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Apocryphon
Minmatar
InterSun Freelance
The Forsaken.
Posted - 2011.01.30 19:14:00 - [1]
 

Hi, I have done a few searches but not found anything so far.

So can anyone give me a link to any Chronicle or article or interview that explains how one gets to be a Capsuleer?
How is one selected?
Surely we dont just queue up outside the Capsuleer Recruitment Agency and wait for a vacancy?

Do all the races and Powers have the same method? Is there more than one method?

If you dont have a link to anything official in the Eve Canon, do you have your own working theory?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Apoc.



Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.01.31 03:18:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 31/01/2011 03:20:37

Originally by: Apocryphon
Hi, I have done a few searches but not found anything so far.

So can anyone give me a link to any Chronicle or article or interview that explains how one gets to be a Capsuleer?
How is one selected?
Surely we dont just queue up outside the Capsuleer Recruitment Agency and wait for a vacancy?

Do all the races and Powers have the same method? Is there more than one method?





Very good questions I've wondered about as well. Additional question -

The biggest problem I have with believing the Eve world is that capsuleers are made, given 5k isk, and allowed to do whatever they want. How come I can blow up 50 NPC battleships of the Amarr navy, fight a fleet of Amarr militia, and then dock without problems in an Amarr militia station? Or for that matter, set the Amarr militia station as my clone location, without any fear of the authorities simply turning my clone off when I kill too many of their corpmates.

Is there any bit of lore or fiction that tries to explain this gameplay mechanic?

TL;DR why can capsuleers do whatever they want, to anyone, and never be denied docking or cloning rights with anyone? And why do capsuleers have no obligation to the people that made them?

I'd imagine the Gallente Federation isn't thrilled with all the capsuleers they made who joined up with the Caldari and Amarr militias, or who took an anti-Gallente faction mission once.

Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
Posted - 2011.01.31 06:43:00 - [3]
 

I believe the factors have to do with mental fortitude, otherwise you end up locked in.

As for why pod pilots are allowed to go wild, I believe it's because pod pilots are very, very useful resource, but there's little that can be done to control them.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.01.31 07:06:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Aeo IV

As for why pod pilots are allowed to go wild, I believe it's because pod pilots are very, very useful resource, but there's little that can be done to control them.


How are they useful resources? My character has never been asked to do anything by the people that made it a capsuleer. And there is plenty the empires can do to control capsuleers - they can refuse them rights to dock, or more critically, use their cloning facilities. Why can a capsuleer dock, clone, and walk around a station in an empire that they have killed tens of thousands from?

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.31 13:43:00 - [5]
 

I believe these things are largely left up to our imagination (for which I'm very thankful). So I just imagine it a certain way that you may or may not agree with:

The way I see it, people who become capsuleers all graduate from specific institutions (a.k.a. noobcorps). For whatever personal reasons you can think of your character was enrolled in one of these corps. That much is set in stone, and you can't really work around that fact as it's forever etched into your employment history sheet.

I would imagine most don't join their academies with the intention of becoming a capsuleer because the odds that you are compatible with pod-tech are very low. In fact, I find it reasonable to believe that these agencies would surround their capsule programs with a healthy dose of red tape and secrecy. You would probably not even learn about it until your higher ups pluck you from your post. The way I envision it, the various academies run routine interviews and examinations that filter out the chosen ones from the masses of the unqualified. The purpose of these examinations are likely kept vague and shadowy. After your character finds out he/she is one of those rare few that passes the entry requirements they suddenly become the center of attention, and that is when they really fall down the rabbit hole...

Apocryphon
Minmatar
InterSun Freelance
The Forsaken.
Posted - 2011.01.31 16:28:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
I believe these things are largely left up to our imagination (for which I'm very thankful). So I just imagine it a certain way that you may or may not agree with:

The way I see it, people who become capsuleers all graduate from specific institutions (a.k.a. noobcorps). For whatever personal reasons you can think of your character was enrolled in one of these corps. That much is set in stone, and you can't really work around that fact as it's forever etched into your employment history sheet.

I would imagine most don't join their academies with the intention of becoming a capsuleer because the odds that you are compatible with pod-tech are very low. In fact, I find it reasonable to believe that these agencies would surround their capsule programs with a healthy dose of red tape and secrecy. You would probably not even learn about it until your higher ups pluck you from your post. The way I envision it, the various academies run routine interviews and examinations that filter out the chosen ones from the masses of the unqualified. The purpose of these examinations are likely kept vague and shadowy. After your character finds out he/she is one of those rare few that passes the entry requirements they suddenly become the center of attention, and that is when they really fall down the rabbit hole...


I like this, but it only works upto a point. If it was such a selective well thought out official process, how does that explain the large amount of phsyco whack jobs that get accepted into this exalted position? Do we say that the strain of conversion pulls a few wires loose in some people? Or that whackjobs are desirable to the authorities?
A corpie of mine suggests that there is a chance for capsuleers crew to be selected for advancement to Pod life immortality, probably after recommendation from the capsuleer but also by monitoring perhaps. This would help to explain the attraction for so many people to work as crew on ships that often give a very low life expectancy.

Thanks for the replies and supplemantary questions.
As I said, if anyone has any links to any info relating to this, even if fragmentary, please pass it on. Ta! Wink

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.01.31 17:03:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Auwnie Morohe on 31/01/2011 17:04:48
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
I believe these things are largely left up to our imagination (for which I'm very thankful). So I just imagine it a certain way that you may or may not agree with:

The way I see it, people who become capsuleers all graduate from specific institutions (a.k.a. noobcorps). For whatever personal reasons you can think of your character was enrolled in one of these corps. That much is set in stone, and you can't really work around that fact as it's forever etched into your employment history sheet.

I would imagine most don't join their academies with the intention of becoming a capsuleer because the odds that you are compatible with pod-tech are very low. In fact, I find it reasonable to believe that these agencies would surround their capsule programs with a healthy dose of red tape and secrecy. You would probably not even learn about it until your higher ups pluck you from your post. The way I envision it, the various academies run routine interviews and examinations that filter out the chosen ones from the masses of the unqualified. The purpose of these examinations are likely kept vague and shadowy. After your character finds out he/she is one of those rare few that passes the entry requirements they suddenly become the center of attention, and that is when they really fall down the rabbit hole...

I also like this.

Once in a pod it is inevitable that a certain amount of megalomania develops. Perhaps the Empires take the bad with the good they get the good being the mission runners fighting the pirate factions.Very Happy

Also one could imagine the Jove having a motive for the existence of pod pilots. If they do they can easily push the programs with isk and other stuff one uses to stimulate empire politics at the noob corps or rather higher up. I like the idea of the pod pilots being part of a grand scheme without them knowing about it.

Vendrin
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.01.31 18:12:00 - [8]
 

First you have genetic qualifiers. There is only an incredibly small percentile of the EVE population that can be a capsuleer. (I.E. Trillions of normal humans to few hundred thousand capsuleers)Exact genetic makeup is not known, but it has to do with being able to use the jovian influenced capsule. Which is interesting considering all the problems the jove have with their own genetics.

Second, you have to have a lot of training to prevent mindlock. Exact training is not described but it does likely have to do with mental strength. A small percentage(and continually going down thanks to improved training likely) after being plugged into a pod, when unplugged have complete paralysis. Their mind is still wired to the ship even though they are now unplugged basically.

As for why pod pilots can fly around and kill **** then dock in those stations, that's CONCORD. CONCORD regulates pod pilots and part of the deal the empires signed is that concord decides who and what can't dock basically, not the corporations. (player stations don't have to follow concord regs, cause they are outside concord space) The Empires agreed to this, because even the very small amount of capsuleers that choose to follow the empire make up for all the ones that go rogue.



Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:18:00 - [9]
 

Unfortunately game mechanics do not reflect some obvious standings issues, in a more perfect world people voicing support/acting for certain groups would be banned from docking in opposing stations. IE Silas sure as hell wouldn't be given docking rights in the Federation yet I can fly around there avoiding sentries and docking at any station I like. It's just something we have to work around.

I think the various factions all have their own methods for selecting and training capsuleers, part of the fun is imagining those different methods.

Something I haven't been able to wrap around PF wise, is why all of these military schools/educational universities would spend the millions of ISK to train these dangerious individuals and then say 'ok go play' and not require a non-negotiable term of service.

IE I highly, highly doubt the Imperial Navy would spend the money to train a capsuleer and then let them do as they please after graduating. Or the State would lose one 1sk by spending money funding State citizens to be capsuleers and then not getting a return on that investment. Any ideas?




Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.31 21:32:00 - [10]
 


I think there is another element at work, the factions don't really have a choice but to select and train increasing numbers of capsuleers. (It's a little like the MAD doctrine each side had enough ICBMS to destroy each other but they kept building more, under the fear of falling behind).

The majority of capsuleers do stay broadly loyal to their home faction, but in order to keep a handle on those that don't, and more importantly those of opposing factions they must stay in the race and train more and more of their own to retain stability (It's called a Nash Equilibrium).

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.01.31 23:27:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

I think there is another element at work, the factions don't really have a choice but to select and train increasing numbers of capsuleers. (It's a little like the MAD doctrine each side had enough ICBMS to destroy each other but they kept building more, under the fear of falling behind).

The majority of capsuleers do stay broadly loyal to their home faction, but in order to keep a handle on those that don't, and more importantly those of opposing factions they must stay in the race and train more and more of their own to retain stability (It's called a Nash Equilibrium).



But at the very least, there is a lot the empires can do to control capsuleers, and tax them. It's clear for gameplay reasons why they don't, but I don't see anything in the fiction that 'explains' this gameplay decision. I kind of wish CCP would make a chronicle or two to explain this.

As far as responsibilities of the capsuleer, I think it would make sense if capsuleers already worked, as capsuleers, before we as players got to use them, and their term of service expired and they're now free to roam about the galaxy. However, that directly contradicts a whole lot of the fiction.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2011.01.31 23:36:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Myxx on 31/01/2011 23:43:59
I might be losing my memory/sanity, but I believe there are bits and pieces of PF on all of this... somewhere. Not sure where I recall it from, but vaugely... I think Heth got into the Caldari Military because he was notified he wasn't compatible with being a capsuleer... at a rather young age.

Again, I might be wrong and that example might of never been published so I'll look around for it.

As for controlling capsuleers... from "The Elite"
Quote:
In the time since all the races came into contact with each other about 150 years ago interstellar trading has steadily increased, especially in the time since the races began cooperating more closely through institutes such as CONCORD.

Today a certain number of ships are equipped with a capsule, which makes control of the ship much more easy and efficient for the pilot (known as a ‘capsuleer’). Not just anybody can become a capsuleer. Captains need special kind of neural riggings and the training is extremely rigorous and taxing, with only a small fraction of students actually making it through. This makes able capsuleers a unique breed that possesses special status within society. Capsuleers are regarded by the empires as objects of huge prestige, since the number of interstellar traders an empire has in many ways reflects the economic vitality of the empire.

Despite the desire of the empires to keep their capsuleers on a leash, however, things have developed differently. Because of the capsuleers’ exalted status, they’ve managed as the years have passed to make themselves ever more independent from the empires that spawned them. While many capsuleers are still employees of an empire company or organization, the work they do is largely self-controlled. The ever-increasing number of capsuleers entering the market alleviates this problem for the empires and has allowed them to increase the number of capsuleers working for them despite the fact that proportionally more and more of these individuals are going totally independent. The independent ones, however, are setting up their own alliances and nation-states out on the fringe, slowly increasing their power and influence.

The prestige enjoyed by the capsuleer is enormous. Apart from the celebrity status many of them enjoy they receive a number of other privileges. The most important of these is their access to cloning, which is strictly supervised in all the empire
s. Although some rogue cloning stations are in operation the vast majority of cloning facilities are owned and run by the empires and the requirements for clone ownership are strict and rigorous. Capsuleers are one of very few professions that, due to the nature of their job, possess more or less unrestricted access to clones, although any special clone types must be paid for out of their own pockets.


also related PF:
The Jovian Wetgrave
PPCC Part 1: The Capsule and the Clone (short story)


Precentor Saggitus
Amarr
Expeditionary Defense Fleet
Posted - 2011.02.01 03:06:00 - [13]
 

Fiction-wise the Empyrean Age novel presents characters who are capsuleers who are also members of the military of one of the major factions.

In this light I would suspect that most capsuleers - at the start of the character's story (character generation) have already previously served under one of the faction's militaries, a tour of duty or some such. Having capsuleer powered fleets definitely is an advantage, so none of the Empires would fall behind in this advantage. While there is the potential for capsuleers to "go rogue" most capsuleers are retired from service - it is at this point your character's journey begins. Why let them loose? Obviously non-aligned capsuleers are a resource to the empires. Secondly, why would anyone serve an Empire at all which might treat its capsuleers as effectively Slave soldiers of indeterminate term of service? (Sansha has gotten around this problem) Capsuleers are also a source of income for the Empires. They're out there doing all the risky jobs. Mining (remember refining gets taxed - anyone know how much veldspar the empires collect on a daily basis through tax?) All sales are taxed as well - this is huge money for the interstellar corporations, not to mention access to goods (like WH tech) that otherwise would not make it into the market. While the Empires may occasionally deem a capsuleer as worthy of being hunted, the potential for revenue usually welcomes a Capsuleer to a station. Remember that the mega corporations of EVE probably exert a certain ammount of their own sovereignty. They might not like you, you might get taxed a lot to use their facilities and they may offer you no work, but they won't turn down an opportunity to tax you. Even if they don't like you, guess who you're going to pay to make a new clone should you die and wake up in a station who might not like you. Its all about business.


Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2011.02.01 04:07:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Precentor Saggitus
anyone know how much veldspar the empires collect on a daily basis through tax?



You got me curious... so I had to ask.

Apocryphon
Minmatar
InterSun Freelance
The Forsaken.
Posted - 2011.02.01 16:00:00 - [15]
 

Thanks guys, some good stuff for me to work with and a few other questions of interest raised.

Thanks also for those fiction titles for me to read/re-read.
All wery helpful. Smile

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.14 03:37:00 - [16]
 

You also can keep in mind population control. What was the original breaking point for the Terran Hegemony on the other side of Eve Gate? When resources, a vital part of the Eve world, reach peak resources, something has to happen. The Empires look upon Capsuleers as breaknecks to a burgeoning population. A population needs to be sustained. The Amarr had such a surplus of humanity, they enslaved it, and used it for the most menial and dangerous of tasks.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.02.14 10:36:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Apocryphon
Hi, I have done a few searches but not found anything so far.

So can anyone give me a link to any Chronicle or article or interview that explains how one gets to be a Capsuleer?
How is one selected?
Surely we dont just queue up outside the Capsuleer Recruitment Agency and wait for a vacancy?

Do all the races and Powers have the same method? Is there more than one method?

If you dont have a link to anything official in the Eve Canon, do you have your own working theory?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Apoc.





During the 1869 Gold Rush it wasn't the miners that made a lot of money, it was people selling things to the miners, providing services to the miners, and the general injection of cash that came from the infrastructure that built up to exploit the miners.

Now this isn't to say that only miners in EVE would turn a profit for the empires, but instead that all capsuleer activity is an enormous financial boon to the empires. Not to mention the benefit of being able to hire an extra-legal entity, who is also an elite military force in his or her own right, to handle problems you would rather be kept hush hush.

The answer is simple, someone did a cost to benefit analysis and decided the damage done by rogue capsuleers is a fair price to pay for the military, diplomatic, commercial, economic and intelligence advantages from having these potentially hazardous extra-legal immortals wandering the space lanes.

Or to put it simply, someone decided a few hundred thousand civilians dying each standard year was worth the hundreds of trillions of isk that could be made.

Math'ra Hiede
Amarr
Trinity's Vanguard
Posted - 2011.02.15 00:57:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium

Or to put it simply, someone decided a few hundred thousand civilians dying each standard year was worth the hundreds of trillions of isk that could be made.


You need to add a factor of ten or more, a few hunred million civilians each year by the rate at which you can annhilate mission objects and space crews, then again a few trillion ISK for an Empire is more than likely a **** in the bucket, so its likely hundreds of trillions

Jae Car'das
Minmatar
T.R.I.A.D
Posted - 2011.02.16 08:27:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Jae Car''das on 16/02/2011 08:30:47
Not totally related to your questions, but it helped me when describing how I became a pod pilot in my blog, this story here explains the first capsuleer test (non Jovian) and the fact that if the person plugged into the pod does not undergo extensive training and has a strong enough mind, they basically comatose themselves.

So I went along the route that only the select few that have particular genetic straits which make them mentally strong enough can even apply to the capsuleer schools in new eden. Bit like only people with highmidichlorians can become jedi Laughing

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.02.18 08:38:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Math'ra Hiede
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium

Or to put it simply, someone decided a few hundred thousand civilians dying each standard year was worth the hundreds of trillions of isk that could be made.


You need to add a factor of ten or more, a few hunred million civilians each year by the rate at which you can annhilate mission objects and space crews, then again a few trillion ISK for an Empire is more than likely a **** in the bucket, so its likely hundreds of trillions


Yes good point, my scale is way off.

SadisticSavior
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.21 21:03:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
Surely we dont just queue up outside the Capsuleer Recruitment Agency and wait for a vacancy?


In Burning Age it is explained that the process to become a Capsuleer is extremely unpleasant and extremely high risk (like the process can turn you into a vegetable). So there is not necessarily a lot of people standing in line for it.

Capsuleers are basically the equivalent of very very rich people even if they dont have a lot of money by Capsuleer standards...rich people are technically bound by laws, but because of their status they get away with stuff that poor people dont.


 

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