane Laughing
It's closer to 20, actually. And no, it's not particularly insane for one very simple reason: there is no reason to ever train all skills that high other than "I have nothing useful to train". The insane part would be training all those skills to V, not the time it takes to do so.

The problem is this flawed belief that you need to have skills at lvl V for them to be worth anything. This is patently false except in a few cases where the skills are either universally beneficial (and also cheap) or where the bonuses they provide are so staggeringly high that they're well worth the wait.

For every skill you take to V, you are missing out on 4–5 other skills that you could take to IV and which would give you much higher combined benefits.


20+ years, yeah I heard that one too I just couldn't remember which one was right (never took the time to check).

It's not like I'm saying that lvl 5 skills should be trained, I was just commenting on the length of time it took to train absolutely everything. All I was pointing out is that by shortening the max training time it could speed up everyone's training to a more reasonable pace while still being fair to those who have been training for so long.

Thanks for pointing out to others that training to lvl 5 is typically not a wise decision in most cases other than training a prerequisite. Very Happy

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.10 19:37:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Elzon1
I was just commenting on the length of time it took to train absolutely everything.
And I'm questioning how relevant that is to… well… anything.
Quote:
All I was pointing out is that by shortening the max training time it could speed up everyone's training to a more reasonable pace while still being fair to those who have been training for so long.
What problem would that solve?


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