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Rosa Larosa
Posted - 2011.01.27 13:17:00 - [1]
 

I was looking for a good fit for Drakes to go in pairs in a C3. Any good advices?

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2011.01.27 16:37:00 - [2]
 

Probably just your average passive-tank mission running Drake will do. Don't use your drones though :)

7 Heavy Missile Launcher IIs

1 Target Painter II
2 Large Shield Extender IIs
1 Magnetic Scattering Amplifier
1 Invulnerability Field II
1 Shield Recharger II

2 Shield Power Relay IIs
2 Ballistic Control System IIs

3 Medium Core Defence Field Purgers

That should be MORE than enough tank for C3s, but I'm not exactly sure, I've never done one. That was my lvl 4 mission fit.

Rosa Larosa
Posted - 2011.01.27 19:05:00 - [3]
 

My current drake fit for a C2 is as follow;
Hi
7 heavy missile launcer II

Mid
1x Invulnerabilitie II
1x Photon Scattering II
1x Heat Dissipation II or Named target painter (Phased one)
3x Large F-S9 Regolith

Low
2x BCS II
2x Shield Power Relay II

Rigs
3x Large Core Defence Field Purger I

Pretty much the same basic Fit than yours, but I was interested in Shield RR too, wich with this fit is kind of lefted out.
I would like to know if there is some of that, but given that is only 2 Drakes, then I don`t know how much can you gain.

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.01.27 23:20:00 - [4]
 

OMG I hate how trendy the Drake has become....

No offence to Rosa...but I hate drakes cause everyone and their mom flys em.

Drakes have become the Honda Civic of Eve

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.01.27 23:45:00 - [5]
 

Shield RR drones could be useful.

Rosa Larosa
Posted - 2011.01.28 00:10:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Rosa Larosa on 28/01/2011 00:12:10
Originally by: NinjaSpud
OMG I hate how trendy the Drake has become....

No offence to Rosa...but I hate drakes cause everyone and their mom flys em.

Drakes have become the Honda Civic of Eve


You are probably right, but before the drake I was using a Raven, and couldn`t do half the things that I do with this ship. The thing, at least in my case, is not that it could be cool or not, is that is a pretty good ship for what I want to do. Better than the Raven.

Shamwow Hookerbeater
Posted - 2011.01.28 02:10:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Shamwow Hookerbeater on 28/01/2011 02:11:24
Edited by: Shamwow Hookerbeater on 28/01/2011 02:10:35
[Drake, WH Drake]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Warrior II x5


This is more for mag and radar sites but just swap a couple bcs's maybe a target painter instead of 3rd shield extender. Though with the nossing it still gets sucked down pretty hard, but with 3 or so its manageable. 2 might be a bit tough now if they nos. Course switch to tech 1 or faction missiles for frigs.

RUF993
Posted - 2011.01.28 02:45:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: NinjaSpud
OMG I hate how trendy the Drake has become....

No offence to Rosa...but I hate drakes cause everyone and their mom flys em.

Drakes have become the Honda Civic of Eve


As if you were the first person to fly a Drake and everyone followed.

They didn't become Honda Civics, they always were. Grow up.

Rosa Larosa
Posted - 2011.01.31 13:21:00 - [9]
 

Something odd happens with the omni damage that the sleepers do. While the EVE HQ gives better statics using 2 invul II mod, in practice, swaping one invul for a photon scattering II gives better statics. And that lead me to the question of what is the real dmg that a sleeper do

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.01.31 13:40:00 - [10]
 

Nah. Domis are more like Civics — you need a certain age before you can comfortably get in one.
Drakes are more like 80:s Golfs… Razz

Shanlara
Posted - 2011.01.31 13:44:00 - [11]
 

the drake is the "hunter" of eve... it's like when you get one of your friend to play eve, and you sit down trying to figure out what they should fly, after a while of fustratingly try to figure it out, you just throw your hands into the air, and in your dieing breath you just yell out "just fly a drake" before you run off to cry in a corner.

Mithrasith
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Mithrasith on 31/01/2011 19:43:57
Originally by: NinjaSpud
OMG I hate how trendy the Drake has become....

No offence to Rosa...but I hate drakes cause everyone and their mom flys em.

Drakes have become the Honda Civic of Eve


Ahhhh the sweet satisfaction of the following words:

Told ya so.

(if I was a smoker, I'd have a cigarette right about here)

Some of us have been arguing rather vehemently for a Drake Nerf since the damn things came out for this very reason (and let me tell you the flaming we take for even suggesteing it). The Drake amounts to EVE on easy mode. The fact that it outclases 3/4 of the Field Command Ship class is reason enough.

This problem will continue to grow, and grow and grow until CCP finally does something about the damn thing and nerf it. But they wont. Why? New player subscription rate statistics FTW.


Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.01.31 20:01:00 - [13]
 


The drake WAS already nerfed a long time ago. It used to be much better. As it is now it seems about right. And I am still primarily an Amarr pilot. The drake is a good ship for caldari space, especially for newer pilots. There are still many 'better' ships for various roles in pvp and pve.

Mithrasith
Posted - 2011.01.31 20:08:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Xina Tutor

The drake WAS already nerfed a long time ago. It used to be much better. As it is now it seems about right. And I am still primarily an Amarr pilot. The drake is a good ship for caldari space, especially for newer pilots. There are still many 'better' ships for various roles in pvp and pve.


I know Im going to regret this, but its like watching a train wreck, you just cant look away.

Care to explain at how you arrive at the solid and riveting "About right" conclusion?

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.01.31 20:21:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Mithrasith
Originally by: Xina Tutor

The drake WAS already nerfed a long time ago. It used to be much better. As it is now it seems about right. And I am still primarily an Amarr pilot. The drake is a good ship for caldari space, especially for newer pilots. There are still many 'better' ships for various roles in pvp and pve.


I know Im going to regret this, but its like watching a train wreck, you just cant look away.

Care to explain at how you arrive at the solid and riveting "About right" conclusion?


because I fly all BC's and they all have pros and cons. the Drake has tank and damage, but it's delayed damage. The cane and harbi don't suffer this and I still have more kills in a harbi. the gallente is likely the 'worst' of the 4... but here is the thing. Any player can train any of these, so it's not like that is any 'advantage' to any player. And it's not as if the drake is some magic ship that can do everything. If that was the case everyone would fly them, which of course they don't. There are better ships once you get the skills to fly them, or better ships for particular roles. We do see large drake gangs now and then, but you also see large BS and Hac gangs. There seems to be a great nerf metality in EVE, and if you let it continue we might as well all be flying haulers in a couple of years.

Mithrasith
Posted - 2011.01.31 20:29:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Mithrasith on 31/01/2011 20:30:04
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Originally by: Mithrasith

I know Im going to regret this, but its like watching a train wreck, you just cant look away.

Care to explain at how you arrive at the solid and riveting "About right" conclusion?


because I fly all BC's and they all have pros and cons. the Drake has tank and damage, but it's delayed damage. The cane and harbi don't suffer this and I still have more kills in a harbi. the gallente is likely the 'worst' of the 4... but here is the thing. Any player can train any of these, so it's not like that is any 'advantage' to any player. And it's not as if the drake is some magic ship that can do everything. If that was the case everyone would fly them, which of course they don't. There are better ships once you get the skills to fly them, or better ships for particular roles. We do see large drake gangs now and then, but you also see large BS and Hac gangs. There seems to be a great nerf metality in EVE, and if you let it continue we might as well all be flying haulers in a couple of years.


Great - so a couple of questions for you.

* What else do you fly outside of BC's? Because I think that's your problem right there. Comparing solely within the BC Class is myopic at best. All ships have to be balanced with respect to the other classes as well - otherwise you might as well have killer Tier 2 Frigates that can out-class Tech 2 Cruisers, BC's, BS's, FCS's, T3's etc.

* You say that if they were so great, everyone would fly them. Its the number one combat ship flown in EVE FFS! You kind of shot yourself in the foot there, because just about everyone does fly them, and if they dont currently they are hastily cross training to them.

Ship Type No. of Ships % of Total Change
1 Hulk 17,195 2.47% 1
2 Drake 16,639 2.39% 1
3 Kestrel 11,102 1.59% 1
4 Rifter 10,358 1.49% 1
5 Bestower 8,204 1.18% 2
6 Retriever 7,940 1.14% -
7 Badger Mark II 7,857 1.13% 1
8 Hurricane 7,565 1.09% 2
9 Catalyst 7,028 1.01% 2
10 Raven 6,910 0.99% -1

* You see large HAC gangs - yes - HAC's also require a lot more skill time training and a lot more cost for a very small amount (and in some cases) NO performance boost. Does that make sense? No

*Yes you see some BS Gangs. Again - BS's take more Skill points to pilot effectively than a BC. Does it make sense that you would see more of these types of ships for heavy lifting type of work? YES. However, when a fleet of drakes can do it better, and they take less SP's and less ISK - that no longer makes sense.

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.01.31 20:53:00 - [17]
 


While your figures show, as we all know, that a lot of people fly drakes (as they are easier - missiles are easy) it also shows clearly that everyone does not fly them (especially most of the time) by a very long way :)

I fly most ships in eve over a number of characters aside from supers and titan. That would be mostly command ships and BS for PVE (with my pick being the nighthawk) and BC's and BS, HACs, bombers, caps in pvp. I fly a drake as it's an easy all rounder, but the harbi and cane are nice as well. In BS class Amarr and others eat caldari in pvp, so I suppose we need to nerf those as well :P

There is a huge choice in PVP, with the drake as the easy option. Clearly, however, the drake can not cover all pvp. It is one of the few that doubles as PVE (maybe that is what annoys people. meh.) In PVE there are clearly many better ships, but people will use a drake as it's easy even if it does mission slower than the alternatives.

Anyway. Most people seem to choose the hulk for mining. maybe we need to nerf that :P

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.01.31 21:00:00 - [18]
 


One thing we should note is that the drake acts as a good 'equalizer' for newer players. It doesn't take that long to train and it is a good allrounder. This means that a new player can actually join eve and be effective is a reasonable time. We should never take that away if we want new people. The drake is not the only option there, but it is one of those useful ships for the new people.

Mithrasith
Posted - 2011.01.31 21:13:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Xina Tutor

While your figures show, as we all know, that a lot of people fly drakes (as they are easier - missiles are easy) it also shows clearly that everyone does not fly them (especially most of the time) by a very long way :)

I fly most ships in eve over a number of characters aside from supers and titan. That would be mostly command ships and BS for PVE (with my pick being the nighthawk) and BC's and BS, HACs, bombers, caps in pvp. I fly a drake as it's an easy all rounder, but the harbi and cane are nice as well. In BS class Amarr and others eat caldari in pvp, so I suppose we need to nerf those as well :P

There is a huge choice in PVP, with the drake as the easy option. Clearly, however, the drake can not cover all pvp. It is one of the few that doubles as PVE (maybe that is what annoys people. meh.) In PVE there are clearly many better ships, but people will use a drake as it's easy even if it does mission slower than the alternatives.

Anyway. Most people seem to choose the hulk for mining. maybe we need to nerf that :P


So you would pick the Nighthawk despite the fact that the Drake, in sheer DPS and tank outclasses the Nighthawk? Im not sure why you would choose that.

And yes I would be in favor of nerfig the Hulk IF it was in the same position as the Drake - that being that it outclassed a ship which took more training time, and cost more isk, yet it (the hulk) performed better than our mythical mining ship. That only makes sense. Same with the Drake. It either outperforms many other ships in PvP and PVE that cost more and take more training time, OR the level of performance it has is not commensurate with the amount of time and cost vs. other more expensive ships (skill wise and ISK wise). I think we can all see that however by the sheer number of people that choose the ship, even vetran pilots.

Its a cheap, very effective solution.

and re: New pilots. Yes you have a point there, however I would encourage you to further examine the implications that Ive seen many times in this forum. People train up the Drake, use the drake, and then come here and go "So now what? What's better and more versatile than the drake? certainly there must be something to graduate to". To which they receive the response: "Nope. No other ship has the same versatility, tank and DPS that the Drake does overall. There is no real "next step up" from there.

As a result, many are dissapointed.

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.01.31 23:56:00 - [20]
 


I think most people on these forums would argue that the raven and especially the CNR is the ship for lvl 4 missions. I don't like it myself, but it does appear to be the ship to use for sheer isk/hour. The drake is not the 'best' lvl 4 mission ship, even though it will do the job. You will not find many who will argue that the drake is the best lvl 4 ship, and there are certainly places to go after the drake.

And seriously, the drake does not outclass the nighthawk. It is cheaper, sure, but when you are talking lvl 4 mission ships, or even a ship for a safe 0.0 anomaly, price is hardly an issue since you don't lose these ships. You will get better isk/hour with a nighthawk or a T3 than you will a drake, even though, as said, the Drake will do the job okay.

And this is an upgrade path for the new Drake pilot. Nighthawk, Tengu, both using the same basic skill set. An easy upgrade. Most in PVE will head for the Raven, of course.

New pilots are not limited by the drake (or other easy to skill ships) rather they allow the pilot to better experience EVE as quickly as possible and then move on to other ships as they wish.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.02.01 00:00:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Xina Tutor
but it's delayed damage.


Barely a drawback.

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.02.01 00:09:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Xina Tutor
but it's delayed damage.


Barely a drawback.


When it comes to mixed fleets and killmails it can be ;)

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.01 00:43:00 - [23]
 

Nononono.....

C3 = roaming gang in and out of WH's, right?

Tell me, what do you use to find the entrance to the unknown system?

A scanner!

What are you gonan do if you only have 1 scanner on 1 ship in your gang, and he dies, and the entrance closes? You are all screwed!

Pleasepleaseplease, if you are a gang roving in and out of WHs, everyone should have their own core probe launcher fitted to a high and offlined if need be. Fill it with probes. That way, you should be fine to exit whenever you want.

WHs closing on you in an unknown system is NOT pleasant.

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.02.01 01:11:00 - [24]
 


I always take an (expendable) scanning alt who is first in and last out of the system... and yeah. If you can fit a probe launcher then do it.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.02.01 03:34:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Belfelmalak on 01/02/2011 03:35:04
When you see the numbers of people using it and its versitility coupled with its dominance couldn't you make the same agruments for nerfing the Cane?

It has speed, DPS and agility. It can change damage types and has great falloff. Its damage is instant and the Cane can be shield or armor tanked. The Cane and Rifter are why people call the Matari Winmatar.

So if you are going to argue a Drake nerf shouldn't you also be asking for a Cane nerf as well?

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.01 03:54:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Target Painter on 01/02/2011 03:57:07
Originally by: Belfelmalak
When you see the numbers of people using it and its versitility coupled with its dominance couldn't you make the same agruments for nerfing the Cane?


Because people have the idea that missileboats are skill-less.

Quote:
It has speed, DPS and agility. It can change damage types and has great falloff. Its damage is instant and the Cane can be shield or armor tanked.


If you're going to do this, do it right. Like so:

The Hurricane is utterly imbalanced, it is the ONLY BC that can fit a FULL RACK of it's HIGHEST DPS weapons, solid tank, three damage mods and still have slots left for tackle, speed mods, neuts, etc. Oh and it has a dronebay as well. All of this, without fitting mods/rigs/implants or even decent fitting skills.

Meanwhile, the nearest comparable BC, the Harbinger, has to limp along with meta LSEs if shield tanked thanks to the Harbinger's gimped CPU, or it has to downgrade it's lasers to fit a 1600mm plate if armor-tanked, thanks to HPLs being so PG-hungry. Even with an ACR, you still need to keep two FMPs to properly (1600mm plate) tank your Harbinger. And you still don't have the PG for a neut at this point, meaning that a full gank fit with armor tank is just plain unviable. You already give up speed by armor tanking, also giving up buffer to get the 2 ACRs necessary to have a medium neut in the last high slot is just insult after injury.

The Hurricane has easier fitting, is faster, hits harder thanks to damage selection, makes no compromises for maximum gank and requires very little SP to get into. Nerf it NOW.

Quote:
The Cane and Rifter are why people call the Matari Winmatar.


Rifter, Jaguar, Rupture, Vagabond, Scimitar, Hurricane, Sleipnir, and Loki are why people call them "Winmatar."

Nobody complains about the Tempest, except to say that BS solo PvP is dead in the current meta and so the NanoPest is useless. The Maelstrom was considered a distant second to the Raven in terms of PvE and utterly irrelevant in large fleets. Minmatar capitals are still (quite literally) a punchline (double Nidhoggur, "negro" Caps).

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.02.01 04:03:00 - [27]
 

This^^^^

I fly a Harbinger so I say nerf the Cane and the Drake........Twisted Evil

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.02.01 04:09:00 - [28]
 


Nerfing sux. Just make the Harbi a bit better ;)

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.01 04:12:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Belfelmalak
This^^^^

I fly a Harbinger so I say nerf the Cane and the Drake........Twisted Evil


Originally by: Xina Tutor

Nerfing sux. Just make the Harbi a bit better ;)


I wasn't being serious. I was just showing you how to divert attention away from big picture and get into nitpicky stats that make the Hurricane seem imbalanced.

Just like people do with the Drake.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2011.02.01 04:31:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: Belfelmalak
This^^^^

I fly a Harbinger so I say nerf the Cane and the Drake........Twisted Evil


Originally by: Xina Tutor

Nerfing sux. Just make the Harbi a bit better ;)


I wasn't being serious. I was just showing you how to divert attention away from big picture and get into nitpicky stats that make the Hurricane seem imbalanced.

Just like people do with the Drake.



I know you were being sarcastic. I was too. I'm tired of hearing nerf this or that all of the time. I would like to be able to change damage types with lasers though. To me that would make the Harbi's slowness more acceptable


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