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Slantic
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.30 13:54:00 - [1]
 

I enjoy flying agile, fast ships. I realize that this does not allow me to put reasonable damage on large ships, so I feel that my best bet to be useful in a fleet or gang is to focus on killing frigates/interceptors/assault frigates.

Since I am Caldari, most of my points are spent in missiles and Caldari ships, so I'd like to stay in that family if possible.

My first thought was the assault frigate Hawk, noted for its size and speed (I do love small ships, and the Merlin hull in general). The downside is very tight fitting.

A fitting I've been playing with is:


[Hawk, Hawk]

4x Standard Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile)

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
2x Sensor Booster II (Scan Resolution)

Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

2x Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I

(3,700 ehp, 80 dps, 1.8k m/s, 1600mm scan res)

I don't like the Nanofiber in the low, but nothing else really fits.

My next thought was a destroyer, but the Cormorant is an abomination and uses hybrids, so that was a no.

Moving up to cruisers, the Caracal caught my eye as fairly quick, with reasonable damage potential.


[Caracal, Anti-frigate]

5x Assault Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile)

Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN Afterburner I

2x Ballistic Control System II

3x Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

2x Hobgoblin II

(18,000 ehp, 143 dps, 440 m/s, 278mm scan res)

This has superior range and damage with a bit more ehp (not that that matters if you get targeted), but isn't quite as fast as the Hawk and doesn't lock nearly as fast unless you sacrifice a LSE for a sebo.

Alternatively, a budget fit Caracal for when you expect to lose it:


[Caracal, Fleet Fit]

5x Assault Missile Launcher I (Bloodclaw Light Missile)

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler I
Invulnerability Field I
Large Shield Extender I
Cap Recharger I

2x Ballistic Control System I

2x Hobgoblin I

(11,000 ehp, 90 dps, 1k m/s, 278mm scan res)


Is there anything I'm missing? What would you suggest for a fairly agile anti-frigate platform, or to make these fits better?

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2011.01.30 14:48:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Stuart Price on 30/01/2011 14:48:59
This are probably the best for t1:

[Caracal - Doing it Right]

5 x AML II

1 x 10mn MWD I
1 x Warp Disruptor II
2 x Stasis Web II
1 x LSE II

2 x BCS II

2 x Warrior II (faster than Hobs, better tracking than Hobs, a more useful damage type than Hobs)

3 x CDFE or if you're feeling cheeky drop the webs to fleetings and stick 2 Rigors and a CDFE on

Fitting a Cerb up along similar lines is also nasty while the Navy Caracal is the daddy - it butchers small ships.

There's also Crash for when they really, really have to die NOW.

To critique your Hawk fit, a competent pilot in a decent combat frig (combat 'ceptor, faction frig etc) will see your sensor booster, take the first volley of missiles (probably for tiny damage) then scream, "YES", and smash your face to tiny pieces. Hawk works as a rocket-ab boat but not as providing point defence against tacklers.

There's also the usual suspects from the other races but you've already said you're flying Caldari.

Lilla Kharn
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.30 17:56:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 30/01/2011 17:56:24
I always find that Thrashers and Sabres work well against them wittle fwiggates.

Just read the whole Caldari part. Newb.

AM Caracel and such as posted above would work fine yes.

Laerise
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.30 17:57:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Laerise on 30/01/2011 17:59:10
Edited by: Laerise on 30/01/2011 17:58:56
If you don't care about tackle, use a coercer. They may have slightly less alpha than a thrasher but are better in almost any other aspect.

[Coercer, pulse]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Emergency Damage Control I
Adaptive Nano Plating II

1MN Afterburner II

Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Small Energy Burst Aerator I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I


Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.30 18:41:00 - [5]
 

By far the best option if restricted to Caldari:

Assault Caracal.

Nothing compares.
But for Goddess sake, do NOT T1 fit it, the beauty of it is that the "small" weapons leaves room for the whole she-bang .. use it, abuse it.

If there are not "a lot" of enemy frigates at any one time then a rocket Hookbill with twin-webs will be on par with the Caracal in effectiveness.

Kinta Huron
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.30 19:27:00 - [6]
 

Sabre and Vagabond immediately come to mind but, you want to stay Caldari.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.01.30 19:58:00 - [7]
 

Solo:

[Caracal, AML]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile

Warrior II x2

Shield or mobility rigs if you like. To cheapify it, just drop down to T1.

Gang - something along the lines of:

[Caracal, AML copy 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Sensor Booster II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I

Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Warrior II x2

Again, you can cheapify it if you really want to, but it's only a Caracal. Tactics are to get out to 70 km away from people and spam missiles and TD someone. The WD II isn't really that useful, you can drop it for more ewar if you like.

Whatever you do, don't take a gang Caracal up close to enemy damage dealers, and don't ever fit an afterburner.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.30 20:26:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 30/01/2011 20:27:41
Your Hawk fit is just...not very good for anything.

Firstly, the flare catalysts...not really useful unless you want to use rage missiles.

The warp scrambler is pointless to use with standard missile lanuchers. The point of using SMLs is range. If you're fit with a scram, might as well fit rockets.


3.7k EHP is really, really small for an AF. You have absolutely no tank. You're unlikely to survive against anything other than t1 frigates.

Scan resolution is not really needed for anti-frigate work. SBs can be useful for tackle interceptors and some larger ships, but not on any other frigate.


If you want to use a hawk, here's something I came up with (though I don't really like it, as it wastes the shield boost bonus..)

[Hawk, Rockets]
Ballistic Control System II
F85 Peripheral Damage System I

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I

9.2k EHP, 136 DPS (with max skills).


I wouldn't say Caldari AFs are good at frigate-hunting in a fleet, though, as they're rather anemic with regards to DPS (unless you failfit a harpy with blasters). In a fleet you want to be able to quickly and simply take out tacklers and other annoying frigs. To this end I would recommend a destroyer.


Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.01.30 20:32:00 - [9]
 

AML caracal
AML navy caracal
AML cerberus


these things murder frigates by the dozen when AML fit.

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2011.01.30 20:35:00 - [10]
 

I swear there's an echo in this thread... :)

Lili Lu
Posted - 2011.01.30 20:49:00 - [11]
 

You're all doing this wrong. The best anti-frigate Caldari ship is an 8 smartie Rokh sat on the frigates' outgateRazz

I likegirls
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.30 23:41:00 - [12]
 

I heard a titan can DD any frigate with 1 hit.

Slantic
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.31 00:40:00 - [13]
 

Thanks for all the replies.

It looks like the Caracal and related upgrades is my best bet, although if I was going to move to a destroyer, it would have to be the Thrasher (unlikely though, because calculating optimal ranges and getting to those ranges is just a hassle cause I'm a missile baby).
The only problem with using long-range missiles as I see it is the travel time, during which someone else could target the frigate and smack it with projectiles or lasers and make my locking for naught. And with a scan res of 280mm, will I be able to lock frigates in time to do anything?
As much as I like lasers, the Coercer would take too long to train for efficiently (I trained some Minmatar stuff when I just started and didn't know to focus training).

It looks like the Hawk is more of a can-flipper/high-sec griefer than a fleet/gang combatant, which makes me sad.


Originally by: Lili Lu
You're all doing this wrong. The best anti-frigate Caldari ship is an 8 smartie Rokh sat on the frigates' outgateRazz


You mean something like this?

[Scorpion, Smartbombs]

2x Large EMP Smartbomb II
2x Large Graviton Smartbomb II
Large Plasma Smartbomb II
Large Proton Smartbomb II

2x Invulnerability Field II
2x Heavy Capacitor Booster II
4x Large Shield Extender II

2x Shield Power Relay II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II


Not as many highs as a Rokh, but you can have some fun in SiSi with that.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.31 01:41:00 - [14]
 

Quote:

It looks like the Hawk is more of a can-flipper/high-sec griefer than a fleet/gang combatant, which makes me sad.



You fit the hawk poorly. The hawk is actually quite good because rockets have absurd range for a close-range weapon system, and standard missiles do awesome damage for a long-range weapon system. Its only major problem is that it can't actually use its shield rep bonus, but it's not a bad ship at all.

Two Shots
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.31 04:35:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Two Shots on 31/01/2011 04:40:50
@Slantic:


Hey there, TEST buddy. The people on this forum, between the ones with no interest in helping you (i.e., just flaming you for flying Caldari) and the ones who are ignorant of our target environment (i.e., anyone who recommends rockets), will probably not be able to give you much useful advice. But that's okay! I'm here to help.

For the targets you are likely to encounter out in Cloud Ring/Deklein/Fountain, you will be very well served by a Caracal fit with Assault Missile Launchers. The reason the Caracal is so good is because it has the range bonus which allows it to project even Light Missiles to a respectable distance. Most fleet engagements happen well beyond the range of close-range weapons, so this is important.

Even if you want your primary role to be anti-tackle support, having the extra range provided by Light Missiles on a Caracal versus Rockets on anything will let you apply greater real damage to more targets, especially in laggy fights where you only get to shoot once every minute or so. A common situation for anyone in a fleet fight to encounter is that whatever it is they've decided to shoot is an already-dead overview ghost; so, having the ability to shoot at more targets at any given time (due to more of them being within range of your longer range in a Caracal) will result in both more killmails and more actual damage projected and buddies helped.

If you need a Caracal, I can sell you one in JU- already fit and ready to rock for 5 million.


edit:
As a parting word, you would be better off taking questions like this to the goonfleet forums than to ask the people on EVE-O. People on the goonfleet forums will be able to speak from experience living and fighting in the areas and situations you are likely to face, and are prone to reward shobon newbie questions with ISK showers and intentionally bad advice rather than the angry flames and unintentional bad advice offered on EVE-O. On the other hand, these special souls in S+M at EVE-O are the type of brain-dead malcontents who think putting a 2 billion ISK module on their ship so that it completes missions 5% faster in high-security space is a good investment.

Knawt Ongrid
Posted - 2011.01.31 05:08:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Two Shots
Whiney essay about posters on S&M, too long to read thoroughly


Seems like someone is sad that another long essay of his about missiles, that should have been posted in features and ideas anyway, is not receiving raven reviews and acolytes Laughing

Are you really a goon taking this game so seriously, and getting mad?

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.01.31 05:35:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Two Shots
If you need a Caracal, I can sell you one in JU- already fit and ready to rock for 5 million.


This man speaks the truth.

I have also heard good things about rocket kestrels as well (one guy defeated several MSE tanked rifters in a row), they may be worth a good try. I would love to see what such a Kestrel could do to a SB.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.01.31 05:41:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 31/01/2011 05:44:28
Originally by: Two Shots
On the other hand, these special souls in S+M at EVE-O are the type of brain-dead malcontents who think putting a 2 billion ISK module on their ship so that it completes missions 5% faster in high-security space is a good investment.


You're thinking of Battleclinic. Expensive fits get flamed here pretty hard.

-Liang

Ed: Oh, and the rest of what he said is pretty reasonable. AML Caracals are win.

Two Shots
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.31 05:42:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Two Shots on 31/01/2011 06:02:20
Edited by: Two Shots on 16/08/2006 11:16:35
Originally by: Knawt Ongrid
Originally by: Two Shots
Whiney essay about posters on S&M, too long to read thoroughly


Seems like someone is sad that another long essay of his about missiles, that should have been posted in features and ideas anyway, is not receiving raven reviews and acolytes Laughing

Are you really a goon taking this game so seriously, and getting mad?

I'm a goon who's answering a question posed by one of our allies, and directing him to where he can find more relevant information.

I am ironically furious that you dared to insult my space ehonoure.


edit1:
I'd rather have disciples than acolytes, but I think the word you were searching for was "accolades".
I'm also pretty sure I know everything I need to know about Caldari Battleships.

fake-edit-1:
oh crap I'm showing off how mad I am again

fake-edit-2:
You can't compete with me when it comes to bad posting; I am the most terriblest poster in Goonfleet.

edit2:
buttes

edit3:
dongues

edit4:
o7 The Mittani sends his regards! o7

edit5:
In which I realize that you don't have to add new text in order to hit the Update button and receive a new edit date.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.01.31 05:57:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Knawt Ongrid
Originally by: Two Shots
Whiney essay about posters on S&M, too long to read thoroughly


Seems like someone is sad that another long essay of his about missiles, that should have been posted in features and ideas anyway, is not receiving raven reviews and acolytes Laughing

Are you really a goon taking this game so seriously, and getting mad?


OMG have a look at how dumb you are!

Two Shots
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.31 06:03:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Headerman
Originally by: Knawt Ongrid
Originally by: Two Shots
Whiney essay about posters on S&M, too long to read thoroughly


Seems like someone is sad that another long essay of his about missiles, that should have been posted in features and ideas anyway, is not receiving raven reviews and acolytes Laughing

Are you really a goon taking this game so seriously, and getting mad?


OMG have a look at how dumb you are!

BFF ♥ TESTies

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.01.31 06:10:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Two Shots
Originally by: Headerman
Originally by: Knawt Ongrid
Originally by: Two Shots
Whiney essay about posters on S&M, too long to read thoroughly


Seems like someone is sad that another long essay of his about missiles, that should have been posted in features and ideas anyway, is not receiving raven reviews and acolytes Laughing

Are you really a goon taking this game so seriously, and getting mad?


OMG have a look at how dumb you are!

BFF ♥ TESTies


♥♥ BFF Goonies ♥♥

Max Hardcase
The Scope
Posted - 2011.01.31 10:14:00 - [23]
 

AML caracals are why destroyers are niche ( other than destroyer specific problems).

Jihn Anolar
Minmatar
Autistic Sharks
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.31 10:34:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Two Shots
As a parting word, you would be better off taking questions like this to the goonfleet forums than to ask the people on EVE-O.


Just sayin, we only get access to the capitalism forum.

Just sayin. :(

But OP, pretty much everything this gewn said is correct.

Julien Brellier
Posted - 2011.01.31 11:47:00 - [25]
 

Huginn with dual webs.

pew pew dead frigate.

Ira Astrum
Posted - 2011.01.31 13:53:00 - [26]
 

The Hookbill has always worked well for me with a Loki boosting.
Extremely well, in fact.

If you happen to have a friend/alt with a Loki booster then I'd give this fit a go:


[Caldari Navy Hookbill, Hookbill - PvP]
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Dread Guristas Stasis Webifier
Dread Guristas Warp Scrambler
Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Auxiliary Thrusters I
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

Frankly I haven't come across a solo frigate that can trump it. Also, whilst it seems expensive to look at remember that it's still cheaper than a Dram or DD.

Concubinia Scarlett
Posted - 2011.01.31 16:50:00 - [27]
 

Assault Missile nano drake with an oversize propulsion mod. Because... well, just because you can.

Two Shots
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:08:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Jihn Anolar
Originally by: Two Shots
As a parting word, you would be better off taking questions like this to the goonfleet forums than to ask the people on EVE-O.


Just sayin, we only get access to the capitalism forum.

Just sayin. :(

But OP, pretty much everything this gewn said is correct.

You don't even get access to squad forums like Boot Camp? That sucks.

Two Shots
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:21:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Two Shots on 01/02/2011 00:39:13
Originally by: Ira Astrum
The Hookbill has always worked well for me with a Loki boosting.
Extremely well, in fact.

If you happen to have a friend/alt with a Loki booster then I'd give this fit a go:


[Caldari Navy Hookbill, Hookbill - PvP]
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Dread Guristas Stasis Webifier
Dread Guristas Warp Scrambler
Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Auxiliary Thrusters I
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

Frankly I haven't come across a solo frigate that can trump it. Also, whilst it seems expensive to look at remember that it's still cheaper than a Dram or DD.

Look at dat pubbie fit.



edit to add content:
The reason why I openly mock this fit is not because it's a bad fit. I have no doubt that it performs very well in an environment suited to its combat style. The reason I mock this fit is because it presumes the sort of battlefield dynamic which is simply not relevant to the OP. The OP of this thread is not in a corp where individual merit, split-second decisions, individual ships and daring tactics are decisive factors. The fit that I quoted is probably great for ~WULFPAX~ where that sort of small-gang dynamic is feasible and relevant.

But the OP is not going to be running around someplace where ~WULFPAX~ are feasible or relevant. The OP is going to be running around someplace where a dog barking in his ear via Teamspeak is going to prevent him from hearing the dog owner's fleet commands. The OP is going to be fighting in a battlefield dynamic where CCP's terrible inability to handle lag during large-scale fights will result in the OP and all of his friends dying to a couple of bombs before they even finish loading grid. The OP is going to be fighting in a battlefield dynamic where weapons cycle maybe once or twice per minute if you're lucky. The OP is going to be fighting in a situation where half the things on the overview that show up as neutrals are actually friendlies, and half the hostiles don't show up on the overview at all. The OP is not going to be some dashing space rogue who narrowly escapes death time and time again while living the life of an adventuring pirate or vigilante. The OP is going to die. The OP is going to die a lot. The OP is going to die for reasons that were not his fault, and as a result of things entirely beyond his control. The OP is going to be provided completely free ships to do that in, too, so long as they are fleet-approved ships (which the above fit is not).

Your fit might be great for ~WULFPAX~ in a low-lag situation where you can be reasonably sure that the game will respond to your commands, and that your input has some bearing in the success or failure of your mission or the survival or destruction of your ship. It is also a hilarious lossmail and angry chatlogs waiting to happen, since I have no doubt that anyone flying it whose screen suddenly locks up due to lag and finds himself mysteriously in his clone station would be rather miffed and unwilling to spend that much on it again and again. When planning for the type of fights we regularly experience in nullsec sovereignty warfare, we like to keep things as cheap as we can for the effectiveness and effort.

Knawt Ongrid
Posted - 2011.01.31 21:39:00 - [30]
 

Yep, two shots, you and headerman are mad.

BTW, your diatribe was wrong. None of the posts above appear to me to be mean-spirited trolls or attacks on the OP.

Anyway, can't you leave your political propaganda out of here and keep it on CAOD? I don't give rat's ass about your 17th crusade against BOB/IT. Most poeple on here don't give a **** which one of you destroys the other's fleet or supercap on any given day. And, even if they do they don't come to this forum to talk about it. Why don't you do the same. Thanks.


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