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Grash Freedom
I Maza
Posted - 2011.01.24 15:29:00 - [1]

Edited by: Grash Freedom on 24/01/2011 15:46:56
Edited by: Grash Freedom on 24/01/2011 15:37:42

Dear CCP
Here is an interesting idea/suggestion,
1)allow us to remove skills and store the removed SPs to an unallocated skill point tab on char sheet, implement a new system were the unallocated SPs are stored in categories i.e. Corporation Management/Drones/Mechanic etc., the later to avoid massive character spec change and better control, you wouldn’t want a char to farm SPs with intelligence and wisdom maxed out and apply those on perception memory skills, or maybe categorize the SPs by the combined needed attribute i.e. Perception + Intelligence! Best option imo (skills are removed from top down, e.i you cannot remove Gallente frig skill if you have Gallente cruiser trained, cruiser should be removed first then the frig skill and so on)

2)Give us the option to sell/buy the unallocated SPs(by combined attribute category) on the market

3)Limit the amount of removed skill points to 10% of total SPs per character per month, if one wishes for more than 10% he can pay almost the same amount as character transfer fees around 15 usd or Consume one GTC or SPC(skill point card) that will let him unallocate 100% of his skills and sell directly on the market.

4)Limit the amount of applied unallocated SPs to 20% of total SPs the char has per month(not bought, you can buy but cannot apply more than x%/month), Again if someone’s wishes to allocate more than 20% he should pay 15 usd or Consume a GTC or SPC(skill point card).

5)Keep the Currect character transfer option, for characters that have many expensive skills and worth selling as a whole, or Remove the transfer option in order to create an ISK sink around skills, which wouldn’t affect anything really, supply and demand would stabilize the price exactly right.

Flow of the above,
step1 PVP Pilot X has 100mils SPs, unallocates 10mils(10%) SPs from industry(old orientation of char),
step2 10mils SPs are categorized according to attribute combination Memory + Intelligence,
step3 opens market and place a sell order for 10mils Memory + Intelligence SPs for X ISKs per SP,
step4 Pilot Y with 30mils SPs buys 6mils(20%) SPs and applies them on skills with Memory + Intelligence,
step5 Pilot Z with 4 mil SPs buys 4 mils SPs + another 36mils(1000%) pays or consumes one GTC, he then can apply the Bought SPs to his char

All Parties above are happy cause they are in a win win situation
1) Pilot X got rid useless SPs and got plenty of ISKs for them
2) Pilot Y got the needed SPs with the monthly limit he is allowed, paying the amount HE could afford
3) Pilot Z(newcomer) got closer to the dream, as he kept his character name, bought the SPs he needed instead of getting a new character via the forums, and NOT stop using his first character and jumping to the new toon,
4) CCP got RL cash via GTC consumption or SPC(skill point card)
5) Gap between old and new Pilots is shrinking
6)New Pilots will find EVE to be viable, increased number of recurring subs after 1 month of play

1) Possible account drop, as people will skill alts via isk hence removing the need for 2 or more accounts,
But this is debatable, if the demand rise so high it will drive the ISKs per SP way up, and pilots will find it cheaper to train the char than to buy the SPs, also losing the multi account gaming which is the real ISK making option, in my case I would keep all accounts(due to all helping me make iskies, but skill up some of the alts that I was going to sell to buy a better one in their slots

Grash Freedom
I Maza
Posted - 2011.01.24 15:32:00 - [2]

Edited by: Grash Freedom on 24/01/2011 15:40:44
Negatives: (continued)

2) Possible huge increased price of SPs as with the above method it will become much easier to skill your char(Huge Demand) but also easier to sell not needed SPs from(Huge Supply) not 100% sure about this one,
But then again even if it is compared to character transfers way to expensive this wouldn’t be a bad thing, it is not a matter of how many SPs you have but how many you REALLY use, focusing more on the things you need you can be on a constant sell-buy rampage every month getting rid of the ones you do not use anymore and buying the ones you need

Current ‘’issues’’ with the eve training system, imo

a)For new pilots it is almost impossible to understand the concept of the game from the beginning, they feel the need to compete with the rest but the skill point sky is so high that they feel unimportant and impossible to reach, sure the removal of the learning have helped, but the rate of sp/hour remains the same for both and the gap between old and new is still

I have spoken with many fresher’s, all of them at some point asked me the same question “how many SPs you have” and when they heard the answer, the reply was similar between them “that’s like 6 years of training, I am NEVER going to get there”

Now I am finding myself defending the concept and but in the end accepting that the system is flawed but there are workarounds, ingame skills play little role on the ISK making part and hence if someone find his way on making enough ISKs then he can buy a character via the forums.

By definition new players that will decide to stay on the game, at some point within the first second year will wish/consider/buy a character, so they are building characters that will not use in the future, instead they will continue their legacy in EVE with someone else’s character.

That’s totally so wrong, firstly for the RP need that anybody at some point felt, you just can’t RP properly when you change characters and names every 6-12 months, and second that somebody is getting forced by the system to buy a char with a bunch of skills that 60%-70% of those are useless or not needed at that time for the play style of that specific buyer, and yet pay stupid sums of ISKs just because the rest 30-40% of the skills do match the needs of the buyer. Not a happy customer

b) Old dogs, and eve has now many of those pilots that, like me have ended up with 3-4 or more accounts just to be able to play the game and NOT use 3 accounts for skilling but just dual boxing for various reasons, pvp while afk haul you alt, multifreighter runs, mining ops, spying etc, seriously I have stopped caring for the skills, I keep the accounts active cause I need the multicharacter play, I now have 4 accounts with various focus specific characters in each, and I find myself wondering for hours what the hell should I train on basically all my chars, as I have maxed the skills that each of the chars was intended at first, I try not to train random crap but still I train NOT Needed skills. That’s a waste of training and with above system the training time that has no point to me nowadays, will again be valuable to me

Anyway, I had nothing better to do today at the office, over and out

Gavjack Bunk
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2011.01.24 15:51:00 - [3]

Normally when this comes up, it comes in the form of setting your skill training running on a skill that can be extracted when complete in the form of a memory pill that can be traded.

So maybe you'd train instead of saying Medium Projectile Turret, once you had that skill, you could train it again but into a Medium Projectile Turret memory pill. You'd then extract the pill, and stick it on the market for absolutely ridiculous prices.

I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.24 15:54:00 - [4]

Edited by: Horizonist on 24/01/2011 16:06:02
[Edited for terrible grammar]

First off, thanks for your input, it is obvious that you have put a lot of effort and thought into this proposal, and that is always a good thing.

However, I do not see this getting wide support. For one, I can not support it.

Why not? Because I believe the skill system is linked to one of the most crucial aspects of the Eve experience - cause and effect, action and consequence. In Eve, we live with the skills we train, we can change path in our training, and hence make our character develop in a different direction, but there is no undoing the past, there is no recycling it, and investing it into something else.

If SP trading/buying was to be implemented, it is hard for me to predict where this game would go.

Posted - 2011.01.24 15:56:00 - [5]

Agreed. EVE should NOT have any form of skill trading or extracting or buying.

Live and learn, you should already be extremely thankful there's the ability to sell/buy/trade your account.

Grash Freedom
I Maza
Posted - 2011.01.24 16:00:00 - [6]

Edited by: Grash Freedom on 24/01/2011 16:00:56

Hey at least you are proposing and not trolling, i was expecting a huge wtfomgpwngivemeyourstuff first post hehe. thats an option, my problem is that i have tens millions of skill that i used back in 2005 which now i really do not need them, why not those skill get transfered to somebody that needs them,
in my case most of industrial skills are a total waste of pixels on my screen, or science skill that i ones skilled to do invention, i do not do invention any more, i did but not anymore,
also i do not care if i my total sps are 30-40 -50 mils or 100mils, i do care though for what i do nowdays in New Eden, the rest is history

Grash Freedom
I Maza
Posted - 2011.01.24 16:04:00 - [7]

Originally by: Gemberslaafje
Agreed. EVE should NOT have any form of skill trading or extracting or buying.

Live and learn, you should already be extremely thankful there's the ability to sell/buy/trade your account.

Thats my point it is already happening but in a different way, i have, no bull****, 12 high sp characters, all aspects, focus training all arrounders, mission runners, miners, producers pvpers, you name it i have it, and i have lost the contact ingame, my friends in eve do not even remember which ones are my chars

Grash Freedom
I Maza
Posted - 2011.01.24 16:07:00 - [8]

Edited by: Grash Freedom on 24/01/2011 16:11:18
Originally by: Horizonist
the most crucial aspects of the Eve experience - cause and effect, action and consequence.

Cause and effect i like that one, thats a good debate, as for WOW i have no idea whats is going on there, eve is the only MMoRPG i am in the last 6 years

back to the topic, in RL i go to uni get a degree, but i never work on my subject as i ended up to hate it, now what are my option? to do something else, study another course and get an alternitive orientation,

lets say now, that 20 years have past, would i remember my first course/degree in detail even thought i am not in the field since i got that degree? No, and i speak by experience, its the same thing really

Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.24 16:10:00 - [9]

Originally by: Grash Freedom
Originally by: Horizonist
the most crucial aspects of the Eve experience - cause and effect, action and consequence.

Cause and effect i like that one, thats a good debate, as for WOW i have no idea whats is going on there, eve is the only MMoRPG i am in the last 6 years

I do not play WoW myself, and I will never do so. My little brother does however, and from what he has told me it is fully possible there to undo and replace all your learnt skills pretty, so you are at any point free to redo you entire character. Implementing that into Eve would be catastrophic, as I see it, it would simply (not to repeat myself) take away a key aspect of the game that makes it so unique.

Posted - 2011.01.24 17:36:00 - [10]

I don't like the idea. The reason being is that at the start a new char has no idea what to learn, so they tend to learn the basics of everything (except specialist alts). After a while players specialise, but they have a background of general skills. If you can unlearn things and recycle the SP, voila, insta-characater-changing, and a only specialists will exist - not ideal for an RP game.

You should have to live with your own ****ups.

Though the thought of insta retraining my hybrid skills is somewhat appealing....

Demolition Men
Posted - 2011.01.24 18:32:00 - [11]

I must have been lucky. 80 million SP later and I don’t regret training a single skill in the over 4 years I have playing.

This is a truly terrible idea. Under no circumstance should skill points be for sale for any reason. The sale of skill points is antithetical to Eve Online’s popularity and growth.


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