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Bragii
Gallente
Trumpets and Bookmarks
Posted - 2011.01.17 11:37:00 - [61]
 

Sure not unreasonable for SSE2 to be a minimum requirement.

However what would be good to hear in a dev blog is that additional QA procedures have been introduced to ensure that another similar unexpected dependency (e.g. SSE3, SSSE3, etc) does not surface at very short notice prior to a release.


Karia Sur
Posted - 2011.01.17 11:38:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
It's time for some people to spend a few bucks to get a new CPU from eBay (if they can't afford the 200-300$ required for a supercomputer - compared to what they have)


IMO the issue is not that some people will need to upgrade their systems in order to continually play Eve as thats expected. What is the issue is that this is mentioned 48hrs prior to the expansion. CCP saying this has just come to light is absolute BS imo.

Remulon McNab
The Galactic Collective
Sovereign Technologies
Posted - 2011.01.17 11:40:00 - [63]
 

shameless quote from wikipedia to list all affected CPU's

Quote:
The following CPUs implemented IA-32 after SSE2 was developed, but did not implement SSE2:

* AMD CPUs prior to Athlon 64, including all Socket A-based CPUs
* Intel CPUs prior to Pentium 4
* VIA C3
* Transmeta Crusoe


Philip Richardson
Depthstrike Industries
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
Posted - 2011.01.17 11:42:00 - [64]
 

CrystalCPUID will tell you if your cpu supports SSE2 on the main screen.

Nice and straightforward if you need the info.

Zenst
Hall Of Flame
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2011.01.17 11:45:00 - [65]
 

given the late hour in the day and the box sets that didn't mention SSE2 being a requirement I can see those few being a tadge upset.

"
Minimum PC System Requirements
PC Processor TypeIntel« Pentium« processor, AMD processorPC Processor Speed1.5GHz
PC Operating SystemWindows XP Service Pack 2, Windows Vista, Windows 7
PC System Memory1GB RAM
PC Hard Drive Space6GB
PC Video64MB GeForce FX 5, Ati 9500, X300 series or higher video card
PC Sound CardDirectX 9.0c-compatible sound card
PC Drive Type and SpeedDVD-ROM 2xPC Modem56.6 Kbps
PC Additional RequirementsRequires 1.5GB RAM for Windows Vista
"

Also when you learn that this is due to some libary that is used having the SSE2 option flag enabled during compile and you do have to ask the following questions:

Why cant we have a version with all the latest SSE4 etc options compiled and available and more so why cant ccp compile that single libary using lower compiler option and make that available to those effected.


This don't effect me though I still do have a P3 system and a AthlonXP and both are capable of running eve currently - yes old AGP GFX cards are old but still well upto spec as it stands. Remember not everybody wants to run 2 clients at once.

But good spot, albiet one that should of been caught as you realy should have a system that is min spec inhouse and be testing on it and if needs be raise said min spec with notice. I feel sorry for those this effects and hope CCP can at the very least go the 3rd party lib is this and we are working on compiling it without SSE2 support and making available for those that need it.


What is funny is that no MAC owners were effected by this change :)

Janeiros
Gallente
Genstar Inc
Posted - 2011.01.17 11:52:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Originally by: Dungee Alstot
Welp. I guess it's a good thing I was thinking about taking a break from Eve anyway. Though being able to run it on an older processor was one of the reasons I started playing it. Ah well :-\


Dude. Upgrade.


I'm starting a new $ campaign: "Help Jan Jan the Rio Man upgrade his PC".

Any $ (rl isk) you have to spare, just deposit on my bank account:
Bank: Ita˙ (Brazil)
Agency: 6136
Account n║: 12204-8

Thanks! \o/

Hormus
Posted - 2011.01.17 11:52:00 - [67]
 

...' some of our Singularity testers reported the issue '...
...' We estimate that around 0.3% of the playerbase will be affected '...

If it affects only 0.3% of players, how comes it affected 'some' testers (which, by my opinion, would be dedicated players and so have better hardware)?

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.01.17 11:56:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Hormus
...' some of our Singularity testers reported the issue '...
...' We estimate that around 0.3% of the playerbase will be affected '...

If it affects only 0.3% of players, how comes it affected 'some' testers (which, by my opinion, would be dedicated players and so have better hardware)?


tools do not make an expert.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.01.17 12:15:00 - [69]
 

Good to see CCP move forward. Both in terms of SM3 and now SSE2. It gives greater playing experience. And if you got such an old PC...its really time to upgrade.

Nothing worse than stuck in legacy times penalizing everyone.

Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.17 12:26:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Karia Sur
CCP saying this has just come to light is absolute BS imo


Yeah I agree, CCP knew about that SSE2 issue for weeks or even months, but they decided to keep it seekrit just so they could drop a "lol pwned" dev blog 48 hours before patch, just |i]for teh lulz[/i].

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.01.17 12:38:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Hormus
...' some of our Singularity testers reported the issue '...
...' We estimate that around 0.3% of the playerbase will be affected '...

If it affects only 0.3% of players, how comes it affected 'some' testers (which, by my opinion, would be dedicated players and so have better hardware)?

Testers are supposed to represent the entire user base, and thus need to test with various hardware, including older systems.

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.01.17 12:40:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
"lol pwned" dev blog 48 hours before patch, just for teh lulz.

It's the Eve way. YARRRR!!

Abramul
Gallente
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.01.17 13:04:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Abramul on 17/01/2011 13:04:29
Question: is a 64-bit AMD processor running a 32-bit operating system affected?

(For the record, a 1.8 GHz processor with 2GB of RAM is quite capable of running EVE, although a bit borderline for running two clients in-space. With 1 GB of RAM, it runs into problems with 1 client if there's more than 200MB or so of background load)

+Edit: Is the warning message live on the test server?

Karia Sur
Posted - 2011.01.17 13:15:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Yeah, to make it clear then the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs will not be affected. It's only the Athlon XP's and older that will be deprecated.



Talaan Stardrifter
Universal Exports
Posted - 2011.01.17 13:30:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: Hormus
...' some of our Singularity testers reported the issue '...
...' We estimate that around 0.3% of the playerbase will be affected '...

If it affects only 0.3% of players, how comes it affected 'some' testers (which, by my opinion, would be dedicated players and so have better hardware)?


tools do not make an expert.

Although some experts may be tools Laughing

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.01.17 13:35:00 - [76]
 

Quote:

Good to see CCP move forward. Both in terms of SM3 and now SSE2. It gives greater playing experience. And if you got such an old PC...its really time to upgrade.



This does not give greater playing experience at all.
In a decent application, these features get auto-detected on startup and enabled OR, in the case of a computer lacking of them, software simulated.

Therefore those who already had a SSE2 capable computer will not see anything better, the others will have to thrash a computer perfectly functional for a mining or trading alt.

While all my computers run Win 7 64 or latest Debian, I can empathize with those who are cut out just because someone forgot to compile with SSE option enabled.

robat
Posted - 2011.01.17 13:54:00 - [77]
 

Anyone wishing to check their CPU I suggest they download CPUID from http://www.cpuid.com/.
This will give details of their CPU and tells what versions of SSE instructions it can execute.
Very Happy

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.01.17 14:35:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Shintai on 17/01/2011 14:36:40
Originally by: Abramul
Edited by: Abramul on 17/01/2011 13:04:29
Question: is a 64-bit AMD processor running a 32-bit operating system affected?

(For the record, a 1.8 GHz processor with 2GB of RAM is quite capable of running EVE, although a bit borderline for running two clients in-space. With 1 GB of RAM, it runs into problems with 1 client if there's more than 200MB or so of background load)

+Edit: Is the warning message live on the test server?


Since its a 64bit capable CPU as well. It supports SSE2. Since x64 requires SSE2 as replacement for x87.

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Good to see CCP move forward. Both in terms of SM3 and now SSE2. It gives greater playing experience. And if you got such an old PC...its really time to upgrade.



This does not give greater playing experience at all.
In a decent application, these features get auto-detected on startup and enabled OR, in the case of a computer lacking of them, software simulated.

Therefore those who already had a SSE2 capable computer will not see anything better, the others will have to thrash a computer perfectly functional for a mining or trading alt.

While all my computers run Win 7 64 or latest Debian, I can empathize with those who are cut out just because someone forgot to compile with SSE option enabled.


Its not that easy as such. Because the game will still hog on down to the lowest bar. Had it been a more independent app/game. Then sure I would agree with you.

Bhattran
Posted - 2011.01.17 14:48:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Shintai
Good to see CCP move forward. Both in terms of SM3 and now SSE2. It gives greater playing experience. And if you got such an old PC...its really time to upgrade.

Nothing worse than stuck in legacy times penalizing everyone.


What might be worse is software development that drives people to ditch perfectly adequate hardware to spur sales of new hardware/software. If it works why do you need to trash it and get something new? The answer is we 'need' new software and won't support the old or decide to make use of technologies not present in the old, regardless if they are truly needed/useful. Hardware and software go hand in hand trying to get consumers spend money on new products all the while we toss out 'old' technology like it is worthless. Every year computer hardware is sent to the trash hopefully for recyclers to make money off of when disposed of properly and sent to a landfill when it isn't.


Anane
Brother Theo's Monastery
The Ancients.
Posted - 2011.01.17 14:49:00 - [80]
 

Dell OptiPlex GX620 $150 US just upgrade the ram and the HDD and if you really feel courageous add a GPU... all in all I bought one from work that was only $75 and it still runs fine today with under another $100 in it...

BrownMage
Posted - 2011.01.17 15:13:00 - [81]
 

Ridiculous. I pay for 4 accounts cash USD every month for 4+ years now, and they announce this the day before the update.

I'm usually all about CCP, defending the balancing and what not to alliance and corp mates... no longer. I got screwed on the Linux support drop and had to BUY windows to play... i got banged on the SM3 update wich wasn't completely necessary and had to go out and buy 2 new video cards. (decompile old clients yourself and figure it out) Maybe i'm just raging a bit right now but...

seriously wth? I know it's a compley game and all.. the overhead of opening a market stops your whole client...that could have been something better to fix... or easily allow ping display...

perfect time too. All the x-mass money comes to players, they spend cash for GTC's (gtc price drops) and buy toys (carriers, t2 and faction sub caps all skyrocket) then they say "oh sorry some of you wont be able to play tommorow.

the emo rage is high right now.

Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2011.01.17 15:26:00 - [82]
 

Talk about the 11th hour.

Not good.

Bahamir
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.17 15:36:00 - [83]
 

If there are a spec of having SSE2 to run EVE, maybe you can start using it into Trinity and Destiny engines to improve performance.

BrownMage
Posted - 2011.01.17 15:39:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: BrownMage on 17/01/2011 15:43:08
How many CCP-Eve Devs does it take to totaly hose a massive %% of the player base?

None, they dont have EVE devs, they are all working on "Walking in stations" and "Dust514"

4 years of development, still no walking in stations.
2 years on dust development... still 3 years till 05/14 (may 15, 2014)

Well at least they are not warning that the PC will continuously reboot after update.

Oh forgot about "eve gate" the 'mail site' that has horrible interfacing, responding to mail lists is impossible, oh and don't cut/paste. That thing should not have gotten threw beta testing either.

/end emo rage


Callic Veratar
Posted - 2011.01.17 15:49:00 - [85]
 

So, reading the full reaction here, what the players want is a game that will play on any system without noticeable lag, no matter the number of players in a system, that also looks good. If I were in your position, I'd consider myself lucky that I got 2 days notice that my computer still runs EVE until tomorrow.

There comes a point in time where supporting someone who won't upgrade isn't really worth it any more. Yes, you pay them $11-15/account/month, but the cost of supporting non-SSE2 systems will likely require several employees (who likely make $25-50/hour) to commit several weeks of effort.

In some things I would not side with CCP, but this one, definitely. Your subscription costs more than a "new" computer would.

Bahamir
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.17 15:55:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Callic Veratar

There comes a point in time where supporting someone who won't upgrade isn't really worth it any more. Yes, you pay them $11-15/account/month, but the cost of supporting non-SSE2 systems will likely require several employees (who likely make $25-50/hour) to commit several weeks of effort.



Following your ideas we should still playing 8 bit games so they are still compatible with 8086 processors.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.17 15:59:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: BrownMage
Oh forgot about "eve gate" the 'mail site' that has horrible interfacing, responding to mail lists is impossible, oh and don't cut/paste. That thing should not have gotten threw beta testing either.
FYI, it didn't: it still had "beta" tag last I looked Rolling Eyes

On a subject: not that I didn't know about this "feature" earlier, but I'm not going buy new PC sooner just because of some eve patch (at least I was going to do it anyway). And there better be some compensation for inability to play (with no prior warning - with shaders you at least did it few months before) Evil or Very Mad

Artenac
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:04:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
more than 2 months ago. what we got here is a failure to communicate.


Face melting PWNAGE. YARRRR!!

Crazy Renegade
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:14:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Crazy Renegade on 17/01/2011 16:27:45
.......................................

Crazy Renegade
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:19:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Originally by: Dungee Alstot
Welp. I guess it's a good thing I was thinking about taking a break from Eve anyway. Though being able to run it on an older processor was one of the reasons I started playing it. Ah well :-\


Can I have your stuff? Twisted Evil


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