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blankseplocked Nerf ECM drones NOW
 
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Frozen Neuron
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:09:00 - [1]
 

When an Ishkur with ECM drones lands 2 jam cycles on a Curse first hand (shall I remind you the sensor strengh of a Curse?), you ought to KNOW something is wrong with ECM and ECM drones in particular.
This needs to be nerfed. Now, please. Too many experienced pilots complain about this unbalancing the game.
Thank you.
FN

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:16:00 - [2]
 

This does not need to be nerfed. ECM was already nerfed what 2 years ago.

Might carry some FOF missiles for your launchers....

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:17:00 - [3]
 

they work now, yes.

Some people want nerfing things until they arent used anymore, I guess thats their understanding of balance.

ECM drones are fine.

IQ 001
Gallente
2plus2isfive
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:18:00 - [4]
 

i had ecm drones out against a rapier (4 points lower sensor strenght) for almmost 2 minutes and they didnt land 1 jam :S

Jamaican Herbsman
I Love You Mary Jane
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:20:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Frozen Neuron
When an Ishkur with ECM drones lands 2 jam cycles on a Curse first hand (shall I remind you the sensor strengh of a Curse?), you ought to KNOW something is wrong with ECM and ECM drones in particular.
This needs to be nerfed. Now, please. Too many experienced pilots complain about this unbalancing the game.
Thank you.
FN


Originally by: IQ 001
i had ecm drones out against a rapier (4 points lower sensor strenght) for almmost 2 minutes and they didnt land 1 jam :S


Don't you guys know that if you use ecm drones they never work, but if they are used against you, prepare to be permajammed

Frozen Neuron
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:21:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Frozen Neuron
Too many experienced pilots complain about this unbalancing the game.


this.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:49:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Frozen Neuron
Originally by: Frozen Neuron
Too many experienced pilots complain about this unbalancing the game.


this.


you suck

Gibbo5771
Posted - 2011.01.20 12:27:00 - [8]
 

I jamp into a 5 man gang all packing ecm drones

Perma jammed, 1 flight of drones is ok but if you are a pvper and you take on odds against you, 3-4 flights of them = death.

How about CCP fix the other ****ing ewar drones so that ecm drones arent a guaranteed pwn tactic instant they jam

Flapkonijn
Diamonds and Guns
Posted - 2011.01.20 12:39:00 - [9]
 

ECM drones are fine... if you come into a gang and your on your own you die anyway the 15 ecm drones being there or not wouldn't help you survive... O_o

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:31:00 - [10]
 

Imo ECM drones should becomes ECM burst like (on a single target). So they do kill the lock, but allow for immediate relocking. So nothing changes about their usefulness of their gtfo ability, but they work less (still quite a bit though) as tank. Right now imo the problem is that it is both awesome for winning the actual fight, AND if you dont win the actual fight you got a good chance of being able to run.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:44:00 - [11]
 

You think a Curse is bad? Wait until you see a carrier get jammed by ec-300 .. its a hoot and a half Very Happy
You can reliably use them instead of a tank on a glass cannon gank boat .. that is beyond broken.

They should keep their cycle time and be reduced to breaking locks only.

SwindonBadger
0utbreak
Outbreak.
Posted - 2011.01.20 14:02:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Flapkonijn
ECM drones are fine... if you come into a gang and your on your own you die anyway the 15 ecm drones being there or not wouldn't help you survive... O_o



nagh, Ive seen plenty of good pilots bring loads of fun to this game, take on much worse then that solo (even an insane old git like me has taken on 120 solo,) the only things that stop fun like that is ecm, when u watch a fight let alone a solo pvper where everyone is using ecm drones its more fun, intresting, watching a veltor fight. It makes the brain dead blob players even worse at the game :( there is so little to inspire good fighting in this game that it has become the norm to think like a ****** aproval junkie

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.20 14:04:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jamaican Herbsman
Don't you guys know that if you use ecm drones they never work, but if they are used against you, prepare to be permajammed


This. So much this.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.20 14:58:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Y
They should keep their cycle time and be reduced to breaking locks only.


Taking them away nerfs Gallente turret boats even more.

Right now ec- drones jam for the entire 20 seconds of the 20 second cycle. Your proposal has them jam for 0 seconds of the cycle. You could potentially have them jam for N seconds of the cycle. Tune N to reach proper balance.

Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.01.20 16:25:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 20/01/2011 16:25:48
When considering how great they are at what they do compared to how great other ewar drones are at what it is that they do, ECM drones are leagues ahead.

OP, I'm willing to wager that your Curse has escaped from many losing fights by pitching out the suicide EC-600s and warping away. I know I certainly have.

When I use ECM drones, they're fair and balanced. When other people use them on me, they are ****ed and stupid.

So if they nerf them to be as useful ECM drones as TP drones are at being TP drones, I think on the whole I would lose more.

I'd rather see the other EWAR drones buffed until they start showing up in drone bays.

AtheistOfFail
AoF Lottery Services
Posted - 2011.01.20 16:47:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Frozen Neuron
When an Ishkur with ECM drones lands 2 jam cycles on a Curse first hand (shall I remind you the sensor strengh of a Curse?), you ought to KNOW something is wrong with ECM and ECM drones in particular.
This needs to be nerfed. Now, please. Too many experienced pilots complain about this unbalancing the game.
Thank you.
FN


This is balanced. If you want to tip the scale to your favor, may i recommend you shoot the drones or use a smartbomb (smalls can kill drones in 5 cycles, mediums in 3, and large in 1).

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:26:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Frozen Neuron
Originally by: Frozen Neuron
Too many experienced pilots complain about this unbalancing the game.


this.


You can't quote yourself and then say "this", jerk. Use an alt next time like the rest of us!

Erika Bronz
Gallente
The Wyld Hunt
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:28:00 - [18]
 

ECM drones are not overpowered, they are chance based. Give us T2 on all e-war drones and drone scripts or specialized damp and disruptor drones.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:39:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Frozen Neuron
When an Ishkur with ECM drones lands 2 jam cycles on a Curse first hand (shall I remind you the sensor strengh of a Curse?), you ought to KNOW something is wrong with ECM and ECM drones in particular.
This needs to be nerfed. Now, please. Too many experienced pilots complain about this unbalancing the game.
Thank you.
FN

You sir are fail, much like your cross eyed avatar. Very Happy

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.20 18:03:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: AtheistOfFail
This is balanced. If you want to tip the scale to your favor, may i recommend you shoot the drones or use a smartbomb (smalls can kill drones in 5 cycles, mediums in 3, and large in 1).

So you regularly fit smartbombs on your drone boats and is somehow capable of targeting while jammed?
Are you sure you are playing Eve and not something else? Very Happy
Originally by: Erika Bronz
ECM drones are not overpowered, they are chance based. Give us T2 on all e-war drones and drone scripts or specialized damp and disruptor drones.

They are powerful and reliable enough that you can let them tank for you all the way up to BC's, if that isn't OP I don't know what is.
The ability to jam for a 20s cycle should not be available in drone form. If people want that kind of power they can bloody well sacrifice a midslot, fitting and cap to do it.

Make them lock-breakers. Still allows them to be a GTFO tool and messes up all the things they need to (logistics/RR, ewar, tackle).

Erika Bronz
Gallente
The Wyld Hunt
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.01.20 18:36:00 - [21]
 

Hirana, build up arguements with examples if you want to state something. Feel free to use EFT. When you say "they", is it 5 Megathrons hurling 25 EC-900's at you or a single EC-300? 25 Ogres would easily chew anything up to BC before you need a tank too. Besides, what are you piloting? 20s cycles is 20s cycles no matter where it comes from, be it ship modules or drones.

Reicine Ceer
Rodents of Unusual Size
Posted - 2011.01.20 18:46:00 - [22]
 

No one has mentioned sensor boosters or ECCM yet.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.20 19:43:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Gibbo5771
I jamp into a 5 man gang all packing ecm drones

Perma jammed, 1 flight of drones is ok but if you are a pvper and you take on odds against you, 3-4 flights of them = death.

How about CCP fix the other ****ing ewar drones so that ecm drones arent a guaranteed pwn tactic instant they jam


So you are saying you want to fight 5 on 1 and win?

Get a grip, it was not the fact that you have 5 flights of ecm drones on you, it was that you were fighting 5 on 1.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.20 20:02:00 - [24]
 

Ok, as experienced pilot and someone carrying 5x small ECM drones (on my alt), I'll say this:

My philosophy on balanced game design in war strategy is that small random factors are good, large random factors are bad.

The ECM drones are borderline here. Their chance to jamm is small, but the effect of successful jamm is very strong. The combination of probability * strength is big enough to be considered a relatively large random factor, tho not excessively large. There's no big cause for concern, tho new ideas for ECM drones can be entertained.

small ECM drones are super easy to kill with smartbombs, it's just that smartbomb are a bit difficult to fit and are useless for everything else, and most ships don't have the extra utility slots.

Curse, however, can afford to fit 1 medium smartbomb, which would insure you always kill enemy small drones. But they may still get 1 initial jamm cycle on you

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.20 20:56:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Erika Bronz
Hirana, build up arguements with examples if you want to state something....

They are omni-present so picking out individual examples is pointless, but if you insist:
#1: Gank Ruptures, Gank Harbingers, Gank Hurricanes, Gank Drakes, Gank XXX.
None of them need to sport any tank other than a suitcase and perhaps a resist mod. A random fight of say 1-2 minutes against an equal size ship, you are guaranteed to get 2+ cycles out of the drones.
#2: Breaking an ECCM'ed guardian pair with a couple of gank fit Harbinger, just one packing ec-300. One cycle equals 30k+ damage, 2 cycles and its goodnight .. was done on a station for the extra laughs Smile
#3: Being jammed by ec-300 in a dual-ECCM anti-ECM Curse after the target Rook missed with its entire rack.

Want more?

They need to be changed or restricted. Either as I have already mentioned or making any given size drone useless against targets other than its "class" (300=frig/dessie, 600=cruisers, 900=BC/BS/Cap).
As they are now you make an negligible sacrifice for an insane amount of power which is just plain bad.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.20 21:51:00 - [26]
 

@ however that said, when ECM drone only breaks locks and allows for immediate retargeting it isnt like it lasts only 0 seconds, you also got to factor in reaction time + locking time

Originally by: Erika Bronz
Hirana, build up arguements with examples if you want to state something. Feel free to use EFT. When you say "they", is it 5 Megathrons hurling 25 EC-900's at you or a single EC-300? 25 Ogres would easily chew anything up to BC before you need a tank too. Besides, what are you piloting? 20s cycles is 20s cycles no matter where it comes from, be it ship modules or drones.

Example: Rupture has self ECM chance of almost 40%. So not only are you effectively reducing the enemy dps by almost 40% (depending on what he is doing drone wise), you also got a very large chance to escape.
Thorax has self ECM of over 40%, harbinger tad under 40%, geddon over 45%, mega bit under 40%, phoon almost 45%, pest over 35%.

Then you got to add again reaction time + locking time, now effectively for all those ships you will be cutting turret/missile dps by about 50%. That is a ****load, but besides that you also get the gtfo ability.


X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.20 22:29:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: X Gallentius on 20/01/2011 22:32:06
Originally by: Furb Killer
Example: Rupture has self ECM chance of almost 40%. So not only are you effectively reducing the enemy dps by almost 40% (depending on what he is doing drone wise), you also got a very large chance to escape.
Thorax has self ECM of over 40%, harbinger tad under 40%, geddon over 45%, mega bit under 40%, phoon almost 45%, pest over 35%.

Then you got to add again reaction time + locking time, now effectively for all those ships you will be cutting turret/missile dps by about 50%. That is a ****load, but besides that you also get the gtfo ability.


Reaction time is zero (you know when the cycle ends), locking time can be mitigated by putting on a scan res sensor booster. You can fit eccm to reduce these probabilities. You can install eccm implants into your head. You lose dps by using ec- drones instead of damage drones.

EC- drones help unbonused ships with large drone bays more (Gallente, Amarr), and hurt Minmatar ships the most (lower sensor strength). Nerf them and the shift to Minmatar/Drake for pvp will be complete. There is no other way for Gallente blaster ships to mitigate the effects of energy neutralizers and all the other close range e-war mods (tds, webs on faster ships, scrams that shut down mwds) that render blasters useless.

Also, there is no other reasonable GTFO ability for blaster ships. You're pretty much committed because your ship is usually slower than the other guy.



Onyc Noziroh
Altless
Posted - 2011.01.20 22:47:00 - [28]
 

ECM drones and ECM share the same curse.

Either they are ineffective and not worth the trouble, or, they are effective and people will eventually end up on the losing side of a "permajam" RNG streak.

ECM is fine since it needs to go on a bonused boat to be effective. ECM drones on the other hand go in anything with a dronebay.

I think ECM drones should have their size increased, so lights take up the same amount of space as mediums etc. That would force a lot of set-ups to pick either DPS or ECM when it comes to their drone loadout.

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.01.21 05:33:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Erika Bronz
ECM drones are not overpowered, they are chance based. Give us T2 on all e-war drones and drone scripts or specialized damp and disruptor drones.


There are damp and disrupter drones you know that right?

Rahnim
Posted - 2011.01.21 06:08:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Rahnim on 21/01/2011 06:08:36
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
You think a Curse is bad? Wait until you see a carrier get jammed by ec-300 .. its a hoot and a half Very Happy
You can reliably use them instead of a tank on a glass cannon gank boat .. that is beyond broken.

They should keep their cycle time and be reduced to breaking locks only.


Maybe just nerf the jamming time? if they did try to ballance them like that :P I wouldnt mind, a way to improve the jamming would be to combo it with sensor dampning with scripts to reduce scan res of target :P


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