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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:40:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Mijano
I suggest you do. Sweden wasn't 'Sweden' when we had vikings here. We were too busy fighting you around the 17th century that we couldn't focus on enslaving people in West Africa.
That's like saying the USA wasn't the USA before the civil war.

You do appreciate the fact that slaves do not have to be imported to be slaves, yes?

Go back through European and and Scandinavian history and you'll see lots of experience with slavery. Most of it just wasn't imported.

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:42:00 - [32]
 

4/10 for actually getting me to read all the way to 2nd page.

Aelisha
Gallente
Nisaba Syndicate
NISYN Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:42:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Aelisha on 20/01/2011 13:42:50
Maybe in your area Mijano, I use terminology that is correct by the conventions of my upbringing and education.

I did not reference the OP in my post, and your statement about Racial Motivation (not Racism, that's important) does not mesh with my statement concerning PC rabble rousing regarding 'racism'. In short, nothing in myp ost references the OP, I am referencing the fact that this thread contains 'flaying the skin off of an already dead equine' topics dredged up by the bottom feeders of 'intellectualism'.

In short, I in no way referenced your good self or your OP, besides pointing out what those who came after you have done with the raw material provided.

As for describing yourself as liberal, no one is perfect.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:42:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: De''Veldrin on 20/01/2011 13:47:35
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Mijano
I didn't notice this. I remember my picture with those sunglasses. He reminded me of an ugly MC-driver. My eyes are fully working. It wasn't obvious enough. Of course I didn't spend a lot of time looking at my character, and perhaps I let the word 'sunburn' run through my head, but I never, ever, realized he was of African descent (not that I'd have cared when it was but an avatar, but now it's about to be so much more).

You have just as much sunburn now as you had then and you look like you are from Philippines/Indonesia, not Africa.


This. I work with quite a few folks of Polynesian/Pacific Island descent and your character looks far more like them than it does any African culture I'm familiar with.

Originally by: Mijano

It does sure as sh!t don't look black now either.

The truth is that I wouldn't give a crap about the race of my character if it wasn't for the fact that I'm soon going to walk and talk and whatnot with it and it will represent me as an individual. I am a Scandinavian. I want my character to represent that fact. Like it would've been me thousands of years from now.


Why do you care so much about the appearance of a fictional character in a role playing setting exactly? That's like saying "Well I thought my Night Elf Hunter would look more human, since I have to walk around as her all day."

To paraphrase and misquote Shakespeare, "Methinks you doth protest too much."

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:47:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Mijano
The truth is that I wouldn't give a crap about the race of my character if it wasn't for the fact that I'm soon going to walk and talk and whatnot with it and it will represent me as an individual. I am a Scandinavian. I want my character to represent that fact. Like it would've been me thousands of years from now.

Your original char wasn't looking even the slightest scandinavian tbh.

So, now you have one simple option, sell the current char, buy a new one of your approved shape and colour and be happy ever after.

Mijano
Minmatar
Sons Of 0din
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:49:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Mijano on 20/01/2011 14:05:52
Edited by: Mijano on 20/01/2011 14:05:00
Edited by: Mijano on 20/01/2011 13:56:42
Edited by: Mijano on 20/01/2011 13:52:50
Edited by: Mijano on 20/01/2011 13:51:20
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Mijano
I suggest you do. Sweden wasn't 'Sweden' when we had vikings here. We were too busy fighting you around the 17th century that we couldn't focus on enslaving people in West Africa.
That's like saying the USA wasn't the USA before the civil war.

You do appreciate the fact that slaves do not have to be imported to be slaves, yes?

Go back through European and and Scandinavian history and you'll see lots of experience with slavery. Most of it just wasn't imported.

You obviously have absolutely no idea what you're talking about to an extent that it's almost laughable. See. This me laughing -> Surprised No, wait. This is me laughing -> Smile

I've already told you that we had 50 slavery-ships out of 35'000. On our colonies slavery wasn't illegal. In Sweden, it was.

But we aren't here to discuss slavery in Scandinavia, which is a good thing for you, considering that you might as well have read up on slavery in the Lord of the Rings seeing your knowledge about the subject.

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Mijano
The truth is that I wouldn't give a crap about the race of my character if it wasn't for the fact that I'm soon going to walk and talk and whatnot with it and it will represent me as an individual. I am a Scandinavian. I want my character to represent that fact. Like it would've been me thousands of years from now.

Your original char wasn't looking even the slightest scandinavian tbh.

So, now you have one simple option, sell the current char, buy a new one of your approved shape and colour and be happy ever after.

I have already explained this.

*Trying to breath not to answer in irritation*

Listen. It's a difference now, and the difference I'm talking about is that before this patch we had a picture. Soon we will have an avatar in a 3D environment representing us. It's quite the difference, don't you think?

EDIT: I think I may have answered the wrong post. My apologies.

No, that option isn't available for me since I only have 2m SP. I'll wait and hope that a bloodline and/or race-change will come available. Not expecting such, though.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.01.20 14:25:00 - [37]
 

Mijano, you should realy stop. if you want to change character, do it. 2mil skill points is one month of training or so. easier to now than later.

if you want to promote for ability to change bloodline, do it in Features and Ideas discussion. there are several threads there.

but if you think that whole game will change for everyone because you just realised Brutor are black, you are on very slippery ground.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.20 14:27:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Mijano
EDIT: I think I may have answered the wrong post. My apologies.

No, that option isn't available for me since I only have 2m SP. I'll wait and hope that a bloodline and/or race-change will come available. Not expecting such, though.


With 2m SP it's only a month to restart from fresh, easiest solution tbh.

amarian arch
Posted - 2011.01.20 15:06:00 - [39]
 

Gotta catch em all!

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:28:00 - [40]
 

errrrr, Brutor have always looked black (depending on the lighting settings used when you made your char).

CCP will take action against you for throwing around skin-tone insults, they have since I started playing and I don't see them changing the policy any time soon.

Been playing a Brutor for 5 years now, and spent a year of that in CVA. I know what I'm talking about on this one ^^

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:57:00 - [41]
 

Originally, the Brutor tribe was modeled off the Muari of New Zealand.

I dont know whey they are now more African than Muari.

Mitara Newelle
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.20 18:19:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Mijano

So, to the topic, will role-playing Amarr become more racially motivated? We can now actually see ourselves and which race we belong to. Not the names 'Amarr', 'Gallente', 'Minmatar' and so forward. We can RELATE to this because we are talking about white people, black people and Asians. This changes the entire situation.

So is role-playing Amarr going to be more racially motivated? Is the mixing of our worlds races (Africans, Asians and Caucasians) within Minmatar-race a try to make sure this isn't white vs black people?


Nothing has changed, you could tell much more easily which race a toon belonged to with the old portraits imho. Amarr has always been racist, oft times even within the Amarr bloodlines. That's how Amarr rolls though - True Amarr at the top, Khanid, then us Ni-Kunni. Of course there are always exceptions, but I think generally this hierarchy is the norm. The Amarr people(all inclusive now) see themselves as the betters of the lesser races. None of this is new.


Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.01.22 00:55:00 - [43]
 

matar stations ****in stink something aweful, you can't even wash that smell out!

DWEnvision
Posted - 2011.01.22 01:06:00 - [44]
 

Wow, I'm amazed that this conversation is actually going on. Wait.. Actually, I'm not.. I guess that no matter how far we more forward, there will always be someone that wants to make something about race out of nothing.. Very disappointing..

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.01.22 02:14:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 22/01/2011 02:15:25
Originally by: DWEnvision
Wow, I'm amazed that this conversation is actually going on. Wait.. Actually, I'm not.. I guess that no matter how far we more forward, there will always be someone that wants to make something about race out of nothing.. Very disappointing..


Strange isn't it, seems US culture is so hung-up on race that *everything* becomes about race.

Race is a cool thing, it keeps humans diverse and makes sure we can adapt to any environmental and pathological changes.

Recently KFC Australia had a commercial where an aussie cricket supporter is in with a crowd of West-Indies fans with their drums and dancing (not African).
To shut them up he hands around a bucket of chicken.... You can't play drums with your hands full..... (we have no idea of the fried chicken slavery thing)
This commercial makes it onto youtube, the US media explodes with "aussies are racist", fried chicken and blacks blah blah blah.

"I have lots of black friends" basically sums up the US politically correct hypocrisy.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2011.01.22 02:39:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Mijano
So it's religiously motivated?


Yes, the Amarr believe they're god's chosen, and other races exist to serve them, which could take this whole thing in a much more controversial direction.

Space Jew Sandwitch
Posted - 2011.01.22 02:41:00 - [47]
 

I keep a black miner in empire who farms for me in the throne worlds. I hope that counts

Zhan Shi
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.22 06:45:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Zhan Shi on 22/01/2011 06:48:30
Originally by: Rodj Blake

Amarrians aren't picky.



Nop, we are not Very Happy

Mijano
Minmatar
Sons Of 0din
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.01.22 17:23:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Mijano on 22/01/2011 17:30:09
Edited by: Mijano on 22/01/2011 17:25:23
What really fakkin' irritates me, is that so many people are so afraid of speaking about 'race' that only the goddamn WORD makes you cry like a fukn r'ape victim. It's PATHETIC. YOU ARE THE RACISTS HERE. It's just like in Sweden. I mean, if Swedish people owned EVE, I'd have been banned after the mail I sent to support where I asked if it would ever going to be possible to change bloodline and/or race due to me not being able to identify with any race other than CAUCASIAN.

How you survive in your everyday life exceeds my power to imagine. I actually feel sick just the thought of how overwhelmingly large a number you people are.

You create the racism. You are aware of this, are you not? Life isn't supposed to be about being too scared to talk about certain topics, and it's not supposed to be about the hate that you people are spreading to every corner of the world. You create the violence which you say you seek to destroy, and you will pay a deep price for it when you realize the people underground has grown into an insane number of people.

Several times have I now been called 'racist' due to me expressing that I want to change into a Caucasian bloodline/race so I can relate and identify myself with the character I play. What you stupid, ignorant people seem to fail to realize is that I just want to be able to relate to my character. WE PLAY HUMANS, AFTER ALL. NOT PURPLE ELVES, GREEN ORCS OR BLUE TROLLS.

I really hope you people will grow up someday, and realize that the world ain't painted in black and white. If I believed in a 'god', I would thank him everyday for not making me an ignorant idiot like you people. Instead of going through life being scared to talk about things that may or may not be controversial, I walk through life happy.

I pity you scared people, and I just don't have enough disgust for you all.

EDIT: And, for the record, I am very happy how my new picture turned out.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.22 17:43:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 22/01/2011 17:43:03
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Mijano
So it's religiously motivated?


Yes, the Amarr believe they're god's chosen, and other races exist to serve them, which could take this whole thing in a much more controversial direction.

Well races being "peoples", nothing to do with skin colour or any genetics what that's concerned. The Khanid are also part of the Amarr empire and we also have the Amattar mandate, who have nothing in common with other Amarr population.

So yes I'd say it's religiously inspired, not so much "racial".
And no they're not picky :)

Dani WH
Posted - 2011.01.22 18:31:00 - [51]
 

This makes no sense, for each race there are 3 bloodlines. If im not wrong theres an asian-looking bloodline for each race. The others are more randomish, for example all caldarians look european/US. Gallente look french.

Ive seen minmatar characters looking white, specially females, or Amarr ones looking dark.


TLDR: there are several race-looking options for every EVE race.

nihlanth
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.22 18:35:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: nihlanth on 22/01/2011 18:56:26


There is ethnocentrism anywhere you look in real life. That being said, ethnocentrism is not racism. Racism involves the active irrational hatred and aggression towards a certain race. Ethnocentrism is simply about racial preferences.

Slavery would be a practice of ethnocentrism in the perspective of the master, because the goal of the slave master is to keep the slave alive as long as possible because he/she is an investment for the master. Most, if not all of the slaves would be of a different race from the master since he would prefer a different race to be his slave.

For instance you will never see an Amarr enslaving another Amarr, but we know that the ni-kunni were breifly enslaved at one point but then became integrated into Amarrian society as time went on, because the Amarrians found them to be more useful as participants in their society. I'm sure that the Amarr would have also enslaved the Khanid if they felt that the Khanid could be easily subjugated. Brutors on the other hand, have more robust physical characteristics so the Amarrians would see them as useful work-horses, or in other words, slaves.

Once the slave desires and fights for freedom from his master, then the master's ethnocentrism will usually turn to hatred, or racism. The master will punish the slave's desire for basic human rights (usually by killing the freed slave); this means that the master is hypocritical and irrational since the slave is a human after all, just like the master.

But of course nobody desires to be a slave in the first place so the very act of slavery is considered racism to the slave, if he sees that most of the other slaves are of the same race as he. Since the master is oblivious to the concept of universal human rights he sees no problem or hatred with the slave, until the slave shatters his naive expectations.

As you can see, determining what is racism is not so cut-and-dry.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.22 18:56:00 - [53]
 

If people are not capable of differentiating between the real world and a virtual world they need professional help .. quite literally, delusions are dangerous as hell.
Games such as Eve let us explore the darker side of our nature without the "standard" collateral damage.

Amarr's original enslavement of the Matari was religiously (and economically) motivated. Bringing light to the darkest corners of the cluster is the name of the game, it is the basis of the reclaiming.
Slaves of other races are thus because of crimes against the Empire, enslavement is kind of like capital punishment.

Consider that slavery has always been the cornerstone national/regional economics. All the way back from the Egyptian Pharaohs, through to the modern day minimum wage+corporate healthcare and/or housing.
Name changes but the circumstances are for all intents and purposes the same, you are locked into a job for as long as the employer sees fit .. the only thing that has really changed the last couple of hundred years is that it is no longer allowed to kill run-aways outright.

Mankind is the most malevolent and insidious creature that has ever evolved, political correctness is just a coping mechanism.

Rusty Sprocket
Posted - 2011.01.22 19:38:00 - [54]
 

They took away our facial tattoos, and this was Minmatar identity, our tribal warlike identity. For those players that chose their race in a roleplaying game to actually get into the personality of their character and the backstory of the race, I am sad to see what they've done with the Minmatar character creation, it very much lacks in the tribal feel, which is what originally drove me to the Minmatar races.

To the op subject of racism, the amarr have always been racist slavers and religious zealots...you realizing that your Brutor is not white is not going to change a thing.

Fred Barbossa
Free Mineral Collective
Posted - 2011.01.22 19:52:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Fred Barbossa on 22/01/2011 19:54:19
Please clear out your white guilt and realize in history and in sci-fi civilizations people have been enslaved not because they look different but because the conquering race conquered them.




Mijano
Minmatar
Sons Of 0din
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.01.22 20:06:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: nihlanth
Edited by: nihlanth on 22/01/2011 18:56:26


There is ethnocentrism anywhere you look in real life. That being said, ethnocentrism is not racism. Racism involves the active irrational hatred and aggression towards a certain race. Ethnocentrism is simply about racial preferences.

Slavery would be a practice of ethnocentrism in the perspective of the master, because the goal of the slave master is to keep the slave alive as long as possible because he/she is an investment for the master. Most, if not all of the slaves would be of a different race from the master since he would prefer a different race to be his slave.

For instance you will never see an Amarr enslaving another Amarr, but we know that the ni-kunni were breifly enslaved at one point but then became integrated into Amarrian society as time went on, because the Amarrians found them to be more useful as participants in their society. I'm sure that the Amarr would have also enslaved the Khanid if they felt that the Khanid could be easily subjugated. Brutors on the other hand, have more robust physical characteristics so the Amarrians would see them as useful work-horses, or in other words, slaves.

Once the slave desires and fights for freedom from his master, then the master's ethnocentrism will usually turn to hatred, or racism. The master will punish the slave's desire for basic human rights (usually by killing the freed slave); this means that the master is hypocritical and irrational since the slave is a human after all, just like the master.

But of course nobody desires to be a slave in the first place so the very act of slavery is considered racism to the slave, if he sees that most of the other slaves are of the same race as he. Since the master is oblivious to the concept of universal human rights he sees no problem or hatred with the slave, until the slave shatters his naive expectations.

As you can see, determining what is racism is not so cut-and-dry.

I agree. It's not. Everyone seems to find racism everywhere nowadays. It's part of the 'political correctness' which exists to subjugate those whom doesn't agree.

Am I racist? What makes one a racist? I want to play a character with my own skin-color in order to be able to relate to my character. Does that make me a 'racist' just because I prefer to play a character whom shares the color of my skin? If I then tell you that I don't see other people with a darker skin less human, am I still a 'racist'? If I tell you I find racial jokes, as well as sexual, funny, am I 'racist' then? What if I told you that I lost my virginity to a Brazilian 15-year-old when I myself was 15, would I still be a racist? I love my national Swedish identity, my mentality and my thousand-year-old history, does that make me a 'racist'? What if I told you that I'm currently attending a school and have impure thoughts about a certain dark-skinned girl from the Middle East, am I still a 'racist'?

People keep shouting 'racist' and they see racism wherever they go, and this is due to a political correctness that our society and media banks into our heads; shaping our morality and our inability to actually THINK.

THAT, my friends, is HATE. If anybody here actually bothered to look up what 'racism' is, they would know that it's about dividing humanity into a hierarchy of races, just like Schmitler did in the 30s and early 40s.

I urge all of you politically correct animals to think for yourselves and not what everybody else tells you to think. You wont find a racist luring behind every corner, and it's not your job to hunt them down - it's the medias (always end with a joke).

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.01.22 20:30:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Mijano
*rant*


what does any of that "me,me,me" thing has to do with EVE?

Mijano
Minmatar
Sons Of 0din
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.01.22 20:38:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: Mijano
*rant*


what does any of that "me,me,me" thing has to do with EVE?

I could ask the same from people screaming 'racist' to everything they see on these boards, but then I wouldn't have the enjoyment of seeing them crawl back to the shadows from where they came, as such people always do.

Advalary
Posted - 2011.01.22 20:55:00 - [59]
 

A soapbox troll, how cute.

I'll bite. So if this whole thread has been about how you no longer feel you can relate to your character for RP purposes (which is a Matari), then why is the thread titled "Is Amarr-roleplay going to be more racially motivated?"

Also, completely ignoring your self proclaimed infallible Encyclopedia Brittanica knowledge of real world history and political correctness which you so despise yet wave around in peoples faces, I'm going to look to the backstory of the game to answer your question:

Quote:
Always a deeply religious people, religion remains of great importance to every Amarrian, a fervour which at various times has been responsible both for great good and great evil. Shortly after recovering from the closure of EVE, they began to expand their realm at the expense of neighbouring states. The nations they conquered were enslaved, a practice justified by their religion. Ever since, the Amarrians have enslaved every nation and race they have encountered, and today slavery is an essential part of Amarr society. This has, of course, tainted their relations with other races, especially the individualistic Gallenteans.


Source: http://www.eveonline.com/races/amarr.asp

There you have it, as far as the game's backstory is concerned, the Amarrian enslavement of all the many different peoples they enslaved was due to them believing they were their god's chosen people and everyone else was just soulless abominations that existed to serve them, as we stated in a post earlier in the thread.

So, in summary, no: Amarr-roleplaying is going to be more religiously motivated and not racially.

Please leave real world issues out of backstory that is supposed to happen many thousand years in the future in a society completely cut off from said current real world.

Kilo Kodiak
Posted - 2011.01.22 21:48:00 - [60]
 

as of the above
The Minmatar are a race of HUMANs form a plant called Earth. They are from all regions of earth which over time have mixed to make what is the race of today. Please look at my charactor and notice My stock of the old earth of native americans, other are from the stock of african, asian, even have stock from the european as well. We are a mix which is here and what is strong of all. The skills and ability of what in one self which is the true factor and not the warping ok.
but what has latly happen of the oversight of tattoos is wrong. please read the background on the tattoos and well the artist team in the hurry of doing the download failed to have the tattoos.

in the act of hast the action is of this I believe..
n this game I am a minmatar brutor, a Tribal Traditionalist.
As Game play the minmatar are still Tribal which they use means to Idenifly which Tattoos and other markings which is the part of the customs and traditions of which the minmatar are know for. please refer to: http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=20-09-10
To the Minmatar, the tattoo is not simply a form of art, but rather an integral part of their culture and customs.
it is a issue which the minmatar has been without now. Now is the design team are Racist.
During the millennium of enslavement, the Amarr all but eradicated the tattoo culture. Nevertheless, it managed to survive in various different bastardized forms until the Great Rebellion, when the Minmatar finally threw off their shackles. What followed was a long hard struggle for the Minmatar to regain all that was lost to them during the occupation, and within the context of this endeavor the culture of tattoos was given primacy. The Republic of today is enjoying a renewed ascendancy of this ancient art form, with the tattoo once again representing an integral part of Minmatar culture and being. until now with the current design .
Rasism is the belief that the genetic factors which constitute race, ethnicity, or nationality are a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that ethnic differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Racism's effects are called "racial discrimination." In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or receive preferential treatment.

Racial discrimination typically points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people, although anyone may be discriminated against on an ethnic or cultural basis, independently of their somatic differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnicity discrimination.
LACK OF THE TATTOO >>
The Voluval is the sacred coming-of-age ceremony for the Minmatar. It is here that the individual transforms from a child into a fully recognized member of their tribe. At the height of the ceremony the presiding shaman will finalize the ritual by invoking the Voluval mark, where the soul and destiny of a person are said to be revealed through the emergence of a tattoo on the recipient, the secrets of which are closely guarded by the Vherokior mystics who kept it alive during the long centuries of subjugation.

BY THE OVER SIGHT OF THE TATTOO: you allow the Amarr it control and cut of the customs and the way of life for the minmatar people
The Voluval is considered the most sacred mark a Minmatar can carry, and in some rare cases can change his life irrevocably.
asking your designer to add something new but to do the job the company has paid for and not give half promise items to us. this carbon toon great and what I believe should be here like 2 years ago but your team failed it content and what is part of the story line of this game.
Kilo Kodiak
A Minmatar with a lost of identy..



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