open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Wanted: Incursion Feedback
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (18)

Author Topic

CCP StevieSG

Posted - 2011.01.28 11:00:00 - [1]
 

Incursions are now live, and CCP Soundwave would your feedback on how they have been proceeding. Read his newest blog for details on the latest updates to Incursions, and then share your feedback here and answer these questions:


How is the balance of the sites within their own tier? For example, is there any Vanguard site that is considerably more difficult/time consuming than the others?

What set-ups are you successfully using for what sites?

Are there any objectives/functions within sites that are working poorly?

What general issues would you like to point out at this point? Anyway, we’ll keep looking at the feature (and the thread). Please note that changes don’t happen over night, but they will continue coming!


If there’s any other feedback you’d like to share from us, we’d love to here it!


StevieSG
EVE Community Team
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact Us

CCP TomB

Posted - 2011.01.28 11:56:00 - [2]
 

FIIIIIRST

solo 49er
Posted - 2011.01.28 12:02:00 - [3]
 

You don't count! LOL Seriously.. Congrats and major Kudo's to the Syne/FCORD folks that successfully cleared a region yesterday. Hope to see them jump in here soon, and share their fleet compositions and fits soon.

The Snowman
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.28 12:31:00 - [4]
 

REWARDS!

There shouldnt be ZERO reward if your fleet is too big ffs. there should be .... something! a packet of peanuts.. a lolipop.. something!

I know its asking a lot but some players come in small ships some come in big ships, can you not put something in so that 5 frigates = 1 BS ? maybe we could then use different tactics for completing sites.. swarming with small ships instead of Just battleships + logi.

anyway, thats my only thoughts.

Encad Briht
LifeLine Solutions
Posted - 2011.01.28 12:46:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: CCP TomB
FIIIIIRST


Weee, your alive o.0

That i can live to see that moment Shocked

Arcana Mortis
Posted - 2011.01.28 12:48:00 - [6]
 

I ran a vanguard mining colony site with an armor rr bs gang last night.

It was extremely cool, like pvp but with actual rewards!Shocked

Truly an awesome job.

One question though - would it have been too much trouble to make just one or two sites that can be solo'd? The whole point of EVE is that every player can make a difference after all ^^.

And then a few pieces of advice for those who come after me: THIS IS NOT PVE AS YOU KNOW IT.

Your cunning 10/10 setup with a main tank and logi and dps will die in a fire when the sansha attack your logi.

Don't go into a site with an abbadon or other tier 3 bs unless you trust your logi completely - the sansha sb's primary the largest target on the field.

If you see anything starting with 'niarjia' PRIMARY IMMEDIATELY. They are jamboats and just love jamming your logistics.

Oh
yes.
One last thing.

Until the incursion is below 60% don't even bother with anything above assault. no matter how awesome you are, you will die in a fire.Exclamation

Takeshi Ryuu
Black Octopus
Blind Octopus
Posted - 2011.01.28 13:06:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: The Snowman
REWARDS!

There shouldnt be ZERO reward if your fleet is too big ffs. there should be .... something! a packet of peanuts.. a lolipop.. something!

I know its asking a lot but some players come in small ships some come in big ships, can you not put something in so that 5 frigates = 1 BS ? maybe we could then use different tactics for completing sites.. swarming with small ships instead of Just battleships + logi.

anyway, thats my only thoughts.


May be something along the lines of alliance tournament fleet points?

The code to count ships in the fleet is already in place, so counting the "point value of ships in fleet" instead of "number of ships in fleet" is obviously easy, with the only question remaining is the point value of each ship class/type. Ship costs from the last alliance tournament could serve as a staring point.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.28 13:06:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: The Snowman
REWARDS!

There shouldnt be ZERO reward if your fleet is too big ffs. there should be .... something! a packet of peanuts.. a lolipop.. something!

I know its asking a lot but some players come in small ships some come in big ships, can you not put something in so that 5 frigates = 1 BS ? maybe we could then use different tactics for completing sites.. swarming with small ships instead of Just battleships + logi.

anyway, thats my only thoughts.


Yeah I agree. I think our scaling outside the "sweet zones" should be better. This is noted and we'll look into it.

0oO0oOoOo0o
Posted - 2011.01.28 13:09:00 - [9]
 

- The reward. Please make it awesome, at the moment it is lolsome (for anyone who doesn't get the final reward for the final boss in the final plex).

- Please make more plexes in the starter systems, or make them respawn faster, or make SOME of the other plexes (in the 2nd. easiest system) a bit easier so that they can be done solo by specialised carebears with expensive stuff (not soloable by everyone and his dog).

The Snowman
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.28 13:19:00 - [10]
 

Hi, Me again (sori)

I also think that your explanation about the rewards is deceiving! Confusing to say the least;

it says 'ISK(amount)' + 'LP(amount)' x Ratio

Which, reads to me that if the ratio is 'zero' then you get the minimum reward multiplied by 'zero'.. it doesnt explain that you will get 'absolutely zero'

so maybe that could have a better description :D

Arcuate
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.01.28 13:35:00 - [11]
 

1st. Rewards
2nd. Don't make it easier. Let this be long term content that people will need to develop strategies for during the long haul. Don't listen to the constant nagging on the forums, please!

Kata Amentis
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.01.28 13:47:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: The Snowman
Hi, Me again (sori)

I also think that your explanation about the rewards is deceiving! Confusing to say the least;

it says 'ISK(amount)' + 'LP(amount)' x Ratio

Which, reads to me that if the ratio is 'zero' then you get the minimum reward multiplied by 'zero'.. it doesnt explain that you will get 'absolutely zero'

so maybe that could have a better description :D


Anything multiplied by zero is zero. This is known as the zero property of multiplication.

The Snowman
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.28 13:54:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Kata Amentis
Anything multiplied by zero is zero. This is known as the zero property of multiplication.


Is it? if I have a pound and I multiply it by nothing, I still have my pound. where did it go?

IvanAsen
Posted - 2011.01.28 13:57:00 - [14]
 

WOW! This is all I can say...
I wish I had read Arcana's post yesterday, before I leave a marauder, blocade runner and a covop on the field.
EVE is not my second job, but I love it more than my main one Smile
99% of the time I am alone, so... I would love to see some sort of a rating of the sites before I get scrammed/webbed and finaly f...ed (I didn't mean any disrespect here Very Happy)
Can't wait to see what you will come up with!
Fly safe everyone and kick some Sansha's a... for me!
IA

Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari
eNinjas Incorporated
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:02:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: The Snowman
Originally by: Kata Amentis
Anything multiplied by zero is zero. This is known as the zero property of multiplication.


Is it? if I have a pound and I multiply it by nothing, I still have my pound. where did it go?

No that's what happens if you add zero. Multiply by zero and you get zero. Try it on a calculator. 1x0= 0. 2x0= 0 3x0= 0 ...

Dav Varan
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:29:00 - [16]
 

Resist all calls to dumb down this content.

In fact make it more dangerous.

1 major flaw makes this content differ from PvP in a big way.

Incursion sites are predictable.

leaving aside dysncs and f ups once you have a fleet that can conquer plex type A that same fleet will always conquer plex type A.

Use you random number generator to make spawns appear at random rather than on set triggres and make those spawns variable.

Only then will you truely be starting to approach PvP levels of challenge in your PvE content.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:33:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Arcuate
1st. Rewards
2nd. Don't make it easier. Let this be long term content that people will need to develop strategies for during the long haul. Don't listen to the constant nagging on the forums, please!


I agree on the difficulty. I've been running these sites on my player character (I was in the final boss fight yesterday too Cool) and I don't think they're too difficult. I think the majority of the balancing work is balancing sites within their tier. Ideally, you'll all vanguard dungeons will have equal value in the players eyes, instead of having popular types of sites, and sites players just avoid. I'm still waiting for the stats, but I'd take a guess and say the mining ones are probably the least run.

The Snowman
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:37:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand
Originally by: The Snowman
Originally by: Kata Amentis
Anything multiplied by zero is zero. This is known as the zero property of multiplication.


Is it? if I have a pound and I multiply it by nothing, I still have my pound. where did it go?

No that's what happens if you add zero. Multiply by zero and you get zero. Try it on a calculator. 1x0= 0. 2x0= 0 3x0= 0 ...


So you stole my pound? Evil or Very Mad

but yea, Guess this is why I wasnt very good at maths in school :(


Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:44:00 - [19]
 

Loving it so far, looks like it can be extremely profitable for a good group of pilots. So far I've only done the vanguards and I think the override site seems to take considerably longer than the others. I would like to see the hack on the logistics tower last around twice as long as it does now so that not as much time is spent waiting for the next hack to complete. Don't give in to all the scrubs that want to run this stuff solo, EVE has needed some proper group PVE content for a long time and incursion is looking great so far.

Yukino Yuu
Grid Square Removal System
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:45:00 - [20]
 

1. fix the fleet finder. it doesn't work for public fleets.
2. have a little LP and/or ISK reward for belt rats even if its tiny.
3. have runners up rewards for when multiple fleets take out the Flagship. The other sites are fine the way they are. The first Flagship takedown in algintal had 4 fleets in site and I expect to see the same thing happening everytime since the situation is so chaotic and frenzied.
I also aggree with the point that The Snowman brought up in his first post. Other than that I am enjoying this a lot.

ah and the setups that I have been seeing a lot are mostly spider tanked fleets with as many logi pilots that can be found. ships sizes are usually BC and BS with a few assault ships and HACs here and there.
It would be nice to see more frig and cruiser fleets.

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:48:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yeah I agree. I think our scaling outside the "sweet zones" should be better. This is noted and we'll look into it.

Perhaps a modified version of the tournament points system? With some tweaking, it would cover all possibilities effectively.

Cresalle
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:48:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Cresalle on 28/01/2011 14:56:41
The hisec incursions have some serious problems that make them not very fun.

First of all CONCORD is getting in the way of incursions being completed. Whether they're doing it on purpose or not, people in the rep chain are repping rats and shooting fleet members. Being that hisec is populated by noobs this is quite simply inevitable. I recommend a simple modification that can solve this problem:

When you are repping a target in empire and they go GCC your reps should shut off automatically. If you feel like suicide then you can turn them back on.

As it stands CONCORD is killing almost as many people as the sansha and it's really making it ridiculous to try to run the sites since a single person can destroy a whole fleet. Add to this that the already inadequate rewards are cut by 30% in hisec and things start to seem ridiculous. I mean come on, why would CONCORD be more eager to get an incursion kicked out of Amamake or EC-P8R than they would be to get an incursion kicked out of Jita?

The reward mechanic is poorly thought out and utterly broken. Right now people are running incursions for the novelty value, but when that runs out I can't see why anyone would bother with them apart from large groups swamping them with giant fleets just to get them out of the way.

You can go into a vanguard site with a 10 man fleet and start working it, but then an 20 man fleet can come in and wipe it from under you. Since the oversized fleet did the most damage they are the reward candidates, and since their fleet is oversized nobody gets a reward. I agree with the existing fleet-size ratios. Those should remain as they are. Oversized fleets should get jack **** and possibly an eve mail telling them that they suck. On the other hand the obvious fix of making the smallest eligable fleet get the reward would be gamed immediately. Maybe the only-one-fleet mechanic should be reworked.

Additionally the risk/reward ratio is very much under-par. C4 sleeper anoms are far easier than vanguard sites (4 proplerly fit tengus can rip up a C4 anom and fight off interlopers very effectively) and offer exponentially higher profit ratios. Level 4 missions in hisec give out equivalent profit with far less effort and far less risk. Even nulsec belt ratting gives better rewards (and a better chance for faction/officer loot) and can be done easily while half asleep. Even crapping out faction frigs in the militia can make more isk/hour than vanguards and doesn't require anything more than some griding, an understanding of transversal mechanics and the ability to tolerate militia chat.

The LP reward system is quite frankly stupid. LP should be distributed alongside ISK rewards and meet the same qualifications.

The other thing that's problematic here is that the level of organization and competence required almost demands that individuals interested in incursions form a corp. While I don't have a problem with people who form a corp for this reason I think that the majority of people in EVE are already in a corp and probably don't want to have to leave it just so they can run incursions every now and then.

So on the one hand we'll have corps that are set up to run incursions, which could make a lot more money on other activities and deal with a lot less nonsense.

Then we have corps that are already set up that may occasionally run incursions. This will probably the happy middle-ground, but I'm also thinking that this will be the smallest group (in hisec).

Finally the major part of the population have to deal with 2 hours of PUGS just to form a reasonably sane fleet that gets concordokkened 2 minutes in to the first site.

There's a difference between making something a challenge and making it stupidly complicated. At this point hisec incrusions are far to the wrong side of that line.

I'm also concerned about how incursions will effect faction warfare. When your warzone gets incursed you can't exactly just move somewhere else.

Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:49:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Arcuate
1st. Rewards
2nd. Don't make it easier. Let this be long term content that people will need to develop strategies for during the long haul. Don't listen to the constant nagging on the forums, please!


I agree on the difficulty. I've been running these sites on my player character (I was in the final boss fight yesterday too Cool) and I don't think they're too difficult. I think the majority of the balancing work is balancing sites within their tier. Ideally, you'll all vanguard dungeons will have equal value in the players eyes, instead of having popular types of sites, and sites players just avoid. I'm still waiting for the stats, but I'd take a guess and say the mining ones are probably the least run.



I agree on the site difficulty. I'm not sure about the HQs being very PUG friendly. It does require considerable coordination. In the mothership fight yesterday, the first fleet to warp in was pretty much doomed (my fleet). The fleet behind us ended up cleaning up. Losses were astronomical for that first fleet. Logistics didn't even have time to setup reps on the primary, let alone get power transfers up. I don't see that as a difficulty element. That seems more like a design decision. Let the rats be a little surprised about the ships warping into their little party.

Other than that, I'm a logi pilot, so I do enjoy the PUG aspects of Incursion. Very easy to find people needing a basilisk. Very Happy

Now if the extraction graph on PI could just get some attention...

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:51:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: The Snowman
Originally by: Kata Amentis
Anything multiplied by zero is zero. This is known as the zero property of multiplication.


Is it? if I have a pound and I multiply it by nothing, I still have my pound. where did it go?


I'm looking for an accountant for my taxes, and you seem to have all the right qualities for the job.
Please contact me in game to discuss Laughing

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.28 14:58:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Arcuate
Don't make it easier. Let this be long term content that people will need to develop strategies for during the long haul. Don't listen to the constant nagging on the forums, please!


This - so much this. If the players think it's too hard at this stage, it's probably too easy. If they think it's okay. It's *definitely* too easy.

ChromeStriker
Posted - 2011.01.28 15:03:00 - [26]
 

Make sansha come and find you!! for example:
-misiion type spawns outside stations
-if you clear a gate camp and then stay there... reinforcements come and make it harder
-Have sansha ROAM! fleets of sansha could wonder around a system, around planets, roids, gates ect this could give a chance of a gate camp or belt being a bit more chalenging than people thoughtTwisted Evil


Cresalle
Posted - 2011.01.28 15:05:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Cresalle on 28/01/2011 15:06:51
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'm still waiting for the stats, but I'd take a guess and say the mining ones are probably the least run.


Actually I think that particular site is perfect. I like the mechanic of calling in non-combat ships for specialized roles in the sites. I do agree with the earlier comment that hacking the logistics arrays should last longer. I'd say something between a 25% to 50% increase would probably be reasonable. My main problem with those is that the structure resumes reps well before the new hack objective spawns. These things should happen simultaneously.

Also, just because I'm sort of a bastard, you should add a squad of maybe 4 standard (non-incursion level) sansha destroyers to that site which spawn from the main structure in response to codebreaking attempts and go after the hacker. Give the codebreaking frig something to wet their pants about and force the main fleet to defend them.

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2011.01.28 15:05:00 - [28]
 

There was a mining site I went to that had had it's refiner filled (completely) with the local ore as described and nothing happened so everyone there ended up wasting a good few hours tearing down the battlestation by hand.
ugh

Otherwise thy're pretty awesome Twisted Evil

Eraggan Sadarr
Comply Or Die
Posted - 2011.01.28 15:32:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Lothris Andastar

stuff you should do BEFORE it gets released?



Not defending CCP here but you are aware that they had several mass tests doing exactly this?

But mass test participants are just a small part of the customer base. So you can always miss something.

Actually I think it is pretty cool that they consider the feedback and actually listen to the playerbase. I guess some people are never satisfied with anything regardless what...


I think the problem here is that most players on SISI are PVP'ers, and therefore maybe not representative of the typical incursion participater (my hunch is that they will mostly be PVE'ers). So masstests are more of a performance/technical test rather than a balance test.
Originally by: Gnulpie


Anyway: I would like to see Incursion having some MEANING and that they have some CONSEQUENCES. At the moment they are nothing more but a giantic theme park wandering around through New Eden. If you do them, fine. If you don't do them, also fine. There is no lasting impact. It doesn't matter if you do the incursion fast, slow or not at all.

For example it would be better if the roid belts are sucked dry for 5 times as long as the incursion lasted, that would be an incentive to hurry up and fight back as fast as you can - if you fight back within 2 days the impacting result (no ore in this example) will last only 10 days. If you need 7 days then there won't be ore for 35 days.

Or the incursion would influence the agents qualities, the longer the incursion lasts, the more the quality will drop (and only recover slowly).

Or planetary resources will dry up (stolen by the evil sansha), or moon materials or or or

MEANINGFUL ACTIONS. At the moment Incursions are not meaningful at all. When they are gone, all is fine and the same as before. And it doesn't matter if you hurry up to fight back the Sansha or if you don't fight them at all.


I agree completely. Good suggestions!

Wolf Spyder
Posted - 2011.01.28 15:54:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: CCP StevieSG
Incursions are now live, and CCP Soundwave would your feedback on how they have been proceeding. Read his newest blog for details on the latest updates to Incursions, and then share your feedback here and answer these questions:


How is the balance of the sites within their own tier? For example, is there any Vanguard site that is considerably more difficult/time consuming than the others?

What set-ups are you successfully using for what sites?

umm. you might want to re read this post. You missed a word and the last part makes no sense at all lol.

Are there any objectives/functions within sites that are working poorly?

What general issues would you like to point out at this point? Anyway, we’ll keep looking at the feature (and the thread). Please note that changes don’t happen over night, but they will continue coming!


If there’s any other feedback you’d like to share from us, we’d love to here it!


StevieSG
EVE Community Team
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact Us



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (18)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only