open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Wanted: Incursion Feedback
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (18)

Author Topic

Isan'na
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2011.01.29 06:07:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Isan''na on 29/01/2011 06:07:30
Originally by: Thalis Malu
This way at least the first person in isn't insta-melted.


I'd support this.^ Just a slight increase in initial lock-time.

On another note, I'm concerned that the regen rate nerf was premature. The initial impossible nature of the incursion bar was due more to sites not despawning than the rate itself. Competent fleets (!) have no issue finishing the incursions atm, to the point that the Obray constellation went from about 50% to the mothership blowing up in less than 3 hours. Granted, this was with the entirety of capsuleers interested in high-sec incursions at the constellation, but it still seems excessive since the time-out is supposed to be 7 days. At this rate, a post-DT spawn of an Incursion could be cleared -or almost there- by the time a US TZ player wakes up and has time to fly to the site, let alone comes home from work/school/other obligations.

As for the sites themselves, the difficulty on sites is trivial for experienced and competent fleets. I believe the current rewards system vis-a-vis fleet size is FINE. Losses due to sloppy preparation is not anyone's fault but the pilot's, and blobbing should not be the method of choice.

tl;dr - Regen rate is too low now, and the 'fix' was rushed. Please tweak it again.

Edit: dammit didn't realize. Oh well. Snipe.

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2011.01.29 06:32:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Julianus Soter on 29/01/2011 06:33:22
The Lirsautton Parichayas spawns during the boss fight do often alpha-strike a target to death before the fleet can respond. Casualties are one-three ships on average for those sites, in our fleets, anyway.

There is a significant conundrum, though.

There's basically no real reason to do anything but the vanguard sites in the constellation. it's more than enough to flip the constellation in a day or so, with concentrated effort in highsec. The assaults simply take too long for too little gain, too little difference in reward. Not to mention they're often more complex/dangerous, by an order of magnitude at times. I've not even tried an HQ site yet. Even though people keep warping into them like damn lemmings. Weeeeeeeee -gboooooshhhhhhrrrrrr-

So, you end up with a paradox: 75% of the content for incursion is essentially un-used. Now, if the other classes of systems could be reorganized/tweaked to make them a valuable/meaningful thing to do in comparison to vanguards, that might be useful.

Regarding vanguards, they've essentially become a trivial thing to do for SYNE/FCORD/Moira fleets. I can do the target calling in my sleep, and although there are some close shaves at times, a few basic combat protocols, fitting guidelines, and shiptypes, the entire thing becomes formulaic. Maybe we're just that awesome? but I think that's unlikely as these incursions are being cleared in record time now.

Casualties do occur, but mostly by noo- ahem - novice pilots/people that are incompetent fleet commanders. I suppose it's just that when you've 'mastered' the mechanics, there's no element of surprise. . . . it's almost as though the Sansha are underestimating us. Hmmmmm.

Would it be possible that when the incursion site detects you're doing really well for a given number of fleet members/people on grid, that difficulty is ratcheted up, but so is the reward? That would kind of be my wet dream of PVE content.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.29 08:24:00 - [93]
 

feedback oh where to begin

Sansha incursions respawning when final boss is defeated ( should be dynamic not at dt not at the end of a week)

Low sec - null sec ( well the joke is there for all to see 4 days in) lack of belt rats counting towards rolling back the incursion

Not much else today ccp devs seem not to be anywhere near what the player base is looking for and instead just do what they want in the game - the eve is dying drumbeats are striking loud

Aynen
Posted - 2011.01.29 10:24:00 - [94]
 

So far I can really only have one issue with the incursions, mainly because and that I have not been able to take part in them. My corporation is planning to take part in the future but for the time being, the alt I wanted to use for the incursions is not being accepted into any fleets because she can't fly ships that the majority of fleet commanders deem usefull. This makes me wonder if it is intentional that tech 1 frigates have no perpose in Incursions, and if so, doesn't that mean that you intentionally bar out a rather large part of the community, namely the newer players and low skill point alts?
Also, having heared many horror stories of entire fleets of well fitted Drakes being destroyed by the Nation NPCs, I wonder how many people actually have the monetary strength to keep playing incursions. Is this too intentional?

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2011.01.29 10:45:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Julianus Soter on 29/01/2011 10:56:18
Edited by: Julianus Soter on 29/01/2011 10:46:04
Originally by: Aynen
...makes me wonder if it is intentional that tech 1 frigates have no perpose in Incursions...


Note the payout of a Vanguard site, at around 10 million per person, in highsec. Consider that this then can pay for a hundred t1 frigates. A hundred.

T1 frigates aren't designed to participate in level 3/4/5 missions, lowsec exploration, etc, nor are they designed to participate in this content.

Don't like it? Use your main. Or plug in Gallente Cruiser 1. Time to upgrade, dudes.

edit: I recall a certain experience where I warned a person that was in my fleet, flying a kestrel, that they would be kicked if they didn't leave or brought a more productive ship. The person was kicked, then proceeded to rage for 2 hours.

Ironically, for the two hours they were raging, they could've trained a basic level of cruiser skills, acquired one, fit it, and then participated with some decent level of credibility/contribution to the fleet as an anti-frigate platform.

Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2011.01.29 11:55:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: nihlanth

Instead of rewarding the isk and lp to the largest fleet, they should reward it to any and all fleets who are uncloaked within 150km of the mission objective inside the system and have been there for at least 5 minutes and have contributed in some way to fighting or helping the fighters (like RR or commandship bonuses).




No way. DO NOT DO THIS. At present the mechanic of having the single, most effective fleet getting the reward stops people from coming in to grief and steal bounties / rewards, (as happens in missions). The last thing I want to see is a horde of alts with frigate w. a target painter or one tiny little gun pew pewing at the rats to get counted as 'contributing to the fight', when they really don't.... because that's exactly the exploit that would happen.

Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2011.01.29 12:08:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Julianus Soter

There's basically no real reason to do anything but the vanguard sites in the constellation. it's more than enough to flip the constellation in a day or so, with concentrated effort in highsec. The assaults simply take too long for too little gain, too little difference in reward. Not to mention they're often more complex/dangerous, by an order of magnitude at times. I've not even tried an HQ site yet. Even though people keep warping into them like damn lemmings. Weeeeeeeee -gboooooshhhhhhrrrrrr-



I concur, having flown with Julianus I can attest he knows his **** about triggers, primary rats and so forth. It's mechanical unless the logistics have a brain fart, and if they do everyone dies.
Also, size of available fleet is timezone dependent, so for example people in Australia (GMT+10) struggle to form fleets big enough to do an Assault - an hour of waiting to get 20 decent pilots isn't fun. So, Vanguards get done to death instead.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.29 12:17:00 - [98]
 

how about ccp give us some information on respawn rates. Lest speculation will run roit or boredom will set in, or u could go back to youre ivory towers and work o nthe next fail

Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2011.01.29 12:20:00 - [99]
 

My ideas so far:

- Make the regen rate variable. ie Regen = X*(Number of players online)/(Daily Average). That way the incursions don't all fall over during peak time and it's more about level of effort in every timezone.

- Lasting effects on constellation, also previously suggested. Particularly in rat spawns (leftovers from the incursion) and in minerals availability in the belts. If CCP wants to hut bot-miners as the Russians are much-maligned to be, then this is an added way to do it.

- More random content (rats at belts, stations, moons, customs facilities and so forth), and better scaling of difficulty for new players, and solo ones. The sites that exist are pretty good, but the new player stuff is lacking. New players get booted from fleet because they can't fit ships that anyone wants to fly with.

- Haven't tried a lowsec incursion. Does the cyno jammer actually ever turn off?

- As others have said, increase the initial lock time on the Sanhsa on initial warp-in, or stage their arrival, or make them start further away or something. Right now it's a bit of a warp-to-zero affair, so smart fleets send in a Damnation or other huge buffer tank to soak the huge amount of Alpha while the logistics get lock. Problem and countermeasure already exist, yes; but it's derivative and formulaic. Staging warp in would potentially allow you to set peak inbound DPS to some time aside from initial warp in, and give the logis more to sweat about?
(It would also allow stupid people who warp in solo -or accidentally hit the gate activation while aligned - a bit more chance of getting their ship out)

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.29 12:25:00 - [100]
 

one low sec one - been there all week the sansha strenght has not moved same goes for 00. Carebears have hit the 3 high sec ones cleared em they havent been replaced anywhere.

Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2011.01.29 12:33:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Vengal Seyhan on 29/01/2011 12:45:30

Feedback regarding Assault : Nation Commander
(The one where you pop the named Sansha rat to complete)

I participated in this twice yesterday with Julianus Soter's fleet. We've discovered it's possible to blitz the site somewhat:

Our fleet
4 x Logistics (2 Guardian, 2 Oneiros)
3 x Scorps
5 x Misc T2 cruiser (2 Ishtars, 3 Muninn + 1 Huginn)
1 x Command Ship (Damnation).
Remainder sniper and brawler BS

Tactics:
- Damnation is agro bait on warp in (wallows like a pig, so needs time to warp, even if aligned), Logistics close behind, followed by rest of fleet.
- Logistics prioritise each other and EWAR ships for reps and add to watchlist. Others broadcast for reps as needed.
- HACs and fast ships act in semi-detached mode, pursuing high-value frigates and EWAR / Logistics / Gang-boosting cruisers and then targets of opportunity.
- Battleships target other Battleships, to give highest effective DPS for sig radius.
You have to plough through the entire first wave, which takes a long time and a lot of chasing down of the snipers. Fair enough.
When the second wave spawns, the Scorps lock up and jam every remote-shield-rep ship (Mara Paleo + BS equivalent) in the spawn. Then, every other member of fleet prioritises the Boss Sansha. Lack of remote reps mean he vapes in no time.
Second Sansha wave then warps out in a panic, basically intact. Mission complete

Works very well.. Iím just not sure if itís intended to be able to be blitzed like this. The site takes a long time to do if you have to smash most of the second wave to get the logistics off the field, so it may be a way to increase efficiency(?)

Asaface
Mafia Redux
Posted - 2011.01.29 12:42:00 - [102]
 

* How is the balance of the sites within their own tier? For example, is there any Vanguard site that is considerably more difficult/time consuming than the others?

Balance is ok, except the dumb mining one, we avoid these, they are pointless, we can do other sites considerably quicker

* What set-ups are you successfully using for what sites?

Baddons, Pests, Phoons, Guardians, Lokis, Oneiros, Stilleto (hacker)

* Are there any objectives/functions within sites that are working poorly?

Mining site sucks

* What general issues would you like to point out at this point? Anyway, weíll keep looking at the feature (and the thread). Please note that changes donít happen over night, but they will continue coming!

The nerf (i read 50%) was too much and incursions are disappearing too quickley. For those of us that are going to do this regularly means alot of logistics (moving goods) or having setups all over empire (we will eventually)

Del orian
Betruger Trust Holding AG
Posted - 2011.01.29 12:44:00 - [103]
 

Add reward for fleetmembers in pods, we lost some people and they didnt get anything from the mothership site. Confused

Jezebel Cadelanne
Posted - 2011.01.29 12:49:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Del orian
Add reward for fleetmembers in pods, we lost some people and they didnt get anything from the mothership site. Confused



This is a good point.
There needs to be a way to give credit to people who have lost ships, especially since a refit can take >20 minutes to get back into site - more if market is dry like lowsec, or it's been bought out- and if the fleet is stil viable we don't stop doing the site.

Darranibal Colpia
Caldari
Acute Damage
Posted - 2011.01.29 13:09:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Darranibal Colpia on 29/01/2011 13:14:59
As a member of the FCORD Council and part of the group of Wedgetail, Grideris, Soter, Guthris and myself that figured out the format beating the incursions of Algilie, Obray and Azaz, I see that most of the people who are complaining about LP and ISK were not in our fleet and were losing ships left right and centre. Those who are most vocal in complaining are not in any of the top nine lists for completing incursions, meaning either a) they did not listen to advice or b) they DID NOT LISTEN TO ADVICE.

A lot of people seem to think that they are right and FCORD and SYNE and CCP are wrong, when clearly we are completing sites with minimal losses, and it is indeed CCP's valid point that losses on the part of capsuleers is what enables the Sansha to regain control as in real warfare. Julianus, as strict as he is being, is protecting his fleet and I have done likewise. People who are insisting their Drakes are tough and want in on an armor logis fleet that is winning are fools and/or warp-out leeches. If you absolutely must bring a Caldari ship due to skills, bring a t2 and armor buffer/resist it so logis can rep. Or fully committed speed/sig tank or godlike-ewar if you have the courage to be constantly primaried. But do not FOR THE LOVE OF StevieSG bring a AAA+ shield buffer regen tank, because the EM hole in it is so big and the signature so huge that we will refuse you fleet invites purely on the grounds of intense stupidity, even if I'm running a shield fleet with warfare links. I've only lost one ship so far and that was because e-war draws nasty angry primary, as it should, it was a fair loss CCP, no complaints. If you do something that draws primary from heavier hitting fleetmates, you are doing something right.

Quote:
There needs to be a way to give credit to people who have lost ships, especially since a refit can take >20 minutes to get back into site - more if market is dry like lowsec, or it's been bought out- and if the fleet is stil viable we don't stop doing the site.


^ (edit) I agree, people who participated in a successful fleet but took a loss should have some token recognition for their contribution, they are usually still fleeted but get nothing.

As an end note, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU CCP for showing people that Drake blobs are easily rendered useless, and that a balanced organised logi-backed fleet, teamwork, specialist roles, and intelligent module fitting prevents losses and ensures victory. Loving it!

Grideris
Gallente
Fleet Coordination Command
Fleet Coordination Coalition
Posted - 2011.01.29 13:11:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Grideris on 29/01/2011 13:31:52
I reckon that while the decrease in Sansha influence increase was awesome ( we went from 100%, to 39% back to 100% in the space of a day) I reckon that it does now make the whole incursion go too quickly. So keep the rate the same, but increase the amount of influence - so it takes longer to complete, but the rate of change stays the same.

Also, if it's not already, add something in about loss of ships in sites. Make sure there is a cap so someone doesn't try to just suicide rookie ships to greif anyone trying to complete the incursion.

(I've got more, but I'll add that later. YARRRR!!)

laksmi2
Posted - 2011.01.29 13:20:00 - [107]
 

i suggest to make it so that fleets are rated along the alliance tournament lines. so u can go with 20 battleships or try with 200 rifters and still get the reward.

Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2011.01.29 13:27:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: laksmi2
i suggest to make it so that fleets are rated along the alliance tournament lines. so u can go with 20 battleships or try with 200 rifters and still get the reward.


It's an iea... When is the rating done, though? If it's a one-off check there's nothing to stop devious players figuring out when it gets checked (trial and error would work), and then switching out of their Rifters for ships with real pew-pew.

Constant fleet composition checking might be a bit of a load on the server.

You might have to set a 'hard' rather than soft/flexible points maximum for fleet etc, but that then doesn't let new players do sites in a horde of ships to make up for their low SP /experience level.

Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2011.01.29 13:33:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Grideris
I reckon that while the decrease in Sansha influence increase was awesome ( we went from 100%, to 39% back to 100% in the space of a day) I reckon that it does now make the whole incursion go too quickly. So keep the rate the same, but increase the amount of influence - so it takes longer to complete, but the rate of change stays the same.

(I've got more, but I'll add that later. YARRRR!!)


Good idea. Initial regen rate was abysmal because we couldn't hold any progress over the quiet period around DT... I don't ever want to see that again. However, they do need to last a day or three before giving up the Candy. (Also see my variable regen idea above)

Probably, highsec incursions should require more sites to be done, because the available player base is much bigger.

Next challenge is for FCORD is to do a lowsec incursion or two and explore how the addition of piracy and general ****tardery impacts on the viability of incursions.
I'm back home with my gaming laptop on Wed night, so I hope to be able to help out then.

I'll bring a cheap clone. :D

Amseln deBrabant
Posted - 2011.01.29 13:37:00 - [110]
 

"I reckon that while the decrease in Sansha influence increase was awesome ( we went from 100%, to 39% back to 100% in the space of a day) I reckon that it does now make the whole incursion go too quickly. So keep the rate the same, but increase the amount of influence - so it takes longer to complete, but the rate of change stays the same."

i want to support Grideris on this


CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.29 14:28:00 - [111]
 

Thanks for all the great feedback guys.

We're meeting Monday to try and hammer out what tweaks we'll be doing. We found an issue in the HQ sites which we're looking to correct, hopefully as soon as Mondays downtime.

cedeon
Posted - 2011.01.29 14:36:00 - [112]
 

I agree with a lot of these guys, my views are:
  • CCP were too quick to change the incursion regen rate and should have known there would be an initial noob rush of death that would quickly settle, as it has.
    CCP should change this again- increasing the rate.

  • New Incursions in EVE spawn WAY too slowly.
    We completed both highsec incursions last night and after 12 hours and a downtime theres still not another incursion in the whole of empire space!?? That is completely unacceptable IMO.
    *said with his beak open like a hungry baby bird*


Other than that incursions are awesome, win mechanics are awesome and well thought out, difficulty ramp up is awesome.. everything except those two major points is awesome :)



Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2011.01.29 14:49:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: cedeon
I agree with a lot of these guys, my views are:
New Incursions in EVE spawn WAY too slowly.
We completed both highsec incursions last night and after 12 hours and a downtime theres still not another incursion in the whole of empire space!?? That is completely unacceptable IMO.
*said with his beak open like a hungry baby bird* [/*][/list]




Time to go and try one of the Lowsec incursions.

Also: Speaking of lowsecs. Systems with <0.5 true-sec curently give lowsec rewards. There are several cases where constellations contain higsec systems (eg Barmalie), where you get lowsec rewards for zero increased risk.. The cutoff needs to be tweaked.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.01.29 15:02:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Takseen on 29/01/2011 15:02:40
Originally by: cedeon
I agree with a lot of these guys, my views are:
[list]
  • CCP were too quick to change the incursion regen rate and should have known there would be an initial noob rush of death that would quickly settle, as it has.
    CCP should change this again- increasing the rate.





  • The regen rate was way too high at the start though. The Algintal incursion basically went from 40-50% done back to 0% in the lull before downtime. That meant you had to just zerg the Incursion over one day, or start again from scratch.
    Leaving the regen rate as it is, but just requiring more site completions to spawn the Mothership seems like a better solution. So people can spend more time in the same constellation.

    Panhead4411
    Posted - 2011.01.29 15:32:00 - [115]
     

    When it was first talked about the Incursions, i was led to believe from the Dev dialogue that the Incursion would take over a system over time, not start with 100% control.

    I think it should start around 50%, so if it is not acted on quickly it will get worse. Might need to tweek the regen rate. But i think it was add a better dynamic to the incursions.

    I also agree w/ there needing to be atleast SOME reward for fleets that are slightly larger than recommended.

    And if the "winning" fleet is unnaturally larger than required, the next fleet that "fits" within the parameters.

    CCP Soundwave


    C C P Alliance
    Posted - 2011.01.29 15:40:00 - [116]
     

    Originally by: Takseen
    Edited by: Takseen on 29/01/2011 15:02:40
    Originally by: cedeon
    I agree with a lot of these guys, my views are:
    [list]
  • CCP were too quick to change the incursion regen rate and should have known there would be an initial noob rush of death that would quickly settle, as it has.
    CCP should change this again- increasing the rate.





  • The regen rate was way too high at the start though. The Algintal incursion basically went from 40-50% done back to 0% in the lull before downtime. That meant you had to just zerg the Incursion over one day, or start again from scratch.
    Leaving the regen rate as it is, but just requiring more site completions to spawn the Mothership seems like a better solution. So people can spend more time in the same constellation.


    Great minds think alike!

    Gavin Darklighter
    Ministry of War
    Posted - 2011.01.29 15:43:00 - [117]
     

    Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 29/01/2011 15:48:55
    Originally by: Grideris

    I reckon that while the decrease in Sansha influence increase was awesome ( we went from 100%, to 39% back to 100% in the space of a day) I reckon that it does now make the whole incursion go too quickly. So keep the rate the same, but increase the amount of influence - so it takes longer to complete, but the rate of change stays the same.


    I agree with this. I would leave the nullsec/lowsec incursions alone and double the amount of influence in high-sec. Alternately you could spawn more incursions at a time.

    EDIT: looks like soundwave decided to agree with this too as I was typing

    Edwin Rothbard
    Interstellar Arbitrage
    Posted - 2011.01.29 15:48:00 - [118]
     

    Edited by: Edwin Rothbard on 30/01/2011 20:40:20

    I capitulate. I love you big brother.

    Wyke Mossari
    Gallente
    Posted - 2011.01.29 16:00:00 - [119]
     

    Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 29/01/2011 19:56:21
    RR/GCC/Concord/Ad-Hoc fleets, need a better mechanic (GCC should probably halt 3rd party aid, not lead to cascading GCC).

    Make their lock times similar to ours not near instant.

    Anti-Drone aggression is excessive, it disproportionately handicaps pilots of Gallente ships that are reliant on drones.

    Having exactly equal omni-tank resistances and damage across the board is rather silly, even the top PvP fit's have some deficiencies. Make different Sansha tank differently, some armour with Thermal hole, some shield with EM hole, with relevant minor deficiencies that can be learnt (Either that or make those True Sansha T4 80%+ Invulnerability fields a drop :).

    Rewards inadequate compared to risk, share the reward more fairly.

    Ship weighting on fleet sizes. 10 Frigates != 10 BS.

    Belt Sansha should camp more places; planets, moons, stations and gates as incursion escalates.

    Incursion should handicap asteroid re-spawn, as Sansha mine them out for supplies.

    PI/Industry/Science jobs should pause or slow due to workers evacuating or bunkering for fear of abduction.

    Null/low sec clearly need some additional motivation, incursions should reduce development indexes.

    Agents should be "busy at the moment"/unavailable.

    The Purloined Sansha code breaker seems to serve no purpose, it cannot be used on Sansha LCOs in incursion sites, oversight?

    These Sansha are supposedly fitted like ships, then tell me what PvP frigate fit can run MWD >3k+ mps, Webber, Scram, ECM, ECCM, point in under 1 sec at 100Km, tank with 80-90% resistance, lock, track and kill light drones in seconds, dish DPS in the hundreds of points. I would really like to know the answer to that question.

    CCP Soundwave


    C C P Alliance
    Posted - 2011.01.29 16:14:00 - [120]
     

    Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
    Originally by: CCP Soundwave


    Great minds think alike!


    Also, since the HQ sites are bugged were they ever impacting the influence for that incursion? My gut feeling is that they were not. Adding yet another reason that the influence should not have been changed until AFTER the bugged HQ sites were fixed.


    Think the low-sec and zero-sec rates need a look at purely because the usage scenarios are so wildly different across those security bands. Anyway, I'll think more about this on Monday. Now I'm going to go play some EVE and wait for the next Incursion to appear.


    Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (18)

    This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


     


    The new forums are live

    Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

    These forums are archived and read-only