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Sonya Mag
Posted - 2011.01.19 12:49:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Sonya Mag on 19/01/2011 12:50:50
I don't know if anyone of CSM is aware, PI has gone some major changes that have having some nasty consequences to anyone that made PI a way of living in Eve.

They fixed the click fest by replacing the old extractor with a ecu, but this is using so much power (plus its heads) that keeping the old production values in a planet or making p3 in one unique planet is now totally impossible. In 0.0 there are reports of 25-30% drops in production every 24 hours cycles. In high sec reports are the other way around. people seam to produce much more, I have reports of 20% more than the old extractors.

People are starting to stress out about this, complete planet production lines are dead... some are rage quitting (read the industrial section of the forums) and there is no statement from CCP about these changes, if they are intentional or not, explanations, comments, nothing. Its absolute silence.

Can someone from CSM contact CCP and obtain more data about what happen and why? What was the motivation for these new power changes? intentional or error? they pretend to do something about it? Please provide us some feedback, the silence/indifference is killing us...

Thanks
Regards

VaMei
Posted - 2011.01.19 13:06:00 - [2]
 

Lower supply of a demand driven resource = much higher prices, and MORE profits, not less.
If your belly ache is that every one has lower output, relax. The profits will come.

If your belly ache is not being able to fuel your POS string single handedly, get over it. EvE is an MMO. Working together toward goals is the name of the game.

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2011.01.19 13:39:00 - [3]
 

Not sure that works has intended, but indeed, power needs of a single extractor are very expensive.

On the other side, yes it will certainly help for prices and make PI become more interesting.

Monkeegirl
Posted - 2011.01.20 19:01:00 - [4]
 

I believe the alteration is an intended consequence.

The old way was that you could have 1 extractor per each resource on a planet and manage that every 30 minutes for an evening, stocking up all required resources and having your T1 and T2 factories producing 100% of the time, then off-shoring the T2 products to a planet with Spare CPU/Power for T3 production.

This new way means that you are limitted to the facilities you can use, and thus must use them wisely. If you want to extract every resource from a planet, at maximum efficiency, you won't be doing much production past T1.
However, by focusing on 2 or 3 resources per planet, you get those 20% or more resources per cycle, while producing T2 products. However, ultimately you you have to transfer goods around to do the higher end production (at least moreso than before).

People simply need to re-learn how to manage the planet production, because you have MUCH more control over your raw income rate now than you did before, which means you can essentially be more efficient with 1 or 2 heads where you needed 4 or so before.

In my experience, I had to drop a couple resource extractors from my planets, but I found the increased rate from the other materials more than made up for it, I simply need an alt or a partner to produce the type of resources I no longer make for myself. Which is fine, because it was way too easy before.

An Alternate method is to put the ECU in between two resources, and move the heads around to get both resources as needed, because its possible to get surplus raw materials now.

Bei XiaoJie
Posted - 2011.01.21 12:18:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Monkeegirl

An Alternate method is to put the ECU in between two resources, and move the heads around to get both resources as needed, because its possible to get surplus raw materials now.


This would be a workable solution if you could mine several different resources at the same time, from the same extractor, with each head mining a different resource. The graphic could would show total units extracted with a heavier line between "layers" of different minerals.

As it is you have to move heads, run program A, wait 24 hours, move the heads around and run program B ... back to the ol' click-fest.

tpwh21
Posted - 2011.01.21 12:52:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: tpwh21 on 21/01/2011 12:52:40
There are also loads of bugs - resource depletion rates are ridiculous- meaning moving and rebuilding colonies every 3-15 days.
Extractors don't route properly.
Nothing substantive in PI has been fixed/added although it is supposed to be high priority.
Could you please give someone a nudge and find out why.
1) They didn't respond to any of the considered feedback on the test server.
2) Haven't responded since the patch.
3) Have not committed to excellence with this release of PI (it is very buggy)

The most annoying thing was lots of people got on the the test server weeks before - and tested it - and just had their comments ignored. The lack of information/feedback is really rude and frustrating.

they were also warned days before of the Mac patch problems and weeks before of the SS2 patch problems on the test server - but just ignored those reports too.

Monkeedude
Posted - 2011.01.21 18:27:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Monkeedude on 21/01/2011 21:30:29
Originally by: Bei XiaoJie
As it is you have to move heads, run program A, wait 24 hours, move the heads around and run program B ... back to the ol' click-fest.


Not really. How often did you interact with it before? Every 96 hours? So you set it up on one resource for 4 days, then you set it up with the other resource for 4 days. It's the same click-fest it was before, however now you have the option of setting it up for weeks on 1 resource, then setting it up for weeks on another, and while that means you won't be producing much for the first week, once you're set up you are golden, and you have wiggle room in case you are late and miss a day.

Honestly, DON'T turn PI into Moon mining, a set up and go and forget about it thing till its time to extract your money. There's hardly any interaction in that at all, and it makes the whole thing boring.

/edit/:

The biggest issue is mostly that the numbers they show you aren't 100% accurate.

tpwh21
Posted - 2011.01.28 21:22:00 - [8]
 

thanks for the swift reply CSM people....

TamiyaCowboy
Caldari
KRAKEN FLEET
Posted - 2011.01.29 14:47:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Monkeedude
Edited by: Monkeedude on 21/01/2011 21:30:29
Originally by: Bei XiaoJie
As it is you have to move heads, run program A, wait 24 hours, move the heads around and run program B ... back to the ol' click-fest.


Not really. How often did you interact with it before? Every 96 hours? So you set it up on one resource for 4 days, then you set it up with the other resource for 4 days. It's the same click-fest it was before, however now you have the option of setting it up for weeks on 1 resource, then setting it up for weeks on another, and while that means you won't be producing much for the first week, once you're set up you are golden, and you have wiggle room in case you are late and miss a day.

Honestly, DON'T turn PI into Moon mining, a set up and go and forget about it thing till its time to extract your money. There's hardly any interaction in that at all, and it makes the whole thing boring.

/edit/:

The biggest issue is mostly that the numbers they show you aren't 100% accurate.


i was every 5hrs

i had 20 extractors and 4 refinerys.
i have now 1 refinery and 10 extractors.

i used to get 10,000 units of refined noble metals in about a week i now get 1000 units. dont tell me this was not a nerf.

TEAM PI stop hiding away and start facing the music. in my eyes PI was stealth nerf'd and now you hide away and will not answer our calls in the forum sections.

WHY did you Nerf PI, what thought went into the nerf and changes, hey do you even play PI for more that 1 hour testing ?

face the music ccp, start talking and stop hiding. explain why my PI has dropped so much, why your ECU's need so much power grid.

just give me back the click fest atleast we knew where we stood

Hallan Turrek
Caldari
The Outlaws.
Split Infinity.
Posted - 2011.01.29 21:54:00 - [10]
 

The way the system works now, it's much easier to make a lot of P3 actually. Gather each resource one at a time, on 24-48 hour cycles, use the same processors each time to make whatever p1 good you need, and once you've built up equal numbers of everything, run some advanced processors.

Brutus B
Posted - 2011.02.08 00:56:00 - [11]
 

Some of my corpmates have been talking about PI being worse now...

But, I disagree. I tried PI before, and quit--the clickfest was too much to even care about how much was being produced. Now, though, I actually have restarted my PI stuff and have expanded.

1) thing to notice on the new system is links are not instant, you have to upgrade links to move not just more m3, but more m3 per hour. The new time interval has made me have to make adjustments in how I manage and upgrade them.

2) I too have had to put less refineries on mining planets, but this just makes the importance of dedicated production planets more critical. People who don't specilize what colonies are doing are going to cause unavoidable bottlenecks resulting in less production.

3) Consider that the new limitations might be somewhat intended to get people to actually lvl5 some of their PI skills to get more advantage. Before the new system I wasn't planning on lvl'5ing any of them, but with the new system I just might.

I personally don't want PI to be mindless, if it's mindless and easy everyone is going to do it and none of the products will be of value. The new system I think is a step in the right direction, and I expect future updates to make PI more engaging and entertaining and profitable. (Accomplishing that doesn't necessarily mandate more production... as the most plentiful resource in eve is veldspar, and mining it is probably the least fun and profitable thing you can do in eve.)

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.08 11:20:00 - [12]
 

I've also had to rejigger my PI networks since the change, and clearly some things are easier and some things are more difficult, but I don't necessarily think this is a bad idea. For the stuff I was doing, I personally like the new PI better.

PI 1.0 front-loaded all the thinking; once you had your colony designed and set up, it was all mindless clicking. PI 1.1 moves some of the thinking into the day-to-day operations, and also makes colony/ECU positioning more challenging (because of depletion, and the ability to extract more than one resource with an ECU).

In one of the Industry threads, there's a mention of the 80/20 rule, and PI 1.1 seems to be a step towards that. It is obviously going to be disruptive to some established ways of doing things.

If you feel that the changes are too disruptive, and need some tweaking, then by all means raise a proposal in AH so it can be debated and possibly addressed by the CSM. A good starting point might be taking the current Planetary Interaction Omnibus Proposal and reworking it to bring it in line with PI 1.1

Shadow Leon
Leon's and Scarlet's Universal Trade Inc
Posted - 2011.02.11 14:34:00 - [13]
 

I love that some people are saying price WILL rise, yet have they been checking the market, Robotics supply is now down... and oh wait the prices have dropped... 58k start of the week 54k in all the hubs but jita now....

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.02.18 20:16:00 - [14]
 

There is no nerf in pi, you just need to pay more attention to detail of how you set up your extractor nodes.
ALSO -
resources deplete
If other people are mining the same node as you, you will get diminished returns
Be sure to watch the returns on your program cycles and adjust the nodes accordingly so the far right side of the programs will have the highest bars for maximum output.

YOU do have to change your pi layout about once a week otherwise you wont get good returns.

Also try doign the 2 planet thing, 1 with just mining and doing tier 1 refines then shipping it to a new planet to do all factory work.


 

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