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T'zuki Hiro
Posted - 2011.01.20 12:54:00 - [241]
 

What's upset people most is the fact that this was sprung on us with no warning.

Plus, yesterday in town I found computers on display and being sold by major national
vendors that only support the basic SSE instruction set, not SSE2, and I had to ask specific questions to find that out.


Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:22:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: T'zuki Hiro
What's upset people most is the fact that this was sprung on us with no warning.

Plus, yesterday in town I found computers on display and being sold by major national
vendors that only support the basic SSE instruction set, not SSE2, and I had to ask specific questions to find that out.


Okay, I can appreciate that. But seriously, why would you want to play EVE on a 10-year-old computer? You don't really need a i7 980X to play EVE, like I have; but even the mid-end quadcore Q6700, which I possesed before that, amply suffices.

And you need a normal graphics card. I have a medium-high end GTX 285, with the latest drivers (266.58, IIRC). See, also the portrait composer won't run with a 10-year old card. People simply need an up-to-date computer (and no, a GTX 285 won't fit in your old AGP slot). So, regardless of SSE2 on your CPU, you simply need a newer computer. There's no way around that.

Having said that, I've always disliked that CCP conformed to the lowest common denominator. I'm glad they finally broke that cycle.

Dreadscout
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:37:00 - [243]
 

Edited by: Dreadscout on 20/01/2011 13:41:04
Originally by: Ranka Mei

If your computer can't even handle SSE2, then you have no business hindering the progress of EVE for others.


i wrote 4 PCS not 1, total i have 5 PC's, one (my main pc) working well with high graphics for my main account.
(and each of these 4 alt-pcs has a ati readion 2600pro whats enough for MY usage, or wanna tell me what i need? all of these 4 pcs had 4gb ram, enough power for the work they are optimized are, just now SSE2 (CPU) makes it horrible, not to change....)

But the 4 other PC's are just for eve and nothing else.
They work until the last Patch Day perfectly for eve on low graphics.
Dont need Highend and expansive things for these PC's "UNTIL NOW"...
Never had Problems with the Client until now.

And the only Reason why CCP requires now SSE2 is to fix another Problem from a "third software" makes them troubles.

Means it's not needed to play eve, until now it wasnt needed, why now? just for character creation? damn hell, ... no ^^

Sry but cant understand why CCP noticed that Problem to late.
Well, i'm buying 2 new and could throw 4 older ones ( worked until now perfectly, but now ccp means they are **** :o) ), the 2 new ones costs me now up to € 850 / 1.000 again.
1.000 € from last Year.... € 2.000 nice...

Well, what ever....,
rest in peace

Solarissa Fey
Posted - 2011.01.20 15:50:00 - [244]
 

May I highlight that my "old" machine that no longer runs eve was previously able to run the game in hd (1900 x 1200) with most visual settings on high with a solid framerate. Just because the processor was a litle long in the tooth doesn't mean the system as a whole is creaky. I have a nice dx10 gfx card.

Unfortunately it's not as simple as upgrading processor - I need new mb as well, which would mean new ram too, and a new gfx card to boot. Not an inexpensive purchase, particularly just to play one game.


Lydia d'Luminaire
Posted - 2011.01.20 16:54:00 - [245]
 

Any news on your plans on this issue, CCP? Why not just tell us?

No point in panic-buying a new computer if the old one will work again in a few days, but you really need to tell us what your plans are. Waiting patiently for a fix if you have no intent of providing one is something that can easily be avoided by a short post here. Please? Why the secrecy?

While I understand it is possible to get game time refunds, I wonder if the GM's will be helpfull with those that have POS'es in space they cannot log in to fuel nor take down?

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:03:00 - [246]
 

"In related news: in a brilliant stroke of genius CCP wiped out thousands of Russian and Chinese macro-miners in one foul swoop, in what our sources tell us was aptly named 'Operation SSE2.' Many Chinese ISK-farming sweatshops, still running computers from Mao's days, had to close, the gnashing of their teeth despite. And there was much rejoicing amongst the honest players!

More at eleven!"

Zerakix
Minmatar
The White Mantle
Posted - 2011.01.20 19:00:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: T'zuki Hiro
What's upset people most is the fact that this was sprung on us with no warning.

Plus, yesterday in town I found computers on display and being sold by major national
vendors that only support the basic SSE instruction set, not SSE2, and I had to ask specific questions to find that out.




What major national retailer is still selling hardware that is 7years old well unless you live in some 3rd world country... I mean Intel released SSE2 with the P4 all the way back in 2001 and AMD supported it with he Athlon 64 in 2003. Eve shouldn't be help back because someone has almost 6year old hardware. On a somewhat unrelated note CCP should announce tomorrow they are dropping DirectX 9/SM3.0 support in 2years so all the whiners will know to upgrade in the next 2years.

T'zuki Hiro
Posted - 2011.01.20 19:25:00 - [248]
 

I, like everyone affected by this, knew we'd have to upgrade for Incarna and walking in stations, and like me, I guess they've been budgeting so as to get a decent up to date machine ready in time, but this landed on us with no warning.

So... next time it could be you caught out by CCP changing the hardware spec required to play Eve without any prior warning.

Haansu Rwen
Posted - 2011.01.20 19:39:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Debrie
Edited by: Debrie on 19/01/2011 23:26:17
C + + update is required for supported AMD (and other older)computers

Copy and paste link in following quote (would think CCP woulda told us this)

Originally by: Bandit Doggy
To the person who found this fix, THANKS! I was one of the ones that EVE would not start. The incursion screen came up for 30 seconds, then nothing. Saw someone post to update your C++. I did it, and EVE runs now. Here is the link for that update:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=200B2FD9-AE1A-4A14-984D-389C36F85647&displaylang=en

AMD 64X2 dual core 3.02ghz, 4gb RAM, 2x GeForce 8600 GT

same thanx very much , without the post about C + + update my eve gametime would have ended


Whoa! I'm not computer savvy! In English, please! Only computer-pros permitted to play EVE? Can we non-Teckies get a refund, now?

BTW: There's no link in the quoted text

Sothryn Omidira
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.20 20:48:00 - [250]
 

Windows only:

Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)

"The Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86) installs runtime components of Visual C++ Libraries required to run applications developed with Visual C++ on a computer that does not have Visual C++ 2005 installed."

Originally by: Haansu Rwen
Originally by: Debrie
Edited by: Debrie on 19/01/2011 23:26:17
C + + update is required for supported AMD (and other older)computers

Copy and paste link in following quote (would think CCP woulda told us this)

Originally by: Bandit Doggy
To the person who found this fix, THANKS! I was one of the ones that EVE would not start. The incursion screen came up for 30 seconds, then nothing. Saw someone post to update your C++. I did it, and EVE runs now. Here is the link for that update:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=200B2FD9-AE1A-4A14-984D-389C36F85647&displaylang=en

AMD 64X2 dual core 3.02ghz, 4gb RAM, 2x GeForce 8600 GT

same thanx very much , without the post about C + + update my eve gametime would have ended


Whoa! I'm not computer savvy! In English, please! Only computer-pros permitted to play EVE? Can we non-Teckies get a refund, now?

BTW: There's no link in the quoted text

Trambalazana
Posted - 2011.01.20 20:57:00 - [251]
 

The problem is that this has been dropped on people without proper warning. See, when you run a business, you cannot make such changes without warning your customers. Per se, if I change a company´s opening hours from 8AM to 13:00 PM without warning to the customers, I´m going to get some flak on my decision.

Think about this. Right now I cannot logon to get my training queue active, but I´m paying everyday for the game.

It´s the same of cutting down the electrical power to your house, with no warning, because you must get a new meter, because yours is too old. Fine, you´ll buy a new one, but you shouldn´t be forced to live in candlelight because someone behind a desk decided it.

CCP should have been clearer abut this measure. I, for one am suspending my eve account.

This is a bad business practice. And it will have a price.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.20 21:43:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Zachstar
They had TWO days TWO days TWO days! You cant do JACK in that time especially something as big as keeping the engine disabled until someone goes into the editor that takes a huge effort due to how physics are implemented into the game these days.
Right, it's not like anyone noticed it on sisi and bugreported when they first made build with character creator. It's just suddenly appeared to them on sunday "hey, it won't run unless you have sse2" Rolling Eyes


Well, hope my stuff will be still intact by the time I'll get myself to buy new PC

BearUkraine
Gallente
Light Style
Posted - 2011.01.20 23:50:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: Trambalazana
The problem is that this has been dropped on people without proper warning.
This warning was not done in a timely manner, because CCP found this trouble just for 1 or 2 days before deployment.

Janith Arakz
Posted - 2011.01.21 00:03:00 - [254]
 

Someone posted in the forums about this problem at the beginning of november!

0PEN Trader
Posted - 2011.01.21 01:40:00 - [255]
 

For all the cynics (especially representatives of the CCP) about 0.3%. From a man who lost his Athlon XP safely due to these curves snouts.
Open Price History in Jita. And look. A very close look.
On most goods turnover
Quote:
decreased by thirty percent
from 18.01.
CCP drew the attention to it? Let's dialogue. Here.
Now, do you have questions, about 0,3% of "sitting on the calculators?
It's all lies.

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2011.01.21 01:49:00 - [256]
 

Can we get a confirmation that is indeed NVIDIA and stupid useless APEX that is to blame?

Is CCP another company taking bribes (in form of marketing budget money) from Nvidia for implementing exclusive questionable technologies designed to fight Nvidia's competitors and narrow consumer choices?

It usually works like this - company X develops a game, game runs great on ATI and NVIDIA. Nvidia contacts company X, pays them for "advertising" in form on Nvidia logo when the game starts. All of a sudden game from company X stops supporting DX 10.1 and works slower on ATI.

Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2011.01.21 03:36:00 - [257]
 

Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 21/01/2011 03:43:01
Originally by: 0PEN Trader

Open Price History in Jita. And look. A very close look.
On most goods turnover
Quote:
decreased by thirty percent
from 18.01.
CCP drew the attention to it?


Yes, the graphs are showing something, a volume drop...but what is behind it ?

Are Jita trader alts using older computers ?? Maybe. Maybe people are just waiting till this patch runs less bumpy.

n30na
Posted - 2011.01.21 05:33:00 - [258]
 

I do hope that if they're going to require sse2, that they at least make an effort to build all possible binaries with sse2 optimizations, might as well get a little performance boost out of it :P

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2011.01.21 08:29:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: n30na
I do hope that if they're going to require sse2, that they at least make an effort to build all possible binaries with sse2 optimizations, might as well get a little performance boost out of it :P



Yes, because compiler level optimization will help with single threaded INTERPRETED CODE full of o(n2) monsters

0PEN Trader
Posted - 2011.01.21 09:46:00 - [260]
 

Let's ask the CCP:
How many petitions you receive from players with Athlon XP/P3?
300? (100000 * 0.3%)
Will be the answer?

I say to that "CCP has conducted a study of the market and found that legacy platforms used only 0,3% of the population." Loop through stupid options.
a) If Jita turnover decreased by 30% - this means that people can not trite to enter the game to buy / sell - or do they strike?
b) If 0.3% is roughly 30% of "population" of trade in the Forge region - that the most conservative estimations at least 10-20% of the players of Eve "sit on calculators" have played and do not bother.

That is 0.3% of the declared CCP - a trite crap. Trying to reassure those who had Athlon or P4 - they say you have here a unit - and because you will not bother anybody (well, think of it, stuffed new library - what for now the old stick?).
Go and buy yourself a new MB + CPU + memory + VideoCard + Power Supply + new HDD (IDE is a rarity) + DVD (same reason) + reinstall all the software and OS running on your computer. Well, the mouse - keyboard - case - and monitor of the old companies can leave the same.

And there are many of us, as shown by a trivial market analysis Eve.

Oops?

PS: Dumb question. If a person with computer all is well, and it normally starts Eve - what for, he climbs into the topic - for those who have a problem with the game - and Troll - like I'm cool peppers - and all of you f..ng sh...t - Because you have an outdated platform, and you still do not bother? It seems to me that all those who have engaged in here too ... or not ... Oh well. I think it clever to understand me...

Let's ask the CCP:
How many petitions you receive from players with Athlon XP/P3?
300? (100000 * 0.3%)
Will be the answer?

Lifekiller
Posted - 2011.01.21 12:33:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: Lifekiller on 21/01/2011 12:37:25
at least there are more then 0,3% involved, external Statics means something over 10-15%.
Sample is just my Alliance, arround 40% having this Problems now and are "offline".

Arround our Regions its quieter then ever, nobody Online, the most perm. Offline...
Normal it's different bec. they wanna hold their Systems.

Over 5 of my Buddys having the same Problems...
Now count it up to EVE and all others...
(just buddys and people we know having this problem are up to 73!)

I'm noticing a big change since SSE2 and CCP kicking all these Computers out.
Many many ALT-Computers are may no unusable and means that many Alts are Offline.


What ever, like us, over 8 Alt-Chars are currently unused and perm. Offline.
And arround 4-5 Main Chars....


Good done CPP, and only for this little new gimmick....

CatiaVanessa
Posted - 2011.01.21 13:02:00 - [262]
 

Any news on this problem?? Has anyone got any reply to any petitions regarding this?

Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2011.01.21 13:48:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: 0PEN Trader
Let's ask the CCP:
How many petitions you receive from players with Athlon XP/P3?

Also people who are affected can start a poll (CSM), so the community can get some verifiable numbers.



0PEN Trader
Posted - 2011.01.21 13:53:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: CatiaVanessa
Any news on this problem?? Has anyone got any reply to any petitions regarding this?


Yepp. Standart answer. Look.
Hi.

I´m afraid that it will not be possible to run EVE any longer with CPUs that do not support SSE2, this will cause players still using Intel Pentium 3 or older and AMD Athlon XP or older CPUs to not be able to run the EVE Online client. Athlon 64 CPUs are however not affected

I'm afraid the only thing we can do for you at the moment is to make sure that you don't lose any subscription time you have paid for because of this. You can choose if you want to be refunded for the time you lose or if you decide to upgrade your system, you can have that time added to your account when you are ready to continue.

We sincerely apologize that we were not able to give our players a more advanced notice on this.

Best regards,
Senior GM Retrofire
EVE Online Customer Support

Stonos
Posted - 2011.01.21 14:00:00 - [265]
 

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650
pushed up 80% load during the character creation... something wrong there right? its graphical yet my cpu has to do all the work? points at his "NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2" so whats the point of having this? lol im am disappointed.... yea it worked for me but had a buddy who couldnt run it.... he says he has E1200 somebody confirm it has SSE2? websites from google not clear on this...

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2011.01.21 18:10:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: T'zuki Hiro
What's upset people most is the fact that this was sprung on us with no warning.

Plus, yesterday in town I found computers on display and being sold by major national
vendors that only support the basic SSE instruction set, not SSE2, and I had to ask specific questions to find that out.




Where is this? Frankly I wouldn't trust the average sales drone to be able to answer this question correctly, and most modern processors do in fact support SSE2. The AMD Geode processor which is used in some Netbooks is only example I can think of and those netbooks also lack proper graphics cards.


Kheldaris
Posted - 2011.01.21 20:08:00 - [267]
 

As part of the .03% I can honestly say this shocked me. Not that the hardware requirements were upgraded...but that the Devs KNEW it was going to happen and just didn t tell anyone. I have never in my life had an MMO I am paying for just STOP working out of the blue with no intent to fix the problem. My account was JUST renewed the day of the patch and now I can t play. AND I am a fairly new player trying to catch up in skills, so this REALLY screws me. Thanks a lot for the warning on this guys.

Trambalazana
Posted - 2011.01.22 01:06:00 - [268]
 

I just read this as "I don´t need users with old computers" and "I don´t really care what happens to them".

So, as CCP makes the most money with people with SSE2 computers, and neglect PLAYERS with older systems why bother giving them my money?

At least a warning or a optional patch...

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.22 09:50:00 - [269]
 

Edited by: Ranka Mei on 22/01/2011 09:50:12

Dear CCP,

I applaud your direction of no longer catering to the lowest common denominator. Please, ignore the moaning of folks with 10 year old computers: they've been holding the development of the game back for too long as it is; and I am glad all y'all finally came to your senses and decided to go with the times.

The character creation is a veritable work of art. That there's a handful of people with archaic computers who can't play the game any more as a result, I frankly don't care about them at all. I know, that sounds callous, or otherwise uncaring. But if only they were willing and/or able to see how unreasonable they are, they would not so bitterly complain. It's simply time for those folks to update their gear -- whether they like to hear that or not. You make no crazy demands on hardware at all: only that people can't use their grandfather's computer any more. So be it.

I hope you will continue on your path to graphical excellence. With Incarana around the corner, I can only imagine (and hope) that you will present the same level of graphical beauty. And maybe stations can get a graphical overhaul too? And perhaps we can see missiles fire from actual launchers (instead of just appearing out of thin air). Anyway, I'm glad you took this brave, but nonetheless necessary step to keep up with the level of design seen in other games. It will, for certain, ensure your bright future. And the SSE2 folks, they're a remnant of the past, and they should stay there.

0PEN Trader
Posted - 2011.01.22 10:32:00 - [270]
 

Girl, you seem wrong with the channel. Praise about the buggy editor dug write elsewhere.
Go and Come and play with dolls with the editor on your new computer, which bought you daddy and mommy, and do not bother us to deal with CCP. Very Happy


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