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Taraas Enko
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:57:00 - [121]
 

Goodbye EVE, goodbye CCP. The old player can't make computer updating. -5 game account, good luck!

Beauregard Jackson
Minmatar
GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM
Army of Dark Shadows
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:59:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Beauregard Jackson on 17/01/2011 20:10:28
Edit...nvm Very Happy

Rin Ji
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:05:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Sire Magnus
..snipped a lot..
OK... Not that I don't feel sorry for those affected, I won't even say anything like third millennium or the likes,...

...but you did the thing I was thinking of when I first read this short notice, only in reverse. You calculated your ISK loss (C'mon, it's a game, and so forth...) into RL currency loss. I'll now do the reverse: if you had not payed your accounts in ISK (PLEX) you'd have spent far more in $ (or , or whatever) than what'd be needed to upgrade now.
What if PLEX had never existed? I'd speculate we wouldn't even have this discussion right now.

(And yes, I do feel sorry for all affected, yes, the short termed notice is extremely hard on both parties involved, yes, I do know that a "recent" spec is not always needed, yes, I agree that it was one of the BIG pluses for EvE to run on almost any machine including TI pocket calculators, but still... equalling ISK loss to (financial) RL loss is just plain selfish. More even, but CoC doesn't permit saying.)

Vaneshi SnowCrash
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:08:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Ormus Vinge
Edited by: Ormus Vinge on 17/01/2011 19:47:00
Rolling Eyes


The Problem here is NOT the update of Hardware needed.

I MEAN TWO DAYS?

In my case, Amd XP3200 runs fine for all I need to do. EVE is the only game I play, so I also don't need the latest updates in hardware. Even the CAD software I use, runs FINE on my system. AMD XP3200, 2 gig ram, directX10 graphics, 1 TB HD. So the old part is the board and CPU, which forces me to buy completely new Hardware.

Since I don't want to take the Risk getting a used system which maybe outdated by a next Patch CCP announces, I'm forced to buy a decent system for about 500 Euro which will maybe delivered in the next 5-10 days.
And ofc money seems to grow on trees in Iceland.

NICE JOB CCP, WELL DONE!

@ wise guys: Pls stop arrogant postings about people who don't have the latest Hardware for any reason. Not necessary, we got ****ed already.

yours sincerly

me


p.s. I've calculated that 0.3% of all CCP employees are ... nvm


I've no idea if such a thing is in the wild but their might exist an SSE wrapper you can use to launch EVE. It'll be dog slow if it does exist but...

You don't sound like you need a whole new box, just a mobo bundle from the local equivalent of Novatech. So hopefully a lot less than 500.

Beauregard Jackson
Minmatar
GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM
Army of Dark Shadows
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:11:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Taraas Enko
Goodbye EVE, goodbye CCP. The old player can't make computer updating. -5 game account, good luck!


Yer sterf, I can haz it? Smile

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:13:00 - [126]
 

Upgrade or die! Adapt or die! Dont realy see a differnceugh

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:24:00 - [127]
 

Honestly, if someone is still playing EVE on a 7+ year old PC...

That's like complaining that Duke3D doesn't run on your ZX Spectrum.

hired goon
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:26:00 - [128]
 

The problem here is that an upgrade for those affected can't be just a CPU, it has to be a whole platform because of the change in slot. Then the old RAM won't carry over. And let's face it, Pentium III or Athlon motherboards won't have PCI-E slots.

So that's an entire new system. Now you have to think, will your old 300w Enermax PSU be able to push your new i3 CPU plus Nvidia GTX 450?

So CCP have basically said "sorry but if you are in this category you will have to replace your CPU, Motherboard, RAM, Graphics card, and PSU"

Not that I'm complaining with my brand new Phenom II 965 Cool

Quick spec for those worried finds an AMD Athlon II 2.2ghz CPU, 4gb RAM, an AM3 motherboard, and an ATI Radeon 5750 gpu, all for just under 200. That will run Eve nicely. Remember you can carry over all your hard drives, optical drives, case, and of course screen keyboard and mouse Smile

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:43:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Reiisha
Honestly, if someone is still playing EVE on a 7+ year old PC...

That's like complaining that Duke3D doesn't run on your ZX Spectrum.


Forgive my inner geek but, it's more like complaining that a ZX spectrum released in 1982 couldn't play the latest and greatest 3d games from the late 80 - games like Carrier Command, Starglider 2.

Oh wait both of those were in fact ported to the Spectrum.

How about Doom - oh no that was ported to the spectrum as well....

CCP in no way intended for these CPU's to be deprecated, but I'd like them to be open and either and give us a clue as to whether a client fix will be possible, if we can hold on a couple of weeks or, if this is an issue which will not be fixable.

Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.17 21:01:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 17/01/2011 21:07:15
Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
Originally by: Reiisha
Honestly, if someone is still playing EVE on a 7+ year old PC...

That's like complaining that Duke3D doesn't run on your ZX Spectrum.


Forgive my inner geek but, it's more like complaining that a ZX spectrum released in 1982 couldn't play the latest and greatest 3d games from the late 80 - games like Carrier Command, Starglider 2.

Oh wait both of those were in fact ported to the Spectrum.

How about Doom - oh no that was ported to the spectrum as well....

CCP in no way intended for these CPU's to be deprecated, but I'd like them to be open and either and give us a clue as to whether a client fix will be possible, if we can hold on a couple of weeks or, if this is an issue which will not be fixable.
They could just give us a client version with the old avatars for now and give us time to upgrade like they did with the Shader Model upgrade. Everyone was satisfied with that as they had plenty of time to make other arrangements for the old PCs that ran their alts/cynos/rorqal/extra dread. This, however, I for one would happily forgo Incursions 1.1.0 and hair that blows in the wind coming off the station air-conditioning to be able to continue to run my accounts till I can replace the PC later in the year.

If there was an option to switch off the new avatars, most people I know would do so. Am I correct that CCP would rather drive us to reduce the number of accounts we pay for than allow us to switch off what is currently unnecessary graphics. I promise I'll upgrade before the game has content that justifies them .. honest!

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2011.01.17 21:17:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Night Epoch
I have no doubt the affected players will vehemently and boisterously voice their furious anger in this thread as soon as their carrier pigeons can deliver their posts.

Edit: that is if their computers are able to launch Netscape 1.2, then subsequently load eveonline.com, register their mouse click on the news item, and load said web page before windows 3.1 encounters another catastrophic DLL error.



I don't think I should be offended in such a way just because i'm not obsessed with upgrading my PC every time new hardware hit the market.

Ormus Vinge
Posted - 2011.01.17 21:17:00 - [132]
 

... Not to mention having to set up a new Operating System, which takes hours until everything is in place.

I would be happy having a solution for this, because the money I spent for a product that doesn't work from one day to the other is wasted.
SP, ISK, you name it.


0oO0oOoOo0o
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:07:00 - [133]
 

Hi, I'm not good with computers. I usually buy one and use it, until it breaks. Then I buy the next one etc. My current computer is quite a few years old, it is still working fine, I hope I don't have to buy a new one now ?

In dxdiag it says:
Processor: AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3500+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.0GHz
Memory: 3008MB RAM
Display Devices - Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT

Will this be enough to play EVE on low resolution ? I only need to be able to log in and change skills. Will probably by a new PC next year anyways when SWTOR comes out, in case it doesn't be run on this PC. Hope EVE is still availabe after tomorrow ..

Karia Sur
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:10:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Hi, I'm not good with computers. I usually buy one and use it, until it breaks. Then I buy the next one etc. My current computer is quite a few years old, it is still working fine, I hope I don't have to buy a new one now ?

In dxdiag it says:
Processor: AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3500+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.0GHz
Memory: 3008MB RAM
Display Devices - Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT

Will this be enough to play EVE on low resolution ? I only need to be able to log in and change skills. Will probably by a new PC next year anyways when SWTOR comes out, in case it doesn't be run on this PC. Hope EVE is still availabe after tomorrow ..


CPUs supporting SSE2
AMD K8-based CPUs (Athlon 64, Sempron 64, Turion 64, etc)
AMD Phenom CPUs
Intel NetBurst-based CPUs (Pentium 4, Xeon, Celeron, Celeron D, etc)
Intel Pentium M and Celeron M
Intel Core family (including Intel Core 2, Intel Core i5, Intel Core i7)
Intel Atom
Transmeta Efficeon
VIA C7
VIA Nano

Bhattran
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:13:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Callic Veratar
So, reading the full reaction here, what the players want is a game that will play on any system without noticeable lag, no matter the number of players in a system, that also looks good. If I were in your position, I'd consider myself lucky that I got 2 days notice that my computer still runs EVE until tomorrow.

There comes a point in time where supporting someone who won't upgrade isn't really worth it any more. Yes, you pay them $11-15/account/month, but the cost of supporting non-SSE2 systems will likely require several employees (who likely make $25-50/hour) to commit several weeks of effort.

In some things I would not side with CCP, but this one, definitely. Your subscription costs more than a "new" computer would.


No. Try again people aren't asking that EVE run on any system with all the graphics/sound/etc turned way up for a prime rig while fighting in a over packed reinforced system they are asking that the game that ran fine for them on Monday run fine on Tuesday when a software patch is added. Not a new game, not a new graphics engine a bit of code patching the game that forces certain perfectly fine systems from being able to run the game one day later.

I doubt the cost for support is the issue since CCP apparently didn't even know they were using software options to weed out certain systems. There is a case for that but this doesn't seem to be one of them and is much more about CCP not even knowing what they are doing when they change things. The other issue is hardware that worked no longer working due to the method something was coded.

Unless you constantly buy the latest games a PC can serve you well for many more than 2-3 years. How often do you need the latest version of MS office, or IE, there came a point many years ago when upgrading for many people simply doesn't make any sense. Only new and more intense programs make real use or need updated hardware, this is most true in Games and design software(graphics/engineering) as well as OS that are no longer supported, the latter being an excellent time to move on to something besides a MS product.

Commissar Kate
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:14:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Hi, I'm not good with computers. I usually buy one and use it, until it breaks. Then I buy the next one etc. My current computer is quite a few years old, it is still working fine, I hope I don't have to buy a new one now ?

In dxdiag it says:
Processor: AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3500+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.0GHz
Memory: 3008MB RAM
Display Devices - Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT

Will this be enough to play EVE on low resolution ? I only need to be able to log in and change skills. Will probably by a new PC next year anyways when SWTOR comes out, in case it doesn't be run on this PC. Hope EVE is still availabe after tomorrow ..



You should be fine http://www.techpowerup.com/cpudb/556/AMD_Sempron_3500+.html


0oO0oOoOo0o
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:14:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: 0oO0oOoOo0o on 17/01/2011 22:14:46
Cool, thanks !

Mithril Ryder
Genstar Inc
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:36:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Bhattran
Originally by: Callic Veratar
So, reading the full reaction here, what the players want is a game that will play on any system without noticeable lag, no matter the number of players in a system, that also looks good. If I were in your position, I'd consider myself lucky that I got 2 days notice that my computer still runs EVE until tomorrow.

There comes a point in time where supporting someone who won't upgrade isn't really worth it any more. Yes, you pay them $11-15/account/month, but the cost of supporting non-SSE2 systems will likely require several employees (who likely make $25-50/hour) to commit several weeks of effort.

In some things I would not side with CCP, but this one, definitely. Your subscription costs more than a "new" computer would.


No. Try again people aren't asking that EVE run on any system with all the graphics/sound/etc turned way up for a prime rig while fighting in a over packed reinforced system they are asking that the game that ran fine for them on Monday run fine on Tuesday when a software patch is added. Not a new game, not a new graphics engine a bit of code patching the game that forces certain perfectly fine systems from being able to run the game one day later.

I doubt the cost for support is the issue since CCP apparently didn't even know they were using software options to weed out certain systems. There is a case for that but this doesn't seem to be one of them and is much more about CCP not even knowing what they are doing when they change things. The other issue is hardware that worked no longer working due to the method something was coded.

Unless you constantly buy the latest games a PC can serve you well for many more than 2-3 years. How often do you need the latest version of MS office, or IE, there came a point many years ago when upgrading for many people simply doesn't make any sense. Only new and more intense programs make real use or need updated hardware, this is most true in Games and design software(graphics/engineering) as well as OS that are no longer supported, the latter being an excellent time to move on to something besides a MS product.



This isn't a case of 2-3 years, SSE2 was introduced TEN years ago (2001), and AMD finally implemented it about 2 years later (or eight years ago). Most computers literally stop working within a time period of the 6(to be overly generous)-10 years old the computers of the whiners are, due to failed capacitors, multiple surges/spikes/blackouts and abuse/neglect. Sorry but you got your moneys worth. You can replace motherboard, cpu (dual core i3), 4 gigs of memory (ddr3), moderate graphics card (GTS250 or ATI equiv) and a stable quality PSU for about 400 bucks. That system would last 3+ years and allow for easy CPU, memory and graphics upgrades. If you want to go cheaper with a Core2 duo (save 50-100 bucks about), you can but you might have more of an issue upgrading the cpu/ram later *shrug*.

Cpu speed (as in how much the cpu can "do", not clock speed) doubles about every 18 months, so a 7+ year old cpu is about 1/32nd the speed of modern cpus. I don't think a p3 could even run flash in real time. If you are really strapped for cash you can likely find someone junking a P4 box that will take your AGP graphics card and DDR ram.

You might find you enjoy certain "recent" tech developments such as USB2.0, SATA, decent built-in sound and ethernet and PCIE. You will find that you had no idea just how *slow* your machine was at doing everything, and how much of your life it was wasting.

Deakin Frost
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:48:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Deakin Frost on 17/01/2011 22:52:57
Hope you took the opportunity to enable SSE2 code generation on the C/C++ parts of the game, to enable faster code and SSE2 intrinsics.

--edit: Posting from my Core i7-2600 supporting SSE4.2 and AVX. Booyah.

Vallek Arkonnis
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:51:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Shintai
Good to see CCP move forward. Both in terms of SM3 and now SSE2. It gives greater playing experience. And if you got such an old PC...its really time to upgrade.

Nothing worse than stuck in legacy times penalizing everyone.


This.

I support how CCP keeps eve a modern game despite its age unlike other mmo companies who release a game and it stays as is for eternity. I also understand that you have to have a variety of supported hardware as well.

But c'mon guys, I have an athlon xp 3200, the last CPU produced without SSE2. It came out in May of 2003 so these processors are at least 8 years old... I have upgraded machines twice since then and I'm by no means rich.

Vallek Arkonnis
Posted - 2011.01.17 23:10:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri

I don't think I should be offended in such a way just because i'm not obsessed with upgrading my PC every time new hardware hit the market.


It's not about obsession over having bleeding-edge hardware, it's about having hardware that's less than 8 years old.

Maintaining support for these relics costs time and money better spent on bugs and content. If you can't play modern games because you haven't upgraded in the past decade whose fault is that?

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2011.01.17 23:27:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Vallek Arkonnis

It's not about obsession over having bleeding-edge hardware, it's about having hardware that's less than 8 years old.



Processors without SSE2 support were still being made in mainstream systems until 2005, so it's not 8 years.

2005 was also the year that the Xbox360 launched, are you suggesting that it's also obsolete?

Chicken W1ng
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
ShadowWolves.net
Posted - 2011.01.17 23:53:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Chicken W1ng on 17/01/2011 23:53:40
CCP not caring about minorities?
LOL, old news.
As if they would be caring about low sec players for example, LOL.

Starchain
Posted - 2011.01.18 00:06:00 - [144]
 

I have AMD Athlon XP 3000+. Minus ten accounts, CCP.

Jaggins
Ixion Defence Systems
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.18 00:51:00 - [145]
 

It will be impossible to hack my Apple IIe to run EVE now. Minus 42 accounts, CCP!

T'zuki Hiro
Posted - 2011.01.18 00:52:00 - [146]
 

It's not that us users of older boxes will have to upgrade to continue playing it's that CCP gave so little warning.

btw, anyone using an AMD chip can download amd-cpu-setup.exe from AMD's site. That'll tell them everything about their cpu.

Zachstar
Posted - 2011.01.18 01:12:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Starchain
I have AMD Athlon XP 3000+. Minus ten accounts, CCP.


LoL Are we going to see someone claim 15 and then 30 accounts running on ancient hardware next? Go upgrade already.

I guess I ought to have expected the BS being posted from those thinking they can run a modern game on an badly outdated CPU. No CCP does NOT owe you a refund they MAY (In my opinion) be nice enough to offer those affected free game time at a later date (If you are lucky) but cash refund? LOL how about instead of wasting your time on that going out and earning through work the funds needed to get an upgrade?

And in case you had not noticed CCP got BLINDSIDED by the change. The code change was recent and out of their control. (Tho in my opinion they ought to have made use of SSE2 years ago because of the benefits) Stop acting like CCP is trying to screw you over.

Zachstar
Posted - 2011.01.18 01:15:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
Originally by: Vallek Arkonnis

It's not about obsession over having bleeding-edge hardware, it's about having hardware that's less than 8 years old.



Processors without SSE2 support were still being made in mainstream systems until 2005, so it's not 8 years.

2005 was also the year that the Xbox360 launched, are you suggesting that it's also obsolete?


Yes quite obsolete. It is only still in production because they have been able to reduce the nm size and combine cores to reduce manufacturing costs by a great deal.

Just upgrade and stop complaining. Get a job!

DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.01.18 01:19:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Mithril Ryder


[snip]

Cpu speed (as in how much the cpu can "do", not clock speed) doubles about every 18 months, so a 7+ year old cpu is about 1/32nd the speed of modern cpus. I don't think a p3 could even run flash in real time. If you are really strapped for cash you can likely find someone junking a P4 box that will take your AGP graphics card and DDR ram.

You might find you enjoy certain "recent" tech developments such as USB2.0, SATA, decent built-in sound and ethernet and PCIE. You will find that you had no idea just how *slow* your machine was at doing everything, and how much of your life it was wasting.


This.

Also, I'm still not seeing any arguments about opportunity costs for upgrading vs. staying.
Where are the MD elites?

Cyxopyc
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2011.01.18 01:46:00 - [150]
 

What makes EVE a great online game has little to do with higher quality graphics. I love the low system requirements for this game. I believe any system requirement increases in the last few years have been for eye candy. This one is probably needed to support the new character rendering which will be interesting to me for 10 minutes and no more.

There are 1000 things in the game mechanics and the game client that need fixed or improved before making the game prettier. (like the jump bug that makes your friendly blue fleet members appear as neutrals, oops)

BTW good work on the client lately. It's a lot better since before the necessary 'align to' button was finally added. However there's still a long away to go.


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