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Pure Tabasco
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:33:00 - [181]
 

Never used one. I support them going away!

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:33:00 - [182]
 

Edited by: Marlona Sky on 17/01/2011 22:40:29
Originally by: Venkul Mul
And who will mine the minerals for your ships?In your nice dream universe have you ever thought about the little problem that you will have to spend time protecting the miners after the ease of transportation from empire has been removed?


I have no problem defending miners. If invaders come, then it will be PvP time, what I wanted to begin with.

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Or you think you will be only the guy that will have the fun to kill the miners, never the one that will have hours of guard duty defending them?


Or I could just pay more for my stuff because I can't be bothered to do guard duty. It all really comes down to supply and demand. If I have the mentality of not wanting to spend time going the grocery store to buy my own food, prep the food and cook it, in order to actually eat. Well then I will be paying more to eat out and order delivery. I get more time on my hands but at a cost. Right now, using the current situation in 0.0, eating out and ordering delivery is vastly cheaper than going to the grocery store to do it all yourself.

That is completely backwards and unbalanced don't you think?

Originally by: Niccolo Paganini
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Suggestions Below This Line
8=D



Removing jump bridges will favour corps with more mature logistical capability.


Why you shrink my line bro? Sad Also, so you have any suggestions to put under the flaccid line?

Pirokobo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:37:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
And who will mine the minerals for your ships?


Skynet.

Reality is, no matter how much CCP tries, the menial grind work will be dominated by bots. It's just going to happen. As long as it happens there will always be materials in 4-4 to build me a new ship.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:44:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: Niccolo Paganini
Removing jump bridges will favour corps with more mature logistical capability.

They don't exist, why would they when you can bridge stuff around? People have all but forgotten the old ways, the way of freighter escort ops.

The blob entities will have an "easier" time insofar as they can roll really heavy when escorting, but casualties will be high for both old and young Very Happy

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:59:00 - [185]
 

Fine, I'll go first...

- Change the POS refiner so it is possible to get 100% yield just like when refining ice at the POS.

- Introduce something like chemistry/alchemy/weird science **** so that it is possible to combine certain ores and some chemical reaction would yield some other ore not native to your area, but with a heavy loss.
i.e. - I did a reaction that combined 10 different high end ores and produced 1 other high end ore.

- Increase mining barge survivability with more EHP so they can last a while for defenders to engage the attackers.

- Introduce the ability to hack POS Silo's to nibble a bit from what is inside. Possible from a covert ops ship with the hacker module or something. Amount nibbled is dependent on average traffic in system per day. The more traffic, the less nibbled. If it is an AFK tech moon that no one bothers to come in system except to empty it every couple weeks and the traffic is all but non-existent, then the amount nibbled would be lucrative. Any total amount nibbled throughout the day should be no more than 10% of what it mined. Hacker can only hack a specific silo once per day, subject to it failing based on skills. If hack fails, then you are decloaked and it is probably time to GTFO!

Time Funnel
Posted - 2011.01.17 23:11:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Time Funnel on 17/01/2011 23:17:00
Edited by: Time Funnel on 17/01/2011 23:13:23
Am I being trolled?

EVE is a boring as hell game to play because of travel and logistics. Taking out jump bridges or limiting capital ship ranges would just make it worse.

Don't shoot yourself in the foot CCP.

While we are at it why don't we take a vote on removing Freighters and Jump Freighters from the game. That should go even further in making the game unplayable.

Edit: Where the hell is the downvote button?

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.18 00:04:00 - [187]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 18/01/2011 00:04:15
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote:
And who will mine the minerals for your ships?
Most of the minerals come from high sec empire. Half from botters, half from countless level 3/4 mission runners who refine their loot.

Most 0.0 alliances just buy minerals in empire and bridge them to their little outposts, why bother mining in 0.0?

How are you going to bridge without bridges? You can't remove bridges and then argue that people can just bridge their stuff in.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.18 00:23:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
How are you going to bridge without bridges? You can't remove bridges and then argue that people can just bridge their stuff in.

Jump freighters will be unaffected. And then there are titan bridges.

I was once roaming Delve and seen how BoB titan was bridging 8 freighters. Dunno what they were hauling.

Anyway, it'd be silly to argue that logistics would remain easy. No, the main idea behind removing jump bridges is to make logistics harder - more dangerous. So alliance people only develop and maintain systems they really care about. So people actually use star gates in 0.0 and risk PvP. You may worry about your alliance becoming more vulnerable, but don't forget that your enemies will have exact same problems.

Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
Posted - 2011.01.18 00:52:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Pirokobo
Originally by: Venkul Mul
And who will mine the minerals for your ships?


Skynet.

Reality is, no matter how much CCP tries, the menial grind work will be dominated by bots. It's just going to happen. As long as it happens there will always be materials in 4-4 to build me a new ship.


I agree. Frankly, I'm half way to suggesting that CCP produce an 'in-game' bot creation program, and use it as a legal way for players to bot (ie the same general idea behind isk selling and plexes. CCP gets extra cash, and players can 'buy' isk.) That way CCP can add restrictions to bots (like limiting how many rigs a botted ship can use).

Cassus Temon
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.18 01:49:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Cassus Temon on 18/01/2011 02:14:40
Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 18/01/2011 00:04:15
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote:
And who will mine the minerals for your ships?
Most of the minerals come from high sec empire. Half from botters, half from countless level 3/4 mission runners who refine their loot.

Most 0.0 alliances just buy minerals in empire and bridge them to their little outposts, why bother mining in 0.0?

How are you going to bridge without bridges? You can't remove bridges and then argue that people can just bridge their stuff in.



Never mind bridging.. Where do you think you're going to get those high-end minerals; without someone doing a little mining in 0.0? I realize some of you may do all your shopping in Jita 4-4; but someone, has to do the mining in 0.0. It doesn't get there otherwise. Morphite? Megacyte? Zydrine? Does all this stuff just come from refined modules? ..or maybe, it's entirely supplied by Wormhole-based Corporations these days? You do realize, the only thing you can get in high sec; is the cheap stuff, in great quantity. Everything else, has to come from 0.0, or lowsec; and lowsec, isn't that profitable, practical, or even capable of supplying half of it.

I had someone reply with similar logic to one of my earlier posts; and, though I thought about it, I didn't say anything at the time. The truth is, you just don't find Arkonor, Bistot, Crokite, or the like, anywhere else; save those good Grav spawns in wormholes. Trust me, those are generally quite rare; so, it's coming out of Nullsec, without question. What wormholers supply in Jita 4-4, and other local markets; isn't nearly enough to cover the half of it.

Back to bridging..

Don't get rid of it! Just change it, modify it, nerf it! It's too powerful as it is; that's been well and truly established. CCP thinks so, CSM--for whatever reason--thinks so; and many of the player base here thinks so. This belief is evidently so strong; that many of us believe they should get rid of it entirely. I don't. Jump Bridging add's an interesting element to the game; as do many similar means of travel, currently in place. With the removal of these devices, effects, and abilities; EVE takes a step backward, and ceases it's forward momentum. They are a valid, and fully defineable technology; they just perhap's, work a little better than they should.

Analyze the situation, and effect the Jump Bridges have on the game; and work out a reasonable solution, to make them less effective.

What you all should be doing, is deciding what you would like to see changed about jump bridging; not arguing, debating, and sidetracking around the issue, while trying to convince others why they should go, or stay.

Limiting systems with highly developed infrastructures from there use; as previously mentioned, is not what should be happening. There's an error in logic there. Rather, those systems, as developed as they are; should be the ones able to construct and use Jump Bridges. These are going to be Core systems, correct? What place more effective, and effectively capable; to place a Jump Bridge in, while allowing you to move from core systems, to the edges of your empire? This is how it should be. What is there, to say that you should be able to jump beyond your borders? And, if you have smaller infrastructures out beyond even them; claiming space, outside of your own effective territory, in no man's land; why should you be able to jump to them? They are colonies, of a sort; seperated, and far from protected borders..

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.18 01:59:00 - [191]
 

Basically, there are 2 important goals that need to be achieved to make EVE a better war game:

1) make logistics operations vulnerable to raids. As it is now, it's too safe, almost impossible to disrupt any alliance logistics, short of mega blob camping 23/7.
Ability to hit enemy logistics would add new dimension to strategic and tactical aspects of EVE warfare

2) sub-capital ships should be more vulnerable to raids in 0.0, that is done by forcing more people to use stargate travel instead of highly protected jump bridges. Stargates have always been the main catalyst of casual PvP. Both camping and roaming relies heavily on stargate dynamics.

Both of these goals promote PvP on smaller scale, while slightly discouraging mega blob pvp and lazy carebearism. I believe these goals are worth pursuing even if it means that certain percentage of EVE players will leave 0.0
Most will stay and adapt, just like they did during first years of EVE.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.18 02:45:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 18/01/2011 02:46:35
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Bagehi
How are you going to bridge without bridges? You can't remove bridges and then argue that people can just bridge their stuff in.

Jump freighters will be unaffected. And then there are titan bridges.

I was once roaming Delve and seen how BoB titan was bridging 8 freighters. Dunno what they were hauling.

Anyway, it'd be silly to argue that logistics would remain easy. No, the main idea behind removing jump bridges is to make logistics harder - more dangerous. So alliance people only develop and maintain systems they really care about. So people actually use star gates in 0.0 and risk PvP. You may worry about your alliance becoming more vulnerable, but don't forget that your enemies will have exact same problems.


Honestly, I'm more worried about not getting any PVP without flying a gazillion jumps to find it. I also do not want to have to babysit miners/haulers for the majority of the time I'm on.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.01.18 03:53:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 18/01/2011 03:55:43
Originally by: Cassus Temon

Never mind bridging.. Where do you think you're going to get those high-end minerals; without someone doing a little mining in 0.0?


Nobody has to mine highmins. The drone regions made mining unprofitable. Just import the stuff, they're not bulky and can be brought in with a few blockade runners easily.

Acquiring the bulky minerals is the bottleneck. Nobody is going to mine veld in 0.0, because it is not competitive compared to just shipping built ships and mods from empire.

Originally by: Bagehi


Honestly, I'm more worried about not getting any PVP without flying a gazillion jumps to find it. I also do not want to have to babysit miners/haulers for the majority of the time I'm on.


There was plenty of pvp without bridge networks. Much more gate traffic leads to more roamings leads to more home defence gangs. A bigger eve will in the long run return to more smaller alliances holding space. This however will take a long time to develop.

All in all there needs to be a complete rethink of 0.0 from an industrial and empire building standpoint to support autonomous self sustained operations.

Cassus Temon
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.18 04:03:00 - [194]
 

Why not take my initial idea, a little further; by adding in the requirement of Jump Bridge Relays. These relay's, would be required to be placed at gates along the Jump Bridge route; and would require fueling, while being susceptiblee to attack. They would be designed in a similar fashion to small POS'; and require Isotopes as their primary fuel source, with the addition of jump assisting fuel requirements. They could of course, only be placed in the alliances Sovereign territory; and along a pre-existing stargate route. A simple means to make a voyage along a known route, faster; while limiting their use, to sovereign space, within alliance controlled territory.

Further, they would be limited to Infrastructure level 2 or higher systems; due to anchoring limitations, and consume fuel with every use. They might even be made more capable, in a small fashion; by allowing jumps to be made, short of the final destination. For example, a series of jump relays exists in 10 systems; leading out of the central core of alliance controlled territory. A pilot intends to travel along this route; but only intends on making the jump to five systems out. There is a small POS there, which he maintains and uses for Moon Harvesting Arrays; and he needs to check the cycles, while making a trip out to highsec. Engaging his jump drive, he sets it for the desired system, along route; and makes the jump from the Jump Bridge, at the controlling POS. Some thrity seconds later, he is in system; and on his way, from the gate there, to his POS. The arrival location, would of course be at the Jump relay; in the system he set as his destination.

Fuel used in relaying the Jump Bridge, would be based on mass of vessels using the bridge; and would of course, be limited in overall mass, to an amount determined by it's upgrade level. Available use of Jump Bridges would also have to be based on corporation roles; similar to Starbase Configuration and fueling roles, used for POS'. All corporations within an alliance; would have the ability to designate this role. A Jump Relay station; would be able to hold an amount of fuel for relaying; equivalent to 3x maximum mass, of the highest upgrade of jump bridge available. This would prevent more than three maximum mass Jump Bridges along a given route; and only then, providing all Jump Relays, had the required fuel to do so. Any shortage of fuel, would either drop ships along the route; or cause the collapse of the Jump Bridge, once any individual jump relay, exceeded it's fuel requirements.

Jump Relays, to add some flavour, would also flash with each jump initiated; at every point along the route, with a pulsating frequency indicating the mass of the jump. A single small ship through, would cause no more than a single, faint pulse; while a dozen ships of BC size or smaller, would expand to a series of brighter pulses, intermixed with fainter ones. Essentially, this would allow others to see when a Jump Bridge is in use, and passing through the system they are in; while the destination system, would--additionally--have a single strobing light, indicating it as the final point along the Jump Route.

Obviously, it's likely to be easier; to collapse a Jump Bridge, than drop ships on route. I would also think a timer, between jumps would be a definite moderator; in that it would prevent blob jumping. The greater the mass of the last ship; the longer the timer between it, and the next jump. Doing this would allow for reduced server lag resulting from use of Jump Bridges; and increase the requirement for fleet planning. It's good on both sides; and stops the blob, at least initially.

Time Funnel
Posted - 2011.01.18 04:58:00 - [195]
 

How many of you fanboi supporters have actually run 0.0 logistics? Take yourself out into 0.0 and run logistics for an alliance for a couple months. Then I will listen to your opinions. Otherwise you have literally no idea what you are talking about. And re-not-smart-ed

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
Posted - 2011.01.18 05:26:00 - [196]
 

Jump bridges should really only go from system to system instead of leap-frogging them. That way you keep the number of jumps while giving another entrance for an alliance, so they can avoid using the stargates.

ShadowFire15
Posted - 2011.01.18 05:35:00 - [197]
 

No to removing jump bridges. Plenty of people have detailed why jb's should NOT be removed. That's good enough for me. So thumbs down from me.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.18 05:44:00 - [198]
 

This might just be the most horrible idea CCP and the CSM have come up with as a group.

You want to deploy to the front? Just stage a moving op that takes a week or so and an entire coalition can have its caps, subcaps and supercaps moved to a lowsec/NPC nullsec staging system within short range of their targets. Get one of your POS's/sov structures attacked? Just rally a fleet for the timer. Yah, it may take half an hour for some folks to make the trip down (ZOMG, the coalitions are now shattered!)

CCP provided an environment where people could choose to cooperate or fight as they saw fit, and many have chosen to form regional cooperation pacts so that they can be fairly safe at home, and can go roadtrip if they want to attack people somewhere else.

So in response to people using game mechanics functioning as intended, to do things 100% allowed within a sandbox political/military environment, the response seems to be "No, you are sandboxing wrong!"

Jump bridges aren't a problem. "Force projection" isn't even really a problem either. Human nature and the fact that people will cooperate to achieve mutual goals seems to be the 'problem'. If CCP wants a game where power blocs won't form and imbalance things, they need to set up sharded servers with instanced objectives and fixed-man raids. But short of WoWing, EVE will remain EVE. There were coalitions and "blobs" before JB's and supercaps, there will be coalitions and "blobs" after, too.

Illyria1
Posted - 2011.01.18 05:51:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Illyria1 on 18/01/2011 05:55:42
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
Never used one. I support them going away!


Who let this guy in?

Why does everyone want to make things harder? From what I can make of it, certain people don't like groups of players getting places fast. I say so what. Just because your enemy can catch up to you by using jb's isn't a reason why you should remove them. Plus you got to think of the times it takes to get people in fleets and form up to attack you. And I'm sure if you were the ones about to attack the enemy, you wouldnt hesitate to use a jb yourself.

Plus jb's are NOT risk free. Lots of people get killed on those things. Jumping through and not knowing exactly what's in the next system is totally risky. Sure there are intel channels where you could probably find out what the system is like but that doesn't mean that all the intel is correct or not. I've had to jump blindly into a system using a jb myself on more than one occasion. So jb's are not riskfree. They can be just like stargates and people really have no problem camping them as well as regular stargates.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.18 12:23:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Bagehi
How are you going to bridge without bridges? You can't remove bridges and then argue that people can just bridge their stuff in.

Jump freighters will be unaffected. And then there are titan bridges.


[facepalm] Read Greyscale comments and the CSM minutes. it is not "only JB will be nerfed". It they go this route every jump capable ships will be nerfed, included the titan bridges and maybe even the freighters.

Originally by: Ephemeron

I was once roaming Delve and seen how BoB titan was bridging 8 freighters. Dunno what they were hauling.


NPC products across regions. Old story. It was nerfed years ago.

Originally by: Ephemeron

Anyway, it'd be silly to argue that logistics would remain easy. No, the main idea behind removing jump bridges is to make logistics harder - more dangerous.


So you are silly.

Jacob cirth
Posted - 2011.01.18 17:04:00 - [201]
 

The concept that the CSM would actually go along with removing JBs is disturbing to say the least. I would not be surprised to see, and would encourage a "No Confidence" proposal relatively soon.

lwxsky oli
Minmatar
FACTS on EVE
Posted - 2011.01.18 18:26:00 - [202]
 

Edited by: lwxsky oli on 18/01/2011 18:27:02
I'd like to keep jump bridges.

If they're removed, it will increase small scale ganking fleet in 0.0 and reduce large scale fleet fights.

Then question is, what's the point still staying in 0.0 and have pew pew fun ??

Just stay in high sec do war dec or faction warfare, which you already have.

If you're telling me 0.0 is where make ppl rich so you'll fight hard for it, I'll tell you that's half true and half BS. Most moon income goes directly into alliance leaders' wallet, I can make more in high sec than in 0.0 by myself.

I would say only people like this idea are the ones never really pvped in 0.0 or some rich alliance leaders want more small pvp fun without giving up their moon income.

Maaxeru
Posted - 2011.01.18 19:17:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: lwxsky oli
I would say only people like this idea are the ones never really pvped in 0.0 or some rich alliance leaders want more small pvp fun without giving up their moon income.


QFT

0.0 without JBs is very much like highsec without Concord.

That is, highsec without Concord that is much more spread out with many fewer stations / POSs to hide in when things look bad.

Make that highsec without Concord that is much more spread out with many fewer stations / POSs to hide in when things look bad with NPC rats that (rarely) do attempt to warpscram the solo freighter (yes - a really bad idea, but it happens).

VERY bad idea.

Please leave the discussion of JBs to those that use them and we will leave the discussions about faction warfare / level 4 missions to those that live in highsec.

Thank you!

Gallians
Posted - 2011.01.18 19:29:00 - [204]
 

I think getting rid of jump bridges is a great step in the direction this game should go: tactical and strategical. Right now there is no risk with logistics, this should change. Alliances have a lot of room they don't use, this should change.

Balancing the bridges via cost did not work as they are everywhere now, and there is no reasonable way to keep them. Super highways that take you all the way from one end of the game to the other in minutes with no risk and or effort should be gone.

IF the argument to keep them is logistics then make it so that only advances freighters can jump. But this is no argument for every ship in the game being able to do it.

At this time, 0.0 is easier, more comfortable, safer, and more profitable than High Sec. This should change. I do not think it was the intent of CCP that every system would be part of a bridge network linking everywhere with everywhere.

I find it hilarious to see that the people defending bridges mention THE NON EXISTING SMALL ALLIANCES which don't exist because moving a thousand ships is trivial. This should not be so. Moving your ships should be a commitment and open avenues for attack. Attrition and blockades should be possible. There should be tactics and strategy involved in 0.0.

At the end of the day if you want to blue everyone so be it, but it shouldn't be CCP's interest to coddle the existing 0.0 power blocks or to ensure their existence. Fleet warfare existed before bridges and will exist after.

Seriously what happened to HTFU, 0.0 is by far the softest area in EVE at the moment.

What happened with "EVE shouldn't be easy" and "GBTWOW"?

Bridges must go.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.18 19:41:00 - [205]
 

Quote:
0.0 without JBs is very much like highsec without Concord.

That is, highsec without Concord that is much more spread out with many fewer stations / POSs to hide in when things look bad.

Make that highsec without Concord that is much more spread out with many fewer stations / POSs to hide in when things look bad with NPC rats that (rarely) do attempt to warpscram the solo freighter (yes - a really bad idea, but it happens).

VERY bad idea.
People who haven't played EVE before jump bridges were introduces cannot be taken seriously on their "predictions" of what would happen.

We already know exactly what would happen. Most of the devs will remember it personally. It was no doomsday scenario. The game was growing quickly, 0.0 was populated. There was plenty of traffic. We know for a fact that EVE will do just fine.

What it comes do is this:
some people want EVE to be more carebear friendly - even in 0.0
others want EVE to be more hardcore PvP - especially in 0.0

It just so happens that I like hardcore PvP. And I can understand the carebear perspective, I don't mind it so much if you openly say that is what you want. I just can't stand the hypocrites who push carebear ideals while arguing that not doing so is "bad for PvP"

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.18 20:00:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
People who haven't played EVE before jump bridges were introduces cannot be taken seriously on their "predictions" of what would happen.

We already know exactly what would happen. Most of the devs will remember it personally. It was no doomsday scenario. The game was growing quickly, 0.0 was populated. There was plenty of traffic. We know for a fact that EVE will do just fine.

What it comes do is this:
some people want EVE to be more carebear friendly - even in 0.0
others want EVE to be more hardcore PvP - especially in 0.0

It just so happens that I like hardcore PvP. And I can understand the carebear perspective, I don't mind it so much if you openly say that is what you want. I just can't stand the hypocrites who push carebear ideals while arguing that not doing so is "bad for PvP"


Players that use what was working/not working when there was an average of 20.000 players on line as a meter of paragon for what will work with an average of 50.000+ players on line "cannot be taken seriously on their "predictions" of what would happen".

It cur both way Ephe.

EVE has changed, the capability to compress stuff has been nerfed, the request for minerals have been increased, mineral heavy rats drops have been removed (barrign drones), drones regions have been added, and so on and so on at infinitum.

You are like a guy saying "in 1950 we were capable of living with a car every 8 persons, so we can do it even today". Not without changing so much things that we will be living in a "future" of 1950, not of 2011.

Past in the days it was possible to get compression rates of over 250:1 and was possible to put 3 dreadnought guns on a frigate and move it to 0.0.

You call JB an easy way to do logistic? How much stuff was possible to move with one of those frigates? How much with a carrier full of those?

You simply recall a time when you were younger and the game was simpler as a golden age that never existed.

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.18 20:34:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Ephemeron
People who haven't played EVE before jump bridges were introduces cannot be taken seriously on their "predictions" of what would happen.

We already know exactly what would happen. Most of the devs will remember it personally. It was no doomsday scenario. The game was growing quickly, 0.0 was populated. There was plenty of traffic. We know for a fact that EVE will do just fine.

What it comes do is this:
some people want EVE to be more carebear friendly - even in 0.0
others want EVE to be more hardcore PvP - especially in 0.0

It just so happens that I like hardcore PvP. And I can understand the carebear perspective, I don't mind it so much if you openly say that is what you want. I just can't stand the hypocrites who push carebear ideals while arguing that not doing so is "bad for PvP"


Players that use what was working/not working when there was an average of 20.000 players on line as a meter of paragon for what will work with an average of 50.000+ players on line "cannot be taken seriously on their "predictions" of what would happen".

It cur both way Ephe.

EVE has changed, the capability to compress stuff has been nerfed, the request for minerals have been increased, mineral heavy rats drops have been removed (barrign drones), drones regions have been added, and so on and so on at infinitum.

You are like a guy saying "in 1950 we were capable of living with a car every 8 persons, so we can do it even today". Not without changing so much things that we will be living in a "future" of 1950, not of 2011.

Past in the days it was possible to get compression rates of over 250:1 and was possible to put 3 dreadnought guns on a frigate and move it to 0.0.

You call JB an easy way to do logistic? How much stuff was possible to move with one of those frigates? How much with a carrier full of those?

You simply recall a time when you were younger and the game was simpler as a golden age that never existed.



No there was no golden age it was fun same 0.0 with escort ops.
I don't get how lazy people got you got carriers you got jump freighters titan bridges undetectable covert ops black ops transport and t3 choices. And you still whine.

I would keep cyno beacons so you don't have to have alts everywhere but what more do you need Rolling Eyes

Sepheir Sepheron
Caldari
1st Grave
Posted - 2011.01.18 20:53:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Mishkaii
It would make space big again, make logistics meaningful, and hot drops of thousands of ships no longer trivial. What is there not to like again?

Very supported.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.18 21:24:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Cellistara
It would kill faction warfare completely.
Yes because there are so many jump bridges littered throughout low sec.

lwxsky oli
Minmatar
FACTS on EVE
Posted - 2011.01.18 21:27:00 - [210]
 

I believe the goal of a game designer is to make more players happy when playing the game.

No doubt the "hard core pvp elites" will get more fun if it is removed while someone else(regular players not that hard core??) will lose some fun because life is becoming harder.

The question is, which side has more players??

If someone really love doing smaller scale pvp and hate blobs, there're already plenty of opportunity in game. Why are you still staying or care about staying in 0.0.

Personally, I love blob fights. EVE is the only game can get 2000+ players staying at same place and shooting at each other. So why trying so hard to take big fleet fights away??

It's better to make 1000 players feel happy after shooting down one titan than 30 "elite" supercap pilots insta pop three titans.



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