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Posted - 2011.01.29 16:22:00 - [121]

I have a few issues.

1. - There needs to be a grace period before ships get targeted and killed.
in my fleet, as soon as the BS warped in, they died right away, not giving them time to
come out of warp and start targeting.

Many people have notice this, and i believe it needs to be fixed.

As PILOT * (Thalis Malu) says:
""One thing I think that needs to be work on is the reaction time that Sansha have to arriving fleets. As mentioned before on warp in the alpha is massive and happens within the first second of a ship arriving on grid. If you happen to arrive even slightly before the rest of your fleet and don't have a huge buffer you're likely going to be space junk before logi even has a chance to blink.

One example from last night was when my Hyperion with a 120k EHP buffer along with 2 'phoons warped into a HQ or Vanguard (can't recall) can slightly before our logi team did. One of the phoons went down in seconds just as our logi team arrived. I was primed next and as my logi team was just getting oriented I had already been kicked down to 60-70% armor. By the time they realize wtf was happening I was down to 20% armor and just barely warped out with my ship. Total time of that entire event was about 10-15 seconds. Granted, we made a few mistakes in that site but still.

I really think the quick reaction time of the Sansha needs to be toned down just a smidged. Nothing serious, and absolutely nothing like mission rats, but give them a slight dely in realizing "oh **** capsuleers on grid"

10 seconds would be pushing it and is probably way to long of a delay. I'd say just give us a 5 second window of Sansha getting their ducks aligned. 5 seconds is really all you should need for FC to asses the situation, call a target, and logi team to have at least started to get set up.

This way at least the first person in isn't insta-melted.

2. - When doing sites, People who arrive at the very last minute are getting rewarded for things
they did not do. and the main fleet that did most of the work has to share their rewards
with people who come in in shuttles and other ships,
just to hop on the rewards.

We have noticed this many times and it needs to be fixed.
Don't come at the very last minute and get rewards that others have worked for.

There needs to be a timer. which a fleet or pilot has to be in that incursion,
or your fleet or single ninja pilot gets nothing.
Because there are alot of ninja pilots showing up at the last minute,
and getting rewards for work they did not do.

3. - Mothership HQ Flagship kill -
Not fair that a fleet working hard on killing the Flagship, gets jipped and robbed from the drops
from some ninja pilot in a shuttle or frigate runs over and steals it, someone who did not work for it and
who just came into the incursion goes over and snatches the prize.

Here is my idea, Only fleets that been in the incursion from the beginning
or within the timer time frame and work hard and that are in the incursion get the drops.
And the ninja pilot would be blocked from stealing it.

Because many in fleet have lost valuable ships with very expensive fittings.
I believe its unfair for those pilots to be jipped.

As PILOT *(Marconus Orion) says:
""A gang of noob ships in a site just hanging around looting and letting another fleet do all the work and they get a reward when the site is complete too is just wrong. I'm sure they love it but like I said, risk vs. reward. They have risked nothing.""

4. - In the Global Reports list, next to each incursion should state,
how many fleets are in the incursion and how many pilots died and are in system.
So everyone arou8nd the universe can see whats happening statistically right from the Global Report.
There could also show what kinds of ships have been destroyed.

5. - In the combat log of the pilot, we should have kills noted there of special ships of Sansha's
it would give more incentives for a pilot to go and kill something and be part of the incursion.

The Mercurial Order
Posted - 2011.01.29 16:36:00 - [122]

I completely agree with the idea of giving us a little more time before getting locked and preventing people who didn't help out with the Incursion to get rewards.

Maya Kaundur
Posted - 2011.01.29 16:36:00 - [123]

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Arcuate
1st. Rewards
2nd. Don't make it easier. Let this be long term content that people will need to develop strategies for during the long haul. Don't listen to the constant nagging on the forums, please!

I agree on the difficulty. I've been running these sites on my player character (I was in the final boss fight yesterday too Cool) and I don't think they're too difficult. I think the majority of the balancing work is balancing sites within their tier. Ideally, you'll all vanguard dungeons will have equal value in the players eyes, instead of having popular types of sites, and sites players just avoid. I'm still waiting for the stats, but I'd take a guess and say the mining ones are probably the least run.

I think you might be wrong

Mining sites are the easiest :-p

Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.01.29 16:40:00 - [124]

Edited by: Blurtmaster on 29/01/2011 16:44:33
Edited by: Blurtmaster on 29/01/2011 16:43:08
There seems to be a huge misunderstanding about the term Invasion and Incursion.
The whole purpose is to actually wipe out a major percentage of capsuleers and carebears to make way for the Sansha forces.

And that is exactly what is happening when you go out in an ill prepared ship with horrible understanding of how logistics combat works.

It is highy entertaining how people think they can fight of expert fighter pilot fleets in their local repped bs, cruisers or frigates. With no real Flight Commander.

If I could, I would join the Sansha side and wipe out entire regions of capsuleers.

I quote a capsuleer:
To harvest tears as space ship fuel.

War - Looting, pillaging, friendly fire, xxxx, xxx, betrayal and other casualties are harsh conditions.

You expect war to be fair?
War never changes.

This is clearly the best event in MMO history.

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.01.29 16:52:00 - [125]

I brought a fleet of our very experienced w-space guys to the lowsec incursion last night. My comments:

1) Lowsec incursions are regenning way too fast. Partly this is because fewer carebears are going to do them, it also appears that kills either by sansha or players drop the % complete. If so, people camping gates are dropping the completion percentage a lot.
2) We first ran the Override Transfer array, which some of our folks had run in highsec before. It was very easy for 3 guardians to keep everyone up. Very little challenge, and the only thing slowing us down was the distance that the hacking containers spawned.
3) We then tried an Overwhelmed Civilian Facility, with the same 3 guardians and 9 other DPS ships (mostly t3/hac/BCs, a couple of BSs). It was more challenging, we did lose one hurricane. I don't understand why fleets *lower* than the maximum don't get max payouts though. We should be rewarded for completing it with less than the maximum number of pilots, not penalized. It was also not clear to us when we would be allowed to put the civilians in the freighter, it seemed like we should be able to do it a lot earlier, once we had recovered some of them.

Difficulty seemed a little low to me, to be honest. I spent a lot of time learning to run class 5 and 6 wormhole sites, and we lost a heck of a lot more ships doing it. I also think the lowsec rewards need to be *much* greater than the highsec ones, and really should be greater than the 0.0 ones. The lowsec ones are really the only ones that are likely to have a lot of PvP, the 0.0 ones will often be deep in someone's territory. I am also worried that nobody will ever complete the lowsec incursions, though that will have to wait a few weeks to be tested.

Posted - 2011.01.29 16:56:00 - [126]

Edited by: Vincardi on 29/01/2011 17:15:25

6. - Re-spawn into another constellation should happen sooner.
or at least a smaller kind of incursion by the regions, but the same strength as the main incursions
that you experience in constellations now.


Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.01.29 17:10:00 - [127]

You can't have more than one pilot logged on at the same time on the same account. If you have two accounts and are running two ships (say, a battleship and a logi) then I see no reason not to get paid twice.

Posted - 2011.01.29 17:17:00 - [128]

Edited by: Vincardi on 29/01/2011 17:37:45
yes, just fixed the post.

(This is for that other poster) "cant find it right now"...
As far as people requesting that the system turn from a high sec system to a 0.4 system
when the incursion is not being won in high-sec, is crazy.

Also, the reason why High sec pilots wont go to low sec to help in the incursions there,
is because they dont want to deal with ganking.
It would be a ganking melting pot.
Its bad enough to deal with the deadly Sansha's, to then have to worry about pirates ganking
in the Sansha incursions as well, they wont stand a chance.

People are not stupid you know...

Also, if you guys cant clear your low sec space from the sansha's incursions,
its not high sec's problem.
We cleared ours... LaughingVery HappyRazz

Mike Azariah
Posted - 2011.01.29 17:37:00 - [129]

A minor cosmetic tweak.

I would like to see an announcement when the finale of an incursion happens, A 'Curse you capsuleers' or a 'Huzzah and the locals cheer' something to show we actually finished it aside from the incursion mechanics vanishing.

Difficulty level has been 'Hard but fair' (Thank you Judge Dread)

There is some issue with having ten in a squad, but I am not 100% clear on what it is, just that we played a lot of 'move the members' to make sure we did not have that going into the manifesto site.

I agree with some of the others that there needs to be some mechanic to keep the ninja swarm at bay in the big finish. Obray was getting crowded right at the end as miniature after miniature swarmed about hoping for a sweet steal. Maybe the last ship goes off the way some mission sites used to? With an explosive wave? I would LOVE to see all the thieves swept from the field in their little t1 frigates and shuttles. Anybody seriously IN the battle would laugh off such an explosion.


CSM6, on the horizon. All stations make politic ready

Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.01.29 17:55:00 - [130]

Only complaint I have atm is the lack of highsec incursions currently available. I imagine the lowsec/nullsec ones would have the same problem if they were being run as much, but as it stands the incursions are being cleared too quickly and not respawning after DT, which is a pain for those who'd like to do them full time (and the lowsec ones being camped/WAY too easy to camp is another issue)

Posted - 2011.01.29 18:01:00 - [131]

Here is an idea.

The longer the Incursion is not cleared,
The more systems the Sansha's would take over.

Basically spreading like wild fire.
Would make it more fun.

And for those constellations no clearing theirs,
their situation would get worse and worse.

basically sansha would be infesting the current systems more,
and also taking other systems and spreading out more and more.

Would give pilots incentive to move their arses and get to it,
before the situation and incursions get worse.

just an idea.

Marconus Orion
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.01.29 18:05:00 - [132]

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Anyway, I'll think more about this on Monday. Now I'm going to go play some EVE and wait for the next Incursion to appear.

And how does that work??

Posted - 2011.01.29 18:09:00 - [133]

Originally by: Vincardi
Here is an idea.

The longer the Incursion is not cleared,
The more systems the Sansha's would take over.

Basically spreading like wild fire.
Would make it more fun.

I can see where you're going, but just to point something out.
a hostile entrance into or invasion of a place or territory, esp. a sudden one; raid: The bandits made brief incursions on the village.

Sansha aren't looking to gain territory here, they just want to do a quick smash and grab to kidn...uplift more oppressed citizens from the local planets and bring them back to their Promised Land.
It might be cool if a successful(for the Sansha) Incursion reduced PI output for a while afterwards, as the colonies struggle to replace uplifted workers.

Posted - 2011.01.29 18:14:00 - [134]

Ya, I know.
But would be cool though... Very Happy

the longer the incursions is active, the more shyte hits the fan. Twisted Evil

It was a good thought though. Razz

Emmy Mnemonic
Lone Gunmen
Posted - 2011.01.29 18:14:00 - [135]

I have finished a bunch of Incursion sites in high-sec, mostly Vanguards but some higher as well. Flying Logi or RR BS.

First of all, i just LOVE the atmosphere surrounding the Incursions! Just hopping into ad-hoc fleets with total "strangers" and having to try to be disciplined in managing your RR and DPS is just awsome. I have made more online-capsuleer-friends in 2 days playing Incursions than in 2 years playing EVE.

This has simply been the most rewarding EVE time since I tried out nullsec.

And the toughness to complete the Incursions is just good - if it had been easy, what's the challange!?

Now for the "less good feedback".

CONCORD LP store. C'mon CCP! I live in high-sec! What use is named captial ship gunz BPCs to me?! It's only ISK dammit! ANd the implants - well, we've seen most of them before, but the +6% are nice, although if 1% more is "rewarding" could be debated...

I suggest CCP thinks out some new awesome CONCORD rewards that are useful also to high-sec peeps and corps! We fight the Incursions, we loose our ships to Sanshas, and our remaining T2-modules to ninja looters (may they burn eternally in a star nearby) and we leave a trail of burned ISK behind our ships as "payment" for playing the Incursions. And when you have enough LPs and go to the CONCORDS stores, all you get are ISK in the form of highsec-useless named captial armor reppers BPs etc...I want cool stuff to equip my ships with! Or CONCORD ships! Dammit, even a coffe-cup with "CONCORD" engraved would be cooler than named capital stuff...

Furthermore: The battle-sites of the Sanhsas is just SWARMING with ninja looters! They have made FORTUNES on us Incursion-noobs. Might I suggest a small tweak in the Sanshas battle-logics so they instantly target and focus fire on ninjalooters who have looted someone elses wreck/can and are flagged, and pop them bastards AND their pods before they can leave! I'd laugh my implants out!

Alternativeley, allow us to use HICs bubbles in highsec only in the Incursion sites, that'll put an effective stop to ninja looters!

Seriously CCP, ninja looters in Incursions is not fun at all. I can take the loss, but they get the stuff much to easily!

On the whole CCP: really really good work! I'm staying with EVE!

Posted - 2011.01.29 18:40:00 - [136]

Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/01/2011 18:41:04
In other news to the above poster, you can exchange CONCORD LP to any other corp LP in their LP store using the shiny button in the right corner.

Alternativeley, allow us to use HICs bubbles in highsec only in the Incursion sites, that'll put an effective stop to ninja looters

I would equip a doomsday tank and just sit in sites to have people get killed.

Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.01.29 19:14:00 - [137]

What is Incursion?

Wyke Mossari
Posted - 2011.01.29 19:25:00 - [138]

Originally by: Vincardi

3. - Mothership HQ Flagship kill -
Not fair that a fleet working hard on killing the Flagship, gets jipped and robbed from the drops
from some ninja pilot in a shuttle or frigate runs over and steals it, someone who did not work for it and who just came into the incursion goes over and snatches the prize.

This a very good point as was predicted. Eve already has a perfect good mechanic for handling the rewarding of a Sansha Carrier BPC that also makes much better sense storyline wise: Reverse Engineering the Sansha wreck/loot. Looting/Salvaging these wrecks provides loot that can be Reverse Engineered into a Carrier BPC.

Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2011.01.29 19:33:00 - [139]

Edited by: n00n3r on 29/01/2011 19:51:25
Originally by: Dav Varan
Resist all calls to dumb down this content.

In fact make it more dangerous.

1 major flaw makes this content differ from PvP in a big way.

Incursion sites are predictable.

leaving aside dysncs and f ups once you have a fleet that can conquer plex type A that same fleet will always conquer plex type A.

Use you random number generator to make spawns appear at random rather than on set triggres and make those spawns variable.

Only then will you truely be starting to approach PvP levels of challenge in your PvE content.

I agree completely with this. Make these sites more unpredictable. Make fleets react to different situations. Throw curve-balls at our fleets. You say you have all these great tools to create really compelling NPCs. Use Them

Also, farm ability of these sites is going to become a problem for CCP if you don't watch that close. I don't want to get into too many details, but I don't think you anticipated 4 man fleets to pull in 600m ISK/hour

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2011.01.29 19:44:00 - [140]

Someone asserted that t1 frigates are essentially useless, and while I'd tend to agree in general I have found that the super speedy vigil is an excellent tool in an incursion fleet. Low slots are all speed mods, mids are AB, Target painter and sensor booster to boost lock range. Highs don't matter, although I guess it doesn't hurt to fill them for the purpose of aggro pulling.
And that's what this can do for a larger fleet, it can zip around target painting targets and moving out of range when it pulls aggro.

I'd argue that t1 frigates are more useful than t1 cruisers which will lack the mobility to keep out of the sansha's range or the tank to survive under fire.

So I would absolutely like to see scoring based upon fleet numbers re-worked into a scoring system closer to that used in the alliance tournament. When a fleet is assembled the composition score can be calculated and displayed to the members in the fleet window. So, then it would be viable to take on vanguard sites and harder in a giant swarm of frigates, or indeed rookie ships, and have the rewards be consistent with the players ships.

One thing I realised I haven't tried - Are MWD's usable in the sites? There was a comment some time ago about the ultimate goal of making MWD's usable for all PVE content, and since this is new PVE content I sincerely hope that CCP developers have allowed pilots to use MWD's. Maybe someone can confirm or deny whether MWD's are usable before I get to the game and try it myself.

Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.01.29 19:46:00 - [141]

Can somebody please explain to me what exactly Incursion is? I don't get it.

I thought it was just the name of the "patch".

Arcana Mortis
Posted - 2011.01.29 19:54:00 - [142]

one question : i thought there was meant to be one incursion per region, but i only saw 6 incursion (and that was before two of them died)

Posted - 2011.01.29 20:06:00 - [143]

Whats the point doing them if they (sansha) eventually leave ?

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.01.29 20:09:00 - [144]

we should be allowed to rifter swarm with like 100 people on a vanguard site and all be rewarded.

incursions should be setup with an isk value on the ship not players, use alliance tournament values or insurance max payout ( manually add t2 ships.)

Posted - 2011.01.29 20:26:00 - [145]

29th Jan, at 19:56 or so eve time I was trying to launch a batch of Toxic metal to the surface of planet xxx, where I have processors and that batch was around 13000 units. I tried to launch it to the surface along with around 13k of Chiral Structures.

The batch was too big for the launchpad to receive .. and I received a error message that there was not enough space. BUT THE TOXIC METAL DISAPEARED .. ALL OF IT

Please Correct this as soon as possible, this has also happened to my other character, Anorra K'lzik yesterday .. but under other circumstances.


Commodities SHOULD not dissapear like that.

Fix this please, and fix it fast.
I dread to do PI if my stuff just keeps disapearing ( I wonder what happens if P4 stuff disapears .. wont people cry out then ? )

I have been doing PI since it came out, but I have never encountered that my commodities just DISAPPEAR, I have gotten error messages before and the commodities simply just don't move, if there is not a space on the other end.

This has NEVER happened to me Before this Expansion, but now this has happened not once .. but 3 times, and not only when there is not room enough to receive the items.

Fix this stupidly annoying bug asap

- J'oorus

Posted - 2011.01.29 20:45:00 - [146]

When entering an incursion there should be distance, so that you can get into formation before attacking.

Maybe the sansha have EMP weapons? And just like the allaince tourny you could have all locks, NPC and Player be broken for 10 seconds after 1st warp in?

That's my only issue with incursions right now. : ) the warp in shouldn't be so dangerous in NON-HQ sites.

HQ sites? yeah they should defend their home like asap. :P

Vengal Seyhan
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2011.01.29 21:07:00 - [147]

Originally by: Mike Azariah

I agree with some of the others that there needs to be some mechanic to keep the ninja swarm at bay in the big finish. Obray was getting crowded right at the end as miniature after miniature swarmed about hoping for a sweet steal. Maybe the last ship goes off the way some mission sites used to? With an explosive wave? I would LOVE to see all the thieves swept from the field in their little t1 frigates and shuttles. Anybody seriously IN the battle would laugh off such an explosion.

Awesome idea!
Except one problem : 2K damage would clear anything un-tanked from the field and while doing nothing to any seriously fit ship… problem is it would also clear pods. If you can get around that problem, I’m all for it.

One other thing to re-iterate to the masses:
People not in fleet do not get a share of ISK rewards or LP payout. They have no effect on you in a highsec incursion, except to nick salvage. This is one of the game design reasons Sansha wrecks drop zero loot (that and to constrain income).

If the BPC drops from a wreck in a lowsec incursion it’ll be a bit chaotic, so if CCP wants to avoid backstabbing etc (big if), they can make the reward spawn from station and deliver to fleet leader.
CCP – you could also make the BPC inventable from captured technology… ie you get loots like from sleepers and use it to reverse engineer a BPC.

Vengal Seyhan
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2011.01.29 21:22:00 - [148]

Edited by: Vengal Seyhan on 29/01/2011 21:32:44
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

Great minds think alike!

Hey CCP Soundwave, I would really really really like to see a blog containing some stats on player ship losses during the first few incursions. I've heard up to 10K ships became metal scraps in Algintal on the first day alone, but the in-Eve constellation Sov report never backed that up.... which may be poor updating on that report in Eve.

It would be awesome if you can pull constellation logs for each incursion and tell us which types fared most poorly (how bad the drake actually is/isn't, how many Guardians valiantly met their end, etc), and also trends on Incursions - how quickly the player-base is learning to reduce losses, etc.

I think most of us would cheer the loss of so many Drakes... and I want to know how many faction battleships (such as mine), and Marauders, blew up as a 'learning experience'. :D

Posted - 2011.01.29 21:40:00 - [149]

People who don't like looters can go do lowsec or 0.0 incursions or HTFU Razz

It's the price you pay for "not dealing with ganking" - no one can do anythng to you and you can't do anything to anyone else (both without consequences). Yes, it'd be good to get a warning that you about to rep a criminal when he does something wrong in the process of being repped, but that was "broken" for ages and was pointed out to devs on sisi, so deal with it. EVE was never intended as fair place (it's not like noone can get in some 4/10 in noobship and steal faction loot - why this should be different?).

Also, decay timer and rewards really need tweaking - too much people doing it in highsec, too little in lowsec... with lowsec being most "dangerous" of all regions.

Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.01.29 22:09:00 - [150]

i just finished 2 of my characters portrait. i spend many hours to find what i want and totally satisfied with the results. it still got some tiny problems but the future is bright.

art direction:
i would expect a lot more experimental design on costumes and hairs because its 23341 A.D.
forums are looks like dating sites at 2015. fashion so close to 2011.

with the huge amount of freedom for the camera angels caused some extreme forum alt portraits. most of the people looks cool in space.

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