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blankseplocked Nerf ECM drones NOW
 
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Frozen Neuron
Posted - 2011.01.21 06:17:00 - [31]
 

what else other than ECM is chanced-based in EVE? This needs to end and be replaced by another system.
it's not just about luck, it's about how far you allow luck to influence the game.

0.0 is swarming more and more with ecm drones and this disrupts the way people used to pvp, especially people soloing and people flying T1 (much more subject to jamming). Nowadays, in a 1v1 BC fight where buffers allow time for jams to land, the one without ecm drones dies. plain and simple.

when everyone uses 1 aspect of a game, I call this "unbalanced". I'm not saying ECM should be removed, there are superb things that could be done with a new ECM system that would not be chanced based, much along the lines of how other EWAR work.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.21 08:21:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Mecinia Lua
There are damp and disrupter drones you know that right?


But not T2 versions.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.21 09:09:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 21/01/2011 09:18:06
Originally by: X Gallentius
.. EC- drones help unbonused ships with large drone bays more (Gallente, Amarr)..

Just so you know, only the Caldari has less dronespace across the classes than the "second drone race" Amarr so that argument is rather flawed .. only the drone carriers which have no/limited damage outside the drones actually have surplus space/BW Very Happy

As I said, it is fine that they can be used as a GTFO ability but as a tank? They are an omni-tool, like the old nos which you fit when you didn't know what you'd meet, breaks dps, RR, tackle .. you name it they do it.
Giving up ~100 fragile, easily removed and delayed DPS is no where near enough of a sacrifice for the utility/power of ecm drones.
Originally by: Rahnim
Maybe just nerf the jamming time? if they did try to ballance them like that :P ...

Problem is that would require a second cycle attribute to be applied to them, because if you merely reduce existing cycle then you also get more chances at jamming.
Originally by: Frozen Neuron
what else other than ECM is chanced-based in EVE?...

Lots of things are chance based, just doesn't come into play until a given module is in fall-off. The "fall-off to hit" system applies to guns, TD's, TP's and Damps .. ECM is the only one thing that is purely chance based though.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.21 10:36:00 - [34]
 

All e-war outside of target painters is tank related since each module is designed to reduce incoming damage.

All ecm is an "omni tool" - they stop everything that requires a lock. Nerf all ecm? (So are remote sensor dampeners as they delay lock or kill lock outside of a given range).

I agree that the benefits of ecm drones outweigh the opportunity cost of drone dps. Maybe damage drones should be buffed instead?

The point, however, is that an ecm drone nerf would push Gallente blaster ships further into irrelevance. Harb would be nerfed as well.




Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.01.21 10:43:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 21/01/2011 10:49:17

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

As I said, it is fine that they can be used as a GTFO ability but as a tank?


yes.

Ships like falcon, scorpion or the rook count on its (very unreliable) ECM tank even more. Here we're talking about dedicated ECM, not drones.
You simply exaggerate declaring ECM drone usage as tank, you should be happy if one cycle hits.

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.01.21 10:47:00 - [36]
 

What if they'd decrease your total locks instead of putting them to 0 outright?

Of course, Falcons and ships with ECM boosts should have a high chance of putting them to 0 as they rely on that sort of warfare, but things like ECM drones could have a chance to decrease 0-1 each, making a full flight drop an average of 3 locks, not nearly enough on it's own to stop you from locking 1-3 ships...

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.01.21 11:40:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
There are damp and disrupter drones you know that right?


But not T2 versions.


Do the ECM drones have t2 versions....I can't remember seeing any but okay that is a point

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.01.21 11:43:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 21/01/2011 10:49:17

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

As I said, it is fine that they can be used as a GTFO ability but as a tank?


yes.

Ships like falcon, scorpion or the rook count on its (very unreliable) ECM tank even more. Here we're talking about dedicated ECM, not drones.
You simply exaggerate declaring ECM drone usage as tank, you should be happy if one cycle hits.


I've long felt the other races need a battleship platform for their EW.

A Gallente Sensor Dampening Battleship operating at long range or an Amarr tracking disruptor battleship doing the same could sway many a battle, as could a Minmatar target painting battleship platform. Why only Caldari got one is a mystery.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.01.21 12:31:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 21/01/2011 12:35:08

my pvp main is amarr, I'm happy amarr doesnt have such an EW-battleship. I know the scorp from my other char (now capital), I know how useless it is mostly, so amarr BS line is pretty fine having a pure damage BS, pure long range BS and a tank/damage tier 3 monstrum. There is no place for a scorp like useless boat =)

btw. I feel this thread is derailing into another "bringing inline" discussion. Caldari has a dedicated EW BS platform because its caldari. We've got 4 different races, dont we?

Vim
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.01.21 14:11:00 - [40]
 

If only there was some module to deal with low hp ecm drones....

Hmm, nope not a single idea. Wonder why I have this medium smartbomb fitted to my solo fits, solo is so dead so I can't remember last time I took one of thoose solo fit ships out...

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.21 14:25:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 21/01/2011 14:25:25
Originally by: Vim
If only there was some module to deal with low hp ecm drones....

Why don't you run the numbers and see what kind of fit you get after adding a highly situational smartbomb as "standard".

Might be an acceptable argument when it comes to BC/BS class but squeezing a bomb onto frigs, dessies and cruisers is a practical impossibility.

Vim
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.01.21 14:32:00 - [42]
 

I will agree on it being difficult on dessies and frigs :-(
but cruiser and bc its very well possible and worth it. Also for me its not situational. I can't remember last time I didnt get ecm drones on me out solo against non 15 day olds in frigates. =)

CarnegieSteel
Posted - 2011.01.21 14:44:00 - [43]
 

The problem IMO, is that ecm (and the drones) is too "feast or famine". Either you get a couple jam cycles off and you win, or you dont and you lose.

Decrease the cycle length, so things are averaged better. Maybe also increase the strength of ECCM slightly.

Mens Desire
Posted - 2011.01.21 17:18:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Magnus Orin
Originally by: Gibbo5771
I jamp into a 5 man gang all packing ecm drones

Perma jammed, 1 flight of drones is ok but if you are a pvper and you take on odds against you, 3-4 flights of them = death.

How about CCP fix the other ****ing ewar drones so that ecm drones arent a guaranteed pwn tactic instant they jam


So you are saying you want to fight 5 on 1 and win?

Get a grip, it was not the fact that you have 5 flights of ecm drones on you, it was that you were fighting 5 on 1.


lrn2pvp, it was the drones that jammed = no med neuts to remove tackler....nothing else was a thrat besides the ceptor whom could catch me.

are you really that ****ing stupid?

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.01.21 17:26:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Mens Desire


lrn2pvp, it was the drones that jammed = no med neuts to remove tackler....nothing else was a thrat besides the ceptor whom could catch me.

are you really that ****ing stupid?


he did well and had some luck of working drones... What are you going to cry about as next? Unfair guns penetrating your armor? Energy neutralizer? Tracking disruptors?

Erika Bronz
Gallente
The Wyld Hunt
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.01.31 23:13:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Originally by: Erika Bronz
ECM drones are not overpowered, they are chance based. Give us T2 on all e-war drones and drone scripts or specialized damp and disruptor drones.


There are damp and disrupter drones you know that right?


Yes, I know that. I also know they have a mixed, not specialized debuff. Just like their module counterpart before scripted.

rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2011.01.31 23:38:00 - [47]
 

I have to agree with the OP's sentiment.

ECM drones have cost me many kills, and lead to quite a few of my own losses...my dislike for them is so great that I, generally speaking, refuse to use them myself.

Also, smartbombs and ECCM on a BC or BS, ok, I can see that happening...what about us that fly mainly cruiser-and-down size ships? I already have to jam a NOS onto almost everything I fly because everyone and their mother is packing a neut or two, does ECCM have to become another standard item? My Rifter fits are going to go to hell Crying or Very sad

Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.02.01 00:46:00 - [48]
 

Heres a little secret: True Sansha Small EM Smartbombs. Good range and damage, and it only takes 3-4 pulses to pop light drones. Considering I fit my curses/pilgrims for fleet support (never solo), I don't need nos's and just rely on a Guardian or whatnot for cap.

I've lost a couple fleet fights from 6-7 drakes just dropping all their ECM drones on logi pilots. Fight would have swung the other way with just 1 smartbomb.


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