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Sem Nan
Posted - 2011.02.01 02:40:00 - [1]
 

Knowing that there are those out there who like to speak without thinking outside of his own personal bubble, i'll try and direct you here. Read the part where the CSM expose their view on AFK cloaking.. And i'll also ask to refrain from saying "AFK cloakers are harmless because they are AFK". Those who say that either haven't understood the problem, or are trying to offend someone's intelligence. And yes, this again :)


I have this dream, where we all can discuss this subject like grown ups. I do want to hear counter-arguments. We're here to expose our ideas and points of view, and not to enforce our will.


With all that being said, and expecting the 15 year-old minded arguments, here is an idea.


Cloaking devices require fuel, and said fuel should either go on a specialized fuel bay, or can only be loaded into the cargobay through a station, SMA or fitting-service capable ship. The idea here is that you can no longer live in enemy territory. You can only load enough fuel to last 48 to 72 hours of non-stop cloak.

This way, you won't nerf ANY other usage of cloaking devices.


Three other ideas here. Enable fitting service on black ops ships, so that the camping ships can be refuelled. Do allow the ships to move fuel as normal cargo, and, just have more cloakers to relieve one another.

I am saying this because i to like to sit in enemy territory, and watch them cry in rage while they can't rat and mine :) But i do not like it when bigger corps/alliances can afford to have one alt sit on my system for three months in a row (fact). That is disturbance with absolutely NO consequences/cost for the invader, other than having to log into that alt and do nothing else.


What made me think that this is an interesting idea, is that it doesn't disable AFK cloaking. It simple makes it more complex, and creates the necessity of more planning and more logistics for whoever wants to apply that tactic.



I have also heard some other ideas. One of them is making it so ships that hold open cynosural fields cannot use ewar equipment (scrambler, disruptor, etc..) Another idea is having either a cooldown for tackling equipment after droping out of cloak, or making it so that the de-cloaking range is ALWAYS above the disruption/scrambling (depending on the module fitted on the ship). Either case, the tackler would be visible before he could do anything.

However, i personally dislike these three ideas because they also nerf hot-dropping gangs who work in NPC systems.


So. Thoughts? Constructive comments?

Malakai Asamov
Minmatar
Van Diemen's Demise
Posted - 2011.02.01 05:35:00 - [2]
 

Is the best solution i can think of that cloaking requires fuel.

Quite a slow rate of fuel use that it is easy to carry enough for 24 hours.

Also have the rate it is used fluctuate so that you cant plan for exactly 48 hours before i need to refuel it would require monitoring.

Mike Voidstar
Posted - 2011.02.01 05:52:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Mike Voidstar on 01/02/2011 05:52:58
Best solution I can think of makes cloaks probable with the bookmark having a substancial margin of error.

Probing a ship would not decloak it, just put you within a certain distance (0-15km?). So long as the cloaker kept moving and/or was at the keyboard, his danger would be minimal and only bad luck would break his cloak when you warped in on him. The AFK cloaker would be more vunerable to a lucky warp in, and more susceptable to a large smartbomb strike ending his career as an AFK cloaker for the immediate future.

Ze Laranja
Posted - 2011.02.01 12:58:00 - [4]
 

The fuel solution maybe can be a solution to reduce a number of stupids macroratting in npc regions.

I agree with cloak fuel

0/

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.02.01 14:05:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 01/02/2011 14:07:37

afk cloaking is a fine and required tactic and doesn't need a nerf.


Originally by: Sem Nan

I have also heard some other ideas. One of them is making it so ships that hold open cynosural fields cannot use ewar equipment (scrambler, disruptor, etc..) Another idea is having either a cooldown for tackling equipment after droping out of cloak, or making it so that the de-cloaking range is ALWAYS above the disruption/scrambling (depending on the module fitted on the ship). Either case, the tackler would be visible before he could do anything.

i see you dont like your ratting raven being hotdropped, but this mechanic is all right IMO, so no support for your suggestion.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.02.01 14:33:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Malakai Asamov
Is the best solution i can think of that cloaking requires fuel.

Quite a slow rate of fuel use that it is easy to carry enough for 24 hours.

Also have the rate it is used fluctuate so that you cant plan for exactly 48 hours before i need to refuel it would require monitoring.

And what about people who want to go for roams, many jumps into enemy territory, without the luxury of jump bridges and cyno's.

-1.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.01 15:14:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 01/02/2011 15:15:07
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Malakai Asamov
Is the best solution i can think of that cloaking requires fuel.

Quite a slow rate of fuel use that it is easy to carry enough for 24 hours.

Also have the rate it is used fluctuate so that you cant plan for exactly 48 hours before i need to refuel it would require monitoring.

And what about people who want to go for roams, many jumps into enemy territory, without the luxury of jump bridges and cyno's.

-1.
It shouldn't take you 24 to 48 hours of cloaked time to get from point A to point B.

And assuming it would take you that long, I'm sure you'll take some time off to eat and sleep during that 48-hour trip into enemy territory, so why not log off or safe spot and save some fuel for when you get there?


Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Kumovi
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2011.02.01 15:35:00 - [8]
 

A solution means there is a problem. There isn't.

Ardamalis
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.01 15:55:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Ardamalis on 01/02/2011 15:57:21
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Malakai Asamov
Is the best solution i can think of that cloaking requires fuel.

Quite a slow rate of fuel use that it is easy to carry enough for 24 hours.

Also have the rate it is used fluctuate so that you cant plan for exactly 48 hours before i need to refuel it would require monitoring.

And what about people who want to go for roams, many jumps into enemy territory, without the luxury of jump bridges and cyno's.

-1.


Bring a cloaky hauler full of fuel for logistics. Park it somewhere in a safespot, and just return to the hauler once your cov ops ships get low on fuel.

Ze Laranja
Posted - 2011.02.01 16:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 01/02/2011 15:15:07
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Malakai Asamov
Is the best solution i can think of that cloaking requires fuel.

Quite a slow rate of fuel use that it is easy to carry enough for 24 hours.

Also have the rate it is used fluctuate so that you cant plan for exactly 48 hours before i need to refuel it would require monitoring.

And what about people who want to go for roams, many jumps into enemy territory, without the luxury of jump bridges and cyno's.

-1.
It shouldn't take you 24 to 48 hours of cloaked time to get from point A to point B.

And assuming it would take you that long, I'm sure you'll take some time off to eat and sleep during that 48-hour trip into enemy territory, so why not log off or safe spot and save some fuel for when you get there?



I agree...

Today someone sit in your space with cloak 24/7 and you don't know if he is dangeous or not. Then you lose every works about industrial and military levels. I guess if want pew pew just enter in the system and show up yours intentions with big fleets, blocked gate like the old ages.

Ze Laranja
Posted - 2011.02.01 16:07:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ardamalis
Edited by: Ardamalis on 01/02/2011 15:57:21
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Malakai Asamov
Is the best solution i can think of that cloaking requires fuel.

Quite a slow rate of fuel use that it is easy to carry enough for 24 hours.

Also have the rate it is used fluctuate so that you cant plan for exactly 48 hours before i need to refuel it would require monitoring.

And what about people who want to go for roams, many jumps into enemy territory, without the luxury of jump bridges and cyno's.

-1.


Bring a cloaky hauler full of fuel for logistics. Park it somewhere in a safespot, and just return to the hauler once your cov ops ships get low on fuel.


that won't work check the first post again. The fuel can only be loaded into the cargobay through a station, SMA or fitting-service capable ship.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.01 16:21:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ze Laranja
I agree...

Today someone sit in your space with cloak 24/7 and you don't know if he is dangeous or not. Then you lose every works about industrial and military levels. I guess if want pew pew just enter in the system and show up yours intentions with big fleets, blocked gate like the old ages.
Nice troll. And as usual, nice going avoiding the response. It's what I expect from you, "HAHA AFK CLOAKER IS AFK HAHAHA HE DUN HURT"


Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.01 17:05:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Grarr Dexx
A solution means there is a problem. There isn't.


This^^

Please, for the love of god, stop whining about enemies who are both away from their keyboard, and in such a state that they can neither target anyone, or activate any modules on anyone.

It really is quite pathetic that this topic still comes up on a daily basis in this cesspool of a subforum.

99.999999% of AFK cloaking is done in station or outpost systems.

If you rat in a station or outpost system, you deserve to be killed.

If you dont scout your industrials or capitals you deserve to be killed.

If you can't handle a few afk reds in your staging system you don't deserve to live in 0.0

End of story.

Sem Nan
Posted - 2011.02.01 18:30:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Sem Nan on 01/02/2011 18:37:33
Like someone said, and i haven't really thought about it, this would also affect ratting bots. As some people might not know, macro ratting ships warp to a safespot and cloak up the minute a neutral or red enters the system.


Now, to adress some of the comments.

Originally by: Infinity Ziona

And what about people who want to go for roams, many jumps into enemy territory, without the luxury of jump bridges and cyno's.

-1.


You'd have enough fuel to run your cloak for 24 to 48 hours non-stop. Would you really have your cloak activated for so long in these roams? If you will, won't you ever come by NPC stations where you can dock and refuel?

At any rate, one idea we (me and my corp mates) had is to make the Black Ops have fitting service. Like i said, i also like to roam, so i wouldn't want to shoot myself in the foot :) Having a black ops running with you during your roams is doable. Having a black ops come and refuel a guy who lives in enemy territory for 3 months, not so much.

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 01/02/2011 14:07:37

afk cloaking is a fine and required tactic and doesn't need a nerf.




Yes. If you come to my system, and sit there for 4, 5 days halting the economy, i agree. If you come to my system, and sit there for three weeks straight, not so much.

I know its food for trolls, but here is my case. I am part of a somewhat small alliance, who holds one system. The combined cost for said system sits between 3 and 5 billion per month. No one person can cover that cost on his own, so we depend on the revenue generated by mining and ratting in said system. However, a cloaker with a known hot-drop profile came to our system three weeks ago, and has not left since. Now how are we supposed to pay for the sovereignty cost and for the PVP gear, without risking every single ratting and mining fleet we have? Not to mention that our indexes have flatlined ever since he came.

That's a pretty big disturbance. And all the enemy had to do was come to our system in a 30 day old account and sit there, doing nothing. He is probably AFK most of the time, but the potential threat is not worth the risk.


It is all fun and games, until it happens to you.

Originally by: Magnus Orin

Please, for the love of god, stop whining about enemies who are both away from their keyboard, and in such a state that they can neither target anyone, or activate any modules on anyone.

It really is quite pathetic that this topic still comes up on a daily basis in this cesspool of a subforum.




Yes, he is away from his keyboard. So lets go do our business.

3 hours later: Oh no, our 5 hulks, our orca and three of our ratting ravens got blown up. Oh well, guess he came back. But that's ok, the 3 hours of running operation we had were more than enough to cover one billion in losses..

Originally by: Magnus Orin
99.999999% of AFK cloaking is done in station or outpost systems.

If you rat in a station or outpost system, you deserve to be killed.

If you dont scout your industrials or capitals you deserve to be killed.

If you can't handle a few afk reds in your staging system you don't deserve to live in 0.0

End of story.


Lets forget about trying to forge small, independent alliances and just join the big macro-ratting funded russian alliances. End of story.

Ze Laranja
Posted - 2011.02.01 18:50:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Ze Laranja on 01/02/2011 18:53:22
Originally by: Magnus Orin
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
A solution means there is a problem. There isn't.


This^^

Please, for the love of god, stop whining about enemies who are both away from their keyboard, and in such a state that they can neither target anyone, or activate any modules on anyone.

It really is quite pathetic that this topic still comes up on a daily basis in this cesspool of a subforum.

99.999999% of AFK cloaking is done in station or outpost systems.

If you rat in a station or outpost system, you deserve to be killed.

If you dont scout your industrials or capitals you deserve to be killed.

If you can't handle a few afk reds in your staging system you don't deserve to live in 0.0

End of story.


hold on buddy the end is so far away!!!

1 - I guess you number is wrong, what is based information you used to find this number?
2 - That issue is not nerf to pvp hotdrop, scout, bomber ops will be the same thing else.
3 - that issue will nerf thousand ratting bots has in 0.0, low sec.

I agree the issue colateral will reflect in a big Aliances will lose a good part of money made from renters...

Mortinha
Posted - 2011.02.01 18:54:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Magnus Orin
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
A solution means there is a problem. There isn't.


This^^

Please, for the love of god, stop whining about enemies who are both away from their keyboard, and in such a state that they can neither target anyone, or activate any modules on anyone.

It really is quite pathetic that this topic still comes up on a daily basis in this cesspool of a subforum.

99.999999% of AFK cloaking is done in station or outpost systems.

If you rat in a station or outpost system, you deserve to be killed.

If you dont scout your industrials or capitals you deserve to be killed.

If you can't handle a few afk reds in your staging system you don't deserve to live in 0.0

End of story.


I believe that difficulting afk cloaking would come up with new game mechanics, so, may be a valid request. As far as Im concerned, if you have a local channel that says who is in the system, you should also be able to locate this person as somehow the universe _knows_ he is there, cloaked or not. It should also be equivalent in wormhole systems, where cloaking would be truly undetectable, or require no fuel whatsoever.

About the "if you do X you deserve to kill", well, people play to have fun the way they like it, who are you to say what anyone should or shouldnt do? Is that an easy kill? Better for you, right? So, whats the bother anyway? I do agree that ppl should always be grouped, scouted, etc, but that aint got to do with afk cloaking, its about team play in the first place.

I believe that EVE has a lot of broken mechanics which make the life of macroers easier and the life of real players harder. A macroer can detect youre in the system because of local channel. Then he can move to other system, logout, whatever. But if you do have an active character in your own system, what can you do? Just sit and wait cloakers to leave? Well, that doesnt seems fair from my perspective.

Having no local channel would make cloaking _really_ effective and ppl would be happy to chase down macroers as they couldnt be able to detect them anymore. But, with that mechanics, cloaking should be detectable with probes, but would require some more time to scan down. The advantage of cloaking would still be stealthily approach the player for scout/hot droping, but you would only be able to do that in a short window of time as there would be fuel/whatever requirements and ppl could scan you down after a while.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.01 19:28:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Mortinha


As far as Im concerned, if you have a local channel that says who is in the system, you should also be able to locate this person as somehow the universe _knows_ he is there, cloaked or not.


The lore behind the "local" channel is that it is connected to the stargate technology and only records when a pilot jumps into a system, and when they jump out.

Just because they appear in local does not mean that the universe or anyone in it knows where they are; only that they have not left the system.

Sem Nan
Posted - 2011.02.01 20:14:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Sem Nan on 01/02/2011 20:15:02
Hmm, i didn't know about that local lore. Makes some sense Smile

At any rate, most people here got the wrong idea of what would be affected by this change. As i said, i also do roams, i also like to use black ops hot drops to gank.

The problem, as i see it, is that it's TOO easy to economically break small alliances. You see an alliance starting, with just one system, then you just park a covert cyno alt in their system. The alliance would be insane if it allowed its members to operate normally under that condition.

So, i don't see a problem with AFK cloaking in NPC systems with stations. The solution will allow them to continue doing their thing, they will just have to dock two to three times a week to refuel.

I also don't see a problem with AFK cloaking in an outpost/player-owned-station system. Chances are that if an alliance has an outpost system, then its big enough to have several systems.

Again, i DO see a problem with someone breaking a small alliance's entire revenue source just by parking a covert cyno alt for how long he pleases, and the only thing we can do about it is wait for him to get bored and leave.


So, problem: Small PVP alliance funds itself with one system. Random cloaker comes in and parks an alt for one month straight. Alliance goes bankrupt, and return to high sec. Result, less people to pvp in 0.0.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.01 21:08:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Sem Nan
Edited by: Sem Nan on 01/02/2011 20:15:02
Hmm, i didn't know about that local lore. Makes some sense Smile

At any rate, most people here got the wrong idea of what would be affected by this change. As i said, i also do roams, i also like to use black ops hot drops to gank.

The problem, as i see it, is that it's TOO easy to economically break small alliances. You see an alliance starting, with just one system, then you just park a covert cyno alt in their system. The alliance would be insane if it allowed its members to operate normally under that condition.

So, i don't see a problem with AFK cloaking in NPC systems with stations. The solution will allow them to continue doing their thing, they will just have to dock two to three times a week to refuel.

I also don't see a problem with AFK cloaking in an outpost/player-owned-station system. Chances are that if an alliance has an outpost system, then its big enough to have several systems.

Again, i DO see a problem with someone breaking a small alliance's entire revenue source just by parking a covert cyno alt for how long he pleases, and the only thing we can do about it is wait for him to get bored and leave.


So, problem: Small PVP alliance funds itself with one system. Random cloaker comes in and parks an alt for one month straight. Alliance goes bankrupt, and return to high sec. Result, less people to pvp in 0.0.


You cannot handicap 0.0 for smaller alliances.

Any change you could ever make to make life for them easier would naturally be of overwhelming benefit to the larger, more powerful, entities. It is the nature of the beast.

There is nothing wrong with large fish eating small fish in the 0.0 ocean. This is not a problem, I don't know why people keep trying to fix it.

Mortinha
Posted - 2011.02.01 22:18:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Magnus Orin

The lore behind the "local" channel is that it is connected to the stargate technology and only records when a pilot jumps into a system, and when they jump out.

Just because they appear in local does not mean that the universe or anyone in it knows where they are; only that they have not left the system.


What about cynosural fields? Jump portals? Wormholes? Its a broken mechanic if you come to think of it as a scientific method. For example, there is no way the stargate can know who left a wormhole as the wormhole itself dont keep track of individuals.

Another broken mechanic is the fact you cant warp to coordinate X, Y, Z without being there or have a bookmarkable object in overview. This is absurd. How can you send probes anywhere but your ship cant follow a probe signature? Try to imagine the game with free movement in systems... That would be a whole lot of new gameplay for us. Thats only an off-topic suggestion.

But, anyway, the problem wasnt local channel at all, just find a way to balance the impact of certain uncounterable technologies. If a cloaked ship approaches any object closer than 2km it decloaks, so the game didnt mean to make them undetectable forever. Actually, I can think of this 2km feature as the bubble-gate-camper whining about not being able to take down cloaked ships. What else would it be useful, _really_? Even if you consider transport ships, no one else benefits from this decloaking range if not campers, and, of course, one still may evade their approaching vectors. So, why CCP introduced it in first place? So they could say "hey, you can decloak him, if you get close enough in this huge, huge space". Gotta be a bad joke.

I cant think of afk cloakers being fair gameplay as there is no way you can counter it. So, this argument alone is enough reason for CCP to do something about it. Im sure cloaking can still be used for system scouting, hot droping, etc, but it just makes no sense to stay in a system as long as you please and remain unchallengeable. With all the technology available in the game you cant scan down a heat signature or something like that? Spare me...

Sem Nan
Posted - 2011.02.01 22:20:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Sem Nan on 01/02/2011 22:23:02
Is it me, or is the forum just a ***ch to post in today?

Anyway.. Damn right you're right, there's nothing wrong with the big fish trying to eat the little fish.

But the point i'll hammer again is that it's too easy to lockdown a system economically. Everything in EVE has a weak link or a counter tactic. AFK cov cyno alts, however, cannot be detected.. can't be easelly baited.. can't be rooted out.. doesn't run out of fuel and if he so desires, he can stay where he is for as long as he wants. Simply put, the AFK cyno alts who decide to live on contested systems cannot be countered. There's no paper to counter this rock that decides to sit in someone's path to enjoying the PVP on the game.



Making it so that the cov cyno alt has to leave from time to time to refuel his cloak wouldn't keep him from living in enemy territory, and wouldn't handicap 0.0. It simply would create a weak link in this tactic, just like every other tactic has it's weak link. Not to mention that it would create incentives for alliances to use different tactics. Like the CSM said, you want to create a disturbance in your enemies economy? Then you and your corp must be active. You either go refuel from time to time, or get more alts to relieve one another.


What you people think about a tactic that can't be countered? Like i said, it's all fun and games until it happens to you.

Corina Jarr
Posted - 2011.02.01 22:20:00 - [22]
 

I would only support this if fuel was free and unlimited in supplies.

Sem Nan
Posted - 2011.02.01 23:47:00 - [23]
 

The fuel could be dancers.. or marines.. or tourists....


Hehe.. anyway. I won't try to imagine what it could be. The point is that it should be very cheap and widely available.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.01 23:58:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Magnus Orin on 01/02/2011 23:58:32
Originally by: Sem Nan
Edited by: Sem Nan on 01/02/2011 22:23:02

What you people think about a tactic that can't be countered? Like i said, it's all fun and games until it happens to you.


I've lived in 0.0 my entire time playing Eve, so dont pull no "its all fun and games until it happens to you" crap.

I deal with afk reds in my staging systems on a daily basis. Its part of 0.0 life.

As far as a tactic that cannot be counter, what is to counter when what you want to counter has no ability to even target you, and by its nomenclature does not even have an active player behind it.

If you are asking for a counter to a hot drop, or a red local spike, well those are completely different discussions, and I'd suggest looking for answers for them here.

Jodi Goulsti
No Salvation
War.Pigs.
Posted - 2011.02.02 00:05:00 - [25]
 

Remove local. Problem solved.

Sem Nan
Posted - 2011.02.02 00:39:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Magnus Orin
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 01/02/2011 23:58:32

I deal with afk reds in my staging systems on a daily basis. Its part of 0.0 life.

As far as a tactic that cannot be counter, what is to counter when what you want to counter has no ability to even target you, and by its nomenclature does not even have an active player behind it.here.


I see.

How then do you run your anomalies, or how do your corp mates mine when there's one or more afk reds on your local?

ViolenTUK
Gallente
Demolition Men
Posted - 2011.02.02 00:40:00 - [27]
 

No problem detected so no solution required.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.02 00:52:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Ephemeron on 02/02/2011 00:54:52
the real solution will come when Local is nerfed. It is much more likely to happen than any such cloak fuel ideas.

At the root of the issue, you don't like that you see a face in local but nothing on scanner. If you see no face in local, and nothing on scanner, then you simply have no reason to complain about AFK cloakers. Right?

All problems with AFK cloakers go away when local chat is gone. Therefore, we should demand to nerf local sooner.

Quote:
How then do you run your anomalies
This is a valid issue, and the proper fix is to change the way anomalies respawn, so they aren't effected by cloakers. I support the idea of fixing respawning.

Misanthra
Posted - 2011.02.02 01:16:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Sem Nan
Originally by: Magnus Orin
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 01/02/2011 23:58:32

I deal with afk reds in my staging systems on a daily basis. Its part of 0.0 life.

As far as a tactic that cannot be counter, what is to counter when what you want to counter has no ability to even target you, and by its nomenclature does not even have an active player behind it.here.


I see.

How then do you run your anomalies, or how do your corp mates mine when there's one or more afk reds on your local?


if they are afk, not there to do anything lol...So you have to know when they are there.

Sometimes its real easy. Like one time, we had a tard kicked form corp who got us back by afk'ing the systems we had after hooking up with a more hostile crew in the area. Would have worked too...if we didn't know his rl schedule. Bad player with bad hours and a bad attitude. Bad hours part what we went off. On for the same 2 hours for a month or two, kind on knew not in those 2 hours he wasn't there.

Sometimes its hard. Bait the cloaky, see when he bites. If he bites a few hours before dt...most likely from the aussie tz (which has new zealand and asian country players). Dt fall in our primetime.

Bites us tz primetime but not at say morning hours EST...US player with a job or school a valid assumption.

have corp share notes. No reason why your the US tz shift should be running in fear of an afk cloaky who is sleeping then off to work in New Zealand. No reason why the aussie members should run in fear of US player who is sleeping then at work/school. Observation and communication are your friends.

Or as always....jump to a new system with your bait. If he follows, he is not afk. try to get him on the other side of the gate if motivated. If he does not follow...he is afk (or really disciplined and wants a better target to call a sc/black ops gang on). latter works out well for you either way....rat in that next system and have a nice day while the rest of your corp is hiding in station.

Failing that....unprobable t3 ratting. Its not jsut for ninjya ratting squatters in 0.0, you cna use it your own space just as well. Afk cloaky has to find you by hitting every thing in the system.

Sem Nan
Posted - 2011.02.02 01:16:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Edited by: Ephemeron on 02/02/2011 00:54:52
the real solution will come when Local is nerfed. It is much more likely to happen than any such cloak fuel ideas.

At the root of the issue, you don't like that you see a face in local but nothing on scanner. If you see no face in local, and nothing on scanner, then you simply have no reason to complain about AFK cloakers. Right?

All problems with AFK cloakers go away when local chat is gone. Therefore, we should demand to nerf local sooner.

Quote:
How then do you run your anomalies
This is a valid issue, and the proper fix is to change the way anomalies respawn, so they aren't effected by cloakers. I support the idea of fixing respawning.


So then what would be the point of living in 0.0? If local were removed, or even put into delayed mode, people would simply return to high-sec and run missions. The profit you get from missioning + salvaging with a Noctis alt is definatly higher than trying to run anomalies on a Military 5 system with no local. Because then you'd have Bounty - Ship-loss cost.

An average number for 0.0 anomaly running is 60mil/h. Add ship-loss cost to that, and you'd be lucky to even get half that. Well, 30mil/h i get from running missions in high-sec.


And lets not even get into the mining discussion..


As always.. I do not wish to offend anyone, but most comments i see about removing local come from people who might not fully understand how the game works as a whole. Its a cards castle. You remove that specific card, the whole thing falls apart.


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