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Jaik7
Posted - 2011.01.31 14:42:00 - [211]
 

sad story imminent

i flew a caracal in the obray incursion, with a nine man fleet at a vangaurd site. it was destroyed moments before the objective was completed, and in the time it took me to grab my logi osprey i'd set up in a station for just such an occasion, the objective was finished and i got nothing.

the next vangaurd site, the exact same thing happened with my osprey.

at this point, i'm somewhere between fifteen and twenty million isk down on a two month old character, and so i quickly grab a condor fit to tackle so i can chase down those pesky logi maras and help the fleet kill them. i managed to survive the next vangaurd site, but by this time two more players had joined, so when the objective was completed, we got nothing.

call me a whining carebear, but i don't think this is fair. I understand why the pay restrictions for people who are in the wrong ships or outside of the site, but i'd like something for all my trouble. i'd take half, or even quarter rewards for people who are in fleet but are not properly participating.

i'm not particularly annoyed at ccp or anything, i knew what i was getting into when i fleeted up. but still, i'd like some compensation. maybe, when the site is completed by the fleet, concord gives a nod to all the guys who got popped by giveing them a fraction of the isk their ship was worth.

furthermore, i'd like a better system for finding a fleet. just spamming the incursion chat room with shield logi wants fleet! or some such nonsense is boring, and often disappointing. i'd like an eharmony for eve, where it sees what ship you have, and you tell it what kinds of sites you want to run, and it puts you in a fleet till the fleet hits the max capacity for whichever site.

about vangaurd sites being so much harder than scouts, just look at the rewards! 50k isk and 50 lp base for scouts to 15m isk and 2k lp base for vangaurd. with that much difference in reward, you should really expect a similar jump in difficulty.

support for roving sanshas. this is an incursion, yet it seems like most of the aggresive action is taken by the defenders. i'd have players have to fight off sanshas in order to even use the standard facilities like jump gates and stations. i'd also have the corporations which own the stations set up a ransom for their stations and gates, so there is financial incentive to clearing them.

thanks for listening to the rant. the incursions are awesome!

Daedalus II
Helios Research
Posted - 2011.01.31 15:37:00 - [212]
 

A thought:

If incursions in low sec prevented warp scramblers to work in the affected systems, would that make them more interesting? Or would they still be left out?

Without warp scramblers there is a much smaller chance of getting killed in a gatecamp on the way there, but it's still a lot more dangerous than high sec.

Asaface
Mafia Redux
Posted - 2011.01.31 16:07:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Asaface on 31/01/2011 16:50:34
This is getting a little silly tbh.

They are disappearing way too quickley now, everyones got the fleet comps down, got the contacts, and alot of people are moving to an incursion, not being able to play and missing out on the fun.

It varies but about 5-15 of our guys are missing out by not being able to take part

UN-NERF SANSHA PLZ Evil or Very Mad

EDIT - to the above poster if they did that how would sansha scram the noobs? XD but yeah wouldnt be hard to implement only sansha can scram but then no pvp would take place anyway because everyone would just warp out as soon as they got engaged to save their shineys

Your Client
Posted - 2011.01.31 16:07:00 - [214]
 

Fix the timers. Make them harder. Theyre getting defeated too fast.

Carvan Blake
Posted - 2011.01.31 16:29:00 - [215]
 

I agree with some of the thoughts here regarding immersion. Right now, I can fly through a system with an active incursion and ignore it in complete safety. How about Gate rats that scram, station rats that are aggressive etc? Naturally people will hate these changes, but for God's sake the Sansha are supposed to be attacking us - it's not meant to be easy.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.31 16:57:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Your Client
Fix the timers. Make them harder. Theyre getting defeated too fast.


Then the null sec incursions will have even less chance of ever getting defeated. What they need to do is give sov-null bears a reason to defeat them instead of waiting it out. Have sansha destroy all infrastructure and upgrades and reset sov if undefeated, and stop moo goo production meanwhile.

Flybiere
Gallente
Intergalactic Shrimp Emporium
Posted - 2011.01.31 17:01:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Jaik7
sad story imminent

The sad story bit about cruisers in vanguard sites

thanks for listening to the rant. the incursions are awesome!


In my experience even a meanly buffered cruiser is going to have trouble here.

Your logi pilots are gna have to be freaking quick to lock AND rep you before you go pop.

I have seen a few BCs go in without issue but when I was in there in my Cruiser it went pop despite 3 logi's and a fleet of 6 BSs with RR. The alpha on those Vanguard sites can be too damn high.

Anyway, my suggestion to you would be a nicely buffered Drake and make sure you have a few BSs with large Shield RRs and Logi's with the same.

My 2 ISKies.

Dr Nefarius
Posted - 2011.01.31 17:04:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
Have the Sansha influence meter affect moon goo output. Sansha influence is 100% then moon goo output is 0%. Sansha influence is 70% then moon goo output is 30%.


Please dear CCP make it so.

0.0 powerblocks crumling as they are attacked by rats ugh



Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2011.01.31 18:05:00 - [219]
 

the commander outpost (the vanguard one with the frigates) is way too easy and needs to be moved down to scout level or needs more cruisers/BSs added. It's a little ridiculous to get 10m per person (100m per site!) plus 1400 LP for burning down 30 frigates, which in proper ships can be done in less than 10 minutes.

The override transfer array is too long, too troublesome, too annoying to bother with as it stands on TQ. Move the beacons closer, have the logi array hack last longer, and make the can move/respawn faster after the array turns back on.

for assaults, i think the civilian outpost one seems to be pretty decently balanced.

the nation commander stronghold (assault) needs a slight nerf, there seems to be way too many ships in the starting wave (something like 6-8 sansha BS, 10-15 cruisers, tons of frigates). Was much harder than the civilian outpost.

noldevin
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:18:00 - [220]
 

Incursions need to last longer and respawn new ones quicker. Originally the recovery by sanshas was too fast, but now sites are down in a day and none are replacing them. We are down to two incursions, one in null and one in lowsec. While I personally am willing, it's very difficult to get any decent number of people to participate in the more dangerous locations.

So 1) New sites need to spawn quicker
2) Now that the sansha control regen is nerfed, capsuleer progress needs to be slowed as well.
3) There should never be a lack of sites in hisec as it's nearly impossible to get a group to commit to lowsec incursions unless you join a corp/alliance that specifically does this.

Emmy Mnemonic
Amarr
Lone Gunmen
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:19:00 - [221]
 

It's been said before in this thread, just adding mine to the others so you at CCP refactor the site a bit:

The Vanguard Override transfer array needs to be changed in SOME way. Compared to the other vanguards its ridiculously tedious, takes waaaaaay to long to complete given the rewards. AND, even though you get the message that the site is complete, the darned Sanshas keep spawning, scrambling half of your fleet so you can't get out without loosing some of your fleet members! Not to mention you have to keep on hacking the logistics towers so you can pop the darned sanshas-rats while you get absolutely nothing for your effort AFTER the site is already completed...

So, please CCP, refactor these sites!

Also, as stubborn as Cato: "CONCORD LP Store delenda est!". More new cool stuff for high-sec usage in ships etc. Less non-cool captial named stuff that can only be used in low/nullsec.

Nefera Sen
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:21:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: Carvan Blake
I agree with some of the thoughts here regarding immersion. Right now, I can fly through a system with an active incursion and ignore it in complete safety. How about Gate rats that scram, station rats that are aggressive etc? Naturally people will hate these changes, but for God's sake the Sansha are supposed to be attacking us - it's not meant to be easy.


This

Michwich
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:31:00 - [223]
 

Edited by: Michwich on 31/01/2011 19:35:13
Edited by: Michwich on 31/01/2011 19:34:33
I like it, the whole concept is great, could be the premise of the whole game, fighitng off incursions trying to reclaim systems...
however, I dont like the reward system, you should get points for damage, hacking, support whatever, doesnt matter what the fleet. Warping into a spawn camp is ... . Itd be nice to be able to blob up from far away and attack whatever way you planned. Id like to see more incursions that spread to other systems, lower system security, distruping trade, randomly warping to gates, more less threatening sansha floating around, more stuff to shoot at, more volume less intensive, more effect on the economy.


Annie Hamalia
Squadron of Angels
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:37:00 - [224]
 

as for me, it would be good to get possibility of solo pwp with Sansha

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:43:00 - [225]
 

As a newer player still in high-sec space, Incursions so far have been nothing more than a rumor read on a web site.


Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:53:00 - [226]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 31/01/2011 19:56:05
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Your Client
Fix the timers. Make them harder. Theyre getting defeated too fast.


Then the null sec incursions will have even less chance of ever getting defeated. What they need to do is give sov-null bears a reason to defeat them instead of waiting it out. Have sansha destroy all infrastructure and upgrades and reset sov if undefeated, and stop moo goo production meanwhile.


Or... make the rewards worth the effort. If they are a bit harder and pay out less than the plexes we already have, why would we bother. They need to be harder and pay out much more. You forget, unlike high sec, we aren't sitting around doing missions 23/7. Give us piles of RR caps and BS and a fitting reward and we might postpone shooting other alliances long enough to save our carebears (and to pay for more shiny).

Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.01.31 21:00:00 - [227]
 

Lack variation - the sites can be easily farmed by an experienced crew because the sites never change.

Too quick - the constellation is so quickly "liberated" it's not even a challenge. I thought CCP was going to make every incrusion a "long hard struggle" that is going to make killing the mothership a glorious act and rewarding by itself, but now it's LOL MOTHERSHIP DOWN AGAIN.

Scout sites: 50,000 ISK 50 LP.
vs.
Vanguard sites: 15,000,000 ISK 2,000 LP.
LOL SCOUT SITES. (I think the problem is obvious enough I don't even have to say it.)

bgummer
Gallente
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.01.31 21:34:00 - [228]
 

lots of great feedback in this thread, id like to point out that incursions have turned out to be more popular than many of us originally thought they would be. then you guys pretty much eliminated regen of the control. now we have a lot more people than we do content.

to me a good solution here is to add an incursion or two to high sec, and have a new one pop when one is defeated (or at least short after, not the majority of a day it is now). the current state of the rewards system is frustrating but its not driving the players away.

TL:DR I want more space zombies!!!!!

n00n3r
Caldari
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2011.01.31 21:36:00 - [229]
 

Edited by: n00n3r on 31/01/2011 21:40:01
On the whole I think CCP did a pretty good job on the Incursions.

Sure, I think Scout sites should be harder. For a group just starting out trying to learn sites, they are not really a good indicator of the difficulty of these sites.

Vanguard sites seem to be about right though. sure they are hard, if your not ready for them. But once players get a little experience under their belt they become trivial fairly quickly. I've personally seen everything from 4 man fleets to 12 man fleets succeeding on them.

Override transfer arrays do seem to take longer than any of the other Vanguard sites to run. Perhaps a longer vulnerability timer might be in order.

Assault sites seem to need a little love, The overwhelmed Civilian Facility is much easier than the Nation Commander Stronghold. I haven't tried the Consolidation network yet, but if the ship restrictions are as bad as what others have stated, they certainly warrant a look.

So far I'm unimpressed with what I have seen on the HQ sites, although I've only witnessed actions in the Kundalini Manifest, It seems that the payout bell curve could get tightened. When I see fleets that double the recommended site size still getting pay outs, it seems to trivialize the content. why challenge yourself if you can zerg it and still get paid?

anyways, my 2 isk
n00n

Deterro
Caldari
Atlantean Defense Fleet
Motivated and Determined
Posted - 2011.01.31 21:55:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: Tomaso Yo****ome
Please make failing to complete / fight off Incursions have real consequences!

i.e. failure to fight off an incursion will drop the security status of a system, say just the Headquarter system for the Sansha in that constellation. This would have real and dynamic consequences, especially if the Sansha dropped a 0.5 to a 0.4 in a key hub system.



Well that would be beneficial for systems below 0.4, and would lead to numerous issues: systems at 0.1 would become 0.0, which would give players teh ability to conquer Empire space, and also would be lovely for 0.0 systems, where the close to true -1.0 is actually good. No, i think that this would give many people problems or benefit them for doing... nothing

Elder Chaz
Posted - 2011.02.01 00:12:00 - [231]
 

incursions is a big republic relations disaster

Norman Vales
Minmatar
Xim-Retni
Posted - 2011.02.01 02:55:00 - [232]
 

The pay scale could use some recalibration. In my opinion, the first ones to the sites should be getting the payments. (Bail rules still apply!)

Lock in the site-activator's fleet, if they are in one. The super-carrier sites would likely be the exception. Those who get locked in should be limited to the highest recommended number. Those who warp in after the site is 50% complete won't get anything. The same goes for those who warp in and out repeatedly (I see this as a bail for non-participants), and other non-participants.

Chuc Morris
Posted - 2011.02.01 04:56:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: bgummer
lots of great feedback in this thread, id like to point out that incursions have turned out to be more popular than many of us originally thought they would be. then you guys pretty much eliminated regen of the control. now we have a lot more people than we do content.

to me a good solution here is to add an incursion or two to high sec, and have a new one pop when one is defeated (or at least short after, not the majority of a day it is now). the current state of the rewards system is frustrating but its not driving the players away.

TL:DR I want more space zombies!!!!!


To bring more ppl down town (Low/null) you need a lot more incursions but not in high sec.

Harder and with real penalities, destroying sov and player structures/pos gatecamps.
It's a very good idea to bring ppl back to those systems, don't you think? Laughing

ArtimusClydeFrog
Posted - 2011.02.01 07:16:00 - [234]
 

Got the impression that incursions would be everywhere once they went live. At the moment it's a bit lame.

Winters Chill
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.02.01 09:02:00 - [235]
 

Concord LP store is dull and unimaginative, looks placeholder, late alpha and poorly conceived.

Concord faction ships? Concord low grade faction implants? Other cool stuff? Where is it? Make incursions worth it, without just dolling out reams of cash.

prospector oen
Posted - 2011.02.01 09:39:00 - [236]
 

CCP really need a follow up content expansion and some additions to incursions ( and not just leave it like they did with factional warfare) to rescue this public relatiosn disaster.

Theres been one low sec incurion that hasnt moved 2 of the 00 ones were.

Now theyve nerfed low sec a lot over the last 12 months

* factional bs bonus spawns in low sec anamolies were removed
* 950k rats got nerfed and now youre lucky to find a 800k rat
* now incursions have appeared in one low sec constellation and cause no one lives there no more have respawned
* the rewards store and impact of low sec incursions so far is wheres wally
* null sec ones are being done only cause they are a logistical impedment
* high sec are full of bears

So is this what u want ccp looks like it is

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2011.02.01 11:26:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: noldevin
Incursions need to last longer and respawn new ones quicker.

prospector oen
Posted - 2011.02.01 11:52:00 - [238]
 

respawn neew ones quicker yes

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2011.02.01 11:53:00 - [239]
 

Edited by: Julianus Soter on 01/02/2011 12:31:01
The Kagol (Kakol*. . . the news item spelling is incorrect) constellation incursion really was a travesty. The fact that the people that actually earned just rewards... didn't get anything for the hours of time they put in to defeat the incursion, is absurd.

If this was a level 4 mission bug, where for a single day no Lp's were rewarded, you'd see a mass exodus of players.

As of now, the entire experience from Kagol tells the eve online player base one thing: It's not worth it to do the incursions.

Would it really have been that hard to look at the Lp logs, which CCP made for this explicit purpose, and award the Lp's from those records? It's very easy to check who did what and when.

CCP, if you want people to play this expansion, this needs immediate reconsideration.

Otherwise, it's all been a massive failure.

prospector oen
Posted - 2011.02.01 12:19:00 - [240]
 

maybe they should shift to low sec and defeat the joas constellation


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